As an enthusiast the camera market is depressing.

Started Aug 13, 2013 | Discussions
mgd43 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,322
Re: There has never been a better time to be an enthusiast
1

John, two cameras that might interest you are the Fujifilm HS50EXR and HS35EXR. They have 1/2 inch sensors and manual zoom rings. I have an HS20EXR. It's a very good bridge camera similar to the HS35EXR. I prefer my D5200 not because the HS20EXR is not good, but because I like the D5200 even more. I definately recommend the Fujifilm HS series to anyone wanting a bridge camera.

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T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 20,792
Re: He's an equipment whiner, not a photographer.

John Miles wrote:

Missing the point entirely. Though you do recognise that dark ages equipment has improved. But what I see are sub DSLR's that only go so far in generating true enthusiast options.

You're not an "true enthusiast."  You're an equipment whiner.  If it's not one thing, it'll be another thing you'll be whining about.  There are plenty of great options out there, but you're just not looking hard enough.  Or maybe you don't want to look, because then you'd have nothing to whine about.  An artist and enthusiast doesn't sit around blaming the equipment and the manufacturers for his own lack of skill, capability, or whatever.  You're simply using the equipment as a scapegoat for your own inadequacies.  Doers do, whiners whine.

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(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 650
Whining aside, we're in the best and worst of times.
1

John Miles wrote:

The more I look at it the more I can see the poor state the camera market is in. From inclusion of movie potential in camera design to the wasteland that is the manual zoom superzoom market, I have many personal reasons to consider the camera choice before me ZERO. But I am certain that, for whatever reasons, I am not alone in considering the market flooded yet optionless.

OK, John Miles, you're kind of a whiner, here.

(And, the "manual zoom superzoom market" isn't targeted at "enthusiasts," with good reason: enthusiasts usually aren't very enthusiastic about lenses that bottom out at f/5.6.)

But your rant swirls haphazardly around kernel of truth with which I agree: for all of the wonderful advances they've brought us, the camera makers are engaging in some epic fails.

(1) Workflow, workflow, workflow.

* Why can't Canon, or Nikon, or Sony, or anyone (!!) create a native software package with the convenience and capability of Lightroom or Aperture?   I know it's possible to set up Lightroom or whatever to get the results you want to get; but why should RAW processing so often be a freaking Sophie's Choice?   You go with the OEM and you get full interpretation of camera data OR go with third party and get smooth, fast workflow, but you can't have both.  In this day and age of drones delivering tacos, WTF?!?!  I mean: for all the time they've spent f#@!ing around with the worthless Nikon "1" system that they're now whining about--imagine if they'd put a tenth of those resources into the byzantine mess that is the Transfer NX-View NX2-Capture NX "suite."

* Why can't Canon or Nikon or Sony or anyone (!!) make it as easy to zap a photograph from a DSLR to the web as it is to zap a smartphone shot?   I know the 6D's WiFi gets us relatively close to that, but why has it taken this long?   And if I want to do it with Nikon, why does it involve a gimpy dongle?  It really can't be built-in, Nikon?!?

(2) Quality Control.

* Crazy, stupid out-of-the-box dust issues on D7000, D600 sensors.  D800 outer focus point misalignments. The D7000 backfocus brouhaha.  Canon's toxic rubber grips.  The 5DIII's bizarro meter light leak.  I mean, *COME ON*.

* Nikon's recent service decisions--no sale of simple parts like straps, battery doors, etc.; no licensing of third party operations; etc. are NUTS.   I've had satisfactory results from Nikon service, but the work took weeks rather than days.

(3) Marketing-driven spec gimping.

* D600 and 6D AF systems are just silly.  Spend 2K for a camera and, in Nikon's case, get a proportionally smaller version of $600 D5200's AF?  In Canon's case, get their *worst* AF system, period?  (Correct me if I'm wrong, Canonites, but even Rebels, these days, have cross-type outer points, right?)   Why can't they tier their systems according to capability or intended use?   Case in point: the MacBook AIR isn't a "gimped" MacBook Pro--it's half as thick, has twice the battery life!

When I add these three issues up, I get the sense that the major manufacturers just aren't that engaged in product.   They're just not that interested in "surprising or delighting" us with solutions to the real outstanding problems; instead, it seems that product gets developed according to what the marketers believe they can profitably sell.   Compare that philosophy with companies who challenge their marketers to sell what they believe it's possible to make.

