DPR GX7 review is up! Locked

Started Nov 7, 2013 | Discussions
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murfthesurf Contributing Member • Posts: 634
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!

kirlen wrote:

Many valid points in this review but the whole EVF discussion leaves me scratching my head. It totally works for me in bright light and dim. About the only time I don't use it is when I am using a tripod and the screen is better for composing a shot. I don't feel equipment challenged in any way. Although I can replicate "tearing" if I work at it, it's still the best EVF I have tried. (Your results may vary, of course.) It's bright, clear and adds minimal "bulk" to the overall camera. I have worked with "bolt on" EVF's in the past and there is no comparison in terms of bulk and functionality. Not to mention the trauma of snagging one on some other gear... ouch!

My GX-7 has become my "go to" camera for day to day shooting (I still love my GH-3 but that's another story.) over the past month so I have developed some level of familiarity with it. It's not without a few quirks (sometimes I do hit the wrong tiny button, for example.) but if I objectively consider how many times I have missed a shot due to some design error the answer is "zero"... Wish I could say the same about operator error!

As to the score.... meh.

Now there's a well adjusted individual!

I find it rather amusing how personal some people are taking the fact that the DPR review was a solid 79%.  As if something magically happened in a negative way to their camera once the review came out.  It's still the same camera they have been enjoying since they got it.  I say shrug it off and continue enjoying your camera.

You'd think the reviewer was telling them that their kids were ugly or something.

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tgutgu Veteran Member • Posts: 4,083
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!

Nemo0815 wrote:

tgutgu wrote:

I don't know, why all the fuss about the silver award. The camera just did not make it to gold, and the view finder is one important reason for it. However, 79% does not mean that the GX7 is a bad camera!

Dpreview must make a cut somehow. To grant gold inflationary isn't a good think, because otherwise the gold award looses credibility. With such a view finder, a camera in this category simply should not get gold. The view finder is a central instrument of such a camera, so it deserves a high influence to the ranking.

Reviewing the gold awards, I think the GX7 fits very well in the scheme. It scored one point more than its competitor, the E-P5. Looks about right.

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Thomas

Hi Thomas, I agree with your points about the gold award, but in my own experience the EVF is very good. Have you tried one?

Rick

No, he hasn't. He's just argueing the same (wrong) things over and over again.

You cannot have even the slightest idea, if I had tried the GX7 or not. So shut up with this. I have tried it. And I have tried both GX7 and E-M1 side by side. Why I liked the GX7 ergonomics and size, the view finder of the E-M1 was the reason to get this camera instead of the GX7. The difference of the view finder alone would justify a point difference of at least two between the two cameras, but as I have said, the GX7 is a very good camera.

However, it is unfortunate, that Panasonic currently is not able to provide state of the art EVFs. That is after three model releases evident now.

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Thomas

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MarkyM Senior Member • Posts: 1,006
Re: MISTAKE IN ARTICLE re: pop-up flash and wireless control

Yes, you'd think the reviewer would have read and studied the manual, wouldn't you?

I'm not sure that Jeff Keller (formerly of DC Resource) was the right person to write this review.

But you have to take all of these reviews with the proverbial "grain of salt". No camera is perfect and no single review is perfect.

There is enough information out there to be able to make an informed decision, but it requires some time to research and it won't be found all in one place or on one site.

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Pedagydusz Veteran Member • Posts: 5,549
Re: My (premature) take: strange result

dpreviewreader wrote:

[...] The EP5+VF4 is better quality [...]

Yes, but is is an optional accessory! And it costs money, so it brings up the price. Plus, the best VF is one that is always there if needed! I know, because I have the E-PL5 and the VF-2 (I had it from a previous Pen). I like the camera very much, and the VF is on occasion very useful - when I don't forget it at home!

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tgutgu Veteran Member • Posts: 4,083
Re: My fuss is about double standards.

Jorginho wrote:

- When an EVF is a negative as it adds weight, one would expect that all camera's with such an EVF would be noted for that downside. I looked up the X100S: no mention of EVF being negative.

Another thing: X100s gets a gold award. When I look at the list of cons that is a very long list. The video is crappy, there seem to be moire issues,

- Its video is much better than EP5/EM1s, yet it is scored the same...

