can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Started Sep 2, 2013 | Discussions
sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 13,718
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Theres no glory in being an early adopter.....

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nevercat Veteran Member • Posts: 3,193
Re: 7 months *is* unusual for a Sony camera

marike6 wrote:

It does seem unusual that any Sony camera would drop so significantly in price in such a short time.

The RX-100, for example, hasn't dropped at all in price (it's still 650 USD) and version two has already shipped. The NEX-7 did not drop in price after all this time.

AFAIK, The NEX-5N remained at full price for it's entire lifespan. I was waiting for it's price to drop to snap one up, and that never happened.

So knowing that Sony rarely, if ever, reduces prices on their cameras, why do you guys think the NEX-5R price dropped so quickly?

What made the NEX-5R different for the above models that still are selling at full price?

Maybe the Nex 6 is the answer. For many the Nex 6, with a mode dial and build in EVF is the best mirrorless on the market. So maybe that camera shot Sony in the foot?

Ragnarock
Ragnarock New Member • Posts: 23
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

coronawithlime wrote:

Sir Punk wrote:

I have been reading a bit the news on nex rumors and I happened to noticed a post about the 5R being sold for $429

I bought my 5R at the end of January for $700 and now it's probably worth $300 on the used market. I know how much technology depreciates but also my experience with other expensive digital cameras I have owned (one example to LX3) was that the value wouldn't go down so sharply. Not even a year has gone by.

This makes me reconsider Sony for my next purchase of a digital camera with such short product life.

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

You think you're disappointed, think of the guys with D3x's.

Or the Nikon D600. If there will be a D610 in the near future then the price will drop even more. Oh well as long as you are happy with your purchase.

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marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Ragnarock wrote:

coronawithlime wrote:

Sir Punk wrote:

I have been reading a bit the news on nex rumors and I happened to noticed a post about the 5R being sold for $429

I bought my 5R at the end of January for $700 and now it's probably worth $300 on the used market. I know how much technology depreciates but also my experience with other expensive digital cameras I have owned (one example to LX3) was that the value wouldn't go down so sharply. Not even a year has gone by.

This makes me reconsider Sony for my next purchase of a digital camera with such short product life.

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

You think you're disappointed, think of the guys with D3x's.

Or the Nikon D600. If there will be a D610 in the near future then the price will drop even more. Oh well as long as you are happy with your purchase.

The D3x and D600 haven't dropped in price even one dollar, so I'm not sure what either of you mean.   In general, and as others have mentioned, FF DSLRs hold their value extremely well.  When I sold my 5D Mk II / 24-105 f/4 L kit before buying the D800, I didn't lose a single dollar in the Ebay transaction.

When I sold my NEX-3N kit on Ebay after about 4 weeks of use, I lose over $100 in the sale because I had very little interest.

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zackiedawg
zackiedawg Forum Pro • Posts: 31,134
Everybody's math is different. Mine is...
5

Here's how my math works.

I buy a camera.  Let's say it costs $600.  I take photos with it, which bring me great pleasure.  I'm going to say, very conservatively, that every photo I snap averages out to at least 10 cents of pleasure.  Some might be $5-10 worth of pleasure, others might be $0...so I'm conservatively averaging it out.  Over a year, I'll take roughly 15,000 photos with that camera.  So after 1 year, I've gotten about $1,500 worth of pleasure and fun out of that camera, that cost me $600.  It's value might have dropped to $250, even $200, for resale purposes, but since I'm already $900 ahead in the pleasure it has given me, I've already turned a profit from the camera, even if I give it away to a friend or family member.

Now, if I was buying the camera to sit unopened in its box, and using it as an investment vehicle to fund my future retirement, hoping to resell it at a profit that outpaces inflation, I admit I think I'd be sorely disappointed.  Fortunately, that's not what I buy them for, so all works out beautifully in the end.

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Puddleglum
Puddleglum Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: 7 months *is* unusual for a Sony camera

marike6 wrote:

It does seem unusual that any Sony camera would drop so significantly in price in such a short time.

