can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Started Sep 2, 2013 | Discussions
Nexguy
Nexguy Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

sportyaccordy wrote:

This is why you wait. I want a NEX 6 but I am waiting until they get down to under $400 for the body. Only a matter of time as I'm sure Sony will release another camera with a built in EVF

Please let us know when you find a new NEX 6 for under $400. It has been out a year now and the B&H price is $748.  You may have a bit longer wait than you think.

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Kiichiro Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Sir Punk wrote:

I don't change my cameras often, every 3-4 years. But regardless of all these observation you made, I wanted to discuss the plunge in value, and not include any philosophical discussion.

A clear example is how apple laptops hold their value quite well or some japanese cars. Do you think Apple customers were happy when they discontinued the ipad 3 after just a few months? It's a similar thing with the mid-range NEX.

People need cars and a lot more people need iPads and laptops than a camera. The demand for used cameras is low so it will never hold it's value.

I have seen a lot of good deals on used cameras and still some even good ones do not sell on craigslist.

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semifast Contributing Member • Posts: 780
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

If you're seriously interested in a good deal its better to be flexible than to just have one model in mind.

There's lots of reasons why a particular model isn't marked down a lot. One is it might be more limited in its distribution therefore dealers don't have inventory to clear out.

Or its primarily marketed to people who aren't price conscious.

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wictred Senior Member • Posts: 1,195
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

RobDJW wrote:

The best investment is to buy good lenses, they will keep their value.

Not E-Mount lenses.

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Mel Snyder
Mel Snyder Veteran Member • Posts: 4,088
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

sportyaccordy wrote:

This is why you wait. I want a NEX 6 but I am waiting until they get down to under $400 for the body. Only a matter of time as I'm sure Sony will release another camera with a built in EVF

And in the meantime, you will lose the fun of shooting one of the most fabulous cameras introduced in years.

The NEX-6 was introduced almost exactly a year ago. Had you purchased it then, and put a dollar in the bank every day since then, it would have cost $400 - and you would have had the joy of using this great camera all 365 days. And the next 365 days. There is no certainty that the NEX-6 be at $400 a year from now, no matter what Sony introduces. They're concentrating on the dSLR looking camera market now.

There's no freaking way I would not spend a dollar a day for 2 years to reconcile the price I paid for this great image-making machine.

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parallaxproblem Veteran Member • Posts: 5,335
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months
1

nevercat wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

Sir Punk wrote:

I have been reading a bit the news on nex rumors and I happened to noticed a post about the 5R being sold for $429

I bought my 5R at the end of January for $700 and now it's probably worth $300 on the used market. I know how much technology depreciates but also my experience with other expensive digital cameras I have owned (one example to LX3) was that the value wouldn't go down so sharply. Not even a year has gone by.

This makes me reconsider Sony for my next purchase of a digital camera with such short product life.

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

The 5T launch really is a mystery... if there is a firmware upgrade in the 5T then Sony clearly aren't going to share it (otherwise the recent firmware release would have been better), which wil (or at least should)l annoy existing 5R owners

Well the upgrade on the 5t is minimal, but there is a hardware upgrade, the NFC it is called I believe. It is a small update but it is one. Not one that will any user go and update their cameras, but it is one that is nice for someone who buys a new camera and has an other device that shares this option.

And what benefit will this actually give the person who buys it?  Clue... nothing - it's a 'Sony' internal change for internal consumption so that a Product Manager can say to senior management that the phone now supports a feature of the latest Sony Xperia Mobile phone

There's one other change to the 5T: it supports triluminous colour output for video.  This again is of no benefit to the customer, but gives the said Product Manager the possibility to say to senior management that their camera now supports 2013 Bravia televisions (Trilumious was introduced on 2013 Sony LCD TVs)

The 5T itself offers no real upgrade over the 5R (except maybe firmware) but effectively devalues the camera that 5R owners have in exactly the way you mention

Well read what I said above, not only firmware!

