HEY OLYMPUS! I’m irritated as %@&#!!!

Started Sep 14, 2013 | Discussions
(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,348
Re: I'm happy.

3DrJ wrote:

Jeff Tokayer wrote:

.....

I only wish Olympus updates their rebate program to include the HLD-6, instead the MMF-3 and FL-300, which I already own.

I wholeheartedly agree! It should be a campaign, don't need the other items, already have that stuff. The HLD-7 (I'm sure that's what you meant) is the accessory (out of the three) that "pro" photographers will covet.

Doubling battery power, extra buttons/dials, handling bigger lenses, AC->DC adapter are all key features, almost requirements, to be able to use the camera to its full potential. If that isn't what "pro" is about, what is?

Oly missed the boat on that one, even aside from "kit" availability.

$0.05? Or will we say here's my two nickel's worth? Inflation takes a toll...

Jules.

I think the UK rebate program does include the grip as an option.

FrankParis Senior Member • Posts: 1,042
Re: See it like this ...

eques wrote:

buying body and lens separately, will give you the double thrill of anticipation.

Yes! That certainly puts a positive spin on it. You're absolutely correct. Nice way of thinking about things.

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Frank Paris

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brianric Veteran Member • Posts: 7,895
Re: What is that smell????

eques wrote:

brianric wrote:

uberzone wrote:

Who brought the beans and sauerkraut? Serious case of GAS in here. The EM-1 and 12-40 are super exciting editions to m4/3, but can you really not wait a few months to save $200? You do have options. If you really need both NOW, I'm sure someone somewhere will be reselling them fairly quickly at a slight premium. Just think of it as an early adopter tax.

Yes, in a perfect world both Olympus and Panasonic would have massive quantities of all of their new lenses and cameras available all over the world to anyone who wants them. Sadly neither Panasonic or Olympus have the capital or capacity to do so at this time.

Rest assured, the camera and lens as a kit will eventually make it over here. Until then, take a deep breath. It will all be ok.

I don't pay blackmail prices,

Not blackmail - market! Supply - demand, remember?

so I'm not interested in buying a camera from some scum bag trying to make a quick buck. That, and questions on whether Olympus will honor the warranty from a non authorized dealer. As someone who is looking into getting a MF3 setup, I can wait until I can either get the kit, or both separately at the same time. I'm in no hurry to buy.

Peter

We're not talking market supply, just some low level scum bag who reselling a in demand camera. Only a fool would buy a used camera with no warranty at above market prices.

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brianric Veteran Member • Posts: 7,895
Re: Prices and Taxes

rrr_hhh wrote:

Amazon untill recently was only taking taxes from the clients living in the same state. Aka any person buying online could avoid paying any sale taxes provided they were not living in the same state as the online dealer. But that is about to change, or has already changed.

When a foreigner buys from B&H or Amazon, he pays no sale taxes. Not sure whether that has changed with the new way online dealers are treated.

Amazon has to charge a sales tax anyplace where Amazon has a physical presence in the state. New Jersey now gets charges a sales tax because Amazon now has a warehouse in the state. B&H only charges sales tax to New York residences.

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brianric Veteran Member • Posts: 7,895
Re: Prices and Taxes

Optical1 wrote:

Many states are closing the loopholes that have allowed purchases to be made without paying sales tax, but it varies from state to state.


Peter.

And when that happens I drive over the border to sales tax free Delaware and make my purchases there.

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Pete Touhey
Pete Touhey Forum Member • Posts: 87
Re: HEY OLYMPUS! I’m irritated as %@&#!!!

I feel you pain on the no E-M1 kit to the USA.  I'd love to save a few [hundred] bucks on the 12-40mm 2.8 by ordering the kit. I'm heading to NZ for 4 weeks around Christmas, and will wait to order the E-M1 until November. If the kit comes out in the US before I leave I'll order it. If not then my old 14-54mm comes with me to NZ.

I've always loved my pictures using the 14-54, and was heart broken when I tried it on my E-P3 and it  hunted for focus horribly. It looks like performance of my old 4/3 lenses will be more than acceptable on the E-N1.  I might even be happy enough with my 14-54 to wait on the 12-40 until lens rebate time!

Pete

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olynik969 Senior Member • Posts: 1,724
For your consideration....

Given that seldom do people "really" care about our vents on photo issues - and they typically bring on negative more than positive responses, and life is filled with issues far greater than those that flip my switch, I've found that "venting" to my windshield or dash board works really, really well!