Anywho, the economic grim reaper's coming for them, since we (literally) aren't buying the bullish/t.  And I suspect that after the invisible hand's "correction," we'll see a turnaround on issues 1, 2, and 3 from the players that remain, if not some surprise and delight in other areas, too.

M.

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 20,792
Re: As an enthusiast the camera market is depressing.
1

John Miles wrote:

Were no relevant discussion attempted. As it is though I genuinely see great holes in the sub DSLR market, which have either been brought to my attention in posts by others, or I have discovered when trying to find a camera for myself.

Time to grow up, Johnny-boy.  No one is going to custom-design a camera just for you.  And even if they did, you'd whine that it was too expensive, or too whatever.  If you are looking for compromise and imperfection in products, you'll always find them.  That also applies to the DSLR market, too.  It appears that you are suffering from the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome, where you seem to think everything is perfect, and every need/whim/desire is fullfilled, in the DSLR world.  Not so.  That's simply immature, childish thinking.  There are always "holes" if you look for holes.  There's always something to complain or whine about, even in the DSLR segment: too big, too small, too expensive, not this, not that, missing this, missing that, blah blah blah.  Stop crying like a sniveling baby.  You make your choice, choose your tool, learn your tool, develop your skill, them just shut up and shoot.  That's what *real* photo enthusiasts do.

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Mahmoud Mousef Senior Member • Posts: 2,604
special needs, not poor camera market

John Miles wrote:

I simply detest the fact that in being an enthusiast I am placed in a minority that has little bearing in the way manufacturers design and promote cameras.

Lots of enthusiasts will disagree. You want manual zoom in a superzoom. If you want this, it will be hard to get, granted. Would a model like the DMC-FZ50 even be considered a superzoom today (12x)?

Nikon's 1 system has the potential to be the quality superzoom of today, or at least that sensor size does (more than other mirrorless offerings). But no manual zoom (but you do have speed variable motor zoom), and I guess there's no technical reason stopping someone from using this sensor size for a modern DMC-FZ50.

Nikon's 10-100 for the Nikon 1 system costs a fair bit for that range. Of course some manufacturer could make it cheaper and offer a better interface than what Nikon is doing with its too-scared-to-make-enthusiast-controls-on-a-mirrorless-camera ways.

http://www.photozone.de/nikon1/701-1nikon101004556v1?ModPagespeed=noscript

"Compared to other Nikon 1 lenses, the Nikkor 10-100 VR is unusually large. In fact, even when retracted, the lens isn't really smaller than for example a Nikon AF-S DX 18-200 and even larger than some full-frame super zooms available (like the Tamron 28-300 non-VC). There is one feature, however, that is unique in this lens class: once extended and operational, the physical length of the lens remains constant, regardless of the focal length and focus distance chosen. Any other super zoom currently available significantly extends when zooming towards the tele end of the zoom range."

locke_fc Senior Member • Posts: 1,044
Re: As an enthusiast the camera market is depressing.
1

All this just because an upgrade to your choice camera, the FZ50, which has been superseeded in every possible way by more compact, versatile and/or capable offerings, has not been produced?

You may want to expand your world view a little. There's never been such a varied choice of amazing cameras of all kinds.

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Fer

John Miles
OP John Miles Veteran Member • Posts: 6,919
Re: But did you EVER find the perfect camera for all people?

zackiedawg wrote:

John Miles wrote:

Yes, agreed. But in other replies here I have alluded to problems in camera selection that could easily be fixed. To say something different here, why is it that what I loosely term 'over styling' seems to feature so heavily sub DSLR sensor sizes? I realise this generates sales, but for example why is there not a simple, affordable DSLR sized and styled body for the Sony Nex lenses? Sony could easily release an SLT body adapted and styled for NEX lenses, but where is it?

Ironically, that's much what the rumor mills are currently churning about...both an upcoming full-frame NEX body, as well as a lower-frills, entry level 'DSLR' style e-mount body. And of course, with Sony having nixed the SLT line in favor of the upcoming next-gen Alpha mirrorless, that becomes something else in the mix - the larger, heavier Alpha and Minolta lenses, but mirrorless body, and an outside rumor of a hybrid A/E mount (though unknown if that's to involve a removable adapter of some form for A-mount use, or some movable device or part.

Well that sounds more like it. This kind of equipment shuffle you describe looks to throw some decent regular style camera bodies into some lens areas.