Er, I wrote my text first.  I couldn't read what you wrote because you hadn't written it at that time

And the orice of any digital camera is dropping after an half year or year, look at any brand, even when no succcesor cames out.

Please try to pay attention!  Nobody denies that this depreciation occurs, but the point is that the value of the NEX 5R has dropped more than most other cameras would have at the 12-month point, and a major contribution to this is the release of a new version of the camera...  except this 'new version' isn't really a new version at all

I think the 5t is launched to promote that new function Sony (and I believe Samsung) did put in some of their phones.

Actually NFC is in my Nokia 700 Mobile phone (and I have never used it), which was released in August 2011 (and publicised many months before) running the 'obsolete' Symbian OS...  the 5R was released in August 2012, one year later, so could easily have incorporated this function then if it really was so essential (which it isn't)

Therefore Sony is deliberately annoying existing owners with the release of this product, without offering any benefits to new customers with this latest model. At the same time it is more than two years since the NEX-7 was released and there is still no sign of a successor, unless the A7000 is planned to replace it... so NEX-7 owners are frustrated by a lack of progress in their sector

Sorry I'm confused, when the Nex 5t comes out it is to annoy the people and when the Nex 7 does not come with a new camera it is annoying too...

Let me help you to be less confused

If the 5T had actually been a real update, as the 5N was to the 5, and the 5R was to the 5N, then it would *not* be annoying.  What is annoying here is that they launch a 'new camera' which is basically the old one with an NFC chip and maybe a slightly newer video processing chip to support Triluminous levels

The 7 is now over *double* the age of the 5R when it was replaced, and there is still no sign of an upgrade

I wonder how manny people buy a camera that cists over $1000, 00 and buy the succesor just a year later... I own a Nex 5 and it still takes great puctures, I'm only updating when something comes out that is a lot better then the camera I own...

Good for you.  I upgraded to the 5R from my NEX 5 for two reasons:

1. The touchscreen which allows direct selection of focus spot (which it does - excellent!)

2. The promise of being able to download MFNR via an application, which is something I always wanted.  Except I am not allowed to buy or download NEX applications from playmemories in Switzerland.  Basically I was cheated by the publicity on this point

If I had known about the application download issues beforehand then I probably would not have upgraded

By the way, the cameras for the advanced users are always slower with updates then the entry level cameras. So for the Nex7x it is to be expected to come out later.

24 month's+ later?  When the next model down is getting 12 monthly upgrades (even when they aren't)

A bit exaggerated, don't you think?

Expecting not to lose on Electronics purchases is being rather 'optimistic' (one might say delusional) but previous NEX releases each 12 months have offered real changes to spec (5->5N->5R). The 5T offers nothing and just creates issues. Very poor on Sony's part

Well the 5t is not for upgraders from the 5r, but new owners may like the xamera too. Look at Canon with their very poor differences between the old and the new version of their cameras...

None of the Canon upgrades as were as small as the 5R to the 5T

I think we can conclude that Sony cares little for their existing customers and is now out and actively searching for new and different ones. This is a foolish strategy

I think Sony caresm look at the As FW updates they send out for the A700,, the A900,

You are talking to the wrong person - I have an A900!

THERE WAS ONLY EVER ONE FIRMWARE UPGRADE FOR THAT CAMERA AND THAT WAS NOT A VERY COMPREHENSIVE ONE, it improved the AF but it did nothing to fix the awful JPG engine in the A900

The A900 is a fantastic camera and I like it very much but I am literally forced to take all my pictures in RAW with it and Post Process because the JPG engine is so poor at its job.  This is a standard opinion on the A900, and no just me saying 'A900 has problem X': if you do a forum search you will find that this is pretty much accepted by all A900 owners

The A700 got a firmware upgrade which stopped the noise reduction being performed in RAW, this was not because of Sony's 'care' for their customers but because the A700 got absolutely hammered in almost every review because of the way it mainpulated the RAW files (a poor product specification - Sony basically were forced to correct their mistake by the reviewers). Initially Sony lied and said that this noise reduction was performed in hardware and it was not possible to change it, but then by a miracle the noise processing was removed from RAW and the A700 JPG engine got improved in v4 of the firmware...  no such JPG engine improvement was ported-up top the A900 or A850, sadly

Many A900 owners are upset and feel the A900 did not get the firmware support it should have, after seeing the changes which were possible to the A700.  I am in that group

the Nex 5 etc. Sony offer a (simple) FW update to the Nex 5r and Nex6, to add new lenses. Would they have done that if they did not care? Then they would have said that only the Nex 5t will support those new lenses...

