Pentax K3 rumor from the plant... shhh...

Started Sep 18, 2013 | Discussions
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Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 25,183
Re: uh oh

Alex Sarbu wrote:

They can change the body and keep the same battery.

No they can't. That's bad karma.

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pixelsmithy Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Pentax K3 rumor from the plant... shhh...

Announcing something in October is probably not "getting it out" in time for Christmas.

Case in point: The Q7 was announced in June and is just finally shipping to the U.S. now. That's 3 months. On the same schedule, an early October announcement isn't getting to the U.S. until after the holidays.

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Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 5,882
Re: uh oh

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

They can change the body and keep the same battery.

No they can't. That's bad karma.

That's why the K-01 wasn't liked by many!

Alex

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Gary Martin Veteran Member • Posts: 3,493
Re: M4/3 Vs FF

JL Salvignol wrote:

What is funny is that the difference between M4/3 and FF seems to be irrelevant to the apologists of M4/3. Perhaps it is too big to be significant?

Yes it's funny, they mock cameras with smaller sensors than theirs (1", for example), and yet bigger sensors have no value. It's as if they have discovered the PERFECT sensor size. In reality, every size has its advantages and disadvantages (the usual tradeoff of size and cost), just like in the days of film, strangely enough.

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Dale108
Dale108 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,352
Re: sooner or later

Hi Dave:

I hope that the little bird that you talked to is correct.  It would have to be a substantial change to make me want to upgrade from the K5IIs.  Even if it is, I will wait until the price lowers and the bugs are worked out.  My K5IIs is having a battery issue after the latest firmware update which makes it harder to enjoy a good piece of equipment.

Dale

Gary Martin Veteran Member • Posts: 3,493
Re: Pentax K3 rumor from the plant... shhh...
1
Yes, your kit is great, but it costs considerably more than a Pentax kit, so it should be great. APS-C is the sweet spot for me, in size, price and crop factor.

Well said. Many point out (often correctly) the deficiencies of a Pentax APS-C system, but for some of us it is the best compromise system: cost, size, performance and image quality all in a certain balance. For the rest of this year at least, my photography budget will be spent on the *making* of photos: travel, gas, photobooks, bags, a new tripod, etc. Continually striving to have every possible incremental improvement in gear has become an expensive and boring waste of my time.

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klavrack Contributing Member • Posts: 547
Re: sooner or later

While we can hope for miracles, I'm assuming the FF sensor will continue to enjoy some low light and DR advantages over ASP-C sensors.  However, there are many shooters who would sacrifice that in favor of speed and AF superiority.

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yudi Regular Member • Posts: 477
Re: uh oh
1

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

They can change the body and keep the same battery.

No they can't. That's bad karma.

That's why the K-01 wasn't liked by many!

Alex

The K01's body design is a complete failure. Has PENTAX got the point, yet? If the K01's body was LX-like, even using a very different (smaller) battery, K01 would have had much better luck to become a successful product. The K01 makes me realize that the pentax management is losing their sense to know where the market is heading. They just hung back, K5ii, K5iis, Q, K01, .... Well, what is the next?

I hope to see a new camera body-design from pentax like sony RX1, olympus OMD, Leica M, ....

If pentax still keeps on hung back, they would be gone soon. BTW, nikon and canon are different, they simple make toooooo much money from China's market.

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Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 5,882
Re: uh oh
2

yudi wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

They can change the body and keep the same battery.

No they can't. That's bad karma.

That's why the K-01 wasn't liked by many!

Alex

The K01's body design is a complete failure. Has PENTAX got the point, yet? If the K01's body was LX-like, even using a very different (smaller) battery, K01 would have had much better luck to become a successful product. The K01 makes me realize that the pentax management is losing their sense to know where the market is heading. They just hung back, K5ii, K5iis, Q, K01, .... Well, what is the next?

I disagree, they were right on the mark with the K-5IIs. And as long as they continue like this, I won't get upset every time they make cameras for people other than me

I hope to see a new camera body-design from pentax like sony RX1, olympus OMD, Leica M, ....

"Like"? Pentax should not try to emulate other camera makers, but find their own way.

If pentax still keeps on hung back, they would be gone soon. BTW, nikon and canon are different, they simple make toooooo much money from China's market.

