RX10: Lens wobble?

Started Nov 15, 2013 | Discussions
John C.H. Regular Member • Posts: 118
RX10: Lens wobble?
3

Hi Guys,

I got my hands on a RX10 for the first time today in a Sony showroom here in Hong Kong. I really liked the feel of it in my hands and it did not feel as heavy as I expected.

However, when I racked the lens out to full extension and put my left hand under it to support it at eye level, I felt the whole lens assembly move. When I examined it I found the the whole lens assembly wobbled. I held the body firmly on the table with the lens protruding over the edge and watched the LCD screen as I touched the lens assembly lightly. As the it wobbled the picture jumped around on the screen.

This was a demo model and it may have suffered a lot of abuse, but I am a little concerned. I have known other cameras where the lens rattled in the body but this always stopped on power up. This RX10 lens wobbled and was loose at full extension with power on.

So, RX10 owners, does the lens assembly wobble at full extension on your RX10?

Thanks in advance,

John

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Greg Gebhardt
Greg Gebhardt Forum Pro • Posts: 25,563
Likely normal

Any lens like this is going to have some wobble/play.  There is only a "felt" type material that seals one barrel to another.  This is why we can also expect some dust and debris to get to the sensor over time.

It is what you would expect in a camera even though I am sure many would expect better.  200mm does not come without compromise.

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Greg
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joexu Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

It look solid in the videos but would like to hear more from people who handled it

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OP John C.H. Regular Member • Posts: 118
Re: Likely normal

Greg Gebhardt wrote:

Any lens like this is going to have some wobble/play. There is only a "felt" type material that seals one barrel to another. This is why we can also expect some dust and debris to get to the sensor over time.

It is what you would expect in a camera even though I am sure many would expect better. 200mm does not come without compromise.

Hi Greg,

Thanks for your comments. The Sony guy I asked about it tried to 'not understand' at first, but I had talked to him in English a few weeks ago and I knew his English was excellent so I pushed him. He said there was a lot of lens outside the body and only a little left inside to keep it stable, so it was to be expected. With only felt I would agree with him!

My interest is video and it seems more likely to be a problem there. I feel for US$1300 there should be something more than felt stabilizing the lens. Perhaps, at 70, I am expecting too much for the money, but I love the silky feel of my old Rollei and Bolex cameras!

John

Greg Gebhardt
Greg Gebhardt Forum Pro • Posts: 25,563
John

John C.H. wrote:

Greg Gebhardt wrote:

Any lens like this is going to have some wobble/play. There is only a "felt" type material that seals one barrel to another. This is why we can also expect some dust and debris to get to the sensor over time.

It is what you would expect in a camera even though I am sure many would expect better. 200mm does not come without compromise.

Hi Greg,

Thanks for your comments. The Sony guy I asked about it tried to 'not understand' at first, but I had talked to him in English a few weeks ago and I knew his English was excellent so I pushed him. He said there was a lot of lens outside the body and only a little left inside to keep it stable, so it was to be expected. With only felt I would agree with him!

My interest is video and it seems more likely to be a problem there. I feel for US$1300 there should be something more than felt stabilizing the lens. Perhaps, at 70, I am expecting too much for the money, but I love the silky feel of my old Rollei and Bolex cameras!

John

Hi John

the old Rollie did not do 24-200mm.

As long as you keep you hands off the lens when it is extended, it should not be a problem. The OP said they noticed when they were holding onto the front of the lens. I understand when it is extended to 200mm you want to hold onto the lens but I would suggest your supporting hand be under the camera and maybe a finger or two holding up the lens at it's base but not at the very end of the lens.

The RX10 is not alone and many of today's cameras with extendable lenses will do the same.  I know we all expect that a camera like this not exhibit this problem but for $1300 we are still looking at a less than perfect piece of hardware.

I still think it will be a great camera. Hope mine arrives soon. Extra battery in hand and Charger on the way.

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Greg
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Mike Boreham Senior Member • Posts: 1,462
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

John C.H. wrote:

Hi Guys,

I got my hands on a RX10 for the first time today in a Sony showroom here in Hong Kong. I really liked the feel of it in my hands and it did not feel as heavy as I expected.

However, when I racked the lens out to full extension and put my left hand under it to support it at eye level, I felt the whole lens assembly move. When I examined it I found the the whole lens assembly wobbled. I held the body firmly on the table with the lens protruding over the edge and watched the LCD screen as I touched the lens assembly lightly. As the it wobbled the picture jumped around on the screen.