Oh come on.... They did that so that NEX-5R owners (and the owners of the other bodies which got upgraded firmware) can buy the new lenses, not out of the goodness of their hearts!

Saying they did it because 'they care' is taking things a bit too far!

I wonder why people are so paranoia when something does not happen at the moment they expected it to happen.

I wonder why some people feel such strong emotions towards their chosen multi-billion dollar brand that they feel the need to 'protect' it whenever they think an individual person might say something that they think might hurt it...

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 6,192
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

I think the Nex 6 just has more appeal than the Nex 3/5's. It always looked to me that the previous minimalist Nex bodies were made by an entirely different company to the one that made the lenses and they never communicated with each other at any stage in the design.

I think a lot more people would like a Nex 6 and the price will hold. Not just the viewfinder but the lens camera combination just looks right in a way the previous stuff does not. An unexpected design failure by Sony who are usually pretty good at this.

Nexguy wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

This is why you wait. I want a NEX 6 but I am waiting until they get down to under $400 for the body. Only a matter of time as I'm sure Sony will release another camera with a built in EVF

Please let us know when you find a new NEX 6 for under $400. It has been out a year now and the B&H price is $748. You may have a bit longer wait than you think.

Sabud Contributing Member • Posts: 576
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

D Cox wrote:

teseg wrote:

RobDJW wrote:

The best investment is to buy good lenses, they will keep their value. A camerabody improves every year in this day of technology. Fwiw.

A nice cliché... but lenses are not an investment unless you never sell them and/or make money off the images they produce. I bought a Zeiss 24mm e-mount for $1100 + tax (if applicable) 12 months ago. If I'm lucky, today I could get ~ $825 less fees of ~$80.

Over a 32% / $355 loss in 12 months surely is not an investment. It is just that you do not feel bad/jealous because a better 24mm e-mount lens is not launched every year compelling you either to upgrade at a loss or feel like you are missing out.

The lenses I bought 20 or 30 years ago are fetching much more than I paid for them on eBay.

You have to wait for some inflation to develop.

A good second-hand book priced today at £15 or £20 arrives still with its original price sticker saying £2.50. But a hardback book that was selling well a year ago could be around on Amazon for only a penny. Give it twenty years and most copies will be in landfill - now the price will have shot up.

Not so sure! 30 years ago your lenses was'nt full of electronics. Todays expensive and advanced lenses vill not live for ever due to no support from the manufacturer. For example, Canon can't repair/change AF-motors in older tele lenses.

OP Sir Punk Regular Member • Posts: 428
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

well said parallax, I think the 5R price drop is one of the sharpest I have ever seen in a product that is definitely a high quality electronics. If it was a fiasco I would understand. Just look at the prices of the RX100, this 5T release is just ridiculous, why people who take pictures with a camera that can compete with dslr would want to look at said pictures on a smartphone is out of any logic. I understand the NFC feature for a point and shoot. Regardless it is a fact that the value of the 5R has plunged quite sharply and now 5R owners' hopes to get some decent FW updates are more or less gone.

Cailean Gallimore Veteran Member • Posts: 6,083
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months
2

The real question is whether or not the camera was worth what you paid for it. You must have thought it was, because you bought it. It is still the camera you bought, so nobody has cheated you or diminished it's value.

I have a NEX-6 and a NEX-7. Until a month ago, I also had a C3, but it wasn't getting used, so I gave it to a friend. He was delighted.