Normally large corporations change direction due to only the potential financial implication of not doing so. I'm guessing that the North American "pre-orders" for the E-M1 are very encouraging.... hence, little chance of Oly doing a retroactive change.

Appears to be a really terrific camera - and if no one has yet viewed the comparometer on imaging source, do so - the shots look GREAT! I thought my a77 Jpegs OOC looked great... but the E-M1 eclipses it - easily!

Bob

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Bob (formerly bobmax)

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Bob Meyer Veteran Member • Posts: 5,375
Re: Prices and Taxes

brianric wrote:

Amazon has to charge a sales tax anyplace where Amazon has a physical presence in the state. New Jersey now gets charges a sales tax because Amazon now has a warehouse in the state. B&H only charges sales tax to New York residences.

But that doesn't change the fact that the price listed on the web site does not include tax, which is what the question was.

And for our European friends:  there is no such thing as VAT in the U.S. Most states have sales taxes, but those are applied based on the purchase price, not included in the purchase price.

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,348
Re: Prices and Taxes

Bob Meyer wrote:

brianric wrote:

Amazon has to charge a sales tax anyplace where Amazon has a physical presence in the state. New Jersey now gets charges a sales tax because Amazon now has a warehouse in the state. B&H only charges sales tax to New York residences.

But that doesn't change the fact that the price listed on the web site does not include tax, which is what the question was.

And for our European friends: there is no such thing as VAT in the U.S. Most states have sales taxes, but those are applied based on the purchase price, not included in the purchase price.

It's more or less the same kind of tax idea although you guys have yet to reach the heady heights of 20% tax on sales I think!

It's just that EU governments prefer to not do it the way the US does because that way they delude everyone and they 'forget' that they are being taxed! If you went to the store and they added 20% tax to your bill at the checkout, everyone would complain loudly and politicians would have to have less gravy on their trains..

In NZ the tax is 15% and they charge it on everything - no exemptions, so even your groceries at the market get taxed.

Andrewteee Senior Member • Posts: 2,939
Priorities

Yes, well we all have priorities in life don't we.

My advice is to go out and enjoy taking pictures. I just read the bio of Edward Curtis and towards the end there is a quote about rejection being just fine, because in fact it is the process of taking pictures that is the most rewarding aspect of photography. Just about any camera will do in that regard. I still shoot with an old obscure and now discontinued Rich GRX 50mm, along with the new 28mm GR.

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3DrJ Senior Member • Posts: 1,027
Re: HEY OLYMPUS! I’m irritated as %@&#!!!

Pete Touhey wrote:

I feel you pain on the no E-M1 kit to the USA. I'd love to save a few [hundred] bucks on the 12-40mm 2.8 by ordering the kit. I'm heading to NZ for 4 weeks around Christmas, and will wait to order the E-M1 until November. If the kit comes out in the US before I leave I'll order it. If not then my old 14-54mm comes with me to NZ.

I've always loved my pictures using the 14-54, and was heart broken when I tried it on my E-P3 and it hunted for focus horribly. It looks like performance of my old 4/3 lenses will be more than acceptable on the E-N1. I might even be happy enough with my 14-54 to wait on the 12-40 until lens rebate time!

Pete

That's my plan for now.  Use the 14-54mm, still a pretty sharp and versatile lens, and later consider the 12-40mm.  It isn't available yet in N. America, maybe not till much later so I hear.

I'll be satisfied if the 14-54mm works as well on the E-M1 as on the E-3 or even E-1.  I have low standards I suppose.  But even that much performance will be Good Enough.

The only thing that irks me is NOT having the rebate on the HLD-7 grip.  Already have the MMF3, and don't need the crap flash.  Let's all say it often and loudly enough, and just maybe the marketing fools at Olympus will get the message.

Jules.

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SirSeth
SirSeth Veteran Member • Posts: 9,962
Re: HEY OLYMPUS! I’m irritated as %@&#!!!

I'll have to wait until at least 2015 till I can afford the camera alone. Now that's irritating.

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peevee1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,247
Re: ME TOO. Irritated! DIFFERENT GRIPE.

3DrJ wrote:


In other words, introductory rebates are a separate issue. Thing is, some kind of rebate is offered in each region, and the items have a retail value that is approximately equal.

In N. America, it's the MMF3 or FL300R, retail price of these is ~$200. But the HLD7 also retails for $200. All 3 are worth about the same. Which accessory qualifies for rebate does NOT change the overall price, or value received.

