Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?

Started Nov 23, 2013 | Discussions
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mgatov Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?

In the past I used an M6 with 3 Leica lenses.  Now... I'm relegated to the lesser ranks of using a Leica-designed lens on a Panasonic.  I like this forum because it is about the images.  Choi, Louis, Radcliff (when he was here), Irakley, and all the other contributors make this place special.  Perhaps we could change the name to "The forum with images that look good enough to have been taken with a Leica."

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meagre offerings
meagre offerings Senior Member • Posts: 4,871
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?

Calvin Palmer wrote:

Jim,

In this forum photographs are the most important element unlike many of the others where they are secondary to discussions of the latest iteration of particular camera models.

That sums it up.

I don't own a Leica camera, and own only one Leitz lens, but it is worth coming here to see the pictures. The same applies to the Leica forum on Getdpi.

You also have to remember that some people, such as myself, are former Leica owners who consider many of the forum members as friends and so like to stay in touch and what better way than to post a few photographs taken with whatever camera we happen to be shooting with these days, in my case a Ricoh GR.

I suppose it comes down to whether your interest is photography or the cameras that produce the photographs. It is, after all, Digital Photography Review rather than Digital Camera Review and the Leica Forum simply upholds that distinction.

How about "Anyone who owns a book of Cartier-Bresson photographs can post here" ?

your a genius my friend, that's a much better idea than changing the forum name.

best

pc
--
http://www.pbase.com/meagre_offerings/street_photography

also a proud member of the `lesser leica owners club`.

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Andrewteee Senior Member • Posts: 2,708
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?

I wonder the same thing. While my first reaction to this forum is that, oh my, they discuss photographs far more than the equipment, they also throw in a broad mix of camera brands (just read a post about the Nikon D300 with a Nikon lens on this forum). Nothing wrong with either, they are both vastly preferable to endless, tireless camera debates, but indeed, why call it the "Leica" forum? Why not call it a forum under the photography section, something like "Photographs Taken By Current and Former Leica Photographers"?

There is indeed lots of discussion and debate about Leica camera, just not here; that goes on on other sites.

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Pap38
Pap38 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,776
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?

Then I qualify twice.

Pap

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Godfrey Forum Pro • Posts: 29,082
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?

Jim Evidon wrote:

On a forum called Leica Talk, why are there so many posting of images taken by other cameras? Other LTM or M mount cameras with M mount or LTM mount lenses, I can see. But images posted taken with various Japanese DSLR's and point and shoot cameras etc.? They may be lovely images worthy of posting and comment, but why post them on a Leica forum? As things stand, this is hardly a forum for Leica. Maybe I'll post Leica or possibly Fuji images on Nikon or Canon forums. On second thought, maybe I won't. I think I'll move on to a more serious camera forum.
Jim

Sigh. Another newbie who wants the forum to comply with his expectations rather than enjoying the forum for what it is.

Carry on.

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Edward48
Edward48 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,024
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?
2

Why does this only ever seem to matter to people who normally never post here?

Mike

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Helge Aarvik Regular Member • Posts: 118
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?

Hey, everyone!

I like this forum because of the focus on the pictures. I do have special interest in pictures posted with Leica cameras, but I don't mind pictures from other cameras as well. The picture matters more than the tool used to create it.

I hope in the future that this forum keeps an open mind and spirit

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l_objectif
l_objectif Forum Pro • Posts: 20,035
Helge
1

Helge Aarvik wrote:

Hey, everyone!

I hope in the future that this forum keeps an open mind and spirit

Dear Helge, this "forum" has always kept an open mind, spirit, civility, inspiration and friendship that we always believe would help us to improve our photography!... But a very few jumping in from other forums don't!

We see this kind of comments from people who are not familiar with this forum from time to time and it is really not very important!... The "spirit" of Leica is much more important for us than just a tool with a little red dot!

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Helge Aarvik Regular Member • Posts: 118
Re: Helge

Hey,

yes that is good. To clarify what I wrote:

I hope in the future that forum continues to keep an open mind and spirit!

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marcio_napoli Senior Member • Posts: 1,062
Not really a Leica forum
3

Allow me to offer a different opinion (one that may not be well received at all).

I understand the spirit in this particular forum: it's gentle, open minded, and it's all about inspiration and friendship.

Photography is shared and encouraged, and that's very nice.

But one side effect, is that these things help very, very little to bring more photographers into the Leica world.

I mean, we're here at DP review, the World's largest gear oriented site, and if there's one possible place where people would go for Leica info (specially hands on experience), is exactly this forum.

