X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

Started Sep 17, 2013 | Discussions
photo perzon
photo perzon Veteran Member • Posts: 4,648
X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

Half of people who have an X100 are afraid of the X-trans of the X100S.  The X-A1 is a small portable m4/3 sized camera that effectively gives a X100 lens options.

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Sulis2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,121
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

Well, in the sense that you could put a 23mm F1.4 lens on it, yes. But that would cost more than the X100S, and no OVF/EVF at all.

There's no indication that it uses the same sensor as the X100 - more likely the same Sony sensor that's in most APC cameras these days.

However, it's clear that Fuji are hoping to bring more people in with this - and those wanting a cheaper second body to go with their X100S, X-Pro or X-E1 are going to have to go with the more expensive X-M1.

Sal18 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,296
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

The M and the A are going to compete with each other, and what exactly distinguishes the A from all the Sonys and Olys out there? And at the entry level, who knows or cares what sensor is inside? THis just seems a strange marketing decision to me.

Sal

Robert Garcia NYC Senior Member • Posts: 2,058
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body
2

Sure the X-A1 and 23 1.4 cost more than the X100s but you have a great lens you keep for further upgrades in Fuji bodies down the line.

xmnut Contributing Member • Posts: 507
Cant be same sensor X100 = 12megs

This camera has 16meg sensor.

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areichow Senior Member • Posts: 1,585
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

Sal18 wrote:

The M and the A are going to compete with each other, and what exactly distinguishes the A from all the Sonys and Olys out there? And at the entry level, who knows or cares what sensor is inside? THis just seems a strange marketing decision to me.

Sal

That's the point- the Bayer sensor is presumably cheaper. Entry level buyers aren't going to care if it has an AA filter or the X-trans color filter.

It seems to make sense to me. They're trying to get some of the lower end part of the market. There are only so many enthusiasts willing to buy the really expensive bodies. I don't know if it it'll work, but I'd say the same for similar moves by mirrorless makes across the board.

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brudy Senior Member • Posts: 1,510
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

I'd be more interested in the A if it lacked an AA filter.

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areichow Senior Member • Posts: 1,585
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

Fortunately for you, there's the X-M1... That's how it works with entry level offerings. If you know enough to want more or want something specific, you pay for it.

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Ed B
Ed B Veteran Member • Posts: 9,185
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

photo perzon wrote:

Half of people who have an X100 are afraid of the X-trans of the X100S. The X-A1 is a small portable m4/3 sized camera that effectively gives a X100 lens options.

The X-A1 will simply be Fuji's new entry level camera (good idea).

It will have the Bayer sensor because these sensors are less expensive than the X-Trans sensors and it seems Fuji has done everything possible to keep the price down on this camera.

I'm sure image quality will be very good and that a lot of people will be happy with the camera.

Lot of talk about AA filter, etc. but I haven't heard whether this camera will have a AA filter or not.

I'd almost bet it does not have the filter because most manufacturers are opting to do away with the filter and not worry about moire. Most modern Bayer sensors seem to handle moire very well without the filter.

Not sure why anyone would be "afraid" of the X-Trans sensor. The only problem that Fuji has ever had with the sensor is the fact that third party raw converters hadn't been updated to play nice with it.

Besides that, Fuji's JPEG engine is so good that raw processing almost becomes an outdated and unnecessary procedure. Even (JPEG) white balance can easily be adjusted with many good post processing programs.

I'll get blasted for saying this but it wouldn't surprise me to see raw either completely go away or become the exception within the next couple of years.

Naturally, my opinion isn't any more valid than anyone's opinion and I suppose if you have a calibrated eye ball you could tell the difference between a well processed raw image and a well processed JPEG but the difference is almost negligible.

I'm sure the new X-A1, with the Bayer sensor, will be rated a bit lower than a camera with the X-Trans sensor but doubt most people who buy the camera will be able to tell the difference and doubt most people will even care.

I think the camera will be a big success (just my opinion again).

The Jacal
The Jacal Senior Member • Posts: 1,273
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

photo perzon wrote:

Half of people who have an X100 are afraid of the X-trans of the X100S. The X-A1 is a small portable m4/3 sized camera that effectively gives a X100 lens options.

I think Fuji made this camera especially for the type of people who like to get the entry level model and criticise it comparing it to the top end models. Main gripes being the 'old' sensor and lack of VF.

I'm sure it's a bit lighter that the XP-1 though.  

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andywhoa Regular Member • Posts: 391
Downvote, downvote, downvote,

When did you decide the X-A1 has the X100's sensor?  Just because it isn't an X-Trans?  That is quite the leap in logic.

