Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

Started Oct 4, 2013 | Polls
Red5TX
Red5TX Senior Member • Posts: 1,586
Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
1

Just curious.  Let's say Fuji released the next generation of X-P1 and X-E1 with a choice of sensors and the purchaser could choose Bayer or X-Trans.  Same price.  Which would you select?

POLL
X-Trans
53.9% 90  votes
Bayer with AA filter
13.2% 22  votes
Bayer w/o AA filter
32.9% 55  votes
  Show results
Stujomo
Stujomo Senior Member • Posts: 1,429
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
10

To be honest I would be more interested in the overall performance of the camera body itself. How good is the AF, how fast how accurate, How much will the view finder annoy me, How is the button layout, How big will the body be and can I operate it with ease, How are the card write times, Price? To be honest sensors are so good in cameras these days that they are the least of my worries.

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slowhand73
slowhand73 Regular Member • Posts: 166
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

I couldn't agree more. Sensors today do much better than film is almost (not to say all) situations.

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NTNphoto Regular Member • Posts: 236
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
6

Honestly after using the X-E1 since December...a Bayer sensor. Ergonomic wise I love the camera. I like using it, the build quality, the options for adapting other lenses, but I have come to the opinion that I really and truly do not enjoy working with X trans raw files. Bayer files are easier and cleaner to work with. Yes I can use something other than Photoshop or Lightroom to edit, but my entire Nikon workflow is routed through those programs and the x trans fuji is not so good as to change my entire workflow.

I would sell my X-E1 for a Bayer version almost immediately. I don't want a X-A1 because of the cheaper build and no evf.

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mr moonlight Senior Member • Posts: 1,789
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

They are all good sensors, but if I had to choose it would depend on a number of other features. As of now I like the X-trans but it has it's drawbacks. Some of which I think would be solved with a higher resolution sensor. Images look nearly perfect at 67%, but at 100% some very minor issues arise with smearing. A Bayer with an AA filter has those halos and digital sharpening look. Now a Bayer without an AA sounds great but then you have to deal with moire unless you have a very high rez sensor.

If all were 32MP sensors, I'd go with X-trans.

dennis tennis Veteran Member • Posts: 3,783
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

Adorama has shipped my X-A1 so I'll soon have both.  Why does it have to be one or the other?

If you own black dress shoes, you can't own brown dress shoes?

Red5TX
OP Red5TX Senior Member • Posts: 1,586
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

dennis tennis wrote:

Adorama has shipped my X-A1 so I'll soon have both. Why does it have to be one or the other?

If you own black dress shoes, you can't own brown dress shoes?

Not with an EVF, no.

NTNphoto Regular Member • Posts: 236
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
1

To be honest I'm keeping an eye on things over at sony. Rumor has it their 24mp mirror less FF is going to be in the 1600 ballpark. If I can adapt my Leica lenses to it comfortably I'm selling the X-E1 and my 18-55.

I would imagine that the sensor in the Sony is quite similar to the excellent sony made sensor in my D600 in which case I'm pretty sold on the idea.

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Todd3608 Contributing Member • Posts: 780
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

As long as you shoot RAW...Sony's JPEG engine sucks compared to Fuji.

NTNphoto wrote:

To be honest I'm keeping an eye on things over at sony. Rumor has it their 24mp mirror less FF is going to be in the 1600 ballpark. If I can adapt my Leica lenses to it comfortably I'm selling the X-E1 and my 18-55.

I would imagine that the sensor in the Sony is quite similar to the excellent sony made sensor in my D600 in which case I'm pretty sold on the idea.

inasir1971
inasir1971 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,611
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
2

We now have two models which are the same down to the sensor only differing in the CFA - the X-M1 and the X-A1. The differing opinions on the various threads here as to which images are superior to me show that they are close - i.e. X-trans isn't superior.

If I put the various raw samples through my normal workflow (Lightroom/ACR), the X-A1 ends up better. So for me, Bayer is better and I would happily pay the same as the X-trans version for an AA filter-less Bayer version.

I am surprised at the voting for AA filtered Bayer - as of when I voted, 13 for X-trans, 7 for Bayer with AA filter, and 4 without.

AA filters for some time have been so weak that they do not prevent moire, they only reduce the intensity not the frequency of occurrence. For a time I had both the D800 & D800E and where one would show moire so would the other - sold the D800. If the AA filter isn't going to stop moire, why blur the image which will later require greater sharpening to overcome?

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dengx Senior Member • Posts: 1,026
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
3

Red5TX wrote:

Just curious. Let's say Fuji released the next generation of X-P1 and X-E1 with a choice of sensors and the purchaser could choose Bayer or X-Trans. Same price. Which would you select?

I don't care if it's bayer, x-trans, foveoin or voodoo magic as long as I like the result images.

Regards

Jim Evidon
Jim Evidon Contributing Member • Posts: 951
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

It depends on the camera and it's features. I bought the Fuji XPro-1, not based on the sensor design alone. But I would not give up either my Leica M8, nor my Olympus E-M5. Both Bayer and XTrans designs produce excellent images and each sensor design had it's own characteristics. To be really fair, you have to throw the Sigma Foveon sensor into the mix as well since it too produces wonderful images. And to be really fair, all three have it's detractors as well.
Jim

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Wheatfield
Wheatfield Veteran Member • Posts: 6,297
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

The OP forgot one option, that being "couldn't give a damn". The type of sensor array isn't on my list of what I look for in a camera at all.

