Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

Started Oct 17, 2013 | Discussions
OP Astrophotographer 10 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,622
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

Absolutely!  LOL.

Greg.

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OP Astrophotographer 10 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,622
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

I wonder if Fuji is using this XE2 first strategy to gain time to make the XPro 2 a more different camera to XE2. Its too similar. If it were given an updated sensor, maybe a 20 or 24mp APSc sensor like in the Nex7 but without the colour cast wide angle problems that would be good.

Greg.

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Gunston Gun
Gunston Gun Regular Member • Posts: 352
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

Yeah, FF is always a good idea for my manual lenses. fuji is slow in this department...they still living in APS-C era

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Toccata47 Senior Member • Posts: 2,800
Yes, but there can be only 1 /highlander mode:on

I have no brand loyalty and find these two to be duplicative for my use, but the sony has a better evf, faster af, is free of wonky software hiccups, and is better able to adapt my other lenses. A solid win in my book. There's a chance that it may be ble to replace my d800 too, which would be great.

Zalan Contributing Member • Posts: 864
No (nt)
No
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Zalan Szabo
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gerard boulanger Senior Member • Posts: 2,262
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

No.

Main reason to me is size/weight of fast lenses made for FF. Body might be compact, but fast and good lenses are not.

The Fuji X system has the perfect size/weight/quality/IQ combination to fit my requirements. Having said that, I would consider the X-pro successor in APS sensor size of course. In FF: absolutely not.

I am happy with my system and try to focus on my ability to use it instead of hoping for more pixels. The race for pixels is over for me, however I would consider a weather sealed body, better/faster AF, better focus peaking, better framing in OVF, different tripod thread location, better access to card/battery, better battery life and wi-fi access.

If such a package comes with 24 M pixels, I won't complain (as long as noise and DR do not suffer), but the increased number of pixels is not my goal.

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Krich13 Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

GuardianFlash wrote:

Fit a FF sensor and mirror in a compact DSLR body? Dream on boy.

Really? Check your facts.

Original Olympus OM-1: 136x83x50 mm. Yes, with Full-frame sensor, mirror and pentaprism. That’s a film camera, meaning it had to accommodate two film cassettes. Leave the room of one cassette for the battery, and trim the other one – you can easily shave another 10 mm of width on the left side (modern processors take hardly any room).

For comparison:

Olympus OM-D EM-1: 139x94x63 mm

Sony A7: 126x94x48 mm

Fuji X-Pro1: 140x81x43 mm.

Krich13 Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?
1

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

A small compact full frame with those absolutely gorgeous 24 and 36mp sensors is very tempting.

How many are tempted?

Greg.

Sony does look very tempting. There are a lot of things that will likely be better with Sony than with my current X-E1:

1. Better (less luggy) EVF with better resolution

2. Tilting LCD

3. Faster focusing with native lenses, OSPDAF, AF during video

4. Better video

5. Better high ISO/noise performance (and I hope Sony wouldn’t overstate ISO settings the way Fuji does)

6. ISO 100 setting (hopefully native)

7. Most important: potential for shallower DOF with fast lenses

8. No problems with RAW converters decoding X-Trans

9. Potentially better resolution (a very minor point, 16 MP is more than enough for me)

10. It is already clear that A7 will have larger market presence than Fuji X system, creating interest for 3-rd party lens manufacturers (Tamron/Sigma). Hopefully more lens options.

11. Compatibility with existing NEX lenses. For instance, users already figured out that 10-18 mm lens covers decent part of A7 sensor between 12 and 16 mm! That’s huge!

12. It seems that Fuji has saboteurs in their user interface team which I hope do not work for Sony. Come on, no Exposure compensation in Manual regime with Auto ISO? Why the lens moves at all when I view images? Why don’t I immediately get a magnified view when touching focus ring? Why manual and auto-focus points stay separate? Wow, finally user selectable min shutter speed… which doesn't take into account the focal length. The list goes on… Come on Fuji, fire these guys already!

However, I’m not switching yet. Here’s why:

1. Sony used E-mount, to which an FF sensor fits very tightly. Tight fit --> no room for displacement --> no way they implement IBIS --> in-lens stabilization --> delay of the third party stabilized options. And native lenses announced are very expensive and slow.

