The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)

Started Oct 13, 2013 | User reviews
Arn
Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,582
The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)
13

I've got the Samsung NX 10mm f/3.5 fisheye for a few days now and I'm presenting initial thoughts here. The first and most obvious thing about the lens is of course the size, which is incredible. Weight-performance ratio doesn't get any better than this. At 72g weight and 26mm length, the Samsung 10mm fish is the smallest AF fisheye lens available for interchangeable lens cameras at the moment (at least that I know of).

size comparison:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#318.387,472.4,482.4,333.158,380.166,ha,t

NX20+10mm, Panasonic 8mm fish on the micro 43 cameras, Sigma 10mm on the Rebel and Sigma 15mm on the 6D.

Long story short: the lens is sharp and AF works well. I did side by side test shooting of the NX20 + 10mm vs Canon 7D + Sigma 10mm f/2.8 HSM. It's hard to do direct comparison between lenses that are on two very different camera bodies. Differences between the images may be due to differences in white balance, sensor performance and internal image processing (even the RAW files of all cameras are processed, there are differences in contrast, sharpening, noise processing, etc).

Of course the FOV is wider on the 1.5 crop factor Samsung compared to the 1.6x of the Canon. The Samsung 10mm is a 180 degree diagonal (as a 10mm fish would be for example on a Nikon APS-C) compared to a 167 degrees of the Canon. The Samsung appears to be a little bit sharper at all apertures. Images from the Canon-Sigma combination appear at times to be a bit more saturated. The difference in favour of either combination may be due to the way the camera and sensor process the image and minor post processing (white balance, sharpening) is enough to make any apparent difference disappear. Samsung 10mm produces very little CA compared to the Sigma, but this is also easily removed in post processing. AF was more consistent on Samsung (that is, just about perfect).

f/6.3, 1/320s, ISO 100:

http://500px.com/photo/48969780

What I can say about the differences between the two combinations is this: I enjoyed shooting with the Samsung 10mm much more than I did with 7D + Sigma 10mm. Main reasons lie in the handling of the lens-body combination. First of all, there's a significant weight advantage for the Samsung NX20 + 10mm (487g) combination vs Canon 7D + Sigma 10mm (1454g). Yes, the Canon + Sigma produces a whopping tripple the weight of the Samsung combination, i.e. an extra kilo of weight in your hand. I really didn't feel like reaching for the heavier choise when I tried the Samsung first. Second, the tilt+swivel LCD really helps with composition, when not shooting at eye level and the camera held in landscape orientation. In this regard a 650D/700D etc might be better than a 7D, but with the lighter bodies the lens would make it more nose-heavy and possibly equally awkward to handle. Also the electronic level of the NX20 is easier to read than the the 7D electronic level, this was apparent to me many times while shooting outside - I didn't need to squint and stare at the screen while shooting with the NX20.

f/3.5, 1/8s, ISO 1600:

http://500px.com/photo/48818178

Now, the Samsung 10mm has it's quirks - because it's so thin (26mm long), you have to be careful not to get the fingers of your right hand in the frame! As to the negatives of the lens, the only thing that I can think of is the lens cap, which is a bit too easily budged off the lens, the attachment could be tighter. At f/3.5 the lens is of course a bit slower than for example the Sigma at f/2.8, but that is very understandable considering the weight and the size. As noted, I much rather choose the Samsung over the bulky Sigma. On the other hand, the Panasonic 8mm f/3.5 for micro four thirds weighs over 2x more than the Samsung 10mm and is also twice as long and of course in relation to sensor size is considered even slower. Well, ok, there is one more negative about the NX 10mm fish - there is no distance scale for manual focusing. I can live without it, as the AF works well, but there _should_ be a distance scale at least in the camera, when selecting manual focus. This could be added to the camera as a firmware update and doesn't neccessarily need to be on the lens (a lens this small couldn't have it anyway).

Sorry for presenting only two images this time, more to follow I'm sure.

 Arn's gear list:Arn's gear list
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Samsung NX 10mm F3.5 Fisheye
Wideangle fisheye prime lens • Samsung NX • EX-F10ANB/US, EX-F10ANW/US
Announced: Jun 11, 2013
Arn's score
5.0
Average community score
5.0
Samsung NX 10mm F3.5 Fisheye Samsung NX20 Sigma 10mm F2.8 EX DC HSM Diagonal Fisheye
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geoson Contributing Member • Posts: 900
Re: The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)
2

What a split personality Samsung has a camera maker!  The keep producing good quality affordable lenses like this, but then their gadget roots kick in with their cameras and accessories, and they leave out some photography basics.  Maybe the lens guys should stage a coup;-)!

