...put your money where your mouth is

Started Nov 11, 2013 | Discussions
JimPearce
JimPearce Veteran Member • Posts: 9,188
Well...

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to include the RAW buffer in the D7100 on that list. But as I mentioned above I'm not generally fond of the "Nikon should have..." posts.

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Jim

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(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 650
Astounding!

JimPearce wrote:

The ignorance on this board continues to astound me.

Seriously, Jim, what good comes of saying stuff like that?

Blackmagic Design was founded in 1984. But, like RED, its most recent products nicely inform and support the OP's idea.

Your fellow shooters aren't suggesting these companies as examples of camera manufacturers who started yesterday and have product today; rather, they're offering examples of upstarts who asked questions not unlike the OP's and found creative ways with startup / venture resources and personnel to disrupt a mature market controlled by big, established players with fiercely loyal customers.

In other words: RED's initial step into Panavision's, ARRI's, and AAton's turf in the early aughts isn't wholly unlike someone thinking, today, that aspects of CaNikon's business look pretty stagnant and that there may be innovative opportunities to move in. At least if big-budget commercial and editorial photography is a measure, RED seems to be doing just that in some ways: the "Mysterium" cameras have been shooting lots and lots of magazine covers and features that could've been Nikon D4 or D800 material.

blue_cheese
blue_cheese Senior Member • Posts: 1,879
Re: According to your logic...

Joseph wrote:

... we can't criticize anything because "we haven't done it". Does it make sense?

With that line of thought, I should not be entitled to a political point of view because I have never been a politician

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blue_cheese
blue_cheese Senior Member • Posts: 1,879
Re: ...put your money where your mouth is

user_name wrote:

Given the revenue that the camera companies are generating lately I think we have a better business chance selling lipstick for pigs.

Actually that point alone proves that for once the mob might know what needs to be done better. Every "giant" that doesn't listen to its customers has fallen... Nokia and RIM are just two of some very similar and parallel examples.

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"A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others."
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Leswick Veteran Member • Posts: 3,102
Re: According to your logic...
1

Ahemmm, it's much easier to say that Nikon has been stabbing (in the dark, I suppose) for nearly 5 years and still can't come up with D710 or D400.  But, that also could be intentional (?).  If you care about DF....good!...it's not for me.

Leswick

Saffron_Blaze Contributing Member • Posts: 639
Re: Red was founded in 1999...

JimPearce wrote:

The ignorance on this board continues to astound me.

It's OK, many people have learning difficulties.

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photohp Regular Member • Posts: 387
We will put our money where our mouth is!

You logic is all wrong. "Putting your money were your mouth is" means buying it or not buying.

People will put their money were their mouth is; those who like the Df will buy it and those who don't will buy something else or simply wait.

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pluton Veteran Member • Posts: 3,095
Re: ...put your money where your mouth is

Drowsy Shah wrote:

How about "Pantex"?

'Pantex', alas, is already taken by the company that assembles nuclear bombs for the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantex_Plant

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-KB-

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Drowsy Shah Regular Member • Posts: 184
Re: ...put your money where your mouth is

pluton wrote:

Drowsy Shah wrote:

How about "Pantex"?

'Pantex', alas, is already taken by the company that assembles nuclear bombs for the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantex_Plant

That's too bad...

OP PixelMover Contributing Member • Posts: 750
Re: Of course people should feel free to express ...
1

That is not what I'm saying. I for one are disappointed that Nikon didn't go a step further to accomodate manual focussing, either through focus peaking in a hybrid EVF, or through -user swappable- focussing screens, even if that means (temporarily) giving up AF. But I (try) to understand why they didn't (cost, size, weight).

But that is different from flat out claiming that Nikon are idiots, that the company is run by incompetent people, that you know better than them. And resorting to personal insults because you somehow feel insulted or wronged by the camera they chose to make. That's what this is about.

Criticism is good, discussion is good, but there is too much mindless bashing by people who have absolutely no idea what it takes to design, build, market, sell and support a DSLR.

What if Nikon actually takes all this mindless hate and abuse to heart and decides never to push the boat out again because of the amount of abuse this generates online?

What if it gives up trying to make a Digital S FF rangefinder because so many on the internet seem to have A7 or X100 tunnelvision and trash everything else, without having the slightest clue why a FF Df can't be the size of a A7 or X100.

What if they never released the D400 because they knew that after the 1,5 year delay due to the Tsunami a vast amount of people would publicly trash it -without even having seen one- because the specs would now seem slightly outdated, no matter how brilliant the camera was.?

Some "Camera enthusiasts" seem to be getting closer and closer to mindless football hooligans who assault their own team's bus for playing a draw, even though they're still well ahead in the championship. Or hurl projectiles from the stands at their teams best forward for missing a penalty kick. It is a saddening development.

