RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???

Started Sep 5, 2013 | Discussions
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Manzur Fahim
Manzur Fahim Senior Member • Posts: 1,350
RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???

Hello everyone,

Just reading a review here, and according to the reviewer, the raw files may be cooked in RX100. Didn't heard that before.

http://www.olegnovikov.com/technical/sony_rx100/sony_rx100.shtml

Probably a good thing if doesn't affect resolution or image sharpness.

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Ron AKA Veteran Member • Posts: 4,875
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???
1

"The only conclusion I can come to is that the camera silently cooks RAW files to correct for vignetting, chromatic aberration and distortion."

I would suggest this guy is not a credible source of review information. If you look at an uncorrected RAW file there is brutal distortion at 28 mm focal length. He obviously was looking at corrected images and assumed they were uncorrected.

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Digital Nigel Veteran Member • Posts: 4,913
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???
1

mfahim27753 wrote:

Hello everyone,

Just reading a review here, and according to the reviewer, the raw files may be cooked in RX100. Didn't heard that before.

http://www.olegnovikov.com/technical/sony_rx100/sony_rx100.shtml

Probably a good thing if doesn't affect resolution or image sharpness.

That article is plainly mistaken as I don't think LR allows all corrections to be turned off. He should have better understood the software, or used another package, before making an uninformed statement like that.

When you look at the before and after images in DxO it's very obvious that the RX100 RAW images, particularly at the wide end, do have pronounced distortion, CA, vignetting, etc. It only takes a single mouse click to discover this.

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Dale Cotton Senior Member • Posts: 1,937
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???
2

I was impressed that he deduced the presence of automatic distortion correction in Lightroom on his own. Each raw file has a table of numbers in the header telling raw converters what corrections to make to minimize distortion at each f/stop and focal length. Lightroom doesn't allow the user to turn this off. DxO's raw converter does.That said, the raw files are not "cooked" in the usual sense, because the raw data is there. Whether or not the raw converter applies the cooking recipe should be a user option.

But his analysis below the sample images where he talks about each focal length doesn't match my own testing. I'll be posting my actual res chart test shots fairly soon so people can form their own opinions.

Manzur Fahim
Manzur Fahim OP Senior Member • Posts: 1,350
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???

Thanks everyone, it confused me for a bit

One thing I wanted to ask: In LR5, I can't seem to get a profile for the lens on RX100. Is that the only way to correct distortion in LR? I mean is there any profile for the camera or the lens, or should I just use the auto feature in LR lens correction?

Many thanks.

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Ron AKA Veteran Member • Posts: 4,875
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???
1

I don't use Lightroom, but if it is anything like ACR in Photoshop Elements, there is no lens to choose because the RX100 only has one lens. You correct for the camera, or you don't. No options.

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Dale Cotton Senior Member • Posts: 1,937
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???

mfahim27753 wrote:

Thanks everyone, it confused me for a bit

One thing I wanted to ask: In LR5, I can't seem to get a profile for the lens on RX100. Is that the only way to correct distortion in LR? I mean is there any profile for the camera or the lens, or should I just use the auto feature in LR lens correction?

As I said in my previous post, the profile for the RX100M2 is built into the raw file itself; LR5 automatically applies that profile when opening the image, and has no alternate profile to offer you. So the profile section of the Develop module shows no profile options to select and has no function whether you click the checkbox or not. But nevertheless the image has been profile-corrected and you have no way of reverting to an uncorrected view.

BTW: the lens distortion profile corrections you see in LR are identical to the ones Sony applies in-camera to its own JPEG output.

Digital Nigel Veteran Member • Posts: 4,913
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???
1

Dale Cotton wrote:

mfahim27753 wrote:

Thanks everyone, it confused me for a bit

One thing I wanted to ask: In LR5, I can't seem to get a profile for the lens on RX100. Is that the only way to correct distortion in LR? I mean is there any profile for the camera or the lens, or should I just use the auto feature in LR lens correction?

As I said in my previous post, the profile for the RX100M2 is built into the raw file itself; LR5 automatically applies that profile when opening the image, and has no alternate profile to offer you. So the profile section of the Develop module shows no profile options to select and has no function whether you click the checkbox or not. But nevertheless the image has been profile-corrected and you have no way of reverting to an uncorrected view.

BTW: the lens distortion profile corrections you see in LR are identical to the ones Sony applies in-camera to its own JPEG output.

However, I think DxO behaves differently, and does have its own profile for the RX100 (and, in the latest version, the M2 separately as well).  And you can turn on or off any of the adjustments, or even vary their effects individually (eg, you can increase or reduce the CA, lens sharpness adjustments, etc).

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newellj Senior Member • Posts: 1,048
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???

Ron AKA wrote:

I don't use Lightroom, but if it is anything like ACR in Photoshop Elements, there is no lens to choose because the RX100 only has one lens. You correct for the camera, or you don't. No options.

This is correct, at least as far as I can tell from LR's file handling.

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DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 4,863
ALL raws are cooked.

It is a common misconception to think they are not.  It is simply a matter of degree.

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Chet Meyerson
Chet Meyerson Regular Member • Posts: 210
No they are really CRAW, not pure Raw

Although Gary Friedman is discussing the a99 here, this applies to all Sony raw files. See page 532.

""Compressed RAW? Once upon a time Sony introduced a compressed RAW format on the A900 called cRAW. cRAW took up so much less space than regular RAW, and they were so indistinguishable from the original RAW format that starting with the A65 and A77 they decided to ditch the original RAW file altogether, replace it with cRAW but just call it RAW. And that’s why your RAW files are smaller than a 24 MP RAW file ought to be.""

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Digital Nigel Veteran Member • Posts: 4,913
Re: No they are really CRAW, not pure Raw

I thought Nikon RAW files were compressed, too, for the same reason.

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zoranT Contributing Member • Posts: 915
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???

in RAW Therapee and some other editors you can obtain the original un-corrected RAW files.

I tried but concluded that it is not worth the effort, the correction does not affect image sharpness to a degree that I would like to switch from Lightroom to another editor. For some motifs distortion may be interesting, then I would switch.

Digital Nigel Veteran Member • Posts: 4,913
Re: RX100 Raw files are not RAW ???

DxO lets you optionally extract a wider image from the RAW file than the OOC JPEGs, while still applying all the corrections. I don't think LR allows this, as it basically applies exactly the same corrections as the camera does, with no options.

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