This was a demo model and it may have suffered a lot of abuse, but I am a little concerned. I have known other cameras where the lens rattled in the body but this always stopped on power up. This RX10 lens wobbled and was loose at full extension with power on.

So, RX10 owners, does the lens assembly wobble at full extension on your RX10?

Thanks in advance,

John

My RX10 (received yesterday from Sony UK) does not do this. Yes as someone says there is a small amount of movement possible with the lens fully extended, but less than I have generally experienced and which causes me no concern having owned countless lenses. If I hold the body firmly and watch the LCD screen while moving the end of the lens, the movement visible on the LCD is very slight, and certainly no jumping around.

I have no concerns on this at this stage.

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forpetessake
forpetessake Veteran Member • Posts: 4,999
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?
3

John C.H. wrote:

Hi Guys,

I got my hands on a RX10 for the first time today in a Sony showroom here in Hong Kong. I really liked the feel of it in my hands and it did not feel as heavy as I expected.

However, when I racked the lens out to full extension and put my left hand under it to support it at eye level, I felt the whole lens assembly move. When I examined it I found the the whole lens assembly wobbled. I held the body firmly on the table with the lens protruding over the edge and watched the LCD screen as I touched the lens assembly lightly. As the it wobbled the picture jumped around on the screen.

This was a demo model and it may have suffered a lot of abuse, but I am a little concerned. I have known other cameras where the lens rattled in the body but this always stopped on power up. This RX10 lens wobbled and was loose at full extension with power on.

So, RX10 owners, does the lens assembly wobble at full extension on your RX10?

Thanks in advance,

John

Not a good sign. Usually only cheap plastic lenses show that. I have 20-30 old Nikon zooms and they show no wobbling after all those years. I recently handled long 18-135(140) zooms from Canon/Nikon/Sony, there was absolutely no wobbling. That wobbling can lead to decentering, focus errors, and image blurring due to lens shake.

wazu
wazu Senior Member • Posts: 1,408
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?
4

This is definately an issue, however minor it may seem to some. Some called the uneven aperture blades on the RX-1 minor or the cracked bezel on the EM-5, or the spots on the D600, etc etc.

But we who bought into these premium products consider this poor design and not monday examples. Thanks to forums like this one and FM, etc. people now have a huge beta test community that can relay actual problems instead of rosy reviews. I pre-ordered my 5D mkII, RX-1 and EM-5 but will never ever pre-order another camera. All these cameras came with problems. the 5D3 was D.O.A., the EM-5 had a cracked bezel and my RX-1 aperture blades are wacky.

I waited a few months before ordering my latest RX-100M2 and as a bonus got a discount from original price as well as the Sony leather case thrown in. As we here in Europe don't have such generous return policies as North America a decision to order is pretty much final. You have basically 14 days for an internet order and no days unless store policy dictated otherwise for an in shop purchase. Plus most stores will either deduct shipping costs and charge a restocking fee as well as demand the item is intact with no sign of usage.

Consumer policy assumes if you can see the box or get lucky enough to handle a demo in the store then you cannot be expected to make an uneducated decision as one could with a tiny picture and brief description supplied by most web sites.

So thank you very much for posting your observations anf hopefully more who discover this and other artifacts will use crowd power to disclose the shortcomings of slippery manufacturers who peddle defectively designed products at premium prices and rely on DPR and other so called review sites to hype the specs and stifle the flaws.

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YiannisPP Senior Member • Posts: 1,641
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

wazu wrote:

This is definately an issue, however minor it may seem to some. Some called the uneven aperture blades on the RX-1 minor or the cracked bezel on the EM-5, or the spots on the D600, etc etc.

But we who bought into these premium products consider this poor design and not monday examples. Thanks to forums like this one and FM, etc. people now have a huge beta test community that can relay actual problems instead of rosy reviews. I pre-ordered my 5D mkII, RX-1 and EM-5 but will never ever pre-order another camera. All these cameras came with problems. the 5D3 was D.O.A., the EM-5 had a cracked bezel and my RX-1 aperture blades are wacky.