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OP PixelMover Contributing Member • Posts: 750
The meaning of...
1

photohp wrote:

You logic is all wrong. "Putting your money were your mouth is" means buying it or not buying.

...

Incorrect. The phrase 'to put one's money where one's mouth is has nothing to do with wallets and shopping.

It means to back up your wild claims with actions to show you can deliver on them.

My post was about people who openly claim to know better than Nikon, who claim they are better desgners, managers, developers, marketers. To them I said, show me what you can do.

It originated from people making wild boasts and claims and people then betting their own money against them on being able to show that they could actually deliver on those claims. In that contrext, my use of the idiom was correct.

It is easy to declare superiority from behind a keyboard, but how about proving it?

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Apollo18
Apollo18 Senior Member • Posts: 1,317
Don't feed the troll guys /nt
1
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John Motts Veteran Member • Posts: 5,512
Re: ...put your money where your mouth is
4

Most of the "armchair experts" couldn't even design an armchair!

Toccata47 Senior Member • Posts: 2,800
Delusional
1

PixelMover wrote:

Do you guys REALLY think Nikon didn't consider ALL those things you are crying, cursing and moaning about? If it's not there, it is not there for a very good reason.

How did the d600 sensor issues or d800 left-side af fit in to their plan again? Even the most ardent corporate supporter would be hard pressed to ignore corporations make grievous and far fetched errors regularly.

The point that Nikon doesn't tailor make a camera for everyone is simple enough. People are entitled to share their opinions. That's the point of a forum like this anyway. You've shared yours; should you be blasted for making a stupid post? Try to be civil and if your internal "ignore" filter is having trouble, dpr provides one for you.

rhlpetrus Forum Pro • Posts: 25,682
Re: Of course people should feel free to express ...

I have to agree with you that many seem so excited either way that claims and complaints tend to get very absurd around these forums, but that's the internet. You can just ignore that. Nikon won't sell more or less cameras because of such crazy stuff. What did hurt them was how they managed the D600's issue, that shows in sales, they shoudl be selling much more of those than Canon the 6D or the 5D3, but that hasn't happened.

So, there are complaints and complaints, and then there are the nutty fanboyish attitude that everything is fine, Pollyanna style.

In the end, most just look around, not even intervening in these threads. I notice that when I post a link to one of my Flickr galleries to use as some sort of example, and suddenly I get hundreds or even thousands of hits for those images and almost nobody replies to the post here.

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photohp Regular Member • Posts: 387
Re: The meaning of...

PixelMover wrote:

photohp wrote:

You logic is all wrong. "Putting your money were your mouth is" means buying it or not buying.

...

Incorrect. The phrase 'to put one's money where one's mouth is has nothing to do with wallets and shopping.

It means to back up your wild claims with actions to show you can deliver on them.

My post was about people who openly claim to know better than Nikon, who claim they are better desgners, managers, developers, marketers. To them I said, show me what you can do.

It originated from people making wild boasts and claims and people then betting their own money against them on being able to show that they could actually deliver on those claims. In that contrext, my use of the idiom was correct.

It is easy to declare superiority from behind a keyboard, but how about proving it?

No mate, you go it wrong. As I said in this case the way this saying applies is for those who support it to buy it and prove that is a good camera, and for those who do, use something else to show the opposite.

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Canadianguy Senior Member • Posts: 1,742
Re: + 1: Black Magic Cinema Camera Says Hello

MarkJH wrote:

Drowsy Shah wrote:

JimPearce wrote:

Who would be foolish enough to start a camera company now, anyway?

RED.

And they're landing magazine covers like crazy.

See also: Blackmagic Design.

What are the common threads, here?

(1) Motion + Stills from the ground up

(2) Mirrorless / EVF

(3) Highly modular design and project-adaptable form factor: storage, I/O, grip all highly configurable. Scale it up for major motion picture principal photography, scale it down for super-16 indie location scouting

(4) Any lens mount you want: ARRI P/L to EOS-EF to m4/3

(5) Direct compatibility with industry standard third party software and support--no kludgy Adobe-reverse-engineering NEFs-because-Nikon-won't-cooperate.

Looks like a fine, fine future, to me. Probably less so to CaNikon--especially Nikon.

Common thread to me appears to be - build for the commercial market - ignore the consumer market - the rich folks with money to burn will buy your commercial products.

No need to market to the retail consumer - they will just complain that your product costs too much.

Raul Veteran Member • Posts: 8,174
Not possible
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John Motts Veteran Member • Posts: 5,512
Re: Red was founded in 1999...

JimPearce wrote:

The ignorance on this board continues to astound me.

Isn't it great calling people ignorant!

SonyForNow
SonyForNow Regular Member • Posts: 359
Olympus beat me to it with OM-D E-M5. n/t

No text.

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