Of course, in M4:3 mount, one does already have the option to go with the slimline-style bodies, or the chunkier DSLR-like bodies.

Yes I look upon the GH3 as a good body, but at a premium price. I can't afford that and it's the only one with a half decent grip.

Which is exactly what I expect many would wish to have available at smaller sensor sizes. It just isn't there though.

I wonder though if that plays to too small a niche.

It must be so. And I suggest that the way the American buyers are shunning the smaller sensors, perhaps the idea that people wanting to handle serious camera hardware but with a sub DSLR sensor size is too far from credible, when in fact for wide DOF in both long zoom and macro work it's pretty handy. And lenses are smaller.

Consider the M4:3 line and how the slimmer bodies seem to vastly outsell the chunky gripped Panasonic mini-DSLR bodies, or the failure of the Oly 4:3 line, or the Pentax K01, which though it had an APS-C sensor did try to provide a more fat-bodied style to a mirrorless camera, and was met with a clunk and silence.

And on this point you seal the lid. In the end the market talks doesn't it. My perception of a working camera for me is geared too much to the past, with a wish for smaller sensored versions of DSLR cameras old fashioned.

Even I consider myself a bit unusual in that I do like a large-bodied camera with a very deep, substantial grip - there are fewer and fewer of us out there, but most seem to be the enthusiasts who buy DSLRs and use them for more than green-box auto shooting. Yet, when it comes to mirrorless cameras, I have no interest at all in a thicker body - I want it very small and light...the only difference is, I think small and light can still have a decent one-handed grippability, so I like a fairly pronounced bit to wrap my fingers around.

I value your thoughts here. The grip for me works beyond image capture, into endurance of operation; like a good motorcycle saddle. Where a saddle is rated in hours to numb bum, so I appreciate a grip that allows easy long term camera handling both in capture and carry between shots.

The NEX 5-7 lines do better in this regard for me than the NEX3 line, or most M4:3 bodies. If I went M4:3 or EOS, I'd almost certainly be investing in aftermarket grip extensions as it is something I consider important to my comfort when carrying the camera for long periods...I often relax my grip on the body and hang the camera off my fingertips by curling around the grip. It takes a substantial grip to do so, and whether DSLR or mirrorless, large or small body, I consider this a must.

You and me both. I think I need to keep second party grips in the mix when looking at camera selection.

My two-camera strategy used to involve a DSLR and a P&S - but when it came down to it, the smaller sensors were just too much IQ compromise for me, and outweighed the advantages of the small body. Since pocketability is not important to me at all, a mirrorless APS-C ended up fitting the bill nicely - large enough to handle comfortably, no IQ compromise, and yet still substantially smaller than my DSLR whether body only or with a collection of lenses included. Would I want a smaller sensor in a larger body? No, I can't say I would...how many others would is key to whether a camera manufacturer will pursue that niche. I have my doubts - it seems larger sensors in either small or large bodies are the two key directions most enthusiasts seem to be pointing in interchangeable lens cameras, and ever mode compact large sensor fixed lens cameras for those who don't want to change lenses to drive the P&S market onwards as phones and tablets infringe more and more on the entry-level and non-enthusiast consumer market.

I consider the only reasonable way forward to be a two camera carry round, which will mean neck straps. A good large sensored, small bodied, short lensed camera, and an M4/3 with a long lens to max out D of F for my needs. On assessing that an achievable shot is possible, I can select camera pretty much instantly, and both cameras will be manually lensed for fast start up. It just seems one hell of a bulk up in kit to achieve what I do currently in the one camera. But then that's music to the manufacturer's ears isn't it.

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__________________________________________________________________________
The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright, non-extending Leica 35-420mm F2.8-3.7 lens. I live in hope that Mr Ichiro Kitao, Mr Michiharu Uematsu and Mr Yoshiyuki Inoue have triggered the update to the FZ50. Please update the FZ50. It is unique and users of it cannot update without compromise of one or more of its combination of features. Full tribute here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=42366095 . Performace diagram here: http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3862228415/photos/2623982/fz50-performance-range

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Toccata47 Senior Member • Posts: 2,800
Aren't you a little old to make a post like this?

John Miles wrote:

I simply detest the fact that in being an enthusiast I am placed in a minority that has little bearing in the way manufacturers design and promote cameras.

You aren't. Witness fuji's x series, nikon A, ricoh gr, sony's rx series, panasonic gx series, olympus om-d and similar, sigma's sd series...