I waited a few months before ordering my latest RX-100M2 and as a bonus got a discount from original price as well as the Sony leather case thrown in. As we here in Europe don't have such generous return policies as North America a decision to order is pretty much final. You have basically 14 days for an internet order and no days unless store policy dictated otherwise for an in shop purchase. Plus most stores will either deduct shipping costs and charge a restocking fee as well as demand the item is intact with no sign of usage.

Consumer policy assumes if you can see the box or get lucky enough to handle a demo in the store then you cannot be expected to make an uneducated decision as one could with a tiny picture and brief description supplied by most web sites.

So thank you very much for posting your observations anf hopefully more who discover this and other artifacts will use crowd power to disclose the shortcomings of slippery manufacturers who peddle defectively designed products at premium prices and rely on DPR and other so called review sites to hype the specs and stifle the flaws.

While in general I agree with what you're saying, I think we need some more opinions to qualify this as an issue. So a demo camera (which had probably been handled by hundreds of over-enthusastic clients) showed some wobble that the OP found excessive. Mike above thinks different. Let's just wait and see what more people say about that.

I'm sure this is not an issue on a new camera, I hope we can agree that Sony would not sell a camera that would underperform at birth. We are conjecturing that with time it will get loose enough to cause noticeable problems. How can we be so sure about that? My RX100 wobbles more than that (I'm sure) and I never thought it was an issue and neither have I seen its performance degrade with use.

And yes this is a "premium" product compared to a normal superzoom, but it still an't no 3K premium product.

OP John C.H. Regular Member • Posts: 118
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

Hi Guys,

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I certainly hope there is no problem, I am still very interested in this camera. When I get time next week I will visit one of the other Sony showrooms here and see how the demo models are surviving. I am certainly not anti Sony, on the contrary, we have many Sony products in the house, TV, Blu-Ray player, p/s cameras, etc.. In fact, my partner has a RX100 and I have been absolutely stunned by its performance, and I am hoping for the same kind of performance or better from the RX10.

I was not looking for a problem, I simply held the body with my right hand, supported the lens assembly with my left, as I have done with long lenses for more years than I care to remember, and I felt movement between the two. I didn't move the end of the lens until I was trying to find the cause. Overall, I was very impressed with the build quality and asked owners' opinions, hoping for reassurance.

So please, keep the comments coming and reassure me!

Thanks,

John

Jerry Stevens Senior Member • Posts: 2,556
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

Hey John. I have held or had many long-zoom bridge cams. The mechanical device that makes them work (sleeved barrels) is simply going to do this. I never have not seen this effect in this type design, worse on some than others. I honestly do not think this is an "issue." I personally would not judge this to be a "problem" and would love working with the cam.

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Jerry (Gerald L. Stevens)

elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,741
RX10, RX100, R1, S85 ..... normal lens movement?

It is a question of prior experiences, degree of movement, and related questions.

Anyone who owns an RX100 and cleans the lens with a lens cloth, (lens must be fully extended to open the shutter while cleaning) can feel some movement.

I have to suppose a longer extension of the RX10 to get 24-200 range will have a bit more movement.

Adding filter adapters, filters, macro lenses, wide angle lenses, all add weight that will exert a downward force, (or sideways when vertical) to the extended lens barrel.

Any small p&s I own/have owned has a bit of wobble when cleaning the lens.

My R1, a rock, with a manual zoom lens barrel has a speck of movement, less than rx100.

1. How much movement is normal, and how much a sign of wear, abuse, or trouble, who can say? I certainly believe sales people are not a source for answers, they handle one demo model, not many.

2. how does the lens normally get/stay parallel to the sensor? After years, still perfect?

3. with enough adapter/filter weight, the lens will be 'down' a speck, not parallel to sensor?

4. RX10 is weatherproof, I would think it is more than felt, anyone know?

5. RX1 owners, how much movement when cleaning lens?

As an historical note, my S85 has provisions for filters and conversion lenses, Sony's wide converter lens weighed a ton. It solved the weight/non-parallel issue by having threads on the body and an extension tube to receive filters/lenses, transferring all the weight to the rigid body, no weight on the lens at all. I just checked, it is smaller but has more wobble than the rx100, I think original wobble rather than wear wobble, who can know for sure?

I still get sharp pics from all 3 models, but I am no expert to peep and find minor inconsistencies if the lens is non-parallel with weight directly on it.

btw, S85 nearly 12 years old; R1 8 years old, both: no spots on sensor; rx100 got something on the sensor within 11 months. Based on no problem with S85 and R1, (and other p&s) that is why I suspect the problem with early rx100's was something inside the camera that moved onto the sensor or back of the lens, not dust that got 'in'. We man never know if Sony continues it's silence about it.