Gold silver...I don't care. I know it is subjective, but I do like that similar camera's get treate dand rated in a similar way.

A view finder is a feature that is used generally, regardless of stills or video. Video is something not everybody wants or needs and is not required for video. As such the quality of a view finder should have more weight than video.

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Thomas

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peppermonkey Veteran Member • Posts: 4,720
Well, no, they aren't reporting non-existent problems...

rcjim wrote:

MikeInRomsey wrote:

When i first considered the GX7 I was concerned about the 'tearing' issue of the EVF. I tried it in the shop and have not experienced rainbow tearing at all in 2 weeks usage. Other reviews say the same. The data rate on the GX7 is increased from the G5/G6 EVFs so this should lessen the effect. Some people seem to notice the effect more than others so if you are concerned go and try it out for yourself.

I find the statement that it cannot be used outdoors to be nothing short of absurd.

And as for 'adds bulk to camera' of course it does, but not nearly so much as the VF4 perched precariously on top of the Olympus EP-5.

This review and scoring does not appear to be very objective to me.

Of course, it's not objective. All of this crap about a poor EVF in the GX7 is BS. I tried the GX7 in my local camera shop and I was very impressed with the EVF AND I wear eyeglasses. I saw no "tearing" and "rainbow effect." The bottom line is that most of this negative BS about the EVF is being said by two kinds of people:

1. Those who need to see an optometrist.

2. Oly fanboys who will never have an ounce of objectiveness towards Pany cameras.

The bottom line is that I'm going to order the black GX7 from my local camera shop and I'm stoked about owning this camera!

Different eyes have different experiences with EVF's. And unfortunately for Panasonic, those that review Panasonic cameras all have eyes that have problems with Panasonic EVF's.

Personally, I think that's a good thing as it would make Panasonic to engineer and build better EVF's because there are certainly problems with them.

I am not an Oly fanboy. Actually the only Oly camera I have is an old Olympus 35 RD which needs it's shutters CLA'd. Heck, currently I don't have any Oly lenses either (though that's more of a case of not having enough $$$ to get them...). And although I haven't encountered the problems DPR is reporting (tearing, etc.) I do instantly notice that the Oly EVF's are much easier on my eyes, cleaner, and clearer (though I do like the colours and tone better in the GX7 EVF).

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Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 35,057
Re:Modified to Gold Star Award

Advent1sam wrote:

Well I'll know tomorrow thats for sure, but I do think saying the evf adds bulk is idiotic.

I agree about that being questionable, but. . . idiotic?

I can appreciate the VF being considered 'bulky' for this particular styling, in that the eyecup and movable VF could confound what otherwise looks to be a relatively pocketable model, catching on cloth or seams (and maybe a bag).   But that's a consideration of how one carries/utilizes their camera.  I have more problems accessing my gear from the Thinktank bags than I do the deeper depth Billinghams, for example.  The trade off is convenience and bulk of each bag.

On the other hand, it's the reviewer's opinion.   Which is just as valid as yours and mine, so it should be accepted as such.  We don't have to agree, but I think we should give the other perspective equal respect.  It's not like the opinion was disrespect for your opinion and sensibilities,  though your passionate reaction makes it sound like that's exactly what's irking you.

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LMNCT Veteran Member • Posts: 4,898
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!

Absolutely agree about the operation of the EVF being subject to the physical limitations of the user.  I find the EVF to be perfectly fine.  Further, I find the ability to set a "pinpoint" focusing target to be excellent for getting those sharp shots of bird/cat/dog/human eyes.  Having been frustrated by the 'box' target in other systems and having not been about to attain focus through things like tree branches, I very much appreciate the improvement in the focus area.  Auto Focus should work well on these cameras and it does work well on the GX7.

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LMNCT Veteran Member • Posts: 4,898
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!

Try the camera for yourself before adopting the attitude of the reviewer.  The EVF is really a great addition and it is easy to use if you know what you are doing.

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peppermonkey Veteran Member • Posts: 4,720
Umm...that's not exactly what he's saying...

tgutgu wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

- When an EVF is a negative as it adds weight, one would expect that all camera's with such an EVF would be noted for that downside. I looked up the X100S: no mention of EVF being negative.