The RX-100, for example, hasn't dropped at all in price (it's still 650 USD) and version two has already shipped. The NEX-7 did not drop in price after all this time.

AFAIK, The NEX-5N remained at full price for it's entire lifespan. I was waiting for it's price to drop to snap one up, and that never happened.

So knowing that Sony rarely, if ever, reduces prices on their cameras, why do you guys think the NEX-5R price dropped so quickly?

What made the NEX-5R different for the above models that still are selling at full price?

This time last year (just ahead of the NEX-5R's release), the NEX-5N was available at nice discounts in the US. I want to say Amazon had it with a kit lens for $500. Another factor is that the MSRP of the NEX-5T w/lens is $50 lower than the 5R, and it has the PZ kit lens on top of that.

So, last year, NEX-5N was being sold for NEX-5R MSRP minus $250 (750/500). This year, the NEX-5R is being sold for NEX-5T MSRP minus $250 (700/450). Basically the situation is the same.

For the RX-100, street price is at $600 now. The mk ii MSRP went up by $100 so that partially explains the lack of a significant price drop.

It is a bit surprising that Sony has not lowered the price on the NEX-7 a little by now, but is their flagship NEX model.

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 29,018
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Sir Punk wrote:

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

If you don't make money with your cameras, every thing you buy is a "financial loss".  Everything you buy in fact is a financial loss, aside from investment bonds!

I know someone who sold a new iphone 5 for $600 in December of 2012.  Now walmart sells them for $98.

oklaphotog Senior Member • Posts: 1,093
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Sir Punk wrote:

I have been reading a bit the news on nex rumors and I happened to noticed a post about the 5R being sold for $429

I bought my 5R at the end of January for $700 and now it's probably worth $300 on the used market. I know how much technology depreciates but also my experience with other expensive digital cameras I have owned (one example to LX3) was that the value wouldn't go down so sharply. Not even a year has gone by.

This makes me reconsider Sony for my next purchase of a digital camera with such short product life.

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

Any time a new camera is released the resale value drops on the previous models. the LX3 is an old camera and Panasonic seems to update this camera every 2 years or so, which is why it held it's value like it did. Sony has always had short product cycles in most of it's consumer electronics products, especially in NEX cameras. NEX is a lot newer system than Alpha, and there are almost as many NEX models as there have been Alpha's. It's obvious that Sony considers NEX more of a consumer electronics product vs. it's Alpha line.

Most people don't buy cameras to only resell them quickly. They buy them and shoot them for years until they either die, or it's truly time for an upgrade. It's highly likely that the 5R a was a great camera when you bought it and will be 4 years from now. Getting caught up in the upgrade cycle of every body is what costs money. Fact is, most of the improvements on these newer cameras are hardly ground breaking, but rather minor instead. Today is not like it was 10 years ago, where a new model brought a significant reason to upgrade and we are now in somewhat of a plateau when it comes to IQ. These minor updates are just hyped up by marketing folks and gear heads in order to generate sales. It will be a few years before Sony makes an aps nex that gives a substantial upgrade in IQ vs. what you have now. A stop better ISO or a hair more DR just isn't significant. 3-4 stops improvement and a lot more DR is a real improvement. By the time that happens you will have thoroughly had your money's worth out of the 5R and it shouldn't matter what it's resell value is.

Buy lenses instead, they are more useful than incremental body upgrades. Upgrade bodies every 3-4 generations and save yourself a lot of money. There simply isn't much of a reason to always have the newest body, unless you just want to look cool.

I try not to upgrade bodies any sooner than 2-3 years these days. Buy something that fully fulfills your needs then shoot the thing into the ground, and then go get another one. Using Nikon as an example, the D7100 doesn't give a significant IQ increase over a D90 or D300 in 99% of real world usages. Many pro's still shoot D300's and D2X's. I would bet that if a good shooter took a D90 and a D7100 out in the field, shot some high quality work with good technique and quality lenses, made several quality 16x20" prints from the images, hung them on the wall in a gallery, and asked you which camera was which... You probably couldn't tell which camera was used and if you guessed right on any of them, it was by chance. You could also apply this to the A700 vs. A77, A900/A850 vs. A99, or an original Nex 5 vs. Nex 6 or 7.