These cameras are selling well. It's the compact market that is feeling the sting, rightly so.

It appears to me now that the only viable equipment route is DSLR. Beyond that the often truly pathetic camera designs that are released offer no redeeming qualities that might tempt the enthusiast.

Okay. Hyperbole is for idiots.

Why do camera designers fail so comprehensively to create and maintain a check list of camera features that build into a competent camera? It is infuriating when a design is released with 5 of 6 of the major points you were looking for. For a market so diverse you would think that options beyond the DSLR would be available.

Yes, that is infuriating! If only they custom designed a camera just for you! Surely everyone would buy it and his would save the camera companies!

Come on.

The small in the hands, small focal range camera abounds, with countless options available. Why are so few trying to be different if they are already struggling with current sales? There are gaping holes in the camera supply market that are not being explored. Where are the superzoom 4/3's? Where are the full frame compacts? Where is the wealth of 2/3" cameras.

I know people will instantly respond with a host of reasons why a certain type will not happen, but that is irrelevant. The camera market is suffering and the manufacturers need to experiment.

Why post on a discussion forum then?

Why did Olympus make in body IS and Panasonic in lens IS? Why did they bother agreeing the 4/3" format and then cock that bit up? Somewhere along the line error is building on error to make long term camera ownership a shambles. Who is prepared to commit to a camera system that might not be there next year? How many of us can actually genuinely afford to change entire systems THAT often.

Many can and do replace their "systems" on an annual basis if you follow the threads. Who's to judge?

The more I look at it the more I can see the poor state the camera market is in. From inclusion of movie potential in camera design to the wasteland that is the manual zoom superzoom market, I have many personal reasons to consider the camera choice before me ZERO. But I am certain that, for whatever reasons, I am not alone in considering the market flooded yet optionless.

Cool. One less troll.

If you're interested in taking pictures or buying a camera this is a pretty good time. The cameras are better now than they have ever been as is the range of options.

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__________________________________________________________________________
The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright, non-extending Leica 35-420mm F2.8-3.7 lens. I live in hope that Mr Ichiro Kitao, Mr Michiharu Uematsu and Mr Yoshiyuki Inoue have triggered the update to the FZ50. Please update the FZ50. It is unique and users of it cannot update without compromise of one or more of its combination of features. Full tribute here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=42366095 . Performace diagram here: http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3862228415/photos/2623982/fz50-performance-range

sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 11,835
Re: Aren't you a little old to make a post like this?

Being an adult means making decisions even if they are not easy. The OP must be starving to death from the agony of having to choose what to eat in the morning. He wants the perfect camera but has no money. What an idiot

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DrA
DrA Regular Member • Posts: 236
Re: Whining aside, we're in the best and worst of times.
1

MarkJH wrote:

John Miles wrote:

The more I look at it the more I can see the poor state the camera market is in. From inclusion of movie potential in camera design to the wasteland that is the manual zoom superzoom market, I have many personal reasons to consider the camera choice before me ZERO. But I am certain that, for whatever reasons, I am not alone in considering the market flooded yet optionless.

OK, John Miles, you're kind of a whiner, here.

(And, the "manual zoom superzoom market" isn't targeted at "enthusiasts," with good reason: enthusiasts usually aren't very enthusiastic about lenses that bottom out at f/5.6.)

But your rant swirls haphazardly around kernel of truth with which I agree: for all of the wonderful advances they've brought us, the camera makers are engaging in some epic fails.

(1) Workflow, workflow, workflow.

* Why can't Canon, or Nikon, or Sony, or anyone (!!) create a native software package with the convenience and capability of Lightroom or Aperture? I know it's possible to set up Lightroom or whatever to get the results you want to get; but why should RAW processing so often be a freaking Sophie's Choice? You go with the OEM and you get full interpretation of camera data OR go with third party and get smooth, fast workflow, but you can't have both. In this day and age of drones delivering tacos, WTF?!?! I mean: for all the time they've spent f#@!ing around with the worthless Nikon "1" system that they're now whining about--imagine if they'd put a tenth of those resources into the byzantine mess that is the Transfer NX-View NX2-Capture NX "suite."

* Why can't Canon or Nikon or Sony or anyone (!!) make it as easy to zap a photograph from a DSLR to the web as it is to zap a smartphone shot? I know the 6D's WiFi gets us relatively close to that, but why has it taken this long? And if I want to do it with Nikon, why does it involve a gimpy dongle? It really can't be built-in, Nikon?!?