Another thing: X100s gets a gold award. When I look at the list of cons that is a very long list. The video is crappy, there seem to be moire issues,

- Its video is much better than EP5/EM1s, yet it is scored the same...

Gold silver...I don't care. I know it is subjective, but I do like that similar camera's get treate dand rated in a similar way.

A view finder is a feature that is used generally, regardless of stills or video. Video is something not everybody wants or needs and is not required for video. As such the quality of a view finder should have more weight than video.

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Thomas

...about video.

Via DPR, they are saying that the video is rated as the same as the E-P5, E-M1.

As far as I can tell, GX7 has much better video than either of those two, so why is it rated the same?

And yes, I do agree with you that the EVF should be ranted higher in importance than video.

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Hubert
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LMNCT Veteran Member • Posts: 4,898
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!

This is getting tiresome.  The EVF is not a problem if you know what you are doing.  I have the GX7 and find it to be a great improvement over other systems.  Once again I will mention the "pinpoint" focusing target which is available on the GX7 and which I find to be of great value.  Reading this review would lead you to believe that the camera is just another half hearted effort, but that is not true.  It really is a good photographic tool.

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Pixnat2
Pixnat2 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,177
More annoying is

peppermonkey wrote:

I didn't realize in-camera RAW processing was so prevalent in todays cameras that it's a must have (whereby a lack of is a con). And what other m43 camera has in-camera RAW processing (I know that E-M1 has it...)? Do all other m43 cameras have in-camera RAW processing? As it's the first time I heard of a lack of it being a con...

that Panasonic didn't provide a sofrware like Olympus Viewer, Canon RAW utility or Nikon ViewNX that allow to devellop RAWs exactly the same that In Camera JPEGS. That's very useful to see the effects of each camera settings directly on the computer.

But this is all Panasonic cameras, not only the GX7, and shoudn't be listed as a con!

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peppermonkey Veteran Member • Posts: 4,720
I don't think the problem is with the fact that...

Bob Tullis wrote:

Advent1sam wrote:

Well I'll know tomorrow thats for sure, but I do think saying the evf adds bulk is idiotic.

I agree about that being questionable, but. . . idiotic?

I can appreciate the VF being considered 'bulky' for this particular styling, in that the eyecup and movable VF could confound what otherwise looks to be a relatively pocketable model, catching on cloth or seams (and maybe a bag). But that's a consideration of how one carries/utilizes their camera. I have more problems accessing my gear from the Thinktank bags than I do the deeper depth Billinghams, for example. The trade off is convenience and bulk of each bag.

On the other hand, it's the reviewer's opinion. Which is just as valid as yours and mine, so it should be accepted as such. We don't have to agree, but I think we should give the other perspective equal respect. It's not like the opinion was disrespect for your opinion and sensibilities, though your passionate reaction makes it sound like that's exactly what's irking you.

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EVF adds bulk. It does. We all know that. I think the problem is that the GX7 is singled out as the one m43 camera that add bulk from it's EVF when cameras such as E-M1, E-M5 with their prism/hump and E-P5 (with VF4) does not add any bulk or at least not as much bulk as the GX7. The opinions are valid, certainly, but I think some would just ask for a little more consistency.

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Hubert
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peppermonkey Veteran Member • Posts: 4,720
hmm...

Pixnat2 wrote:

peppermonkey wrote:

I didn't realize in-camera RAW processing was so prevalent in todays cameras that it's a must have (whereby a lack of is a con). And what other m43 camera has in-camera RAW processing (I know that E-M1 has it...)? Do all other m43 cameras have in-camera RAW processing? As it's the first time I heard of a lack of it being a con...

that Panasonic didn't provide a sofrware like Olympus Viewer, Canon RAW utility or Nikon ViewNX that allow to devellop RAWs exactly the same that In Camera JPEGS. That's very useful to see the effects of each camera settings directly on the computer.

But this is all Panasonic cameras, not only the GX7, and shoudn't be listed as a con!

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Never thought about that but that would certainly be nice. Would appreciate it greatly.

It may not be listed as a con simply because all Panny cameras comes bundled with Silkypix for RAW processing. I'm not saying that's as good or better option but you can't say Panny doesn't provide RAW processing software.

