Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY sensor

Started Aug 20, 2013 | Discussions
MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 13,824
Re: Can't believe people are defending Nikon
1

oklaphotog wrote:

Bing Chow wrote:

I must the only D700 owner on earth that has a flawless sensor after 3 year having never cleaned it.

You must not use it much, change lenses much, or especially use it in any remotely adverse conditions.

I switched lens all the time on the D300 which I've owned for more than 3 years and never had to clean the sensor. And I used it frequently.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 13,824
Re: Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY sensor
3

Jean Pierre wrote:

Venting is not helpful to us OR you.

There is a very good chance that Nikon reading the ire of its customers will not make the mistake it did with the D600 twice. So feedback like the O/P's is helping all of us in the long term.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 13,824
Re: I see the deal is back on?

leicaman wrote:

Nikon gave me a full refund only because my faulty D600 was in AS NEW condition. If it had shown wear no refund.

Now I know why.

Because all return policies from any manufacturer or store always require that the item be returned as in new condition.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 13,824
Re: NO, shoot..blue sky..@F22.
1

Bing Chow wrote:

I shot the paper @F/22. I shot the ceiling at F16 using the blurring style. Both look quite clean but not perfect. Definitely not spots that would show up in real shots viewed at 100%.

Do you really think blue sky @ F22 is going change that?

No.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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Alan Brown
Alan Brown Veteran Member • Posts: 5,532
some here WANT you to have a dusty sensor...
1

Bing Chow wrote:

rdhphoto1 wrote:

Enjoy the black blobs.

I shot the paper @F/22. I shot the ceiling at F16 using the blurring style. Both look quite clean but not perfect. Definitely not spots that would show up in real shots viewed at 100%.

Do you really think blue sky @ F22 is going change that? Maybe. I'll do it.

perhaps you could try harder to find more..

stand on one leg and then wave the camera around.. might dislodge something..  

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There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.' :'!':

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Bing Chow Senior Member • Posts: 1,494
final test: did i pass?

Okay, so it isn't blue but it is a complete overcast here today. 105mm to isolate a smaller portion of the sky so there is no chance a bird, a plane, or Superman can fly thru my frame.

MF to infinity, 1/40s, f22, aperture mode, no highlights burned, and jiggled the camera to try to blur.

Three tests and only one tiny fiber in the lower right. I'm not going to bother with it because I will introduce more dust by trying to remove it. I'll just rattle it with ultrasonic from time to time. When was the last time I took a meaningful shot at f22??!?!?

Bing Chow Senior Member • Posts: 1,494
Re: some here WANT you to have a dusty sensor...

Alan Brown wrote:

Bing Chow wrote:

rdhphoto1 wrote:

Enjoy the black blobs.

I shot the paper @F/22. I shot the ceiling at F16 using the blurring style. Both look quite clean but not perfect. Definitely not spots that would show up in real shots viewed at 100%.

Do you really think blue sky @ F22 is going change that? Maybe. I'll do it.

perhaps you could try harder to find more..

stand on one leg and then wave the camera around.. might dislodge something..

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There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.' :'!':

Maybe I'll go photog someone woodworking, changing central vac canisters, coal miners, rally car races. That should properly put my D700 thru its paces. Because right now, it hasn't had a fulfilling life. Vacuum packed, hermetically sealed, and stored in a cool, dry place is no way to treat a camera

MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 13,824
Re: final test: did i pass?

IMO it was worth doing the test to put this concern behind you. You have a good one. Enjoy the D600 !

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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Bing Chow Senior Member • Posts: 1,494
Re: final test: did i pass?
1

I have a D700. My point was that a well designed camera under normal usage should not accumulate dust to the point of requiring cleaning every 3K shots. And I don't think every D600 affected by this problem was poorly handled or abused.

CFrans W Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: final test: did i pass?

This is your picture as seen in LR5 with "Visualize Spots"

Bing Chow Senior Member • Posts: 1,494
Re: final test: did i pass?
1

CFrans W wrote:

This is your picture as seen in LR5 with "Visualize Spots"

I tried that with the RAW image and yeah, when I crank it up, I do see what appears to be the night sky, minus the lines. I don't see the lines that looks like a topo map but you were working off a down rez jpeg.

Anyways, if you're going this far, you're probably gonna find spots off of a brand new camera, off the 1st actuation. If I can't see it in a blank sky at f22 @ 100% then they don't exist. At more reasonable apertures, with real content, my sensor is practically spotless.

1w12q312qw1 Contributing Member • Posts: 732
Re: final test: did i pass?

Bing Chow wrote:

CFrans W wrote:

I tried that with the RAW image and yeah, when I crank it up, I do see what appears to be the night sky, minus the lines. I don't see the lines that looks like a topo map but you were working off a down rez jpeg.

Anyways, if you're going this far, you're probably gonna find spots off of a brand new camera, off the 1st actuation. If I can't see it in a blank sky at f22 @ 100% then they don't exist. At more reasonable apertures, with real content, my sensor is practically spotless.

Bing,

Take your original test shot into Photoshop and run auto-levels. I see about 50 specks of dust plus a blob of something in the lower right corner. If you're happy with that, more power to you. But how dirty does it have to get before you have it cleaned? Jus' askin'.

Stan

Bing Chow Senior Member • Posts: 1,494
Re: final test: did i pass?

1w12q312qw1 wrote:

Take your original test shot into Photoshop and run auto-levels.

I don't use PS. What is the LR5 equivalent of auto-levels?

I see about 50 specks of dust plus a blob of something in the lower right corner.

I do see a fiber in the lower right. I have already noted that in earlier replies.

If you're happy with that, more power to you.