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arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)

Now, the Samsung 10mm has it's quirks - because it's so thin (26mm long), you have to be careful not to get the fingers of your right hand in the frame!

I second that. My first walk with samsung fisheye (also on NX20 body) resulted in half of the pictures having finger in down right corner.

Other than that I don't really have any other experiences with fisheyes so it's difficult to comment IQ or chromatic abberations. I woudln't say it's tack sharp (not too soft as well) but comparing 30mm to 16mm and 12-24mm I see that it's difficult to achieve sharpness of NX30 or NX45 with wide lens. The fisheye seems to produce visible high amount of chromatic abberations (esp. on overcast sky) but I was able to correct it in lightroom without much effort. Again, I cannot say how it works in other models so I am happy reading your comparison with sigma.

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NewForce Senior Member • Posts: 1,263
Re: The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)

arbuz wrote:

Now, the Samsung 10mm has it's quirks - because it's so thin (26mm long), you have to be careful not to get the fingers of your right hand in the frame!

I second that. My first walk with samsung fisheye (also on NX20 body) resulted in half of the pictures having finger in down right corner.

Hmm.. odd enough. With 100% EVF, both of you didn't see that coming?

I have no similae problem with NX300 100% liveview AMOLED screen. The only time I had similar problem was with those less than 100% OVF camera models.

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Kenny

Arn
OP Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,582
Re: The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)

NewForce wrote:

arbuz wrote:

Now, the Samsung 10mm has it's quirks - because it's so thin (26mm long), you have to be careful not to get the fingers of your right hand in the frame!

I second that. My first walk with samsung fisheye (also on NX20 body) resulted in half of the pictures having finger in down right corner.

Hmm.. odd enough. With 100% EVF, both of you didn't see that coming?

I have no similae problem with NX300 100% liveview AMOLED screen. The only time I had similar problem was with those less than 100% OVF camera models.

I think it's obvious, really. You're not used to shooting with fisheye lenses that are 6-7 times larger than the Samsung. And probably you haven't spent the last 10 years shooting with cameras that have enormous grips. Usually even with fisheyes (on SLRs), you can have the largest hands in the world and there's no worry of your hand protruding into the frame. So it was just something I wasn't expecting I don't usually pay that much attention to the very corners of the image while shooting.

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tecnoworld
tecnoworld Veteran Member • Posts: 7,206
Re: The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)

I agree, the lenses are definitely the best part of nx system. Unfortunately they took a very wrong direction with galaxy nx, but I still hope they can come back on the right track with nx30.

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NewForce Senior Member • Posts: 1,263
Re: The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)

Arn wrote:

NewForce wrote:

arbuz wrote:

Now, the Samsung 10mm has it's quirks - because it's so thin (26mm long), you have to be careful not to get the fingers of your right hand in the frame!

I second that. My first walk with samsung fisheye (also on NX20 body) resulted in half of the pictures having finger in down right corner.

Hmm.. odd enough. With 100% EVF, both of you didn't see that coming?

I have no similae problem with NX300 100% liveview AMOLED screen. The only time I had similar problem was with those less than 100% OVF camera models.

I think it's obvious, really. You're not used to shooting with fisheye lenses that are 6-7 times larger than the Samsung. And probably you haven't spent the last 10 years shooting with cameras that have enormous grips. Usually even with fisheyes (on SLRs), you can have the largest hands in the world and there's no worry of your hand protruding into the frame. So it was just something I wasn't expecting I don't usually pay that much attention to the very corners of the image while shooting.

Haha... yupp, I'm not used to a fisheye lens FOV in whatever format from Medium Format to 35mm SLR, DSLR (no, no M43 for me) for my last 30 years of shooting.

Btw, since you've now having this wonderful Sammy 10 mm fisheye, pay extra attention please!

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Kenny

mathOS Regular Member • Posts: 232
Re: The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)

Thanks for your review !

I'm looking forward to seeing more of your pictures with lens lens because the two you've posted show that you know how to get the most out of a fisheye lens in a subtle way.

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Arn
OP Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,582
part #2. Perspective corrections and software
5

Hello there. A few more shots, some text into this topic and a few software tips for a change. I've come to see that the lens works pretty darn well for landscape shots too, even though I like fisheyes even more for interiors. This image turned out to be razor sharp. Lightroom corrected easily some purple fringing from the branches against the sky.