The reason I mention it, is, for the RX10, (and later rx100/m2's) there may not be a dust gets in the barrel issue.

I have both weight carrying solutions: my home made extension tube that transfers all the weight to the rx100 front ring (even that has some slight movement); and my magfilter adapter which puts all weight as a downward force on the extended lens. Both can take my old S85 conversion lenses. I don't think they are precise enough for proper comparisons: however, after more replies, I can try some test shots looking for _____? with my rx100.

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Elliott

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DimitriDV Regular Member • Posts: 362
Re: RX10, RX100, R1, S85 ..... normal lens movement?

Quite worrying to me tbh, as I was thinking of using a tele extender lens at the 200mm end at times (olympus tcon-14b), and that's also pretty heavy (0,5 Kg?)... not to mention the other issues that might occur  by itself with time (already mentioned, decentering, focusing, etc..).

Interested in hearing about more reports about it...

bpjod Contributing Member • Posts: 849
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

Hi Guys,

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I certainly hope there is no problem, I am still very interested in this camera. When I get time next week I will visit one of the other Sony showrooms here and see how the demo models are surviving. I am certainly not anti Sony, on the contrary, we have many Sony products in the house, TV, Blu-Ray player, p/s cameras, etc.. In fact, my partner has a RX100 and I have been absolutely stunned by its performance, and I am hoping for the same kind of performance or better from the RX10.

I was not looking for a problem, I simply held the body with my right hand, supported the lens assembly with my left, as I have done with long lenses for more years than I care to remember, and I felt movement between the two. I didn't move the end of the lens until I was trying to find the cause. Overall, I was very impressed with the build quality and asked owners' opinions, hoping for reassurance.

So please, keep the comments coming and reassure me!

Thanks,

John

Thanks for mentioning this John. I'm curious--when the lens is at the telephoto end, did you feel compelled to support it by the part of the barrel that extended because of old habits, or because the balance of the camera shifted so far forwards you moved the left hand forwards to counteract the weight shift?
I ask because on telephoto lenses I tend to support them further out for better weight balance but with zoom lenses that extend I keep my hand on the non-extending part; partly because the controls are there, partly because I've never thought the extending bit would be strong enough to hold the camera by. However if there was a major weight shift forward, I'm not sure if I would reflexively move my hand forward. Just wondering how it was for you.

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elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,741
Re: RX10, RX100, R1, S85 ..... normal lens movement?

DimitriDV wrote:

Quite worrying to me tbh, as I was thinking of using a tele extender lens at the 200mm end at times (olympus tcon-14b), and that's also pretty heavy (0,5 Kg?)... not to mention the other issues that might occur by itself with time (already mentioned, decentering, focusing, etc..).

Interested in hearing about more reports about it...

Perhaps I should go into production 

S85, OEM tube on the left; RX100 shop vac tube on the right, both water and dust proof.

MagFilter setup, weight on extended barrel, shown on camera, not dust or water proof.

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Elliott

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OP John C.H. Regular Member • Posts: 118
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

bpjod wrote:

Hi Guys,

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I certainly hope there is no problem, I am still very interested in this camera. When I get time next week I will visit one of the other Sony showrooms here and see how the demo models are surviving. I am certainly not anti Sony, on the contrary, we have many Sony products in the house, TV, Blu-Ray player, p/s cameras, etc.. In fact, my partner has a RX100 and I have been absolutely stunned by its performance, and I am hoping for the same kind of performance or better from the RX10.

I was not looking for a problem, I simply held the body with my right hand, supported the lens assembly with my left, as I have done with long lenses for more years than I care to remember, and I felt movement between the two. I didn't move the end of the lens until I was trying to find the cause. Overall, I was very impressed with the build quality and asked owners' opinions, hoping for reassurance.

So please, keep the comments coming and reassure me!

Thanks,

John

Thanks for mentioning this John. I'm curious--when the lens is at the telephoto end, did you feel compelled to support it by the part of the barrel that extended because of old habits, or because the balance of the camera shifted so far forwards you moved the left hand forwards to counteract the weight shift?
I ask because on telephoto lenses I tend to support them further out for better weight balance but with zoom lenses that extend I keep my hand on the non-extending part; partly because the controls are there, partly because I've never thought the extending bit would be strong enough to hold the camera by. However if there was a major weight shift forward, I'm not sure if I would reflexively move my hand forward. Just wondering how it was for you.