Analyzing the cell phone mentality gives a ggod picture of it too. Some folks always have to have the newest iPhone etc.. But reality is... for a phone, what does the iPhone 5 really give you over an iPhone 3? They make the same phone call, send the same messages and email, play the same music, videos, and browse the web the same. Yet people go out and get the new 4 then 5 model etc... Which did nothing for them except for cool factor/status symbol along with less money in their bank account. Had they hung on to their iPhone 3 and waited for a significant upgrade before purchasing again, they would have saved a lot of money.

We as consumers are slightly to blame for short product cycles. Because we give in to it as a society and always try to have the latest and greatest, it allows companies to do this. If we didn't do this, it would make for longer product cycles, with better products that have real serious advantages when they are released along with less bugs and faults. How many years were there between EOS 1/1n/1v, Nikon F3/F4/F5/F6, Minolta 9000/9xi/9 releases etc...? Quite a few, but each one of those cameras brought a big upgrade to the table when they came out and they worked really well, as advertised.

Sony is definitely the worst when it comes to short product cycles, especially in lower end products. I wish they would bring out better cameras with more solid performance over longer cycles and spend a lot of the time in between making more and better lenses. I think they would have more respect in the market if they did. Instead, they always have to throw some gimmick into the mix on a new release, while at the same time leaving something important out that leaves the consumer hanging to upgrade again on the next cycle to get that important issue fixed. Instead of spending time putting in crap like sweep panorama, face detect af, and smile shutter... Why not spend that time and resources giving better noise and AF performance? The A77 and A99 were best in class cameras... almost.... A77 had bad noise and the A99 has a tiny af array in the center that is almost worthless for action shooting.

semifast Contributing Member • Posts: 780
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

NFC is available on tablets and can be added to any computer with usb.

Its a worthwhile upgrade to a camera.

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LifeIsAVerb Senior Member • Posts: 1,773
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Sonyshine wrote:

Never buy a new camera, let someone else take the depreciation hit!

.

That's my car-buying philosophy, too. I spend a total of less than $12,000 on my last three vehicles, a mini-van, Honda CRV, and Chevy 2500 pickup.

.

Ed B
Ed B Veteran Member • Posts: 9,777
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

D Cox wrote:

Ed B wrote:

wictred wrote:

Ed B wrote:

I have a 5n with two lenses listed on the "for sale & wanted" forum that is like new that I can't seem to give away.

I'm trying to sell a 5N with 16-50 PZ lens right now. No one's interested.

Maybe I'll just convert it to IR instead and sell the PZ alone .... or keep the PZ and use the combo for IR exclusively.

I'll also probably end up keeping the one we have. It's a good camera and will get used, at times.

It's useful to have a spare camera in case of accidents to the newer one.

I agree but I don't really have a newer camera. I just don't normally use an NEX. The 5n was mainly used by my wife but she likes a zoom lens and when the zoom is attached the camera is a little too big for her purse.

I don't use the NEX very often because I'm more comfortable with a different camera but one of my cameras is much older than the 5n and the other one is about the same age (maybe a little newer).

Just the same, I have no complaints about the NEX picture quality and can understand why people love them. I really think they're excellent cameras.

I've always said that if you take a camera like the 5n, put it on program mode with a decent lens, it's almost impossible to get a bad picture. My wife proved that many times.

semifast Contributing Member • Posts: 780
Re: 7 months *is* unusual for a Sony camera

The 5n dropped just as much as the 5r. I bought one for about $350 a year ago.

I don't think there's anything unusual about the 5r price right now.

btw, I expect the 6 and 7 prices will drop as soon as the a3000 is widely available. Or when the next high end Nex with a better sensor hits the market.