I don't want to come across as sloppy or not caring about quality. Everyone's tolerance level is a little different. Everyone's goals are a little different. Our ability to find those specks are apparently different. Our computers are probably different, screen size is different, etc. I'm viewing my images on a MBP 15" retina. I routinely go to 100-200% to clone things out, but not necessarily dust.

But how dirty does it have to get before you have it cleaned? Jus' askin'.

Stan

The bar I set is this: When I see it in actual images, not test images, and cloning them out begins to slow down my workflow, then it's worth a professional cleaning. I'm not a heavy shooter so even if I have to clone out 12 dots, it doesn't bother me. As my experience builds, or if I start selling images and clients demand cleaner work, or if higher pixel counts reveal more contamination, then that bar has to be raised.

But truth is, I shoot for myself. And so far, I have yet to find a speck in actual processing, which is why it took me 17000 shots to learn how to do this test. I never found reason to do it.

Carl Maiorino Senior Member • Posts: 1,957
Actually...
1

...My D3 has the filthiest sensor of any Nikon I have ever used.  After several years, I am still cleaning oil spots off from it.  Annoying, but they are easy to deal (and very difficult to even see wider than f11) with so I don't complain about this with this otherwise fine camera.

Carl Maiorino Senior Member • Posts: 1,957
I Will Say This...
2

...It seems an awful lot of people are posting about oild/dust after the "white wall test" at f16 and smaller.

How many of them tested their other cameras like this?  My D90 is maybe the only camera that *might* have passed this test...my D3, D700, and D2Hs wouldn't stand a chance...they would show both oil spots and dust spots.

How many people would even know they have an issue if they didn't look for it?  I see alot of images like the one the OP posted (and I agree that shouldn't happen with a new camera) but can he or any others post a normal image to see if the spots are still visible?  My point is that my D700 looks very clean until I go looking for spots.  My D3 will show them even at f5.6 on a white wall or blue sky but they are very faint and easily cleaned up in seconds in post.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't think this is a new problem...I think alot of the occurrences of it are people who are really looking for it specifically for the first time.  Maybe alot of long-time users have just gotten used to having to deal with it like dust on negatives while printing in the darkroom...I do NOT miss that little bottle of SpotTone.

Jim Chuan Forum Member • Posts: 68
Re: Recent Adorama Ebay D600 "deal"-- FILTHY senjujustsor
1

Just received my refurbished D600 from Adorama. Took picture at f22 found 1 spot on extreme left, nothing from f11. To me it is acceptable, I very seldom use f22.

I currently have a  D300 and D7100 I was going to get the D600 instead of the 7100, however, the initial response to the dust and oil spot scared me off. Following the forum for all this months all the feed backs seems to say the 600 is  a great camera except the dust problem , with the $800 odd dollar discount I decided to take a chance so far I am ok with it.

Alpha Tech Regular Member • Posts: 406
Re: probably Adorama's lovely policies
2

Adorama is well known for reselling Used items as New. I recently placed an order with them only because B&H was out of stock. When I checked my order history I found that over 4 years had passed since my last order. I had stopped buying things from Adorama because of their deceptive practice. It might be another 4 years before I order from them again.

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Alpha Tech Regular Member • Posts: 406
You are not the only one!
1

Carl Maiorino wrote:

...My D3 has the filthiest sensor of any Nikon I have ever used. After several years, I am still cleaning oil spots off from it.

The oil and dust problem began with the D3. Nikon developed a lubricant that extends shutter life. This is why a Nikon DSLR has a lifespan of 400,000 actuations while oil-free competitor cameras have only 200,000 actuations for their shutter life.

My D3 began having the oil and dust problem after several thousand actuations. By the time it reached 20,000 actuations I was really tired of the constant wet cleanings. I had to clean the sensor before every shooting session. The camera never made it to 30,000 actuations. I was sick of the problem and disgusted with Nikon's attitude that the problem was non-existent. My patience had worn thin and I sold the D3. After switching to brands, chances are I might never own another expensive Nikon camera again. I now shoot Sony on the high end and Nikon on the mirrorless low end.

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Brian Caslis
Brian Caslis Senior Member • Posts: 2,927
Re: You are not the only one!

Alpha Tech wrote:

Carl Maiorino wrote:

...My D3 has the filthiest sensor of any Nikon I have ever used. After several years, I am still cleaning oil spots off from it.

The oil and dust problem began with the D3. Nikon developed a lubricant that extends shutter life. This is why a Nikon DSLR has a lifespan of 400,000 actuations while oil-free competitor cameras have only 200,000 actuations for their shutter life.

My D3 began having the oil and dust problem after several thousand actuations. By the time it reached 20,000 actuations I was really tired of the constant wet cleanings. I had to clean the sensor before every shooting session. The camera never made it to 30,000 actuations. I was sick of the problem and disgusted with Nikon's attitude that the problem was non-existent. My patience had worn thin and I sold the D3. After switching to brands, chances are I might never own another expensive Nikon camera again. I now shoot Sony on the high end and Nikon on the mirrorless low end.

So you would rather have the shutter fail sooner and have to pay for that repair then do a simple wet clean which would take a few minutes? OK, that's your privilege. Hopefully you can see that someone else might have a different opinion.

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Absolutic
Absolutic Veteran Member • Posts: 5,325
Reporting my D600

Received my D600 from Adorama.   Happy to report that 1) the shutter count was ZERO, the first shot I took with it is registering as shot number 1 on a Mac Inspector.   Nice.   I took a photo of my wall at F22 and found a few really faint spots which I can only see if pixel peeping at 100% and that do not bother me at all.     Very happy with everything other than the grip of D600 for some reason makes my middle finger hurt as I am holding it as the grip becomes smaller at the spot when the middle finger is holding.  For some reason i don't remember this problem in my former D300 or D700, or the Canons.     Nor I can remember that issue with D7000.    On the other hand the picture quality is superb.

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