But truth be told: info about gear is scarce here.

Too many threads about shots, and very few threads about gear, makes this forum pointless as a Leica "gear" forum.

For example:

I also shoot with Phase One and digital back. And there're few places on the internet where I can go to seek information.

One of these rare places is the Luminous Landscapes DMF forum, and there's tremendous amount of info being shared about digital backs there.

One folk over there had all the trouble to upload dozens of RAW files from a P45+, and even dedicated one section to compared the P45 against Sony A99.

One can freely download these RAWs, and make their own mind if a digi back is suited for his/her needs.

You can learn about all kinds of tech stuff (moire, DR, comparisons of MF sensors) and see images that support those claims.

Threads like that are common over there.

I mean, that forum works as a DMF ambassador.

As nice as this Leica forum is, it does very little to help Leica as a brand, and to help other fellow shooters adventure in the Leica world.

Not trying to stir the pot... just my honest 2 cents.

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Marcio Napoli

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MichaelToyeImages
MichaelToyeImages Contributing Member • Posts: 663
ask a question about gear then

I'm almost certain you'll get a helpful response.

Michael

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Samaistuin
Samaistuin Contributing Member • Posts: 650
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?
2

I agree with the OP and nobody has actually answered his point.
All his thread got was "sigh", "bye", "but we discuss about pictures" and "good ambience".

marcio_napoli Senior Member • Posts: 1,062
Re: ask a question about gear then
1

Sure, Michael, I'm certain of that too.

But many folks won't go through the trouble of asking...

The info must be right there in the front page.

Another case I remember:

I'm a huge fan of CCD sensors, and always found the images produced by the M8 and M9 simply gorgeous.

I already had a strong bias, but never actually thought of buying the M9 (mostly because I can't afford hehe).

Sometime ago, I've found a link (don't ask me where, I really don't remember) with a bunch of beautiful M9 DNGs to download.

These samples we're delightful. Most were at the golden hour, wich highlights the punchy M9 colours and CCD rendering.

Most were also shot wide open, with stuning bokeh from the Leica glass.

After playing with these DNGs, it took me 2 months to get rid of the idea of buying a M9. I just got cured because I can't afford it hehe

I don't remember which site that was, but they almost made me a Leica shooter.

That's the kind of "service" I expect the Leica forum to perform.

Most of the time, sharing low res images won't do it.  Possible converts need to play with RAW files in order to jump in.

I mean, there're tons of D800, 5Ds samples to download everywhere...  but very few places you can actually get to know how M9 and M240 RAW files really perform.

That's when gear talk becomes useful and a healthy thing.

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Marcio Napoli

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MichaelToyeImages
MichaelToyeImages Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: ask a question about gear then
1

All valid points, but this forum isn't as well subscribed as the other forums. The Leica range isn't large or refreshed nearly so frequently as the major manufacturers.

There's also aren't too many teaching points with Leica being so manually oriented, so talk would move quickly to technique.

So, when the gear talk dies down, do we sit in front of a near stagnant forum?

No, we talk about our interest in photography and wait patiently for the next gear question

Michael

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jameas Forum Member • Posts: 97
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?

In context, the OP has got a point. I too found the forum a different place to what I expected - and (if you forgive me) at first look bit of a boys self appreciation club....

However (and this is where I hope I can redeem myself regarding the self appreciation comment) I find I come back here frequently to look at the images posted - particularly from some regular posters - rather than "gear talk". Meagre Offerings probably hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that Leica release's are as rare as hens teeth and I think others have adequately pointed out the, perhaps, different ethos of Leica photographers (either through ownership, aspiration or presentation style).
It is here (and again in redemption - I'm working hard on this!) that posters/users/members do engage in a different way to most other forums. Perhaps this is simply the natural evolvement of a Leica community? And actually it is quite nice and civilized.

I'm happy (and I admit I am not a regular poster here) to leave as is.

I would suggest a new Leica Technical Forum but why invent something that already exists? There are alternative forums that provide this perfectly adequately elsewhere.
Hope I have not offended anyone,

James

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jeff hladun
jeff hladun Senior Member • Posts: 2,694
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?
2

Samaistuin wrote:

I agree with the OP and nobody has actually answered his point.
All his thread got was "sigh", "bye", "but we discuss about pictures" and "good ambience".