(2) Quality Control.

* Crazy, stupid out-of-the-box dust issues on D7000, D600 sensors. D800 outer focus point misalignments. The D7000 backfocus brouhaha. Canon's toxic rubber grips. The 5DIII's bizarro meter light leak. I mean, *COME ON*.

* Nikon's recent service decisions--no sale of simple parts like straps, battery doors, etc.; no licensing of third party operations; etc. are NUTS. I've had satisfactory results from Nikon service, but the work took weeks rather than days.

(3) Marketing-driven spec gimping.

* D600 and 6D AF systems are just silly. Spend 2K for a camera and, in Nikon's case, get a proportionally smaller version of $600 D5200's AF? In Canon's case, get their *worst* AF system, period? (Correct me if I'm wrong, Canonites, but even Rebels, these days, have cross-type outer points, right?) Why can't they tier their systems according to capability or intended use? Case in point: the MacBook AIR isn't a "gimped" MacBook Pro--it's half as thick, has twice the battery life!

When I add these three issues up, I get the sense that the major manufacturers just aren't that engaged in product. They're just not that interested in "surprising or delighting" us with solutions to the real outstanding problems; instead, it seems that product gets developed according to what the marketers believe they can profitably sell. Compare that philosophy with companies who challenge their marketers to sell what they believe it's possible to make.

Anywho, the economic grim reaper's coming for them, since we (literally) aren't buying the bullish/t. And I suspect that after the invisible hand's "correction," we'll see a turnaround on issues 1, 2, and 3 from the players that remain, if not some surprise and delight in other areas, too.

M.

I agree with "we're in the best and worst of times".OP frustration/depression is somewhat justified. I was looking for a travel camera with interchangeable lens ability. I have many Canon lenses from previous heavy film SLRs and DSLRs.

After spending $1000 I got Sony Nex-6. Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! Except they omitted (vomited) touchscreen. And I was ready to spend more for touchscreen. Can anyone, can anyone defend Sony for doing a disgusting thing like this: please come forward. And no stupid arguments like "nobody will make a custom camera for you''

Every time I want to connect to App store to enter my email and password or need to change settings in deep pages in the menu, every time I am ready to puke on the person who decided to omit touchscreen. Just include it and if some one does not need it they can disable it. NEX 5 has touchscreen but no viewfinder. I am so frustrated. Because all of them do omissions like this. Canon M? Major fail: no built in flash: are you joking? No wonder mirorless sales are down this year when last year everyone agreed that it was the future.

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hovirag New Member • Posts: 19
Re: As an enthusiast the camera market is depressing.

John Miles wrote:

Why are so few trying to be different if they are already struggling with current sales?

Well, as already others stated here there is a wealth of available quality cameras and what do you mean by "struggling with sales"? they are doing very well all around the world - just check google for how many people search every month for given brands and cameras

Steve82 Senior Member • Posts: 2,912
Re: As an enthusiast the camera market is depressing.

John Miles wrote:

The camera market is suffering and the manufacturers need to experiment.

They are experimenting.   I don't think that there has ever been more choices available than there are right now.    Even if you can't afford the latest model today, just wait a few months and buy it on closeout.

What the manufacturers are not doing is repeating failed experiments from the past...no matter how badly you want them to.

zackiedawg
zackiedawg Forum Pro • Posts: 30,098
Re: Whining aside, we're in the best and worst of times.
1

DrA wrote:

After spending $1000 I got Sony Nex-6. Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! Except they omitted (vomited) touchscreen. And I was ready to spend more for touchscreen. Can anyone, can anyone defend Sony for doing a disgusting thing like this: please come forward. And no stupid arguments like "nobody will make a custom camera for you''

Just to give an example of how everyone's needs are different, and what people want or like will always vary...I have a NEX-5N that HAS a touchscreen...one of the first settings changes I made was to disable it, and I've shot for the past year and a half without it and never missed it.  I hate touchscreens!  I got around the lack of an EVF by buying the accessory one and shoot with it 99.9% of the time, as I dislike shooting off the LCD unless I'm using it for tripod work.  And I get by my dislike of the menus on the NEX by customizing the control buttons so all my key camera settings are directly controlled by exterior buttons, so I never need to see the menu unless I need to format a card.

Because all of them do omissions like this. Canon M? Major fail: no built in flash: are you joking? No wonder mirorless sales are down this year when last year everyone agreed that it was the future.