10/3.5, Fisheye hemi

That image was also corrected with a program called Fisheye Hemi. Compared to standard rectilinear correction, the Fisheye-hemi uses a different remapping method for fisheye images - it preserves more of the original composition and retains more pixels (crops a lot less from the original), preserves perspective of the original image, but achieves to straighten vertical lines. Hemi doesn't work as well for exterior architectural shots, but works better when photographing people, etc. Fisheye-Hemi plugin can be found here: http://www.imagetrendsinc.com/products/prodpage_hemi.asp

Rectilinear corrections can be done simply with Lightroom (or Photoshop), but also with many other programs like the free PTlens (which can be also be used to remove barrel/pichushion distortion from calibrated lenses, CA, vigneting, etc). PTlens home page: http://epaperpress.com/ptlens

The fish seems to work well for creating panoramas and planetoids. Basically, due to the ultra-wide nature of fish shots, you should be able to achieve the creation of a planetoid with minimum amount of shots compared to other lenses. Not every program supports stitching of fisheye shots into panoramas though - it may be easier to stitch regular wide angle images. Here I really wish that the NX20 and 10/3.5 fish had some kind of proper Manual Focus function. Damn you Samsung! Stop restricting photographers and start implementing all the neccessary features into the cameras. It makes creating panoramas so much easier, when you can preset the focus distance and fire away. This could be available as a "virtual distance scale" in camera, presenting the focus distance in meters (or feet/yards for some folks).

27 shots stitched into a panorama and then turned into a planetoid. NX20+10/3.5

a quick test with 9 shots stitched into a panorama and turned into a planet projection. NX20+10/3.5

Fisheye panorama stitching can be done with many programs, one of which is the free-of-charge Hugin: http://hugin.sourceforge.net/ . To name a few commercial programs that I know of (that support fish and have automatic stitching features): Kolor Autopano: http://www.kolor.com/ and Panorama plus x4: http://www.serif.com/panoramaplus/

As a general reference to what you can do with a fisheye lens, I present the following images from a Canon mount Sigma 10/2.8 fish:

Note the undistorted (though slightly annoyed) person (yeah, who wouldn't want to eat his lunch in peace?). If shot with a rectilinear ultra-wide lens, that guy would be smeared into 2x width. This image is uncorrected for distortion, but a Hemi correction would also work here and would be much better than a rectilinear image.

Here's a few examples of correction for fisheye shots:

Fisheye hemi can work very well for interior architectural shots even with no people. This place is a vast dome ceiling structure which appears much more natural in pictures with a fisheye than an ultra-wide lens.

a comparison with uncorrected, Hemi corrected and rectilinearly corrected (PTlens). As you can see, exterior architecture shots usually work best when corrected into rectilinear form.

And last, rectilinear correction and crop, which works here better to preserve the dimensions of the architecture than the Hemi-correction would. For shots with main interest on people, I wouldn't hesitate to use Hemi.

Boscolo New York Cafe in Budapest.

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giliath Regular Member • Posts: 257
Re: The little fish (NX 10mm f/3.5)

Nice shots! Professional fisheye photographer:-D. I hope 10mm can be a little bit cheaper in the future.

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nx200USER1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,097
Re: part #2. Perspective corrections and software

absolutely fascinating. Love the demonstration and your achievements.

Arn
OP Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,582
it was a sunny day (pic)
2

11 shots stitched into a panorama in a planetoid projection

http://500px.com/photo/51916232

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nx200USER1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,097
Re: it was a sunny day (pic)

does Microsoft ICE do that kind of projection?

It really is a small world.

Arn
OP Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,582
Re: MS ICE

nx200USER1 wrote:

does Microsoft ICE do that kind of projection?

I haven't tried it but based on the product's website, looks like it doesn't do stereographic (planetoid) projections. Othen than that, the ICE looks interesting. Could work well for other type of panoramas.

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Faith Yeung Contributing Member • Posts: 521
Re: part #2. Perspective corrections and software

Arn wrote:

Hello there. A few more shots, some text into this topic and a few software tips for a change. I've come to see that the lens works pretty darn well for landscape shots too, even though I like fisheyes even more for interiors. This image turned out to be razor sharp. Lightroom corrected easily some purple fringing from the branches against the sky.