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ScottD1964 Senior Member • Posts: 1,856
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

Ed B wrote:

photo perzon wrote:

Half of people who have an X100 are afraid of the X-trans of the X100S. The X-A1 is a small portable m4/3 sized camera that effectively gives a X100 lens options.

The X-A1 will simply be Fuji's new entry level camera (good idea).

It will have the Bayer sensor because these sensors are less expensive than the X-Trans sensors and it seems Fuji has done everything possible to keep the price down on this camera.

I'm sure image quality will be very good and that a lot of people will be happy with the camera.

Lot of talk about AA filter, etc. but I haven't heard whether this camera will have a AA filter or not.

I'd almost bet it does not have the filter because most manufacturers are opting to do away with the filter and not worry about moire. Most modern Bayer sensors seem to handle moire very well without the filter.

Not sure why anyone would be "afraid" of the X-Trans sensor. The only problem that Fuji has ever had with the sensor is the fact that third party raw converters hadn't been updated to play nice with it.

Besides that, Fuji's JPEG engine is so good that raw processing almost becomes an outdated and unnecessary procedure. Even (JPEG) white balance can easily be adjusted with many good post processing programs.

I'll get blasted for saying this but it wouldn't surprise me to see raw either completely go away or become the exception within the next couple of years.

Ed, you could be shot for saying something like this in here.  Heracy! Treason! The only good pixel is a RAW pixel!  There will be an uprising of the living dead, err pixel peeping geeks the likes of which the world has never seen if this happened.  LOL

Naturally, my opinion isn't any more valid than anyone's opinion and I suppose if you have a calibrated eye ball you could tell the difference between a well processed raw image and a well processed JPEG but the difference is almost negligible.

I'm sure the new X-A1, with the Bayer sensor, will be rated a bit lower than a camera with the X-Trans sensor but doubt most people who buy the camera will be able to tell the difference and doubt most people will even care.

I think the camera will be a big success (just my opinion again).

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ScottD1964 Senior Member • Posts: 1,856
Re: Downvote, downvote, downvote,

andywhoa wrote:

When did you decide the X-A1 has the X100's sensor? Just because it isn't an X-Trans? That is quite the leap in logic.

Considering the X100 has a 12MP sensor and the XA-1 a 16MP sensor I'd say that's a big negatory.

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Canadianguy Senior Member • Posts: 1,652
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body
1

I agree that they do compete against each other and it looks like the M & A models have the same sensor. I believe its the same 16 MP Sony sensor used by NEX6 and the X-E1.

They just have a different Colour Array Filter (CFA) in front of the Sony sensor.

So what reason does Fuji make for the price difference? Is the X-Trans CFA that much better? What happens if it turns out the A model doesn't have an AA-filter? Does the whole reason for the X-Trans CFA disappear?

And if you are right that at that entry level - they don't care about the sensor inside - why would someone move up to the M model for the extra money?

Fun times ahead.

Sal18 wrote:

The M and the A are going to compete with each other, and what exactly distinguishes the A from all the Sonys and Olys out there? And at the entry level, who knows or cares what sensor is inside? THis just seems a strange marketing decision to me.

Sal

Randy Benter
Randy Benter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,196
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body
2

Canadianguy wrote:

I agree that they do compete against each other and it looks like the M & A models have the same sensor. I believe its the same 16 MP Sony sensor used by NEX6 and the X-E1.

They just have a different Colour Array Filter (CFA) in front of the Sony sensor.

That's right. Same base sensor in X-Pro1, X-E1, X100s, X-M1, and X-A1. Just different configurations of that sensor: w/wo PDAF, 12 or 14 bit readout, Pseudo-random or Bayer CFA.

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Ed B
Ed B Veteran Member • Posts: 9,185
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

ScottD1964 wrote:

Ed B wrote:

photo perzon wrote:

Half of people who have an X100 are afraid of the X-trans of the X100S. The X-A1 is a small portable m4/3 sized camera that effectively gives a X100 lens options.

The X-A1 will simply be Fuji's new entry level camera (good idea).

It will have the Bayer sensor because these sensors are less expensive than the X-Trans sensors and it seems Fuji has done everything possible to keep the price down on this camera.

I'm sure image quality will be very good and that a lot of people will be happy with the camera.

Lot of talk about AA filter, etc. but I haven't heard whether this camera will have a AA filter or not.

I'd almost bet it does not have the filter because most manufacturers are opting to do away with the filter and not worry about moire. Most modern Bayer sensors seem to handle moire very well without the filter.

Not sure why anyone would be "afraid" of the X-Trans sensor. The only problem that Fuji has ever had with the sensor is the fact that third party raw converters hadn't been updated to play nice with it.

Besides that, Fuji's JPEG engine is so good that raw processing almost becomes an outdated and unnecessary procedure. Even (JPEG) white balance can easily be adjusted with many good post processing programs.