I hope you're not suggesting that Pentax should go mirrorless... because that's precisely what they should not do at the moment.

Alex

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robbo d
robbo d Senior Member • Posts: 1,932
Re: uh oh
3

yudi wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

They can change the body and keep the same battery.

No they can't. That's bad karma.

That's why the K-01 wasn't liked by many!

Alex

The K01's body design is a complete failure. Has PENTAX got the point, yet? If the K01's body was LX-like, even using a very different (smaller) battery, K01 would have had much better luck to become a successful product. The K01 makes me realize that the pentax management is losing their sense to know where the market is heading. They just hung back, K5ii, K5iis, Q, K01, .... Well, what is the next?

I hope to see a new camera body-design from pentax like sony RX1, olympus OMD, Leica M, ....

If pentax still keeps on hung back, they would be gone soon. BTW, nikon and canon are different, they simple make toooooo much money from China's market.

Wow, what an insightful and helpful comment you make...............??? Are you here just to stir up trouble ??

It doesn't take much imagination to realise the K-01 wasn't a raging success on the world stage, but why would they re- run it in a different color for the Japanese market again...? The K-01 was introduced around the time of the Ricoh takeover and had plenty of positive aspects to it, many who bought it, love it. Was it necessarily a money loss? it was just a body with the same sort of running gear as K5 and using K mount lenses.

The DSLR market is still fairly strong, the Q design has sold well in Japan and reasonably elsewhere and they are continuing to develop it...Ricoh would not have let them release Q7 if it wasn't worth it.

The K5II & s are worthwhile improvements on a very good platform and has sold well also, whilst biding Ricoh time to enter the new product.

"they would be gone soon" ....where do you make this up from ? Where is your facts on figures on Ricoh / Pentax's  financial situation......does being a big company always equate to profit?? Like Nikon and Canon. Is everyone who doesn't sell as many cameras as Nikon and Canon ready for the trash heap??

The new products coming out from  now are the first evidence of Ricoh involvement and I don't see them "hung back", on the contrary, new long lens, new flashes, Q7, awaiting the new DSLR....doesn't seem like "hung back" to me. Its all about development money, budgets and business plans.

Perhaps they consider that 4/3 would need a new lens mount and too much development money? So your hopes, like every other hopeful person wanting something that suits them only doesn't make a good business case.

Maybe a little more thinking and a little less irrational statements ??

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Petroglyph
Petroglyph Senior Member • Posts: 5,222
Re: Pentax K3 rumor from the plant... shhh...

KL Matt wrote:

Hi Dave,

That is compatible with what asahiman said after the "big" announcement in September turned out to be not at all what he had expected to be announced.

I mean, something has to be coming sooner or later. Ricoh shows signs of potentially understanding that getting something new out on the market before the x-mas shopping season is over may actually help their their sales, unlike Hoya who thought it a great idea to launch the k20d in January...

Most Pentax DSLRs have been announced in September.

No they spread it all over the calendar although a lot are announced in September:

K10D   -               Sep, 2006

K100D Super   -   Jun, 2007

K20D   -                Jan, 2008

Km & DA L lenses Sep, 2008 (Photokina)

K7   -                     May, 2009

Kx   -                     Sep, 2009

Kr   -                      Sep, 2010

K5   -                     Oct, 2010

K30   -                    May, 2012

K5II   -                   Sep, 2012

K50, K500   -         Jun. 2013

Looks like if we miss October then we'll be waiting until January.

Cheers

I doubt another year will go by before the replacement is announced, I think there will clearly be a new camera out by the end of the year. And if you're announcing a cam by the end of the year, it's best to get it out in time for x-mas. They're not going to announce anything in December.

Matt

DLBlack wrote:

Ricoh rep was in the local camera store. He was excited about the new high-end aps-c camera that is going to be announced in early Oct.

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... interested in .... photographs? Heh? Know what a mean? Photographs? (He asked him knowingly). Nudge nudge, snap snap, grin grin, wink wink, say no more, say no more, know what a' mean? Know what a' mean?
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britcam
britcam Senior Member • Posts: 2,424
Re: uh oh
2

yudi wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

They can change the body and keep the same battery.

No they can't. That's bad karma.

That's why the K-01 wasn't liked by many!