But the retail value and COST to Olympus are two different things. Both MMF-3 and FL-300R are relatively high-volume products with marginal cost of below $5 and their very low R&D costs distributed between probably tens of thousands of copies over the life of the products. Giving them on $1,400 costs them $5.HLD-7 is a low-volume product just for this particular body, probably just a couple of thousands of them (if that many) will ever be sold separately (so all R&D and tooling will have to be divided by those couple thousands), and even marginal cost is obviously higher due to precision assembly needed, and that high cost is recouped only if you include it in the introductory price of the body and distribute with it to build up some volume. Of course they decided to include it in the price in market with higher price tolerance (otherwise body price in the US would be $1,600 or so).

dennis tennis Veteran Member • Posts: 3,783
Re: HEY OLYMPUS! I’m irritated as %@&#!!!

Grown man complaining that his lens will not be ready in time for his trip.

We feel for you.  The world does revolve around you, such a shame that Olympus didn't get the memo.

Some people are jealous of us because we have clean drinking water in our own homes and we don't have to carry hit up a mountain on our backs like the Napalese villagers, but hey, the don't have to worry about not having the 122-40 f2.8 to pair with the EM1.

I would much rather have their problem than be in your predicament.  Also, did I hear you right, you don't have any shoes that matches your new Prada man-purse.  Such a pity.

3DrJ Senior Member • Posts: 1,027
Interesting comment. Now a question for you...

peevee1 wrote:

3DrJ wrote:

In other words, introductory rebates are a separate issue. Thing is, some kind of rebate is offered in each region, and the items have a retail value that is approximately equal.

In N. America, it's the MMF3 or FL300R, retail price of these is ~$200. But the HLD7 also retails for $200. All 3 are worth about the same. Which accessory qualifies for rebate does NOT change the overall price, or value received.

But the retail value and COST to Olympus are two different things. Both MMF-3 and FL-300R are relatively high-volume products with marginal cost of below $5 and their very low R&D costs distributed between probably tens of thousands of copies over the life of the products. Giving them on $1,400 costs them $5.HLD-7 is a low-volume product just for this particular body, probably just a couple of thousands of them (if that many) will ever be sold separately (so all R&D and tooling will have to be divided by those couple thousands), and even marginal cost is obviously higher due to precision assembly needed, and that high cost is recouped only if you include it in the introductory price of the body and distribute with it to build up some volume. Of course they decided to include it in the price in market with higher price tolerance (otherwise body price in the US would be $1,600 or so).

OK, one or more of your assertions is possibly true. Here's my question: how do you know? What data do you have?

What you'd need to show are documents tabulating Olympus' manufacturing and marketing costs of the items as you asserted, and the number of units sold (of MMF3 and FL-300R), etc. And since you brought it up, separating R&D cost and amortization over the last few years would help establish the facts.

It would also be helpful if you'd provide comparative profit/loss data for European vs. N. American sales of Olympus cameras, since you imply cost differences in various regions ("higher price tolerance" of one place vs. another) play a role in Olympus' decisions about what rebates to offer.

These queries are only examples. I'm certain many other sorts of data could be relevant to the "explanations" you gave. Any real, and pertinent, data would be sensational.  In the absence of concrete data, the statements can't be considered true.

Naturally, these questions just barely scratch the surface concerning the financial nuances of the camera business. I'm not an accountant, though having run my own business for a long time, I have some idea of the complexities of profit and loss. If you are an accountant and/or have deep knowledge of Olympus' financial practices, well, I am quite sure you shouldn't be writing about it on an internet forum.

Here's the deal. When it's done and said, I'd still greatly prefer a rebate on something I can really use (the HLD-7), rather than for stuff I already have (MMF3, et. al.).

Jules.

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erichK Veteran Member • Posts: 6,182
Is this reeally derserved?

dennis tennis wrote:

Grown man complaining that his lens will not be ready in time for his trip.

We feel for you. The world does revolve around you, such a shame that Olympus didn't get the memo.

Some people are jealous of us because we have clean drinking water in our own homes and we don't have to carry hit up a mountain on our backs like the Napalese villagers, but hey, the don't have to worry about not having the 122-40 f2.8 to pair with the EM1.

I would much rather have their problem than be in your predicament. Also, did I hear you right, you don't have any shoes that matches your new Prada man-purse. Such a pity.

We all know that we live very well, partly because others live badly, but exactly what does your post do to help this situation?