Not everything is about money.

wictred Senior Member • Posts: 1,195
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Ed B wrote:

I have a 5n with two lenses listed on the "for sale & wanted" forum that is like new that I can't seem to give away.

I'm trying to sell a 5N with 16-50 PZ lens right now. No one's interested.

Maybe I'll just convert it to IR instead and sell the PZ alone .... or keep the PZ and use the combo for IR exclusively.

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Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 36,741
Accountants call it "depreciation" vendors call it "run out sale"

Sir Punk wrote:

I have been reading a bit the news on nex rumors and I happened to noticed a post about the 5R being sold for $429

I bought my 5R at the end of January for $700 and now it's probably worth $300 on the used market. I know how much technology depreciates but also my experience with other expensive digital cameras I have owned (one example to LX3) was that the value wouldn't go down so sharply. Not even a year has gone by.

This makes me reconsider Sony for my next purchase of a digital camera with such short product life.

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

Buy well, keep and use until it breaks, you could get another 10 years use from it, if it takes great pictures now it will keep taking the same pictures whilst it is still working. If it loses $400 in six months then over the next ten years it will only loose $30 per year, seems good value to me. The smart guy is the one that buys it off you for $300, a perfectly good camera that will take quite a while to lose the rest of its value. Mmmm why not buy a second hand something else six months old that has lost most of its value. Must be better than buying a new one (grin). Even Leicas lose value, maybe buy a second hand M9? Someone will take a big hit to sell it.

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Tom Caldwell

Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 36,741
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Mel Snyder wrote:

hyenadog wrote:

Mel Snyder wrote:

I have been reading a bit the news on nex rumors and I happened to noticed a post about the 5R being sold for $429

I bought my 5R at the end of January for $700 and now it's probably worth $300 on the used market. I know how much technology depreciates but also my experience with other expensive digital cameras I have owned (one example to LX3) was that the value wouldn't go down so sharply. Not even a year has gone by.

This makes me reconsider Sony for my next purchase of a digital camera with such short product life.

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

If you bought the camera with resale in mind, you made a big mistake. Not even digital Leicas hold value a year out any more.

Has its imaging degraded 50%? Do you notice that the images you made in January are now fading?

Or are you really bummed out that you can't sell the camera very easily to some unsuspecting newbie for close to what you paid for it?

Craig's List here in Boston is filled with people trying to make their current and now-aging NEX models sound like cutting edge.

No NEX-6s. No NEX-7s. Just 3s and 5s. What does that tell you about what any camera without a viewfinder is worth used? You don't even find used 6s and 7s much on eBay.

Technology is turning over rapidly. Some iPad owners are similarly angered by Apple for coming out with new models faster than one per year. But you know who are least angry? The ones who bought 32gb and 64gb ones. And those who never bought them with the idea of stiffing a newbie.

The forum is full of posters who want more and Sony is responding. What they sold in January still works fine. And likely will for 10 years or more.

And yes, I own a iPad 3 64gb, ordered on the announcement day, and it works perfectly today. And my 2010 MacBook Pro, several versions back, works perfectly, too. In fact, my son-in-law uses my iPad 1 every day as a presentation device in his architectural business.

Mel,

the complexity here :

NEX (and mirrorless in general) sells nothing in the USA hence the NEXinaDSLR skin so probably craigs list is not a good base for NEX resale prices in general

in the UK (NEX sells well) for example there has been little decrease in 5R/3N new street price (which are big sellers)

I have a Nikon dslr/lenses and I got a 5R (without viewfinder) and had zero interest in a viewfinder after I tested how bright and clear the screen was in bright sunlight (in sunny screen option) - in a camera this size I love to shoot from the hip video or medium format style ;-)) .. one of the reasons i like the 5R so much

So i would challenge the "noone wants one with a viewfinder" .. i think the issue is more of the 6 and 7 sell so few that they are a rarity and that keeps their price up .. a bit like E mount lenses - noone buys them so the prices stay up

Excellent points. I concede on viewfinders.