Alex

The K01's body design is a complete failure. Has PENTAX got the point, yet? If the K01's body was LX-like, even using a very different (smaller) battery, K01 would have had much better luck to become a successful product. The K01 makes me realize that the pentax management is losing their sense to know where the market is heading. They just hung back, K5ii, K5iis, Q, K01, .... Well, what is the next?

I hope to see a new camera body-design from pentax like sony RX1, olympus OMD, Leica M, ....

If pentax still keeps on hung back, they would be gone soon. BTW, nikon and canon are different, they simple make toooooo much money from China's market.

K-01 failure ...? ... have you used one?

Strange ..... I just spent a few hours this evening using the the K-01 with an FA 24-90..

Can't fault the superb IQ nor the ease of handling. To be able to use all my Pentax lenses on this smaller cam is ideal. And I actually love the design, the shape ....

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Kind regards
britcam - Rich S

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ET2 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,066
Re: M4/3 Vs FF
2

Gary Martin wrote:

JL Salvignol wrote:

What is funny is that the difference between M4/3 and FF seems to be irrelevant to the apologists of M4/3. Perhaps it is too big to be significant?

Yes it's funny, they mock cameras with smaller sensors than theirs (1", for example), and yet bigger sensors have no value.

Just as some APSC people mock 4/3 sensor and then claim FF has no value (even though size difference between the two is much bigger, as I showed in the last post).

MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 35,241
Re: Pentax K3 rumor from the plant... shhh...

Petroglyph wrote:

No they spread it all over the calendar although a lot are announced in September:

K10D - Sep, 2006

K100D Super - Jun, 2007

K20D - Jan, 2008

Km & DA L lenses Sep, 2008 (Photokina)

K7 - May, 2009

Kx - Sep, 2009

Kr - Sep, 2010

K5 - Oct, 2010

K30 - May, 2012

K5II - Sep, 2012

K50, K500 - Jun. 2013

Looks like if we miss October then we'll be waiting until January.

Cheers

This shows us

K10D-K20D = 16-17 months

K20D-K-7 = 16 months

K-7-K-5 = 17 months

K-5-K-5II/s = a whopping 23 months (i suppose the Ricoh/Hoya situation delayed things)

Now we're at 12 months so maybe 13 months will make up for the delay when the gap was 23 months

Also

K100D-K-m = 15-16 months (K100D super was in there too)

K-m-K-x = 12 months

K-x-K-r = 12 months

K-r-K-30 = 20 months (same big gap)

K-30-K-50/500 = 13 months

There is a pretty decent trend bar 1 big gap in these lines

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fakuryu
fakuryu OP Senior Member • Posts: 1,328
Re: uh oh
1

yudi wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

They can change the body and keep the same battery.

No they can't. That's bad karma.

That's why the K-01 wasn't liked by many!

Alex

The K01's body design is a complete failure. Has PENTAX got the point, yet? If the K01's body was LX-like, even using a very different (smaller) battery, K01 would have had much better luck to become a successful product. The K01 makes me realize that the pentax management is losing their sense to know where the market is heading. They just hung back, K5ii, K5iis, Q, K01, .... Well, what is the next?

They just hung back made awesome cams like K5ii, K5iis, Q, K01, .... Well, what is the next? - there I edited it for you, I tried all of them and they are awesome cameras.

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MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 35,241
Re: M4/3 Vs FF

ET2 wrote:

Gary Martin wrote:

JL Salvignol wrote:

What is funny is that the difference between M4/3 and FF seems to be irrelevant to the apologists of M4/3. Perhaps it is too big to be significant?

Yes it's funny, they mock cameras with smaller sensors than theirs (1", for example), and yet bigger sensors have no value.

Just as some APSC people mock 4/3 sensor and then claim FF has no value (even though size difference between the two is much bigger, as I showed in the last post).

You can't be blaming everyone for some people actions, just because there are jerks of the forums as you well should know doesn't mean we all are jerks!

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Mike from Canada
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Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 5,882
Re: uh oh

robbo d wrote:

yudi wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

They can change the body and keep the same battery.

No they can't. That's bad karma.

That's why the K-01 wasn't liked by many!

Alex

The K01's body design is a complete failure. Has PENTAX got the point, yet? If the K01's body was LX-like, even using a very different (smaller) battery, K01 would have had much better luck to become a successful product. The K01 makes me realize that the pentax management is losing their sense to know where the market is heading. They just hung back, K5ii, K5iis, Q, K01, .... Well, what is the next?

