I posted all my pics between 1/80th and 1/200th from the E-P5 here (29 images = big post)

Started Oct 5, 2013 | Discussions
The Photo Ninja Senior Member • Posts: 2,242
I posted all my pics between 1/80th and 1/200th from the E-P5 here (29 images = big post)

I took the photos right into lightroom, no edits, 300 dpi, and max of 6MB size. No sharpening or noise reduction.

Maybe I'm just lucky there's no shutter shock. BTW, I owned an E-PL5 for a week or so, and didn't see it there either. I'm not saying it's not real, just that I've been lucky.

ASR45
ASR45 Forum Pro • Posts: 36,569
Re: I posted all my pics between 1/80th and 1/200th from the E-P5 here (29 images = big post)

So many pictures, i thought the rules only allowed 10, any way they are nice and clean, i  like the labrador shots, being an owner myself such lovely dogs.  

-
Alan.
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain

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gotompoes Regular Member • Posts: 498
Re: I posted all my pics between 1/80th and 1/200th from the E-P5 here (29 images = big post)
2

Lovely family pictures but they show a degree a softness that i have seen in my own pictures.
It might be the lens.

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OP The Photo Ninja Senior Member • Posts: 2,242
like I said...

no sharpening applied. Also, check out the aperture on the exif data.

jalywol
jalywol Veteran Member • Posts: 8,825
Re: I posted all my pics between 1/80th and 1/200th from the E-P5 here (29 images = big post)
4

The Photo Ninja wrote:

I took the photos right into lightroom, no edits, 300 dpi, and max of 6MB size. No sharpening or noise reduction.

Maybe I'm just lucky there's no shutter shock. BTW, I owned an E-PL5 for a week or so, and didn't see it there either. I'm not saying it's not real, just that I've been lucky.

You can see it on these two.  If you look at the steps behind the petunias, right in the middle of the photos, you can see the double image on the horizontal lines of the steps and of the railing.

On this one, you can see it on the nostril of the sculpture; again on the straight edges of the metal.

Also, were you using IBIS?  These all were much less sharp than I would have expected them to be, overall.  I gave up on IBIS in this shutter speed range, and I find my photos are considerably sharper with it off than with IBIS on (on the EPM2) at any speeds above about 1/60.  So, I only use it if I am in very low light situations where the shutter speed is quite slow....and it does work fine then.  Just not in 1/80- 1/200-ish range for me.

-J

Paul De Bra
Paul De Bra Forum Pro • Posts: 12,386
I don't see it. Maybe when enlarged more?

For some reason I cannot view the images in "original" size, only small, medium, large and then I cannot see the blurring.

So if there is any blurring it is very little. Shutter shock is not just the camera but depends on the combination of camera+lens to get the right resonance of the vibration. Maybe the OP got lucky. It doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist as enough people including dpreview reviewers have demonstrated that it can be very real.

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jalywol
jalywol Veteran Member • Posts: 8,825
Re: I don't see it. Maybe when enlarged more?
1

Paul De Bra wrote:

For some reason I cannot view the images in "original" size, only small, medium, large and then I cannot see the blurring.

So if there is any blurring it is very little. Shutter shock is not just the camera but depends on the combination of camera+lens to get the right resonance of the vibration. Maybe the OP got lucky. It doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist as enough people including dpreview reviewers have demonstrated that it can be very real.

If you click on the photos on this page (NOT in the OP's gallery), it will bring up a pop-up of the image with a choice to view at 100% (button at the top left of the pop-up).  Click that, and you can see it at 100%, and the blurring/doubling will be visible.

-J

Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 27,680
Seeing the shock......
3

Yep, Janet, I see exactly the same. That's shutter shock double imaging for sure....

When you get IBIS blur it becomes like an overall softening that could be due to lens or slight misfocus, this is just plain double image shutter shock.

Regards...... Guy

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BonoBox Regular Member • Posts: 136
Re: I posted all my pics between 1/80th and 1/200th from the E-P5 here (29 images = big post)
1

i'm not an expert and i'm investigating this issue as well on my em-5.

the bad thing is that is so negligible effect that i'm quite sure a lot of time is present but we just think the blur is due to other factors....and this is the thing that's annoying me more.

Kameraphil Regular Member • Posts: 445
Re: Seeing the shock......

Guy Parsons wrote:

Yep, Janet, I see exactly the same. That's shutter shock double imaging for sure....

When you get IBIS blur it becomes like an overall softening that could be due to lens or slight misfocus, this is just plain double image shutter shock.

Regards...... Guy

No matter which camera but at relatively low shutter speeds, I'm capable of producing photos with this degree of blurring.

gorred
gorred Senior Member • Posts: 1,201
Re: I posted all my pics between 1/80th and 1/200th from the E-P5 here (29 images = big post)

Really nice pictures. But too many in one post. Did I understand you right in this no editing in Lr; no tweaking with contrast or colour, or shadows/highlights etc? Some of the pictures would be even better with a little more postprocessing.

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Paul De Bra
Paul De Bra Forum Pro • Posts: 12,386
Thanks for the tip. Now I see it.

I would say the galleries are seriously broken. A picture should either not be accessible at 100% or accessible at 100% through the gallery page. But alas that is not an m43 issue.

I see the blur in the images now. This is not good. I guess with the E-P5 it is necessary to enable 1/8s anti-shock just like on the E-M5.

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 27,680
Re: Seeing the shock......
5

Kameraphil wrote:

No matter which camera but at relatively low shutter speeds, I'm capable of producing photos with this degree of blurring.

It was 1/100 at 17mm, so 3 times faster than the minimum recommended speed with no stabilisation so should have been perfectly OK, except that is has shutter shake evident.

