RAW n' JPEG

Started Aug 13, 2013 | Discussions
Erational Regular Member • Posts: 184
RAW n' JPEG

Having shot and processed RAW in SPP for a couple of months, I was shocked when I went back to in-camera JPEG shots. Compared to my Sigma DP 3M RAWs, the JPEGS are beautiful, with accurate color, deep blues, grass that is green instead of yellow, reds that are not blown-out, and blessed in-control highlights. Unfortunately, resolution is cameraphone-level with the straight-to-JPEG mode (Fine).

My efforts at altering the DP's TIFFs in DXO FilmPack 3 have resulted in a loss in resolution and a loss of that treasured 3-D-ness we enjoy so much from our Sigmas.

I want it all- the lovely, true-to-life color/tonal rendition of the in-camera JPEG engine and the resolution of the RAW output. I have tried all the in-camera color modes and mucking-about with the SPP color wheel/sliders et cetera- all to no avail. Has anyone out there cracked the code?  What successful workflows out there will help me leave behind the yucky Sigma RAW native colors ?

PrebenR Veteran Member • Posts: 4,146
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Can you provide a sample RAW + JPG file? Impossible to help otherwise.

-- hide signature --

Lightwriting with Sigma

victorgv Senior Member • Posts: 1,663
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Try work more in SPP and do fine adjustments in something else. Remember highlite recovery is possible only under SPP all additional recoverable info which is still in RAW get lost when you save as TIF only part recovered in SPP get saved as tif or jpeg or whatever.

Erational wrote:

Having shot and processed RAW in SPP for a couple of months, I was shocked when I went back to in-camera JPEG shots. Compared to my Sigma DP 3M RAWs, the JPEGS are beautiful, with accurate color, deep blues, grass that is green instead of yellow, reds that are not blown-out, and blessed in-control highlights. Unfortunately, resolution is cameraphone-level with the straight-to-JPEG mode (Fine).

My efforts at altering the DP's TIFFs in DXO FilmPack 3 have resulted in a loss in resolution and a loss of that treasured 3-D-ness we enjoy so much from our Sigmas.

I want it all- the lovely, true-to-life color/tonal rendition of the in-camera JPEG engine and the resolution of the RAW output. I have tried all the in-camera color modes and mucking-about with the SPP color wheel/sliders et cetera- all to no avail. Has anyone out there cracked the code? What successful workflows out there will help me leave behind the yucky Sigma RAW native colors ?

 victorgv's gear list:victorgv's gear list
Sigma DP1 Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma dp2 Quattro
SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Which camera are you using? FWIW using SPP alone, no further program, I can usually match color pretty much spot-on of JPEG and a processed RAW to JPEG. In fact I think my RAW to JPEGs are usually a lot better than my in-cam JPEGs. And more fine detail is captured/shown via the RAW.

I have many double examples on flickr, ie in-cam JPEG and a processed RAW. You might wish to have a look at those in my DP2Merrill set for example or the ones I have in travel Hawaii set thus far. Good exposure is the key IMHO, then using SPP.

First check/choose/change if necessary your white balance.
Then color mode, I tend to use standard.
Then colorwheel if necessary
Then sliders.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current, sets mentioned)

 SandyF's gear list:SandyF's gear list
Sigma DP2 Sigma DP1 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill +7 more
OP Erational Regular Member • Posts: 184
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Sandy, I make mention of using the DP 3m in the first paragraph. To the other poster, using the color wheel has taken me further from color accuracy and I can't replicate the nice colors of the internal JPEG engine.

PrebenR Veteran Member • Posts: 4,146
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Read this: http://x3magazine.com/2013/02/not-all-white-balances-are-created-equal/

-- hide signature --

Lightwriting with Sigma

xpatUSA
xpatUSA Forum Pro • Posts: 15,316
Re: RAW n' JPEG

PrebenR wrote:

Read this: http://x3magazine.com/2013/02/not-all-white-balances-are-created-equal/

Thanks for the link, very interesting site!

Hopefully the OP is planning to post a sample somewhere, sometime . .