I tend to see the issue through American eyes, which are now tired of looking at ground glass or any electronic equivalents (too many years of shooting twin-lens reflex!) I wanted an EVF version of my old M4P, and Sony delivered one.

Usually, however, low demand = dropping prices. Like what you call petrol.

Also the peculiarity of VAT in the EEC would tend to keep new prices higher than the US anyway therefore there is more price-room for second hand gear to manoeuvre in.  Furthermore the bright light condtions in Australia make an evf more useful and probably in most of the USA as well.  Of course big vehicles have more room for dslr kit (grin).

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Tom Caldwell

Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 36,741
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Mel Snyder wrote:

hyenadog wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

Never buy a new camera, let someone else take the depreciation hit!

I would disagree strongly with you there .. never buy a used complex camera without iron clad warranty is what I would say now everything is disposable and electronic .. something goes wrong with your secondhand nex and it will cost you more than you probably paid for it to repair

The other issue of course is that wtih these fragile modern electronic cameras which are very sensitive to rough handling and environment (eg damp/rain) .. you dont know how its been treated .. i'd rather buy it new and know my careful ownership will likely make it last without fault.

Very much agree. There's a reason why still-current models of all products show up on the used market - cars and cameras alike. Lemons.

Years ago a second hand Canon Pro90 IS (yes "years ago") came quite dusty and scratched a bit.  But worked well enough except for the image reversing on the lcd screen.  Pulling it apart to fix the mechanism (loose wire) I found the inside choked with dust and a water trace running through the dust from the microphone opening.

Obviously had been rattling around in he glovebox or floor of a SUV up and down some rough dusty roads and been out in the rain afterwards. More a tribute to the Canon robust build.

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Tom Caldwell

Aznmadness Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: Change your camera buying strategy

MiamiDolphin wrote:

Instead of buying the latest when it comes out and having it be worth ½ price a year later, buy it one year later when it’s an older generation and get it for ½ price. That way instead of being sad you’ll be jumping with joy. And that same camera will take the same pictures a year later.

+1 wait 12 months-18 months and buy a used 5T for the $200-$300

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Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 36,741
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

parallaxproblem wrote:

Sir Punk wrote:

I have been reading a bit the news on nex rumors and I happened to noticed a post about the 5R being sold for $429

I bought my 5R at the end of January for $700 and now it's probably worth $300 on the used market. I know how much technology depreciates but also my experience with other expensive digital cameras I have owned (one example to LX3) was that the value wouldn't go down so sharply. Not even a year has gone by.

This makes me reconsider Sony for my next purchase of a digital camera with such short product life.

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

The 5T launch really is a mystery... if there is a firmware upgrade in the 5T then Sony clearly aren't going to share it (otherwise the recent firmware release would have been better), which wil (or at least should)l annoy existing 5R owners

The 5T itself offers no real upgrade over the 5R (except maybe firmware) but effectively devalues the camera that 5R owners have in exactly the way you mention

Therefore Sony is deliberately annoying existing owners with the release of this product, without offering any benefits to new customers with this latest model. At the same time it is more than two years since the NEX-7 was released and there is still no sign of a successor, unless the A7000 is planned to replace it... so NEX-7 owners are frustrated by a lack of progress in their sector

Expecting not to lose on Electronics purchases is being rather 'optimistic' (one might say delusional) but previous NEX releases each 12 months have offered real changes to spec (5->5N->5R). The 5T offers nothing and just creates issues. Very poor on Sony's part

I think we can conclude that Sony cares little for their existing customers and is now out and actively searching for new and different ones. This is a foolish strategy

Digital cameras are maturing as a product, advances still happen but it is getting harder to make a "big hit".  Consequently smart users are going to have to decide the point at which the camera they buy is good enough to keep and use for a while.  When that point becomes endemic for the majority then camera manufacturers have a problem, espeiclly those that have built their brand on high volume.  What might be next?  More lenses, a bit like collecting golf clubs I suppose.