I hope to see a new camera body-design from pentax like sony RX1, olympus OMD, Leica M, ....

If pentax still keeps on hung back, they would be gone soon. BTW, nikon and canon are different, they simple make toooooo much money from China's market.

Wow, what an insightful and helpful comment you make...............??? Are you here just to stir up trouble ??

It doesn't take much imagination to realise the K-01 wasn't a raging success on the world stage, but why would they re- run it in a different color for the Japanese market again...? The K-01 was introduced around the time of the Ricoh takeover and had plenty of positive aspects to it, many who bought it, love it. Was it necessarily a money loss? it was just a body with the same sort of running gear as K5 and using K mount lenses.

The DSLR market is still fairly strong, the Q design has sold well in Japan and reasonably elsewhere and they are continuing to develop it...Ricoh would not have let them release Q7 if it wasn't worth it.

That's an understatement; the DSLR market is 4.8-5 times larger than the MILCs, and the DSLRs have a higher average value (~21-22%); that's according to the CIPA production/shipments data.

To put things in perspective, to get the same volume of sales Pentax could get either ~5% of the DSLR market, or ~25% of the MILC one. For the same value, it's ~29-30% of the MILC market. A fraction of the DSLR market is equivalent to being a leader on the MILC one.

Of course, neither the DSLRs nor MILCs are at the 2012 levels (which I suspect were artificially inflated), but at about 80% of that.

The K5II & s are worthwhile improvements on a very good platform and has sold well also, whilst biding Ricoh time to enter the new product.

"they would be gone soon" ....where do you make this up from ? Where is your facts on figures on Ricoh / Pentax's financial situation......does being a big company always equate to profit?? Like Nikon and Canon. Is everyone who doesn't sell as many cameras as Nikon and Canon ready for the trash heap??

What is funny is that one of the "models" to be followed - namely Olympus - is in trouble; even needing Sony's financial aid. Yep, their Imaging Systems division is losing money big time, fortunately the medical division is keeping them afloat.

The new products coming out from now are the first evidence of Ricoh involvement and I don't see them "hung back", on the contrary, new long lens, new flashes, Q7, awaiting the new DSLR....doesn't seem like "hung back" to me. Its all about development money, budgets and business plans.

Shutting down my impatience (which is mostly about the lack of information), I would say that attempting to recover all lost ground with a killer-product would be brave, spectacular, but foolish.

No "fix everything at once" solution can possibly work, and certainly not when it's about copying other's products. So it's all about hard work, gaining little by little, competent product after competent product.

Perhaps they consider that 4/3 would need a new lens mount and too much development money? So your hopes, like every other hopeful person wanting something that suits them only doesn't make a good business case.

I'm not sure yudi was talking about going m4/3, but copying the style of those cameras.

Maybe a little more thinking and a little less irrational statements ??

Alex

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dwm2020 Regular Member • Posts: 108
Re: uh oh
1

Yeah, looks like a complete failure to me.

Don't know about others, but I love the K-01. Great IQ, simple easy menu, feature packed, and yes a well built, great looking camera.

Nice Shots.

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Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 25,183
Re: uh oh
1

britcam wrote:

K-01 failure ...? ... have you used one?

He did not seem to be so good at diplomacy, it could have been somewhat nicer voiced.

But, I am quite sure he did not mean technical failure.

It is assumed to be a market failure, at least outside of Japan.

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janneman02 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,732
Re: sooner or later
2

klavrack wrote:

While we can hope for miracles, I'm assuming the FF sensor will continue to enjoy some low light and DR advantages over ASP-C sensors. However, there are many shooters who would sacrifice that in favor of speed and AF superiority.

As many including me have  said before, 75% of all dslr shooters would never have use for the full potential  of a FF sensor for 99,9% of the time, if not  more. Of the other 25% I bet 90% would never have use for FF so that leaves 10% of 25% that may have use for it once in a while.

Speed and AF accuracy wil benefit many more dslr shooters than FF ever would. As for Pentax, the small size and sealing is a premium too. Given the choice between a  rather bulky FF (and FF lenses) and a K-5 sized APS-C,  the smaller kit is more usefull any day of the week.

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