D610 Slap in the Face

Started Aug 30, 2013 | Discussions
Shotcents
Shotcents Veteran Member • Posts: 4,472
D610 Slap in the Face
22

I'm so sorry I ordered a D800 early and will NEVER be an early adopter again. Today my D800 is GREAT, but that took a year of dealing with Nikon and finally getting a firmware update. Never again.

Some of my friends bought the D600, mainly as a 2nd body. And like most people they ended up with the sensor/oil/dirt issue. I won't get into the hoops that had to be jumped through. Everyone here as read it all before in a thousand versions.

Like the D800, the D600 was soon known to be a troubled camera. Few shooters don't know about the issue. This not only effects the shooter; it also effects resale.

You can be certain of this: Most people will want a used D610 over your oily D600. Your D600 just joined the ranks of the SB900.

Now, if the D610 is truly a new model and not just a tweaked, repaired and de-oiled D600, I'll say "okay, that's fine." But this looks more like a case where the reputation of the D600 was irreparable.

Live and learn, as they say. When the D900 is announced I won't even consider ordering one for at least 6 months. And AGAIN, my D800 works great these days, but it was not the happy experience that my D700 was.

Now I know a thing or two about business. When it comes to PR, Nikon is near to horrible. What saves them is the quality of their product in most cases. But if I bought a D600 recently I'd be pretty miffed. It basically screams "This is a now properly working D600."

Anyway...that's my view. Maybe the D610 is more than I think...or less. And maybe it's not even real. We'll see.

Robert

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ultimitsu
ultimitsu Veteran Member • Posts: 6,650
Re: D610 Slap in the Face
4

Shotcents wrote:

This not only effects the shooter; it also effects resale.

You can be certain of this: Most people will want a used D610 over your oily D600. Your D600 just joined the ranks of the SB900.

No, they are nto the same, SB900 has a heating issue, it is permanent. The oil issue on D600 is only selective, and most importantly, temporary. If you buy a second hand D600 with shutter count over 5000, as long as it is clean when you buy it, it will remain clean.

Now, if the D610 is truly a new model and not just a tweaked, repaired and de-oiled D600, I'll say "okay, that's fine." But this looks more like a case where the reputation of the D600 was irreparable.

If D610 was indeed a new model, it will surely affect D600's resale value significantly. But since it isnt, those who are looking to buy a secondhand D600 will surely do their homework and realise how it doesnt really affect secondhard D600.

Stacey_K
Stacey_K Veteran Member • Posts: 8,411
Re: D610 Slap in the Face
10

Shotcents wrote:

I'm so sorry I ordered a D800 early and will NEVER be an early adopter again.

Unfortunately this is true of a lot of products related to electronics. The update cycle is so short and the devices/software is so complex they almost always have bugs that later are resolved. I treat cameras like I do computer operating systems, I wait for "service pack 2" before I buy.

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DELETED88781 Regular Member • Posts: 127
Re: D610 Slap in the Face

Robert

Very nice post: what was the initial issues with the D800?

ChristianAdam Forum Member • Posts: 68
Re: D610 Slap in the Face

That might force the price of a used D600 down.
Meaning i can get a great D600 body for next to nothing, after ensuring that its not oily.

Considering that the oil issue is the only "update" between D600 and D610.

edit:
Early adopting is always expensive, but someone just HAVE to own that new gadget, and not the "older" model, and hands out 50-60% more for a few tweaks.
Up to them, I'm not that kind of guy (anymore), I usually end up buying whenever they are clearing stock for the next generation. That way I'ts a tested product, and any problems should be known/fixes released.

johnparas11zenfoliodotcom Senior Member • Posts: 2,214
Re: D610 Slap in the Face

sambomax wrote:

Robert

Very nice post: what was the initial issues with the D800?

The left AF issue?

Shotcents
OP Shotcents Veteran Member • Posts: 4,472
Re: D610 Slap in the Face

johnparas11zenfoliodotcom wrote:

sambomax wrote:

Robert

Very nice post: what was the initial issues with the D800?

The left AF issue?

My D800 STILL has a minor left AF issue. Nikon said it was "small" and within spec. Frankly, I don't use the outer points much so it's a non issue. And I was understandably terrified to send it in after my friends had awful experiences with their D800 units coming back in even worse shape.

But the main problem I had was repeatable back focus errors when shooting portraits. This occurred under ideal lighting with fast glass. It was not repeatable with my D700 or D3s and it was not subtle.

By comparison the D700 focus accuracy was hugely better and I generally had an AF success rate above 90%, The D800 was closer to 50%.