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Red5TX
OP Red5TX Senior Member • Posts: 1,586
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

Wheatfield wrote:

The OP forgot one option, that being "couldn't give a damn". The type of sensor array isn't on my list of what I look for in a camera at all.

Wheatfield will just take whichever version Fuji happens to ship him.

(Please take this for the lighthearted ribbing it's intended to be.)

glacierpete Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

I prefer x-trans with PhotoNinja or C1. Cleaner and more detailed IMHO. Never had any chroma smearing.

But the next generation of Fuji sensors will be an organic sensor currently developed by Fuji and Panasonic. Fuji already officially published this via press release.

What body will be the first one with the new sensor? It might be the x-p2. We will see

http://petapixel.com/2013/06/11/fuji-and-panasonics-new-organic-sensor-boasts-insane-14-6-stops-dynamic-range/

NTNphoto Regular Member • Posts: 236
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
3

As long as you shoot RAW...Sony's JPEG engine sucks compared to Fuji.

NTNphoto wrote:

To be honest I'm keeping an eye on things over at sony. Rumor has it their 24mp mirror less FF is going to be in the 1600 ballpark. If I can adapt my Leica lenses to it comfortably I'm selling the X-E1 and my 18-55.

I would imagine that the sensor in the Sony is quite similar to the excellent sony made sensor in my D600 in which case I'm pretty sold on the idea.

Ah yes I shoot mostly RAW which is why I have issues with the x trans. I will definitely agree that Fuji's jpeg engine is just about the best I've seen really. I guess what I would like to see is a Bayer fuji with the same jpeg engine so it would be the best of both worlds.

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deednets Veteran Member • Posts: 7,267
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
1

NTNphoto wrote:

Honestly after using the X-E1 since December...a Bayer sensor. Ergonomic wise I love the camera. I like using it, the build quality, the options for adapting other lenses, but I have come to the opinion that I really and truly do not enjoy working with X trans raw files. Bayer files are easier and cleaner to work with. Yes I can use something other than Photoshop or Lightroom to edit, but my entire Nikon workflow is routed through those programs and the x trans fuji is not so good as to change my entire workflow.

I would sell my X-E1 for a Bayer version almost immediately. I don't want a X-A1 because of the cheaper build and no evf.

Well, this only shows you how different people's opinions can be??? I have used Nikons and Canon cameras, the last ones D300s, D800 and the 5DMKII. When I switched to the Fuji, I thought initially to just use the camera for travel, but the files when opened were like I had removed the veil from the lens, there was a clarity, that I still find unbelievable, my initial idea was that this was probably due to the X-Trans Sensor ... Have compared the Fuji files lately to the Canon 6D and still find the Fuji would be my preference!

But! I see you use Lightroom, I use Capture One 7 Pro ... would have been nicer if the sensors algorithms were more universally useable, but maybe that's part of what I like about it!

... crop from a photo taken last week, have a look at 100% obviously not to your liking, but I personally find that the files are amongst the cleanest I have on my computer ... just my opinion ok, I like the skin tones and the sharpness level:

Cheers

Deed

LaFonte Senior Member • Posts: 2,776
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
1

mr moonlight wrote:

A Bayer with an AA filter has those halos and digital sharpening look.

Not necessary true for many advanced modern cameras. While you can see the softening and then re-sharpening in many small sensor PS, the modern APSC are far from that.

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LaFonte Senior Member • Posts: 2,776
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer
1

NTNphoto wrote:

As long as you shoot RAW...Sony's JPEG engine sucks compared to Fuji.

NTNphoto wrote:

To be honest I'm keeping an eye on things over at sony. Rumor has it their 24mp mirror less FF is going to be in the 1600 ballpark. If I can adapt my Leica lenses to it comfortably I'm selling the X-E1 and my 18-55.

I would imagine that the sensor in the Sony is quite similar to the excellent sony made sensor in my D600 in which case I'm pretty sold on the idea.

Ah yes I shoot mostly RAW which is why I have issues with the x trans. I will definitely agree that Fuji's jpeg engine is just about the best I've seen really. I guess what I would like to see is a Bayer fuji with the same jpeg engine so it would be the best of both worlds.

Sony tested the water with RX1 and grabbed a lot of money from early adopters, now it is time to make improved system and 50% cheaper version for the rest of us.

I primary use fuji and sony now (had been pentax guy, but that ship had sailed) and almost everything on the sony rocks except the lukewarm jpeg processing. Whenever I use sony after fuji I always have the strabge need to check back on the focus because I can't believe it can find the focus that fast in almost any situation. Well, one day fuji will get there as well...

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WT Jones Senior Member • Posts: 2,495
Re: Would you buy X-Trans or Bayer

dengx wrote:

I don't care if it's bayer, x-trans, foveoin or voodoo magic as long as I like the result images.

Although I voted for X-Trans, that pretty much sums up my thoughts. Give me usable system with good IQ. For my needs the X-system is working well.

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Warren

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