2. Very few native lenses, and expensive and slow lenses at that. However, as ridiculous at $1000 for 55/1.8 lens sounds (in FF world one would expect $150-200 price tag for that), it’s still 55/1.8 lens (and I paid $900 for Zeiss 32/1.8 which is only equivalent to 48/2.7 on FF). Likewise, the kit 28-70 f/3.5-5.6 lens is quite similar to Fuji 18-55 f/2.8-4 (which is equivalent to 27-83 f/4.2—6).

3. It remains to be seen how well it works with legacy lenses (may be offset microlens array spoils performance there).

4. Remains to be seen how strong the AA filter on A7 is and whether it has resolution advantage at all (I’m not interested in 36 MP A7R)

5. Viewfinder hump

6. Viewfinder in the wrong place significantly compromising portability.

7. No built-in flash

8. Sony colors seem to be improving (out-of cam JPEGs) but I don’t believe they are as good as Fuji yet

9. The first generation product, may have very annoying quirks/defects. Let early adopters figure it out.

So I’ll wait for official reviews, user experience reports and may be third party lenses – and then switch. May be to the second generation of this product… Or stay with Fuji if it makes a FF sensor by then.

Don3rd Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

No.  Actually I'm a former Sony NEX-7 user going the other way.  I love the Sony's but their convoluted roadmap makes me very nervous.  After investing in nice Sony E-Mount Zeiss glass its was very disappointing to learn that all my lenses would only work in crop mode on the A7/A7r and that all that investment is somewhat obsolete.  Also, in looking at the Sony roadmap, it will take them the next few years to complete their lens line-up.

I have since sold all of my Sony equipment, and pre-ordered the E-X2.  Fuji's lens roadmap is much more thought through.  I also like the way they have supported users of existing camera's with firmware updates.  I think I would say I'm now 95% in the Fuji camp, as I'm feeling they are more focused on me as the customer and protecting my investment in equipment.

My two cents from a frustrated, ex-Sony user ...

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Randy Benter
Randy Benter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,186
Re: my thoughts
2

Absolutic wrote:

I'd need a good zoom or several primes and the 28-70 looks huge

It is not "huge". It is only 1/2" longer than Fuji's 18-55 and the Sony lens is lighter.

X-Pro1 (APS-C) compared to Sony A7 (FF)

The Sony FF body is significantly smaller than a FF DSLR:

Sony A7 compared to Canon 5D iii

I think it depends on which lenses you plan to use. The primes and standard zooms should be fine on the A7. If I planned to use the 70-200 regularly, then I would rather have the larger 5Diii body to balance it.

A7 + 70-200 f/4 compared to 5D iii + 70-200 f/4

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Red5TX
Red5TX Senior Member • Posts: 1,586
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

Nope. Uninspiring lens line-up. Uninspiring Sony track record.

hexxthalion Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

Krich13 wrote:

F/2.8-4 lens is f/2.8-4 regardless of film/sensor size

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Krich13 Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

hexxthalion wrote:

Krich13 wrote:

F/2.8-4 lens is f/2.8-4 regardless of film/sensor size

... and 18-55 mm lens is 18-55 regardless of film/sensor size.

However, if you convert the focal length for equivalent angle of view, you must also convert the aperture for the same depth of field and light gathering ability (e.g. to evaluate noise or signal-to noise performance (and convert ISO for equal shutter speed).

For instance:

18 mm f/2.8 lens on a crop x1.5 camera at ISO 200 would produce a shot virtually indistinguishable from (same angle of view, same DOF, same signal-to-noise -- if the sensors use similar technology, same shutter speed/motion blur and even the same diffraction limited resolution) as 27 mm f/4.2 lens on full frame camera at ISO 450 AFTER both shots are scaled (up/or downsized) to the same pixel dimensions.

hexxthalion Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

Krich13 wrote:

hexxthalion wrote:

Krich13 wrote:

F/2.8-4 lens is f/2.8-4 regardless of film/sensor size

... and 18-55 mm lens is 18-55 regardless of film/sensor size.