The rx100 is a completely different matter, it has no real competitor and I'm pretty sure its a fairly limited item in terms of sales, compared to the Nex cameras.

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lenshoarder Contributing Member • Posts: 609
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Sir Punk wrote:

I have been reading a bit the news on nex rumors and I happened to noticed a post about the 5R being sold for $429

I bought my 5R at the end of January for $700 and now it's probably worth $300 on the used market. I know how much technology depreciates but also my experience with other expensive digital cameras I have owned (one example to LX3) was that the value wouldn't go down so sharply. Not even a year has gone by.

This makes me reconsider Sony for my next purchase of a digital camera with such short product life.

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

Actually 2 days ago the 5R bottomed out at $315 new.

I don't see what the problem is. A camera is not gold, it's not meant to hedge against inflation. It's meant to be used. Does it work any differently now? If not, enjoy it.

The 5R has held up very well. It's only going down now because Sony is clearing the stable for the 5T. If it wasn't doing that then the price wouldn't go down. If the 5N is an example, then expect used 5R prices to rise after the clearance. The 5N sells more used now then it did when it was new at the end.

For an example of price pain, look no further than Panasonic. Th GX1 was $600 when it came out. Then the price quickly dropped to $249 without even a clearance sale. The same with the LX7. $500 down to $199.

There's a lesson here. Buy a new model at the end of it's cycle not at the beginning if losing value bothers you.

lenshoarder Contributing Member • Posts: 609
Re: Surprising...

marike6 wrote:

Some cameras lose value faster than others, but Sony NEX cameras (until recently I guess) generally hold their value well.

But the fact the NEX-5R / 18-55 kit is $499 at a reputable shop like B&H is crazy to me, considering that when the NEX-3N came out, I purchased the 3N kit from them for the exact same $499 that the far better 5R is now selling at.

They do hold their value well.  Used 5N's sell for more than new one's did at their final clearance price.

I don't know why this is surprising.  This isn't natural price destruction, it's a clearance that Sony initiated.  They do it every year.  They did it for the NEX 3/5.  They did it for the C3/5N.  Now they are doing it for the 5R.  You can set your clock by it.

semifast Contributing Member • Posts: 780
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Where is a new LX7 $199 ?

When has a new LX7 ever been $199 ?

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oklaphotog Senior Member • Posts: 1,093
Re: 7 months *is* unusual for a Sony camera

marike6 wrote:

It does seem unusual that any Sony camera would drop so significantly in price in such a short time.

The RX-100, for example, hasn't dropped at all in price (it's still 650 USD) and version two has already shipped. The NEX-7 did not drop in price after all this time.

The RX-100 was a premium product in it's category. It's currently $599 vs $750 USD for the MII. Sony brought out the MII as a higher priced and higher level camera not as a replacement at the same price as the previous model. In the end the MII is a little more than the M1 was originally, with the M1 taking a $100 price reduction.  For many, the MII doesn't bring enough to the table over the MI version to justify $150 difference in price. But because it is so popular, Sony is riding the coat tails of the MI while at the same time making more money from sales of MII to people who just have to have it all or have the latest. The NEX-7 doesn't have a replacement yet, but being it's pretty old now, when a replacement does arrive, it's value will drop like a rock.

AFAIK, The NEX-5N remained at full price for it's entire lifespan. I was waiting for it's price to drop to snap one up, and that never happened.

But the 5T replaced the 5R for about the same price. The RX100 appeals to many SLR shooters as a pocket camera, where the NEX 5 series doesn't. They are in different markets and the RX100 has wider appeal with a large audience.

So knowing that Sony rarely, if ever, reduces prices on their cameras, why do you guys think the NEX-5R price dropped so quickly

Because the 5R was replaced. Sony always reduces price by varying degrees on models that get replaced depending on how much it has in inventory and how well it is selling. It's cheaper to sell them for less than to sit on them in a warehouse.