See, again - another example of how different people's needs are.  I have never used a built-in flash, except on my DSLR to trigger an external flash wirelessly.  On my NEX, I have never used a flash, period.  And don't ever intend to.  I hate built in flashes because they add unnexeccary bulk to the camera for me since it's a useless feature I never intend to use.  And on my NEX-5N which came with the little clip on flash that many people leave on the camera?  Mine hasn't left the camera bag and hasn't been attached to my NEX body.

I know others need it, so I wouldn't say all cameras should not come with flash...but this is just an example of how something that was a big error and omission for your buying needs was actually a positive for mine - I purposely bought a body with no built in flash and a key reason I don't like the NEX-6 over the NEX-5N is that the NEX-6 is taller to accomodate the built-in EVF and flash.  Crazy world!

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DrA
DrA Regular Member • Posts: 236
Re: As an enthusiast the camera market is depressing.

Steve82 wrote:

John Miles wrote:

The camera market is suffering and the manufacturers need to experiment.

They are experimenting. I don't think that there has ever been more choices available than there are right now. Even if you can't afford the latest model today, just wait a few months and buy it on closeout.

What the manufacturers are not doing is repeating failed experiments from the past...no matter how badly you want them to.

Agree. They are experimenting on our nerves. Why should we get frustrated from otherwise perfect camera when they try to save by not including something widespread and expected items like a flash (canon m) or touchscreen(nex6). Even cheap phone cameras have them. It is like making cars with no headlights. You can mount an optional headlights for night driving. (canon m). Why make the basic mistake to begin with.

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DrA
DrA Regular Member • Posts: 236
Re: Whining aside, we're in the best and worst of times.

Just to give an example of how everyone's needs are different, and what people want or like will always vary...I have a NEX-5N that HAS a touchscreen...one of the first settings changes I made was to disable it, and I've shot for the past year and a half without it and never missed it. I hate touchscreens! I got around the lack of an EVF by buying the accessory one and shoot with it 99.9% of the time, as I dislike shooting off the LCD unless I'm using it for tripod work. And I get by my dislike of the menus on the NEX by customizing the control buttons so all my key camera settings are directly controlled by exterior buttons, so I never need to see the menu unless I need to format a card.

good points.

please inform me which settings do you customize to exterior buttons.

Thanks

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 17,990
Re: John, you chose to have no options

zackiedawg wrote:

Actually you could get the Fiero all the way up to the 1988 model...so he had a few more choices than that 84 version!

BTW - ironically, as bad as the Fiero was, by 1988 the car was significantly improved and pretty much was finally what the original should have been - tighter design, dedicated suspension, lots of reworks, better engine...but by then the market had dwindled to nothing based on the reputation of the 84-87 models...and the rumored engine fire issues. The 88 Fiero GT was a very decent little car. Though I've generally been an import car owner most of my life, I used to work at a Pontiac/Saab dealership in California, and dealt a lot of used Fieros...most were embarrassingly bad, except those last ones!

1. Never buy one with a stick, a simple clutch replacement was not simple at all

2. Cooling system lines IIRC ran the length of the car all the way to the front? And were prone to leaks and not fun to replace.

3. Don't buy one without power windows. A friend of mine did and there was absolutely no way for the driver to put up the passenger side window without getting out of the car and walking around to it; the huge console effectively made it impossible to get to the window crank!

4. A GT with V6 and automatic transmission is probaby a nifty car and not too expensive, but I'd certainly proceed with caution.

The FZ50 was a better-made and designed camera by far than the Fiero was a car. If it wasn't for the noisy sensor and not-so-hot JPG engine, it would have been superb. Even so at lower ISO's it was a great camera.

zackiedawg
zackiedawg Forum Pro • Posts: 30,098
Re: Whining aside, we're in the best and worst of times.

Sure...remember though with the NEX6, I believe you have the Fn button which puts some controls there, whereas I don't have that so needed to use the center button to load 5 most-used functions there.  I haven't played with a NEX6, so I can't recall which functions you can put in the Fn menu...here's how I set my NEX-5N:

Upper left soft button stays as Menu.  Lower left soft button is set to DRO/HDR, but when I'm in Flex spot mode, it becomes the Flex spot position button.

4-way pad with center button:

Upper button is for flash mode.

Left button is for drive mode.

Bottom button is for EV.

