Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 II (H-H020A) - Banding

Started Aug 6, 2013 | Discussions
OP tsi Forum Member • Posts: 54
Re: Banding can be caused by power fluctuation.
1

s_grins wrote:

Paul De Bra wrote:

At very high iso the electronics may be sensitive to small variations in power consumption by every component including the lens. It is thus theoretically possible that a lens causes banding by having a fluctuation in its power consumption.

I'm not saying this is the case with the 20mm lens, but it is a (remote) possibility.

Paul, please do not blame innocent lens. Under the hump of OMD there is a humming device called IBIS that produce highest frequency IMF, and before pointing to the lens, I'd look under the hump.

The IBIS has been ruled out before. You can switch it off in the E-PL5 and E-PM2. Banding is still visible without IBIS.

morepix
morepix Veteran Member • Posts: 9,699
To be, or not to be ...

I'm trying to decide whether to go over my hundreds of photos taken with a 20mm, boost the local contrast, and look hard for banding. Should I? Shouldn't I? Will I be any happier if I look for it? What if there is, what if there isn't?

No, I think it's a lose-lose proposition. I'll just forget it. After all, Bobby McFerrin sang, "Don't worry, be happy / In every life we have some trouble / When you worry you make it double / Go out and take some more pictures."

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David
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OP tsi Forum Member • Posts: 54
Re: To be, or not to be ...

morepix wrote:

I'm trying to decide whether to go over my hundreds of photos taken with a 20mm, boost the local contrast, and look hard for banding. Should I? Shouldn't I? Will I be any happier if I look for it? What if there is, what if there isn't?

No, I think it's a lose-lose proposition. I'll just forget it. After all, Bobby McFerrin sang, "Don't worry, be happy / In every life we have some trouble / When you worry you make it double / Go out and take some more pictures."

be happy! best wishes

s_grins
s_grins Forum Pro • Posts: 13,308
Re: Banding can be caused by power fluctuation.

tsi wrote:

s_grins wrote:

Paul De Bra wrote:

At very high iso the electronics may be sensitive to small variations in power consumption by every component including the lens. It is thus theoretically possible that a lens causes banding by having a fluctuation in its power consumption.

I'm not saying this is the case with the 20mm lens, but it is a (remote) possibility.

Paul, please do not blame innocent lens. Under the hump of OMD there is a humming device called IBIS that produce highest frequency IMF, and before pointing to the lens, I'd look under the hump.

The IBIS has been ruled out before. You can switch it off in the E-PL5 and E-PM2. Banding is still visible without IBIS.

I'm fed up with all this ... Who ruled it out and who ruled it in? ... Why...

You know what? You'll continue your ..., and I'll continue using 1.7/20. Thank god, I do not have OMD.

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s_grins
s_grins Forum Pro • Posts: 13,308
Re: Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 II (H-H020A) - Banding

hinting wrote:

What I mean is that the sensor should be shielded better from the fields.
The question is where should the shield be? On each lens or on camera?
--
:hinting
http://www.redbubble.com/people/hinting/art
https://plus.google.com/115255826572441766446/posts

Hey, your previous post was great. Just stop shielding...     

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hopeless photographer New Member • Posts: 19
Re: Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 II (H-H020A) - Banding

There is nothing inside the lens that can produce banding on the sensor. Look somewhere else.

Hi s_grins.

You seem to be ignoring quite a lot of evidence to the contrary. Why is this?

Note - none of this is to say that the problem is the fault of the lens.

I spend way too much time at my day job working around defects in products from other companies. While I do complain about this a fair bit I do work around the problems for the sake of our customers if its viable to do so (almost always true in my field).

Assuming the problem is on the sensor it probably isn't financially viable to fix it there, and so I hoped that Panasonic could do something for me and folks like me. But, if it's not viable it's not viable and it still looks like a great lens for the price*.

FWIW I'm a qualified Electrical Engineer and while I don't work in electronics (though as part of my degree I did study sensors, instrumentation and ADC etc), of course there is stuff in that lens that could trigger the issue. Electrical and RF noise is a difficult problem at the best of times and these things are little electronic miracles as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers!