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Hubert
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safaridon Veteran Member • Posts: 3,321
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!

Ironically DPR downgraded the GX7 IBIS simply because it is deactivated when used for video rather than actually testing its effectiveness for stills.  One poster on this forum offered some extensive tests  with many comparative pictures between the IBIS of EM5 and GX7 and found to his surprise the 2 axis IBIS on GX7 to be far superior to the 5 axis IBIS of EM5 at slower shutter speeds on virtually every lens outside of the 20mm where they were about equal!

dpreviewreader Regular Member • Posts: 485
Re: My (premature) take: strange result

Pedagydusz wrote:

dpreviewreader wrote:

[...] The EP5+VF4 is better quality [...]

Yes, but is is an optional accessory! And it costs money, so it brings up the price. Plus, the best VF is one that is always there if needed! I know, because I have the E-PL5 and the VF-2 (I had it from a previous Pen). I like the camera very much, and the VF is on occasion very useful - when I don't forget it at home!

You do yourself a disservice by quoting only half a sentence. I will rewrite it for your benefit once more.

The EP5+VF4 is better quality than GX7 with the convenience of a built-in EVF. It is a question of what you prefer - better quality or convenience.

You prefer convenience and that is fine.

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John Camp Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!

I have two GX7s and also a full Nikon system topped with a D800 and a D3.

I mention that because the review seemed oddly subjective -- like the whole rainbow effect thing. I go back and forth between the OVF of the Nikon to the GX7's EVF, and honest-to-God, I've never noticed a rainbow effect (whatever that is) in either camera. I've gone stumbling around my back yard, in bright sunlight (Santa Fe, NM) trying to figure out the rainbow effect, but can't. Is it a low-light phenomenon? I haven't found the EVF problematic in daytime shooting at all, and the sun here is HARSH. I also find the tiltable LCD to be really excellent. It has less bulk that the fully twistable ones, but, as I've used it, I find that it does everything I need. You can easily shoot overhead, or waist-high.

I suppose I'm just as subjective as the reviewer, but I do go back and forth between a good OVF and the the GX7 without effort, or hesitation, or frustration, so I am really befuddled by the commentary. As far as the gold vs. silver thing, I don't care about that. What I do sort of care about is that I would prefer a test that is as objective as possible, and, on the unavoidably subjective bits, more than one reviewer. If he'd passed it around the office, I suspect more than a few of the other people using it would have failed to mention any "rainbow" problem...unless he had a bad camera.

LMNCT Veteran Member • Posts: 4,898
Re: Ha! Confirmed! E-M5 and E-M1 has just as good video!

I would be happy if video functions became an option and if bodies were manufactured without any video.  If I want video, I will use a video camera...and get better results!

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Pikme Senior Member • Posts: 2,176
2 comments on viewfinder

First, amazing isn't it, that the Nikon D7100 and Fuji XE-2 viewfinders both look so TINY compared to either the EM1 or GX7.  I never thought the day would come that m4/3 users could comment about the tiny APS-C viewfinder sizes, heh!

Second, while I have not used GX7 myself, I was struck by the reviewer's comments concerning frustration over the EVF not blocking incident light outdoors. I've experienced the same issue with optional EVF for the Panny LX5 (not saying the EVFs are remotely similar, just the stray light issue) - it is so bothersome that even though I believe the LX5 is a more sophisticated camera than its counterpart Oly XZ1, I rarely used the LX5 because it was just too frustrating to try to use the EVF.

My point is, many shooters will never be bothered if they don't shoot under the same conditions, but if they do - that frustration has to impact the overall view of the camera itself.  How often do reviewers excuse a host of problems because a camera is 'just so fun to use'?  But in this case, we may have the reverse, where tiny issues seem larger because the EVF causes frustration to the reviewer.  It is a small thing, but Panasonic should consider improving the standard eye cup for future cameras, just to remove the issue altogether.

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Roberto M.

LMNCT Veteran Member • Posts: 4,898
Re: DPR GX7 review is up!

I totally agree.  Until the advent of the locking bases on the EVFs I spent a lot of time trying to figure out ways to secure one using elastic bands.  Farewell to that!
I ag

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