Right button is for AE lock.

Center button is for : 1. ISO, 2. Focus mode, 3. Focus area, 4. Metering mode, 5. WB

The main menu is set to always return to the last function accessed, so I keep it on Shooting mode - when I go to the Menu button, Shooting mode comes up first, making it almost like a one-touch control for adjusting from P, A, S, or M.

Shooting in a Priority mode, I can use the jog wheel to quickly adjust shutter or aperture, and have one-touch access to ISO, exposure lock, focus and metering controls, focus point, EV, drive mode, and white balance adjustments.  If I'm using a manual lens, even better - because I can shoot in either A priority or S priority - I've now got aperture control on the lens barrel along with focus, and the rear jog dial for shutter speed - I can use Auto ISO or set manually as needed.

Hope that helps.

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Justin
galleries: www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

 zackiedawg's gear list:zackiedawg's gear list
Sony a6300 Sony DT 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 OSS Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake +22 more
sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 11,835
Re: Whining aside, we're in the best and worst of times.

I would go for a bigger body if Sony would add buttons for basic stuff like ISO, EV, etc to the NEX. Whenever I don't shoot for a while it takes me a couple of hours to get acclimated... which is bad because I just want to shoot, not relearn the camera. I have played with the menus a lot and got it as good as it can get... and quite frankly it still sucks.

A NEX with a built in EVF and either a low res touch screen with all the major functions or a slightly bigger body with basic functions as buttons would be perfect. But I am happy enough with my C3 for now to not jump ship. I still have my D40 + 18-105 collecting dust... there is just no way I will go back to the DSLR form factor if it's not FX.

 sportyaccordy's gear list:sportyaccordy's gear list
NEX-5T Sony Alpha a7R II Rokinon AF 50mm F1.4 FE Samyang 14mm F2.8 IF ED MC Aspherical Rokinon AF 35mm F1.4 FE +3 more
(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 5,590
Re: As an enthusiast the camera market is depressing.

John Miles wrote:

I simply detest the fact that in being an enthusiast I am placed in a minority that has little bearing in the way manufacturers design and promote cameras.

It appears to me now that the only viable equipment route is DSLR. Beyond that the often truly pathetic camera designs that are released offer no redeeming qualities that might tempt the enthusiast.

Well I suppose it depends how you define 'enthusiast'.  The camera company I worked for segments its market and tries to cater for as many niches as it can within the restrictions of mass production and distribution.  Bearing in mind that the smallest production run for a camera that we would consider viable was approximately 10,000 units then I think you can probably see that there comes a point where the further sub division of niches becomes difficult from a business point of view unless you become a bespoke manufacturer, in which case costs rise alarmingly, as does the selling price to you as a consumer.

Also bear in mind that we have to convince the dealers to stock all this stuff and dealers willing to do that are becoming harder and harder to find.  In fact the larger dealer chains want less models, not more, and each model that they do stock needs to be at a distinct price point and with distinct features.  Why?  Cost of inventory; the difficulty in finding and training staff to understand and to be able to sell all these variants; but most importantly to enable consumers to understand the differences and to be prepared to pay for them.

Now you as John Miles, enthusiast, know what you want (presumably) but how many like minded John Miles with the same preferences worldwide are there?  Is that a sustainable niche that would convince a manufacturer to shoulder the considerable cost and risk of putting such a model into production?  Of course you might argue that without putting the John Miles Special into production we will never know and in that you would be right.  But I, with my manufacturer hat on, have employees to pay and shareholders to satisfy and am not going to take that risk without damn good assessment of the potential and also the risk.  And that detailed analysis is what I and many others used to spend a considerable amount of time doing on a daily basis.

John Miles
OP John Miles Veteran Member • Posts: 6,919
Re: He's an equipment whiner, not a photographer.

I'm not strictly referring to my search for a camera here, but to the general lack of cameras in many combinations of camera body style and sensor size. But I have today read in this thread the fact that these other avenues were tried but sales flopped.

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__________________________________________________________________________
The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright, non-extending Leica 35-420mm F2.8-3.7 lens. I live in hope that Mr Ichiro Kitao, Mr Michiharu Uematsu and Mr Yoshiyuki Inoue have triggered the update to the FZ50. Please update the FZ50. It is unique and users of it cannot update without compromise of one or more of its combination of features. Full tribute here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=42366095 . Performace diagram here: http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3862228415/photos/2623982/fz50-performance-range

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