* Hoping to pick one up soon either as a kit lens with a GX-7 or alongside the now pretty damn reasonably-priced EM-5...

s_grins
s_grins Forum Pro • Posts: 13,308
Re: Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 II (H-H020A) - Banding

hopeless photographer wrote:

There is nothing inside the lens that can produce banding on the sensor. Look somewhere else.

Hi s_grins.

You seem to be ignoring quite a lot of evidence to the contrary. Why is this?

Note - none of this is to say that the problem is the fault of the lens.

I spend way too much time at my day job working around defects in products from other companies. While I do complain about this a fair bit I do work around the problems for the sake of our customers if its viable to do so (almost always true in my field).

Assuming the problem is on the sensor it probably isn't financially viable to fix it there, and so I hoped that Panasonic could do something for me and folks like me. But, if it's not viable it's not viable and it still looks like a great lens for the price*.

FWIW I'm a qualified Electrical Engineer and while I don't work in electronics (though as part of my degree I did study sensors, instrumentation and ADC etc), of course there is stuff in that lens that could trigger the issue. Electrical and RF noise is a difficult problem at the best of times and these things are little electronic miracles as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers!

* Hoping to pick one up soon either as a kit lens with a GX-7 or alongside the now pretty damn reasonably-priced EM-5...

Yes, I'm ignorant about many findings.

Yes, I have very similar to yours background, that is why I'm ignorant. My ignorance comes from critical thinking.

Cheers

S.

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hopeless photographer New Member • Posts: 19
Re: Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 II (H-H020A) - Banding

s_grins wrote:

Yes, I have very similar to yours background, that is why I'm ignorant. My ignorance comes from critical thinking.

?

Ignoring was probably the wrong word. Rejecting seems to be a more applicable word.

Anyway, either way the experimental evidence presented seems fairly demonstrative that there is something up with the 20mm 1.7 and the sony-sensor-equipped bodies in combination. Where's the problem with the evidence?

Apologies if I've missed your argument in the noise of the thread.

Cheers.

Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re:Olympus Body with Panny lens - Banding
5

happypoppeye wrote:

This is a sensor issue, not lens.

If you would have read up a bit on the rest of the thread, you would have known that it is a lens and sensor issue. The banding occurs when a specific lens (Pany 20/1.7) is combined with a specific sensor (the one used in all current Oly bodies and the GH3), not otherwise.

If I were Panny I would ignore it. If I were you I would buy a Panny body ...or get rid of the lens.

Regrettably Pany so far ignores it too, although one of their own bodies (GH3) is affected as  acknowledged in the GH3 manual.

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s_grins
s_grins Forum Pro • Posts: 13,308
Re: Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 II (H-H020A) - Banding

hopeless photographer wrote:

s_grins wrote:

Yes, I have very similar to yours background, that is why I'm ignorant. My ignorance comes from critical thinking.

?

Ignoring was probably the wrong word. Rejecting seems to be a more applicable word.

Anyway, either way the experimental evidence presented seems fairly demonstrative that there is something up with the 20mm 1.7 and the sony-sensor-equipped bodies in combination. Where's the problem with the evidence?

Apologies if I've missed your argument in the noise of the thread.

Cheers.

I appreciate your post.

The reason I rejects all this multiple references and links is simple - all them actually lead to one or two absolutely unreliable and stupid sources.

As a sample of human stupidity and neglection of proper an qualified research, I want remind the "discovery" of the coil that induced EMF and interfere with sensor.

I do think that the problem is the sensor, any sensor that has a limits when pushing envelop of super PP. And this special SONY sensor is more prone to banding than others because this banding was reported long before E-M5. Namely it was Pentax K5 with the same sensor design.

After all, been a designer and engineer for several decades, I can't imagine the level of stupidity of the company that produce lenses with high level electronic inside. Lens must have very basic and minimalistic level of communications and electronics, the rest has to be inside the camera which has more room and accommodations to do the job.

Also I suggest that folks use this lens more than others in situations that require pushing envelop during PP.

As you can see, my logic and reasonong is no worst than those with PhD ( I have MD only)

Sincerely

S.

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