10/3.5, Fisheye hemi

That image was also corrected with a program called Fisheye Hemi. Compared to standard rectilinear correction, the Fisheye-hemi uses a different remapping method for fisheye images - it preserves more of the original composition and retains more pixels (crops a lot less from the original), preserves perspective of the original image, but achieves to straighten vertical lines. Hemi doesn't work as well for exterior architectural shots, but works better when photographing people, etc. Fisheye-Hemi plugin can be found here: http://www.imagetrendsinc.com/products/prodpage_hemi.asp

Rectilinear corrections can be done simply with Lightroom (or Photoshop), but also with many other programs like the free PTlens (which can be also be used to remove barrel/pichushion distortion from calibrated lenses, CA, vigneting, etc). PTlens home page: http://epaperpress.com/ptlens

The fish seems to work well for creating panoramas and planetoids. Basically, due to the ultra-wide nature of fish shots, you should be able to achieve the creation of a planetoid with minimum amount of shots compared to other lenses. Not every program supports stitching of fisheye shots into panoramas though - it may be easier to stitch regular wide angle images. Here I really wish that the NX20 and 10/3.5 fish had some kind of proper Manual Focus function. Damn you Samsung! Stop restricting photographers and start implementing all the neccessary features into the cameras. It makes creating panoramas so much easier, when you can preset the focus distance and fire away. This could be available as a "virtual distance scale" in camera, presenting the focus distance in meters (or feet/yards for some folks).

27 shots stitched into a panorama and then turned into a planetoid. NX20+10/3.5

a quick test with 9 shots stitched into a panorama and turned into a planet projection. NX20+10/3.5

Fisheye panorama stitching can be done with many programs, one of which is the free-of-charge Hugin: http://hugin.sourceforge.net/ . To name a few commercial programs that I know of (that support fish and have automatic stitching features): Kolor Autopano: http://www.kolor.com/ and Panorama plus x4: http://www.serif.com/panoramaplus/

As a general reference to what you can do with a fisheye lens, I present the following images from a Canon mount Sigma 10/2.8 fish:

Note the undistorted (though slightly annoyed) person (yeah, who wouldn't want to eat his lunch in peace?). If shot with a rectilinear ultra-wide lens, that guy would be smeared into 2x width. This image is uncorrected for distortion, but a Hemi correction would also work here and would be much better than a rectilinear image.

Here's a few examples of correction for fisheye shots:

Fisheye hemi can work very well for interior architectural shots even with no people. This place is a vast dome ceiling structure which appears much more natural in pictures with a fisheye than an ultra-wide lens.

a comparison with uncorrected, Hemi corrected and rectilinearly corrected (PTlens). As you can see, exterior architecture shots usually work best when corrected into rectilinear form.

And last, rectilinear correction and crop, which works here better to preserve the dimensions of the architecture than the Hemi-correction would. For shots with main interest on people, I wouldn't hesitate to use Hemi.

Boscolo New York Cafe in Budapest.

Nice sharing

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eile New Member • Posts: 2
Lightroom Lens Profile
2

I just created a lens correction profile for the 10mm f/3.5. Drop this into ~/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/LensProfiles/1.0: http://equalizergraphics.com/downloads/Samsung%2010mm.lcp

Arn
OP Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,582
Re: Lightroom Lens Profile

eile wrote:

I just created a lens correction profile for the 10mm f/3.5. Drop this into ~/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/LensProfiles/1.0: http://equalizergraphics.com/downloads/Samsung%2010mm.lcp

Thanks!

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Arn
OP Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,582
10/3.5 vs (10)12-24 (angle of view, distortion, corrections)

here the Fisheye hemi doesn't produce a complitely natural looking image. Note the tremendous difference in angle of view vs the wide angle lens.

As you can see, the fish gives quite a bit more angle of view than the 12-24 at it's widest setting. Often, when using Fisheye hemi, even a distorted image can be rendered quite natural

comparison to Canon 10-22 @ 10mm, note that there was some time difference between shots, so the sky and reflections are different. Of course, here you can see the benefit of using a polarising filter with a wide angle lens (the transparency of the water)

a larger fisheye version of the shot

I don't have interior comparison shots right now. There the fisheye would in many cases shine in comparison to the wide angle lens. I will post interior comparison shots in the future, when I get suitable samples for both lenses.

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tecnoworld
tecnoworld Veteran Member • Posts: 7,206
Re: 10/3.5 vs (10)12-24 (angle of view, distortion, corrections)

Very interesting, thx. This definitely points me towards the small fish I think it could be my next lens. I just need to find it at an affordable price, now.

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Fuzzfuzz
Fuzzfuzz Forum Member • Posts: 89
Re: 10/3.5 vs (10)12-24 (angle of view, distortion, corrections)

amazing pictures!
i have a question for you, How is the sharpness between the 12-24 and defished 10mm?

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