So we get a new "cheap" camera a year in a mobile phone or a capable of everything low volume high quality camera and stack it with accessories and lenses?  Back to the future?  Mobile phones tend to restrict the other traditional alternative - ultra cheaply made but quite powerful little fashion boxes.  Something like those impossible-zoom bridge cameras?  Specifications designed to pop eyes and worn out before the new chromed tail fins of the next model hit the electronic goods store?  Marketing takes over when advances in technology starts to fail.

So Sony sell a confusingly numbered range of NEX cameras designed for whatever niche can be found.  Like Walkmans they are good products but the innocent in store will have to either buy on price and get the cheapest or hope that the premium model is worth the extra money.

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Tom Caldwell

marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Surprising...
2

Some cameras lose value faster than others, but Sony NEX cameras (until recently I guess) generally hold their value well.

But the fact the NEX-5R / 18-55 kit is $499 at a reputable shop like B&H is crazy to me, considering that when the NEX-3N came out, I purchased the 3N kit from them for the exact same $499 that the far better 5R is now selling at.

I did not get on well at all with the 3N.  Because of the lower res LCD and the rather mediocre 16-50 PZ, I lasted three weeks with the NEX-3N before listing it one Ebay.  But I have always wanted a NEX-5N or R, but the near $800 seemed to always put the brakes on my plans for a NEX-5R.

Now I'm thinking, NEX-5R body and CZ 16-70 f4 would make a terrific second camera.  And the money saved on the NEX-5R, could offset the price of the zoom.  And rest assured, that the CZ 16-70 f4 is one piece of kit that will never lose value so dramatically.

Anyway,  I'm sorry you are feeling bummed out about your camera, but if it's performing satisfactorily, I wouldn't worry about it.  At least the lens that came with it will never depreciate too much which is one reason people always say to invest in glass, not bodies.

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Section10
Section10 Senior Member • Posts: 1,538
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

The 5's move pretty quick, I opted for the 5 ($500) instead of the 5n ($750) at the time, yes the 5n turned out to be better but not worth the quick loss in value, I still use the 5 for underwater use in a case built for it. The NEX 6 or 7 is the better choice for holding value, they're more of the flagship models for Sony's, even though they'll be replaced too. Technology keeps increasing so they'll replaced just as fast, don't buy cameras to hold value but only to use as much as you can.

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Kings1 Regular Member • Posts: 176
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Sir Punk wrote:

I have been reading a bit the news on nex rumors and I happened to noticed a post about the 5R being sold for $429

I bought my 5R at the end of January for $700 and now it's probably worth $300 on the used market. I know how much technology depreciates but also my experience with other expensive digital cameras I have owned (one example to LX3) was that the value wouldn't go down so sharply. Not even a year has gone by.

However the camera is, or will be a year old soon. Each camera model has a value  depending on how many were produced and sold. Also rebates can play into value

This makes me reconsider Sony for my next purchase of a digital camera with such short product life.

How do you figure a short digital life? Most cameras if taken care will last a long time. In fact I still have my original 1.3 megapixel Sony digital camera, it functions perfectly too....

What are people thoughts on this matter? I am quite upset about it. I always sell my gear and reinvest that money to buy new one but this 5R is going to be quite a financial loss.

I don't buy my equipment to update and sell quickly, so I guess taking a loss isn't a big deal to me. As for lenses they tend to hold their value better than the camera bodies do. I bought into a system and replacing a camera body is a lot cheaper than buying into a entirely new camera system from scratch.

sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 13,515
Re: can't believe my 5R has lost almost half value in 7 months

Nexguy wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

This is why you wait. I want a NEX 6 but I am waiting until they get down to under $400 for the body. Only a matter of time as I'm sure Sony will release another camera with a built in EVF

Please let us know when you find a new NEX 6 for under $400. It has been out a year now and the B&H price is $748. You may have a bit longer wait than you think.

They are going for about $550 used on Ebay. It's only a matter of time.

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