I get the feeling Jim is unaware that there are many images posted here made with non-Leica camera bodies with Leica-built or Leica-designed lenses. The Panasonics in particular spring to mind. In this Forum, these have always been considered inclusive - please check the charter. Further, specially mounted Leica lenses on bodies such as Canon and Nikon are welcome for discussion. I expect very soon we'll see many images on the forum taken with Leica lenses using the Sony A7/r bodies.

The remainder of posts of images using non-Leica equipment are actually few and far between. I'm not a big fan of the practise - plenty of Forum members will acknowledge that - as I always thought some day the Forum would be over-run with non-Leica pictures. (A good compromise would be a general, on-going thread for non-Leica images...) At present this is not an issue; the Leica Forum has yet to turn into a gateway of non-Leica photographs.

Generally speaking, those 'foreign' images have good reason to be posted here; more often than not, they are presented by long-time members of the forum who, quite frankly, through their attention to the works of others, their constructive comments, and critical insight, simply add to the Forum culture. As far as I'm concerned, it's a trust-through-intimacy that gives them the right.

More so, I'll go even further and suggest that Leica users that simply drop in to show-off their latest image, or to announce their latest rewards without taking the time to comment on the threads of others, are usually given short-shrift by the regular contributors here. In a manner, it works both ways.

There is a fluid give and take, and an interesting dynamic which makes this forum unique. I'd like to think it's the unstated belief that the foundation of our efforts and contributions lies in the simple, simple desire to make better photographs. Shouldn't that be the aspiration of all photography forums?

bosjohn Veteran Member • Posts: 4,890
Re: Not really a Leica forum

one only has to ask and there are any number of Leica users and experts and collectors etc. here that can answer their questions and stay tuned we do have equipment threads just scroll down to the them they are there sandwiched between a post of images of Bangkok and London and Paris etc.

we do discuss gear but we also do post lots of pics.  If there is any change maybe a button to identify posts as images but thats pretty easy to figure out anyway. if the header says M9 compared to   an Iphone its probably gear. If the header says dogs in a manger its probably not. As I mentioned in a previous post Leica does not really offer anywhere the new products to discuss as the major manufactures so threads about the minutia of your m9 or your URleica. can grow tedious and repetitious quickly. We have an occasional heated discussion but the heat level is not really very high  as there is an amazing amount of respect for one an other here.

I have been in other Leica forums and they are mostly gear but if you look closely you will see their average posts per day are almost always about a tenth or less of what you see here.If you remove all the images you will have a fairly typical Leica forum with three or four or so posts a day. some are busier but in my experience most are not. Even the range finder forum was interesting but agonizingly slow with posters.

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Daedalus2000
Daedalus2000 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,604
Re: ask a question about gear then
1

Hi Marcio,

I hope you are well by the way and I hope you posted any of your gorgeous images here, Leica or not.

I think Michael said it everything really, but I just want to add that we do not work for Leica, and even dpreview's job is not to promote any particular camera maker. So whatever happens in a forum is driven by the people who post there so things happen naturally. In some forums you have more gear posts, in some other ones (like here) you have a mixture. This is the freedom of the social interaction that is not driven by companies...

Best, D

Daedalus2000
Daedalus2000 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,604
Re: Why is this called "Leica Talk" ?
1

Samaistuin wrote:

I agree with the OP and nobody has actually answered his point.
All his thread got was "sigh", "bye", "but we discuss about pictures" and "good ambience".

Sorry but your post makes no sense. His point is to describe something that is real. We all acknowledged that it is happening and myself and others told him that if he checks he will see it is limited. We also explained why this has happened historically. What else is there to say?

Do you really know what answer you are looking for? What exactly is the question?

Brief Encounter Regular Member • Posts: 259
A General Observation

Forums in general only work well because of the commitment and goodwill of the people posting on them. If people are not motivated to spend the time and the effort to post, read and/or comment then there would be nothing.

For this forum it just so happens that the majority of people currently active are motivated by pictures rather than gear although the contribution of the gear to the the photos is understood and appreciated.

There is nothing at all to prevent other people from joining the forum and posting about whatever they think is appropriate and interesting and if enough people do this and enjoy it then we would have effectively two (or more) forums working alongside each other under one heading. I can see this being in general a good thing, well assuming that everything remains harmonious (and this is a big assumption based on other forums!).

In fact there is already quite a lot of that, for example Rodrigue's posts with his excellent photos taken with the X Vario and his commentary on how the camera played a significant part in taking those photos.

So really then the question is not why is the forum the way it is (simple answer: because the majority of posters like it that way) but rather why isn't it a gear related forum and where are all the people who have the motivation to spend the time and effort to discuss the more technical aspects of Leica photography?

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