Regards...... Guy

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BonoBox Regular Member • Posts: 136
Re: Thanks for the tip. Now I see it.

Paul De Bra wrote:

I would say the galleries are seriously broken. A picture should either not be accessible at 100% or accessible at 100% through the gallery page. But alas that is not an m43 issue.

I see the blur in the images now. This is not good. I guess with the E-P5 it is necessary to enable 1/8s anti-shock just like on the E-M5.

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Slowly learning to use the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.

from what i read in previous topic anti-shock doesn't help because the problem is not the shutter button but the shutter mechanism that moves the curtains

Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 27,680
Re: Thanks for the tip. Now I see it.

BonoBox wrote:

Paul De Bra wrote:

I would say the galleries are seriously broken. A picture should either not be accessible at 100% or accessible at 100% through the gallery page. But alas that is not an m43 issue.

I see the blur in the images now. This is not good. I guess with the E-P5 it is necessary to enable 1/8s anti-shock just like on the E-M5.

-- hide signature --

Slowly learning to use the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.

from what i read in previous topic anti-shock doesn't help because the problem is not the shutter button but the shutter mechanism that moves the curtains

The main problem seems to be caused by the shutter closure after-shock vibrations as it slams shut just before the shutter runs for the exposure. So anti-shock delay of appropriate duration does help. Some say 1/8 second helps but from extensive testing by Anders  (from memory) it seems that a painful 2 seconds was needed to eliminate the shutter closure shock properly.

Regards..... Guy

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OP The Photo Ninja Senior Member • Posts: 2,242
I didn't post process these because I didn't want to be accused of doctoring
1

up the blur.  Of course I have post processed these for my own personal use, but that would defeat the purpose here.

Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,466
Re: Thanks for the tip. Now I see it.
1

BonoBox wrote:

Paul De Bra wrote:

I would say the galleries are seriously broken. A picture should either not be accessible at 100% or accessible at 100% through the gallery page. But alas that is not an m43 issue.

I see the blur in the images now. This is not good. I guess with the E-P5 it is necessary to enable 1/8s anti-shock just like on the E-M5.

-- hide signature --

Slowly learning to use the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.

from what i read in previous topic anti-shock doesn't help because the problem is not the shutter button but the shutter mechanism that moves the curtains

The mechanism is the movement of the shutter blades, not the movement of the shutter button and this is in all likelihood no less true for the E-P5 than for other MFT cams. The tests performed by DPR in the E-P5 review do not prove the contrary.

However, that fact does not prevent the 1/8 s anti-shock delay from helping at least some people. What this setting does is to introduce a delay between the first phase of shutter action (shutter closing to end live-view and prepare the sensor for exposure) and subsequent phases (shutter opening for exposure, shutter closing to end exposure and start read-out, shutter opening again to continue live view). That delay prevents that first phase from causing blur.

One problem, however, is that the first phase of shutter action is not the only one that might cause blur. Subsequent shutter action contributes as well. The anti-shock delay is therefore but a partial help in my experience.

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Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,466
Re: Thanks for the tip. Now I see it.

Guy Parsons wrote:

BonoBox wrote:

Paul De Bra wrote:

I would say the galleries are seriously broken. A picture should either not be accessible at 100% or accessible at 100% through the gallery page. But alas that is not an m43 issue.

I see the blur in the images now. This is not good. I guess with the E-P5 it is necessary to enable 1/8s anti-shock just like on the E-M5.

-- hide signature --

Slowly learning to use the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.

from what i read in previous topic anti-shock doesn't help because the problem is not the shutter button but the shutter mechanism that moves the curtains

The main problem seems to be caused by the shutter closure after-shock vibrations as it slams shut just before the shutter runs for the exposure. So anti-shock delay of appropriate duration does help. Some say 1/8 second helps but from extensive testing by Anders (from memory) it seems that a painful 2 seconds was needed to eliminate the shutter closure shock properly.

Hi Guy,

I don't think I ever tested that particular factor rigorously enough to be sure. But I do think that 1/8 s is long enough to help at least some people significantly and has the benefit over longer delays of not making the shutter delay unduly long, which increases the risk that you miss the right moment.

In my personal case, I haven't found that anti-shock helps a whole lot regardless of how long I make the delay. Apparently, I manage to hold the camera such that it's pretty much only the later phases of shutter action that cause problems in my case. But with other holding techniques than mine, anti-shock may nevertheless help significantly.

When shooting off a tripod, I always use anti-shock as a replacement for self-release. Both can do the same thing but the anti-shock performs the first phase of shutter action right away (just like preflapping the mirror on an SLR) rather than later and thus eliminates it from the total blur equation. In this case, I'd use at least a two-second delay and a bit more than that if I am shooting with a very long FL.

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Barry Stewart
Barry Stewart Veteran Member • Posts: 8,719
Wouldn't it be nice...

If Oly could let us map out those shutter speeds — just like we map out bad pixels?

In the 80s and 90s, Chrysler was known for its bad automatic transmissions. Engineers seemed to acknowledge their poor design, by including a "limp" mode that allowed you to limp back to the garage when the transmission failed.

Olympus needs to fix the shutter shock problem... or give us a way of limping past those shutter speeds. It's one thing to actively avoid them — but we're not always on top of that, unless we're in manual or 'S' settings, or at crazy-high shutter speeds. 'A' mode users have to be very aware.

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Barry

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Barry Stewart
Barry Stewart Veteran Member • Posts: 8,719
With flash...

Does anyone know if the shutter shock shows itself on shots that are mainly lit by flash?

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Barry

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