Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

Started Oct 1, 2013 | Discussions
DocDerm Regular Member • Posts: 376
Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
1

I have become confused whether the:

a) New sensor

b) Lack of anti-aliasing / low pass filter

actually result in better images.

Lots of sites point out these seemingly meaningful advances......but I do not seem to be finding images from one versus the other camera....using the same lens micro 4/3 lens....that tell us whether the camera bodies result in different quality images.

Can anyone shine light on this question?

Thanks

DonSantos Senior Member • Posts: 1,145
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

DocDerm wrote:

I have become confused whether the:

a) New sensor

b) Lack of anti-aliasing / low pass filter

actually result in better images.

Lots of sites point out these seemingly meaningful advances......but I do not seem to be finding images from one versus the other camera....using the same lens micro 4/3 lens....that tell us whether the camera bodies result in different quality images.

Can anyone shine light on this question?

Thanks

According to the dpreview raw test low iso em-5 looks sharper but super high iso em-1 take a small lead

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OP DocDerm Regular Member • Posts: 376
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
2

Is it puzzling that the E-M5 at low iso would be sharper when the E-M1 does not have an anti-aliasing filter?

Thanks

pdelux Contributing Member • Posts: 823
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
1

I think they were shot with different lenses, em5 with the 50mm F2 and the EM1 with the 45mm.

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broody Contributing Member • Posts: 674
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
4

Some bloggers like Ming Thein reported the EM-1 could perform at 1 stop ISO advantage over the EM-5. What they forgot to mention is that this is for JPEG files ONLY.

Indeed, the EM-1 has a visibly improved JPEG engine over the last generation and the competition, and it does yield nicer images in high ISO settings. However this does not apply to RAW at all. The EM-1 is tied with the OM-D EM-5 and the GX7 for RAW captures. Just look at DPreview's own test charts. The EPL-5 even seems to beat it in high ISO detail.

Let's keep it honest, guys. the EM1 was massively hyped by review after review comparing it to Full Frame cameras. But at the end of the day, it's the same Sony sensor we know and are used to, same DR, same ISO sensitivity, sure it also has PDAF, no AA filter and better JPEGs but that's it.

I recommend you guys take a look at this comparison. It will either make you feel great you don't pack an APS-C body, or bad you don't have a D600. http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2013/09/battle-of-aps-c-and-m43-latest.html

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Ulric Veteran Member • Posts: 4,534
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
1

DocDerm wrote:

I have become confused whether the:

a) New sensor

b) Lack of anti-aliasing / low pass filter

actually result in better images.

Lots of sites point out these seemingly meaningful advances......but I do not seem to be finding images from one versus the other camera....using the same lens micro 4/3 lens....that tell us whether the camera bodies result in different quality images.

Can anyone shine light on this question?

Thanks

According to the dpreview raw test low iso em-5 looks sharper but super high iso em-1 take a small lead

Considering the reports that the Dpreview test shots may have been plagued by shutter-shock, I don't think it is meaningful to use them to compare sharpness.
My impression is that the E-M1 performs on par with the E-M5 and other recent Olympus cameras. The improvements are in other areas.

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Acrill
Acrill Veteran Member • Posts: 3,029
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
7

It has a new jpeg engine but I think overall image quality is very similar between the two cameras.

An upgrade in IQ is not the point of the E-M1. it is all about the focusing system, ergonomics and customizability.

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Donald Chin
Donald Chin Veteran Member • Posts: 5,757
Ming Thein had up-dated his review regarding raw. (n/t)
1
ASR45
ASR45 Forum Pro • Posts: 36,791
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

Acrill wrote:

It has a new jpeg engine but I think overall image quality is very similar between the two cameras.

An upgrade in IQ is not the point of the E-M1. it is all about the focusing system, ergonomics and customizability.

Agree, but what i have seen thus far, has been impressive.  

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Abrak Veteran Member • Posts: 4,128
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

broody wrote:

Some bloggers like Ming Thein reported the EM-1 could perform at 1 stop ISO advantage over the EM-5. What they forgot to mention is that this is for JPEG files ONLY.

Indeed, the EM-1 has a visibly improved JPEG engine over the last generation and the competition, and it does yield nicer images in high ISO settings. However this does not apply to RAW at all. The EM-1 is tied with the OM-D EM-5 and the GX7 for RAW captures. Just look at DPreview's own test charts. The EPL-5 even seems to beat it in high ISO detail.

Let's keep it honest, guys. the EM1 was massively hyped by review after review comparing it to Full Frame cameras. But at the end of the day, it's the same Sony sensor we know and are used to, same DR, same ISO sensitivity, sure it also has PDAF, no AA filter and better JPEGs but that's it.

I recommend you guys take a look at this comparison. It will either make you feel great you don't pack an APS-C body, or bad you don't have a D600. http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2013/09/battle-of-aps-c-and-m43-latest.html

Actually Ming Thein does claim that the E-M1 has noticeably better IQ even for RAW.