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Ted http://kronometric.org
SD9, SD10, EF-500, GH1.

 xpatUSA's gear list:xpatUSA's gear list
Sigma DP2 Sigma DP2 Merrill Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Sigma SD15 +18 more
SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Erational wrote:

Sandy, I make mention of using the DP 3m in the first paragraph. To the other poster, using the color wheel has taken me further from color accuracy and I can't replicate the nice colors of the internal JPEG engine.

Sorry, I missed that. Still, DP3Merrill or DP2Merrill, with experience with SPP you should be able to match your output. The cameras are not that terribly different, especially since with same sensor. If for example you'd had been using an older camera, that might be different, although I've pretty much been able to get the 'color' I want from them all in SPP.... SD14 being the hardest though. Reds can be the trickiest. Greens just need some fine tuning sometimes; I do a LOT with green and blue (landscapes and naturals).

Photo examples, as well as more detailed shooting info, would really help readers help you though, if you wish.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmannn (current)

 SandyF's gear list:SandyF's gear list
Sigma DP2 Sigma DP1 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill +7 more
Johan Borg Senior Member • Posts: 2,772
Re: RAW n' JPEG

You can (relatively) easily get the colors of JPEG combined with the detail of RAW by using a photo editor with layers and select blending mode Color when the JPEG is on top and the RAW output is the bottom layer.

If you feel that the RAW is a bit too detailed, maceoQ proposed a variation over it here, by using a B&W RAW output as the bottom layer:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3531075

Note: Before doing any of this I suggest you set the in-camera sharpening to minimum because the in-camera sharpening adds more artifacts than SPP.

whisky Senior Member • Posts: 1,839
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Note: Before doing any of this I suggest you set the in-camera sharpening to minimum because the in-camera sharpening adds more artifacts than SPP.

Hi Johan,

Can you clear up the 'Picture Setting' menu for me.  (SD15)

Is the Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness adjustments on this menu applied to 'RAW' files or just 'JPEG' files or both ?

I know that RGB or sRGB is selectable from this menu.

Thanks,

Cheers.

 whisky's gear list:whisky's gear list
Sigma SD15 Fujifilm FinePix 6900 Zoom Olympus OM-D E-M5 Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO DG Macro +5 more
Johan Borg Senior Member • Posts: 2,772
Re: RAW n' JPEG

whisky wrote:

Note: Before doing any of this I suggest you set the in-camera sharpening to minimum because the in-camera sharpening adds more artifacts than SPP.

Hi Johan,

Can you clear up the 'Picture Setting' menu for me. (SD15)

Is the Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness adjustments on this menu applied to 'RAW' files or just 'JPEG' files or both ?

Both separate JPEGs and the preview JPEG in the RAW file itself are affected by these settings.

In addition, they are applied as default values ("X3F" settings) in the RAW file, but these can be changed again once you open the RAW in Sigma Photo Pro, they are entirely reversible.

xpatUSA
xpatUSA Forum Pro • Posts: 15,316
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Erational wrote:

. . . Unfortunately, resolution is cameraphone-level with the straight-to-JPEG mode (Fine) . . .

I want it all- the lovely, true-to-life color/tonal rendition of the in-camera JPEG engine and the resolution of the RAW output.

On this site, the SD1M (same sensor as the DP3M) tested in JPEG mode at twice the resolution of my well-respected Samsung Galaxy SII cellphone camera: about 2800 LPH versus 1400 LPH. And the RAW resolution was little different to JPEG for the SD1M.

So, is the DP3M that different to the SD1M?

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Ted http://kronometric.org
SD9, SD10, EF-500, GH1.

 xpatUSA's gear list:xpatUSA's gear list
Sigma DP2 Sigma DP2 Merrill Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Sigma SD15 +18 more
dmaclau Senior Member • Posts: 2,841
Re: RAW n' JPEG
2

this is confusing. On a couple of points I think you're spot on but others are quite different from my experience. I regularly shoot RAW+JPG and when I find a print worthy image I process the RAW file to JPG with SPP. I'm getting just about the same images either way

I have noticed over the last few years that camera manufacturers have each made great improvements to their in-camera engines and with the DP3 I see the same with Sigma. My re-process is mostly an exercise.... There is usually some brightness difference but other than that.... Files are the same size, colors are remarkably close. Occasionally I get a bit more glow of sorts with the SPP processed file. So I guess I don't understand the differences you experience.