It was old habit rather than a feeling of weight shift, as I remember it. I normally have the rear of the lens in my palm and extend my fingers forward under the front. In fact, apart from adding a converter or something heavy, I don't think you would normally need to put your hand out that far under the lens assembly. There is a quite a long section of the lens which is, in fact, part of the body and I'm sure I could get used to holding this in my left hand. As I wear glasses I normally prefer holding the camera at waist level. Having shot a lot of medium format, mostly static subjects, I, also, find viewing an isolated image helps with composition.

My concern was not only that I would wiggle the lens under normal shooting conditions, but that how would the lens wear after prolonged use. A demo model may be abused, but it may also show accelerated wear. What happens in a week in the showroom may happen in a year of normal use. I find it incredible that a lens assembly may only be held in place and guide by a piece of felt. Surely alignment is critical? I'm not a complete luddite, I accept that plastic may be even better than metal in some uses, but felt?

I wonder if the 'fly-by-wire' control of the zoom means it must movable using a relatively low power motor to conserve the battery, and thus quite loose. Manual focus lenses seem to feel better than AF lenses used manually.

Thanks to those of you who have taken the trouble to fill me in on what to expect of modern camera build. Over the last few years I have only used a 3 CCD Sony DV camcorder, the HC1000, and a Sony TX1, which having a folded lens has no wobble problems! My last zoom lenses were Nikon used on my F2AS, some years ago!

John

joexu Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: RX10, RX100, R1, S85 ..... normal lens movement?

DimitriDV wrote:

Quite worrying to me tbh, as I was thinking of using a tele extender lens at the 200mm end at times (olympus tcon-14b), and that's also pretty heavy (0,5 Kg?)... not to mention the other issues that might occur by itself with time (already mentioned, decentering, focusing, etc..).

Interested in hearing about more reports about it...

Yes, Im planning to try out the same combination but slight lens wobble on the long end is unavoidable for all super-zooms even my DSLR extended zoom lens will wobble, the tcon is quiet heavy I would say the wcon would be better.

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Jerry Stevens Senior Member • Posts: 2,556
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

If you are interested in the RX10, I really think you will be OK. Like Mike suggested, perhaps just a matter of habituating yourself to holding back toward the cam body than the extended lens barrel.

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Jerry (Gerald L. Stevens)

bpjod Contributing Member • Posts: 849
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

John C.H. wrote:

It was old habit rather than a feeling of weight shift, as I remember it. I normally have the rear of the lens in my palm and extend my fingers forward under the front. In fact, apart from adding a converter or something heavy, I don't think you would normally need to put your hand out that far under the lens assembly. There is a quite a long section of the lens which is, in fact, part of the body and I'm sure I could get used to holding this in my left hand.

Thanks for the thorough answer John. Very helpful.

As I wear glasses I normally prefer holding the camera at waist level. Having shot a lot of medium format, mostly static subjects, I, also, find viewing an isolated image helps with composition.

How was the EVF with your glasses? Could you take in the whole viewfinder at a glance or did you have to ram your glasses in as tight as you could, then move the viewfinder around to see everything?

After 25 years of SLR use I'm most comfortable with an OVF but am willing to try an EVF with the RX10. As for composition on a rear screen I've been trying to learn with my RX100, which is considerably better than any other rear screen I've ever used, but still vastly prefer a viewfinder. The problem is compounded these days as I need to view the screen through the reading portion of my progressives or take them off to use a rear screen, neither of which is as convenient as a viewfinder.

Thanks to those of you who have taken the trouble to fill me in on what to expect of modern camera build.

Hey, not all modern photo equipment is cheaply made. If you want to enjoy some modern, beautifully made lenses, play with any of the Pentax DA Limited lenses or the D-FA 100/2.8 macro which is made to the same standard. They are incredibly well built and (I'm afraid to admit this) but even a pleasure to hold, play with the focussing ring and lens hood and admire their beauty. I guess Voigtlander and Leica lenses are probably like that too, but I've never had the opportunity to play with one of those.