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erichK
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erichK Veteran Member • Posts: 6,182
Re: Interesting comment. Now a question for you...

3DrJ wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

3DrJ wrote:

In other words, introductory rebates are a separate issue. Thing is, some kind of rebate is offered in each region, and the items have a retail value that is approximately equal.

In N. America, it's the MMF3 or FL300R, retail price of these is ~$200. But the HLD7 also retails for $200. All 3 are worth about the same. Which accessory qualifies for rebate does NOT change the overall price, or value received.

But the retail value and COST to Olympus are two different things.Naturally, these questions just barely scratch the surface concerning the financial nuances of the camera business. I'm not an accountant, though having run my own business for a long time, I have some idea of the complexities of profit and loss. If you are an accountant and/or have deep knowledge of Olympus' financial practices, well, I am quite sure you shouldn't be writing about it on an internet forum.

Here's the deal. When it's done and said, I'd still greatly prefer a rebate on something I can really use (the HLD-7), rather than for stuff I already have (MMF3, et. al.).

Jules.

I would gladly pay an extra $50, perhaps even $75 to have the rebate apply to the grip rather than a flash- which I doubt they could produce for an in-house cost of $5 or the mount, which they might just be able to.

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erichK
saskatoon, canada
Photography is a small voice, at best, but sometimes one photograph, or a group of them, can lure our sense of awareness.
- W. Eugene Smith, Dec 30, 1918 to Oct 15, 1978.
http://erichk.zenfolio.com/
http://www.fototime.com/inv/7F3D846BCD301F3
underwater photos:
http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/5567

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3DrJ Senior Member • Posts: 1,027
Re: Interesting comment. Now a question for you...

erichK wrote:

I would gladly pay an extra $50, perhaps even $75 to have the rebate apply to the grip rather than a flash- which I doubt they could produce for an in-house cost of $5 or the mount, which they might just be able to.

If the HLD-7 were offered for $50 I'd probably go for it myself.  However we really don't know what it costs Olympus to produce any of these items, and ideas of "what it costs" are sheer speculation.

But does it matter anyway?   What we think we can "explain" doesn't change in the slightest what Olympus decides to offer (or not).  Sure, I'd much rather pay less, but all we can do is "take it or leave it" as the rebates stand.

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erichK

Jules.

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peevee1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,247
Re: HEY OLYMPUS! I’m irritated as %@&#!!!

Olymore wrote:

If the US was to buy more mirrorless cameras it would probably get higher priority.
Blame your fellow citizens

If the cameras were priced or specced competitively, we would buy more - like we did with E-M5 which was competitive in 2012.
Specifically about E-M1, it should either have 10 fps of low-light AF tracking at its current price of $1,400, or be priced at $1,000 at its current lagging performance of 6.5 fps in good light only. Instead Oly decided to sell an inferior camera at higher price - and not even sell it with a lens.

Thanks, but at these conditions blame the low sales on not enough stupid people with that kind of money.

peevee1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,247
Re: Interesting comment. Now a question for you...

3DrJ wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

3DrJ wrote:

In other words, introductory rebates are a separate issue. Thing is, some kind of rebate is offered in each region, and the items have a retail value that is approximately equal.

In N. America, it's the MMF3 or FL300R, retail price of these is ~$200. But the HLD7 also retails for $200. All 3 are worth about the same. Which accessory qualifies for rebate does NOT change the overall price, or value received.

But the retail value and COST to Olympus are two different things. Both MMF-3 and FL-300R are relatively high-volume products with marginal cost of below $5 and their very low R&D costs distributed between probably tens of thousands of copies over the life of the products. Giving them on $1,400 costs them $5.HLD-7 is a low-volume product just for this particular body, probably just a couple of thousands of them (if that many) will ever be sold separately (so all R&D and tooling will have to be divided by those couple thousands), and even marginal cost is obviously higher due to precision assembly needed, and that high cost is recouped only if you include it in the introductory price of the body and distribute with it to build up some volume. Of course they decided to include it in the price in market with higher price tolerance (otherwise body price in the US would be $1,600 or so).

OK, one or more of your assertions is possibly true. Here's my question: how do you know? What data do you have?

I know what these things are, and I can compare their price and complexity to the prices and complexities of many other goods.

What you'd need to show are documents tabulating Olympus' manufacturing and marketing costs of

You don't need to calculate the precise values to know than 2+2 is less than 200+200. Estimation works perfectly well.

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