I'll get blasted for saying this but it wouldn't surprise me to see raw either completely go away or become the exception within the next couple of years.

Ed, you could be shot for saying something like this in here. Heracy! Treason! The only good pixel is a RAW pixel! There will be an uprising of the living dead, err pixel peeping geeks the likes of which the world has never seen if this happened. LOL

Naturally, my opinion isn't any more valid than anyone's opinion and I suppose if you have a calibrated eye ball you could tell the difference between a well processed raw image and a well processed JPEG but the difference is almost negligible.

I'm sure the new X-A1, with the Bayer sensor, will be rated a bit lower than a camera with the X-Trans sensor but doubt most people who buy the camera will be able to tell the difference and doubt most people will even care.

I think the camera will be a big success (just my opinion again).

Yes. I think you're right.

To be honest I thought that, by now, I'd have at least ten people telling me I don't know anything about photography.

I'm sure most of the experts are still at school and they'll probably straighten me out, later on tonight, when they finish their homework. (probably regret saying that)

Ed B
Ed B Veteran Member • Posts: 9,185
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body
1

Canadianguy wrote:

I agree that they do compete against each other and it looks like the M & A models have the same sensor. I believe its the same 16 MP Sony sensor used by NEX6 and the X-E1.

They just have a different Colour Array Filter (CFA) in front of the Sony sensor.

I learn something new every day at this forum

Where are you getting your information about sensors?????

Fuji makes their own Trans-X sensor and it's not the same sensor that's in the NEX 6, and it's not a sensor made by Sony.

Now I could be wrong, and all the professional reviewers could be wrong, and the information explaining the difference between the X-Trans sensor and a Bayer sensor may be wrong; so please tell us what makes you think the sensor in the X-E1 is the same sensor that's in the Sony NEX 6.

BillyInya
BillyInya Senior Member • Posts: 1,453
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body
1

Ed B wrote:

Canadianguy wrote:

I agree that they do compete against each other and it looks like the M & A models have the same sensor. I believe its the same 16 MP Sony sensor used by NEX6 and the X-E1.

They just have a different Colour Array Filter (CFA) in front of the Sony sensor.

I learn something new every day at this forum

Where are you getting your information about sensors?????

Fuji makes their own Trans-X sensor and it's not the same sensor that's in the NEX 6, and it's not a sensor made by Sony.

Now I could be wrong, and all the professional reviewers could be wrong, and the information explaining the difference between the X-Trans sensor and a Bayer sensor may be wrong; so please tell us what makes you think the sensor in the X-E1 is the same sensor that's in the Sony NEX 6.

Sony makes the X-Trans sensor? That's like saying Toyota really make Ferrari engines. Well, it's always good to start the day with a good laugh.

But hey, I too am happy to stand corrected. Lets see some evidence, any at all, that the X-Trans sensor is made by Sony.

This question has been dealt with before many times here and there is not a single shred of evidence and we all know why.

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Randy Benter
Randy Benter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,196
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body
3

Ed B wrote:

Canadianguy wrote:

I agree that they do compete against each other and it looks like the M & A models have the same sensor. I believe its the same 16 MP Sony sensor used by NEX6 and the X-E1.

They just have a different Colour Array Filter (CFA) in front of the Sony sensor.

I learn something new every day at this forum

Where are you getting your information about sensors?????

Fuji makes their own Trans-X sensor and it's not the same sensor that's in the NEX 6, and it's not a sensor made by Sony.

Fuji no longer fabricates sensors; they sold their last fab plant to Toshiba a couple years ago. Fuji purchases sensors from other companies. They use the Sony 12MP (same as Nikon D90) for the X-100. They use the Sony 16MP sensor (same as Nikon D7000, NEX-5N and many others) for the X-Pro, X-E1, X100s, X-M1, and X-A1.

Now I could be wrong, and all the professional reviewers could be wrong, and the information explaining the difference between the X-Trans sensor and a Bayer sensor may be wrong; so please tell us what makes you think the sensor in the X-E1 is the same sensor that's in the Sony NEX 6.

I don't recall any professional reviewers saying that Fuji actually fabricates sensors, but they do often talk about the unique X-Trans sensor found in Fuji cameras. The problem is that the terms Bayer sensor and X-Trans sensor are misnomers and this causes confusion. The difference between X-Trans and Bayer lies in the CFA (color filter array) which sits in front of the sensor. The sensor itself is no different between the two.Here is an image that shows a torn down X-Pro and it is easy to see the difference between the 2 pieces (sensor & CFA).

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BillyInya
BillyInya Senior Member • Posts: 1,453
Re: X-A1 = X100 non trans with lenses in a small body

Randy Benter wrote:


Proves absolutely nothing.

Still waiting for evidence....

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