However, if you convert the focal length for equivalent angle of view, you must also convert the aperture for the same depth of field and light gathering ability (e.g. to evaluate noise or signal-to noise performance (and convert ISO for equal shutter speed).

For instance:

18 mm f/2.8 lens on a crop x1.5 camera at ISO 200 would produce a shot virtually indistinguishable from (same angle of view, same DOF, same signal-to-noise -- if the sensors use similar technology, same shutter speed/motion blur and even the same diffraction limited resolution) as 27 mm f/4.2 lens on full frame camera at ISO 450 AFTER both shots are scaled (up/or downsized) to the same pixel dimensions.

That's all fine, but comparing Fuji's fast zoom to Sony's slow zoom is pointless - we're talking about the 'speed' of lens, or light gathering ability. So in real world where you'd use large aperture on the wide end would be probably under worse light - you wouldn't do it for shallow DoF.

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Krich13 Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

hexxthalion wrote:

Krich13 wrote:

hexxthalion wrote:

Krich13 wrote:

F/2.8-4 lens is f/2.8-4 regardless of film/sensor size

... and 18-55 mm lens is 18-55 regardless of film/sensor size.

However, if you convert the focal length for equivalent angle of view, you must also convert the aperture for the same depth of field and light gathering ability (e.g. to evaluate noise or signal-to noise performance (and convert ISO for equal shutter speed).

For instance:

18 mm f/2.8 lens on a crop x1.5 camera at ISO 200 would produce a shot virtually indistinguishable from (same angle of view, same DOF, same signal-to-noise -- if the sensors use similar technology, same shutter speed/motion blur and even the same diffraction limited resolution) as 27 mm f/4.2 lens on full frame camera at ISO 450 AFTER both shots are scaled (up/or downsized) to the same pixel dimensions.

That's all fine, but comparing Fuji's fast zoom to Sony's slow zoom is pointless - we're talking about the 'speed' of lens, or light gathering ability. So in real world where you'd use large aperture on the wide end would be probably under worse light - you wouldn't do it for shallow DoF.

This _is_ the light gathering ability: the total amount of light (or number of photons) delivered to the sensor. To the whole of the sensor, NOT amount of light _per_unit_area_. Sony lens is slower, but it captures nearly the same amount of light (more actually) as the "faster" Fuji lens -- and then spreads this light over a larger sensor. If you subdivide the larger sensor into the same NUMBER (not density) of pixels as a smaller sensor, each pixel will receive the same amount of light and provide the same signal-to noise ratio. If the larger sensor has more pixels, each pixel will end up noisier, but downsample the images to the same pixel size -- and their noise would turn out similar again.

In good light or bad, wide aperture or slow, wide end or tele-- use the conversion formula above and you will obtain similar results with full-frame and cropped sensors (or medium/large format for that matter, in that case use "crop factors" smaller than 1).

MrGubrz
MrGubrz Senior Member • Posts: 1,213
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

um

the shutters loud and ugly sounding

silly?  yes.  but im spoiled by the x100 and rx1

i really dont know if i can go back to a non leaf shutter camera again... everytime i see a new shiny camera, i hear the shutter, and cringe(tho my em5 has a nice sounding shutter... its still louder than id like)

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1drey
1drey Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

Nice analysis. Agree with majority of points.

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1drey
1drey Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Nice field review of 7/7r by Camera Store

http://youtu.be/bnvgceTEV3c

Seems that Sony managed to learn the user interface lesson )

Too bad that the shutter is so loud.

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brownie314
brownie314 Senior Member • Posts: 1,911
Re: Are you tempted to switch to Sony A7 or get one as well as your Fuji?

GuardianFlash wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

A small compact full frame with those absolutely gorgeous 24 and 36mp sensors is very tempting.

How many are tempted?

Greg.

Nah. Not really. I would like to see some try to make a FF dslr as small as possible. But this mirrorless - not really doing it for me.

Fit a FF sensor and mirror in a compact DSLR body? Dream on boy.

Now that it is known that Nikon (worst kept secret ever) will release a "digital FM" style full frame camera with a mirror very soon (also known as more compact than a dslr) - how does that hat taste boy?

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