What made the NEX-5R different for the above models that still are selling at full price?

It's highly likely there are a lot of 5R's on shelves, forcing Sony to give dealers price protection on current inventory in order to sell it and to clear shelves for newer product.. Or Sony has been caught with it's pants down, sitting on a large quantity of 5R's in their warehouses after the 5T release, and had to drop the price to sell them. Nobody wants the older version for the same or nearly the same price. B&H sells the 5R kit for $499 vs the 5T kit for $699. Sony is selling the 5R for $749 + $150 instant savings. Anyone selling a 5R at $429 is likely selling it at below their cost in order to get rid of them now that the camera is no longer on SURE.. Having previously worked in a dealer and knowing how Sony prices things, I suspect that current dealer cost is $499 for the 5R kit which gives slightly less than a 17% markup at $599 ($499/.83=$601). Sony never sells in it's stores or online store for more than what they recommend their brick and mortar retailers to sell at. Where Canikon bodies, lenses, and kits generally have a 10% markup, Sony is usually 15-18% for photo specialty dealers. B&H almost always sells their gear at the same price as what it costs the brick and mortar store to purchase them, except Sony products under the SURE structure. Once it goes off of SURE, then they drop the price to other dealer's cost.

So on average in most dealers you are likely to find this camera at between $499 and $599, now that the camera is no longer SURE priced. B&H, Adorama, Amazon, etc.... can sell it at other dealers cost because their purchasing power allows them to buy such a large quantity that they get a lower cost than everybody else. If you see this camera for less than $499 for the kit at anywhere other than one of the big mail order houses, it's likely below cost and the company is trying to shed them from inventory before they loose more value. When shops do this, they often make up for part of it in the shipping price and by selling accessories with it that have a high markup which balances out the sale. Most folks who buy one will buy a card and a uv filter, maybe a battery, nicer strap and bag, all of which have at least a 40% markup. When this happens they get to move the camera while taking a minimum loss vs. having it sit on the shelf for a year unsold only to get sold for even less than they paid for them.

Joachim Gerstl
Joachim Gerstl Veteran Member • Posts: 8,057
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Digital Cameras or computers are not investments. You buy it to use it. If you worry only about the resell value buy a second hand Porsche or a second hand luxury watch.

Or another more practical solution: Buy the older model. i.e. buy a 5R now. It's cheap. Don't buy cameras when they are brand-new.

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Paul_B Midlands UK
Paul_B Midlands UK Contributing Member • Posts: 621
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

My 5n I'm sure is worthless now (in effect) but I had 2 years great use of it and new stuff is here to tempt us. Our 2 or 3 year old car or computer, same deal. Fix the life unless we pick a collectable! I'm ok with it I am tired of Nex5 software I want that Ricoh Gr but with digital viewfinder not that optical one.
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GordonAtWork
GordonAtWork Regular Member • Posts: 480
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

I can't believe my Canon 1Ds2 is only worth £500. Then again, with just over a 24,000 shutter count it's more than paid for itself in film cost/processing costs alone and it's still a great camera.

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Rexgig0 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,983
Re: Glad to pay one-third original price.../ investments...

Buying some of my pre-owned cameras, I was glad to be paying one-third the original retail price for my 5D bodies, and proportionately less for my 1D Mark II N bodies. These models are now eight years old, and providing me with enjoyment and quite good images. I have bought new cameras, too, and it is reassuring to know they will probably be working well when a decade old, unless I cause damage to them. Shutter assemblies are replaceable.

I know, of course, that the manufacturers will eventually cease to support them, but the last time I checked, the 5D and 1D Mark II N were still supported. If not, well, I have received good service from them, including images that are priceless, to me.

If the D70s is no longer supported by Nikon, well, that is OK, too. At $100 US, through Ebay, it can be considered disposable.

If I want an investment, I will save the price of a camera body, and then put that amount into an interest-bearing account, or my 457 account. (457 is a type of 401k equivalent, for government workers.)

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