To varying degrees my friends had the same experience. After the firmware update my D800 performs almost identically to the D700. I no longer see the AF backfocus issue and I'm really enjoying the D800 now.

Robert

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Alan Brown
Alan Brown Veteran Member • Posts: 5,605
I gained from the early problems and
6

constant whining (after the fact) of those who have had a real problem. This is not meant to be crowing.. far from it. However I bought mine when the whining (from newer owners) died down, around April, on this forum. That made me feel justified in considering it at the current price.  I'm not convinced that in recent weeks that 'all' of the new posts claiming Oil Slicks Spraying the Sensor are real/true.

It's sad to see something that was out of my reach, financially, (at the time the D600 was around £1990 in UK) fall so drastically with it's reputation.

I can't complain at all though. It's fall from grace helped me get one at approx £1340, brand new. What is even more pleasing is the lack of dust, or anything, on the sensor.

I must be getting something going in there (shutter/sensor compartment).. I change lenses regularly and I don't live in a vacuum.

The Ultra Sonic cleaner must be doing it's job.

With last months job and another in October it will have paid for itself a couple of times. I don't care what the next FX is going to be. I'm so pleased with the hike in IQ from my D7000. I could manipulate the files, especially the shadows, to a good degree on that... but the D600 is something else.

The D610? will sell, i have no doubts, but it won't affect my purchasing schedule.

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Radu Tenenbaum
Radu Tenenbaum Senior Member • Posts: 2,886
Re: D610 Slap in the Face
2

ultimitsu wrote:

. The oil issue on D600 is only selective, and most importantly, temporary. If you buy a second hand D600 with shutter count over 5000, as long as it is clean when you buy it, it will remain clean.

Perception is reality.  Even stipulating that your assertion is correct, most potential buyers will not do the appropriate research or trust those results and the D600 will continue to carry a reputation for oiled sensors.  That may work out well (from a value perspective) for potential buyers, but not so much for current owners.

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Shotcents
OP Shotcents Veteran Member • Posts: 4,472
Re: D610 Slap in the Face
3

Based on the history, Nikon's handling of the issue and my own direct experiences I would not buy a used D600 let alone a new one.

My new 2nd body next to my D800 is a lowly D5200. When I pull out my camera I don't want problems and no amount of discount will make me risk those problems in a photographic Russian roulette of D600 buying.

That's my feelings, perhaps not entirely logical. I already lost on the D800 in certain respects. Twice burned? Not me.

Robert

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abcdefghijklmnop Senior Member • Posts: 1,098
Re: D610 Slap in the Face

Radu Tenenbaum wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

. The oil issue on D600 is only selective, and most importantly, temporary. If you buy a second hand D600 with shutter count over 5000, as long as it is clean when you buy it, it will remain clean.

Perception is reality. Even stipulating that your assertion is correct, most potential buyers will not do the appropriate research

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Radu
www.raduray.com

You are so correct, and they will not have heard anything about dirty sensor, as a result.  The world does not read DpReview.

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Dr Bob
Dr Bob Senior Member • Posts: 1,319
Re: D610 Slap in the Face
2

Shotcents wrote:

I'm so sorry I ordered a D800 early and will NEVER be an early adopter again. Today my D800 is GREAT, but that took a year of dealing with Nikon and finally getting a firmware update. Never again.

Robert

Robert

You always take a risk of being an early adopter but life's a risk.

I wanted to upgrade from an Oly system at the start of the year and spent out £5K on the D600, 80-400AFs and various other bits and I have won. Was I lucky? I dont think so. I think the majority of units were fit for purpose. Yes some bad ones but mine are perfect.

I could have spent the summer scanning the forum for news on the next best kit to buy, but instead I have had a wonderful summer of shooting birds. Life is too short to delay buying a camera while waiting for perfection.

I see your position though and with that experience I may have a different view. In the UK though we have the 'sale of goods act' where you have good recourse to a solution - much less risk which has to be factored in.

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Andy

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Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: D610 Slap in the Face
3

Stacey_K wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

I'm so sorry I ordered a D800 early and will NEVER be an early adopter again.

Unfortunately this is true of a lot of products related to electronics. The update cycle is so short and the devices/software is so complex they almost always have bugs that later are resolved. I treat cameras like I do computer operating systems, I wait for "service pack 2" before I buy.

There was a reason the phrase bleeding edge technologywas created.

However, by the time most people are selling their D600 for a new model, the splatter issue will be forgotten my most.

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buda1065 New Member • Posts: 9
Re: D610 Slap in the Face

The only way for Nikon to save face is to allow D600 users to trade their bodies in for the oil speck free D610. I am willing to pay for shipping, but shipping only. Otherwise they're the moral equivalent of carnies.