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OP John C.H. Regular Member • Posts: 118
Re: RX10: Lens wobble?

bpjod wrote:

John C.H. wrote:

It was old habit rather than a feeling of weight shift, as I remember it. I normally have the rear of the lens in my palm and extend my fingers forward under the front. In fact, apart from adding a converter or something heavy, I don't think you would normally need to put your hand out that far under the lens assembly. There is a quite a long section of the lens which is, in fact, part of the body and I'm sure I could get used to holding this in my left hand.

Thanks for the thorough answer John. Very helpful.

You are welcome.

As I wear glasses I normally prefer holding the camera at waist level. Having shot a lot of medium format, mostly static subjects, I, also, find viewing an isolated image helps with composition.

How was the EVF with your glasses? Could you take in the whole viewfinder at a glance or did you have to ram your glasses in as tight as you could, then move the viewfinder around to see everything?

I didn't spend a lot of time with the EVF, but it seems like a beautiful viewfinder, vastly superior to the one on a PJ660 camcorder which I also looked at. It's more like the NEX6 EVF, but I didn't compare them side by side. I, also, wear progressive lenses and found by wiggling my eyeball around I could see everything. They are new glasses so I didn't ram them up tight! I was surprised to find that if I took my glasses off and cranked the dioptre adjustment to end of the run I could see all the viewfinder quite clearly. Not perfectly as I also suffer from astigmatism which was obviously not corrected, but certainly very well. The only problem is I would then have to hang my glasses round my neck on a chain like my old granny!

After 25 years of SLR use I'm most comfortable with an OVF but am willing to try an EVF with the RX10. As for composition on a rear screen I've been trying to learn with my RX100, which is considerably better than any other rear screen I've ever used, but still vastly prefer a viewfinder. The problem is compounded these days as I need to view the screen through the reading portion of my progressives or take them off to use a rear screen, neither of which is as convenient as a viewfinder.

The only reason I didn't buy a RX100 when it came out was that it didn't have a waist level viewfinder, the MkII now does, of course, so I'm reconsidering it. Spending most of my photographic life without image stabilisation, holding the camera firmly against my stomach or forehead and holding my breath was the only way to get a sharp image without a very high shutter speed. I agree with a poster I saw on another forum who said he didn't like holding his camera 'like a baby with a dirty diaper'! I haven't used an OVF for many years, but it seems to me that they are not as good as when lenses had to be focused manually. AF makes them mostly just viewfinders. I believe most are penta-mirrors  rather than penta-prisms. Now I shoot mostly video, so OVFs are out.

Thanks to those of you who have taken the trouble to fill me in on what to expect of modern camera build.

Hey, not all modern photo equipment is cheaply made. If you want to enjoy some modern, beautifully made lenses, play with any of the Pentax DA Limited lenses or the D-FA 100/2.8 macro which is made to the same standard. They are incredibly well built and (I'm afraid to admit this) but even a pleasure to hold, play with the focussing ring and lens hood and admire their beauty. I guess Voigtlander and Leica lenses are probably like that too, but I've never had the opportunity to play with one of those.

It's OK, you don't have to be ashamed to admit you admire quality! In our world of built-in obsolescence there is too little of it, in my opinion. I suspect Pentax is a very under rated system these days. Many years ago (70's?) they ran an advertising campaign with the slogan 'Just hold a Pentax!' I did, and bought one! It was an SL, a Spotmatic without the built-in meter. It felt just right, so much better than the Nikon F and FTN, and the lenses were excellent. Some years later I used a Pentax 67 medium format and lugged that and 3 lenses around! It was huge and heavy but it is my all time favourite still camera and produced some of my best photos. I tried a Hasselblad system and even though I loved its superb engineering quality, I just didn't enjoy using it. I think you have to enjoy using a camera to get the best results. This is why reviews can tell you all the technical data, but only handling a camera can tell you if you will take your best photos. I must admit, even though I raised this question about lens wobble, I really liked the feel of the RX10, and I think I would enjoy using it.

I have handled second-hand Leica M's and lenses and, as you say, they are beautiful, even when many years old. They are in a different class, price wise, too! But with glasses I could never get along with the viewfinder. I haven't handled any Voigtlander lenses. I have a couple of Voigtlander cameras that date back to when they were a German company before Cosina bought the trade name, and they are really good quality.

Sorry to have rambled on! I hope to visit one of the other Sony showrooms on Tuesday and will take another look at the RX10's lens, viewfinder, etc.. If you have anything else you would like me to check for you, just let me know.

John

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