Now that ACR 8.2 has support for the E-M1′s raw files, I’ve gone back through the archive, reprocessed a few and had another look at the overall file quality. Fundamentally, the good news is that none of the observations really change: underlying sensor quality remains excellent, and a small but distinct step up on the E-M5′s sensor. There is a definite gain in edge acuity and ability to resolve fine detail; the high ISO noise improvement is not as pronounced as with the JPEGs, but the red channel especially shows clear signs of improvement in luminance noise, color accuracy and tonal separation. I would estimate the advantage of the newer sensor to be about half a stop up to ISO 1600

I am somewhat skeptical myself but we shall see. Early reviews tend to be pretty enthusiastic with a lot of cameras.

Nemo0815 Contributing Member • Posts: 822
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
4

It's the same sensor design, just with lots of pixels sacrified for PDAF. Not even Olympus claims and there are any improvements in image quality. That is alone coming from some fanboyish review blogs which already die the same for the E-P5 despite exactly the same sensor as E-M5.

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Donald Chin
Donald Chin Veteran Member • Posts: 5,757
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

I don't have E-M5 raw file in hand to compare, you can download my E-M1 sample raw to review yourself.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/pfathz--

Powerdoc Veteran Member • Posts: 3,452
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
1

I did not see any improvement. The lack of AA filter does not seem to increase sharpness : with great primes, it's still very good.

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hinting Contributing Member • Posts: 750
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
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Tony Rogers Senior Member • Posts: 1,342
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

broody wrote:

Some bloggers like Ming Thein reported the EM-1 could perform at 1 stop ISO advantage over the EM-5. What they forgot to mention is that this is for JPEG files ONLY.

Indeed, the EM-1 has a visibly improved JPEG engine over the last generation and the competition, and it does yield nicer images in high ISO settings. However this does not apply to RAW at all. The EM-1 is tied with the OM-D EM-5 and the GX7 for RAW captures. Just look at DPreview's own test charts. The EPL-5 even seems to beat it in high ISO detail.

Let's keep it honest, guys. the EM1 was massively hyped by review after review comparing it to Full Frame cameras. But at the end of the day, it's the same Sony sensor we know and are used to, same DR, same ISO sensitivity, sure it also has PDAF, no AA filter and better JPEGs but that's it.

I recommend you guys take a look at this comparison. It will either make you feel great you don't pack an APS-C body, or bad you don't have a D600. http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2013/09/battle-of-aps-c-and-m43-latest.html

Anybody else concerned about how red the E-M1 images are? I'm finding this in the raw files too and so far, haven't found a way to compensate for it.

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Nemo0815 Contributing Member • Posts: 822
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
1

http://cameralabs.com/reviews/Olympus_OMD_EM1/RAW_quality.shtml

See the test above.

THX.

Even though his conclusion is not very accurate, one can easily See that the GX7 has a color noise advantage starting from 6400 and becoming stronger and stronger the higher the ISO goes, while M1 and M5 looking almost identical with maybe a very slight andvantage for the M1. Just look at the darker areas in the comparison shots.

That's in line with most other reviews til now.

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Abrak Veteran Member • Posts: 4,128
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

Tony Rogers wrote:

Anybody else concerned about how red the E-M1 images are? I'm finding this in the raw files too and so far, haven't found a way to compensate for it.

Out of interest what are you using as the RAW converter - Olympus viewer? or LR? I believe that as ACR only has preliminary support for the E-M1, the colors may not be quite right yet.

Tony Rogers Senior Member • Posts: 1,342
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

I'm using CS5. But it seems to me that the colours are similar in the jpegs too and that the E-M1 is very different in colour cast from the E-M5.

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Olymore
Olymore Senior Member • Posts: 1,755
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?
4

If there is so much uncertainty and confusion over whether there are any improvements when shooting test charts then it is probably safe to assume that for practical , real life use you won't see any difference.
There are obviously many other reasons to consider the camera.

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LTZ470
LTZ470 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,926
Re: Are images from the E-m1 actually better than from the E-m5?

broody wrote:

Some bloggers like Ming Thein reported the EM-1 could perform at 1 stop ISO advantage over the EM-5. What they forgot to mention is that this is for JPEG files ONLY.

Indeed, the EM-1 has a visibly improved JPEG engine over the last generation and the competition, and it does yield nicer images in high ISO settings. However this does not apply to RAW at all. The EM-1 is tied with the OM-D EM-5 and the GX7 for RAW captures. Just look at DPreview's own test charts. The EPL-5 even seems to beat it in high ISO detail.

Let's keep it honest, guys. the EM1 was massively hyped by review after review comparing it to Full Frame cameras. But at the end of the day, it's the same Sony sensor we know and are used to, same DR, same ISO sensitivity, sure it also has PDAF, no AA filter and better JPEGs but that's it.

I recommend you guys take a look at this comparison. It will either make you feel great you don't pack an APS-C body, or bad you don't have a D600. http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2013/09/battle-of-aps-c-and-m43-latest.html

Should do just fine, but D600's have been plagued?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3553383

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