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Brian Caslis
Brian Caslis Senior Member • Posts: 2,929
I have a bridge to sell you all
5

D610 is a rumor, not a fact

Why would a mythical D610 be oil free? I've seen complaints about oil on the sensor for the D90, D7000, D800, and D600. The D600 clearly has many more complaints but a search will easily find the other complaints. You think Nikon is going to invent a force field to keep stuff off the sensor on this mythical D610?

Anyone expecting admissions of guilt, trade-ins, or other appeasements is not living in real world.

My suggestion is clean your sensor if necessary (it's really pretty easy) and go take some pictures.

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Radu Tenenbaum
Radu Tenenbaum Senior Member • Posts: 2,886
Re: D610 Slap in the Face

abcdefghijklmnop wrote:

Radu Tenenbaum wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

. The oil issue on D600 is only selective, and most importantly, temporary. If you buy a second hand D600 with shutter count over 5000, as long as it is clean when you buy it, it will remain clean.

Perception is reality. Even stipulating that your assertion is correct, most potential buyers will not do the appropriate research

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Radu
www.raduray.com

You are so correct, and they will not have heard anything about dirty sensor, as a result. The world does not read DpReview.

Touché

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Shotcents
OP Shotcents Veteran Member • Posts: 4,472
Re: D610 Slap in the Face
2

www.raduray.com

You are so correct, and they will not have heard anything about dirty sensor, as a result. The world does not read DpReview.

DPreview is a hugely popular website. If someone does not read it chances are someone they know does. And the oil spot issue was reported on MANY websites.

It's a fairly safe bet that most people buy a D600 after doing some research. Maybe a minority doesn't.

The word on the D600 is out and common knowledge. When I picked up a SB910 the salesman mentioned that it fixed the SB900 issues. And the salesman will also tell buyers that the D610 fixes the oil spot issues of the D600.

Like the D800, the D600 reputation is tainted. If you think a lot of people have not heard of these issues then you live in a bubble or travel in small circles.

Robert

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leicaman Veteran Member • Posts: 3,796
Re: D610 Slap in the Face
1

You are correct... but the D600's issue is more than evident on any Photo foru in any language you might name.  It would be harder NOT to know about it.

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Varuas Regular Member • Posts: 269
Re: D610 Slap in the Face
6

Sorry, but if you are buying DSLRs as investment vehicle, then you make horrible financial decisions.

I bought D600 as soon as it was released. Here was a full frame DSLR, which I did not have to spend $3000 for and did everything I needed. Since I was not making money off DSLRs, this was pure discretionary expense. I also knew that D600 would be worth half of my purchase price as soon as a new version comes out. Big deal. If you want your investment to appreciate in value, open a mutual fund account... good luck getting shallow DOF and low light capability with your Amerifund!

Seriously, I am not as ticked off possibly due to this dust issue not affecting me. I analyzed my apertures and 97% of my D600 shots were wider than f/8. At f/8 and wider, dust is not an issue at all. I rarely shoot narrower than f/8 considering I bought FX DSLR for shallow DOF, high ISO, etc. On occasions when I shoot landscape, even f/8 is not enough.... anything narrower than f/11 and I start getting soft images anyway. When shooting landscape, I focus stack with f/8 and do exposure stacking as well.

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leicaman Veteran Member • Posts: 3,796
Nikon's 80 year reputation has been trashed.
3

I have used Nikon equipment for the last 50 years.  I occasionally had an issue with a camera body or a lens and Nikon service would deal with it.  Hardly ever had to send something back for a re-do. All in all the camera equipment was quite well built.

Occasionaly every manufacturer has a problem...  Audi, Boeing.... but a company's reputation is made or broken by the way in which they react to these problems... especially in the age of social media.

For Nikon to have had the outright hubris to react to the D600 mess in the way they did has done them damage that may take them YEARS to repair...  My buddy with a 5D had his mirror fall off after 6 years of use.  He sent it to Canon and it was returned fixed in 4 days for free.  No questions asked.  I have heard many Nikon owners who have been told problems have been caused by "Impact Damage" which was not covered by warranty...  Well Nikon had best realize that their reputation is suffering from "Impact Damage" when they dropped the ball.

I got my money back... but I also lost the use of a $3,000+ investment for 3 months.  It will take a long time before I trust Nikon again... Just coming out with a new camera name won't do it.

Nikon had best hope that Canon doesn't start putting Sony Exmores in their D series cameras.

Nikon should can the Thai and Chinese factories and bring it all back to Japan.

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