Of course I'm a stickler for getting it right in-camera. My exposures are almost always spot on and I check and re check white balance on a continual basis. I have little regard or respect for the idea that if shooting in RAW then white balance isn't important. To me that's just sloppy.

You mentioned Film Pack, a favorite of mine, I also noticed that it's not bringing the magic it brings to my Bayer images. In fact, most third party software doesn't. I think that's because the magic is already there with my Foveon images.

 dmaclau's gear list:dmaclau's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sony RX100 III Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R +4 more
whisky Senior Member • Posts: 1,839
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Johan Borg wrote:

whisky wrote:

Note: Before doing any of this I suggest you set the in-camera sharpening to minimum because the in-camera sharpening adds more artifacts than SPP.

Hi Johan,

Can you clear up the 'Picture Setting' menu for me. (SD15)

Is the Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness adjustments on this menu applied to 'RAW' files or just 'JPEG' files or both ?

Both separate JPEGs and the preview JPEG in the RAW file itself are affected by these settings.

In addition, they are applied as default values ("X3F" settings) in the RAW file, but these can be changed again once you open the RAW in Sigma Photo Pro, they are entirely reversible.

Thanks Johan,

Cheers.  

 whisky's gear list:whisky's gear list
Sigma SD15 Fujifilm FinePix 6900 Zoom Olympus OM-D E-M5 Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO DG Macro +5 more
SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: RAW n' JPEG

Johan Borg wrote:

whisky wrote:

Note: Before doing any of this I suggest you set the in-camera sharpening to minimum because the in-camera sharpening adds more artifacts than SPP.

Hi Johan,

Can you clear up the 'Picture Setting' menu for me. (SD15)

Is the Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness adjustments on this menu applied to 'RAW' files or just 'JPEG' files or both ?

Both separate JPEGs and the preview JPEG in the RAW file itself are affected by these settings.

Johan, I'm under the impression that the Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness adjustments for the in-cam settings only affect the JPEG not the RAW. Contrast may affect the histogram, as it's based on the JPEG not RAW.

In addition, they are applied as default values ("X3F" settings) in the RAW file, but these can be changed again once you open the RAW in Sigma Photo Pro, they are entirely reversible.

Right I think, the RAW DATA itself wouldn't actually be different based on those 3 above in-cam settings, but the default OPENING in SPP might differ, say in auto bullet, but not in X3F bullet... (??)

On my cameras, I used to keep the contrast and saturation a notch higher than default, but now I don't bother, as I generally do not use the in-cam JPEGs except for catalog purposes. I process RAW to JPEG.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

 SandyF's gear list:SandyF's gear list
Sigma DP2 Sigma DP1 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill +7 more
Johan Borg Senior Member • Posts: 2,772
Re: RAW n' JPEG

SandyF wrote:

Johan Borg wrote:

whisky wrote:

Note: Before doing any of this I suggest you set the in-camera sharpening to minimum because the in-camera sharpening adds more artifacts than SPP.

Hi Johan,

Can you clear up the 'Picture Setting' menu for me. (SD15)

Is the Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness adjustments on this menu applied to 'RAW' files or just 'JPEG' files or both ?

Both separate JPEGs and the preview JPEG in the RAW file itself are affected by these settings.

Johan, I'm under the impression that the Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness adjustments for the in-cam settings only affect the JPEG not the RAW. Contrast may affect the histogram, as it's based on the JPEG not RAW.

All of them affect the preview JPEG inside the RAW, and therefore should affect the histogram, I agree.

In addition, they are applied as default values ("X3F" settings) in the RAW file, but these can be changed again once you open the RAW in Sigma Photo Pro, they are entirely reversible.

Right I think, the RAW DATA itself wouldn't actually be different based on those 3 above in-cam settings, but the default OPENING in SPP might differ, say in auto bullet, but not in X3F bullet... (??)

No, it's the opposite: The X3F bullet is changed by the in-camera settings for contrast/sharpening/saturation. Auto is not affected by these settings, but it *is* affected by the color mode chosen in the camera (which again, you can change in SPP afterwards).

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads