Windows 8 adoption is OK

Started Aug 6, 2013 | Discussions
CAcreeks
OP CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,688
Re: PrefBar UA does not work right

Jim Cockfield wrote:

The PrefBar user agent, once changed, does not change back again until (perhaps) the next invocation of the browser process.

I don't follow what you mean.

I changed it to IE8 just to see what happens, then changed it back to recent FF, after which Yahoo would not let me read mail because of an "old" browser, IE8 it said. As if the UA can change only once.

Do you actually switch back and forth? Maybe I need to clear the cache, or something like that.

There must be a web page that tells you your advertised UA. I will look for one and try to debug this problem.

P.S. The Yahoo mail problem of fonts increasing size after Enter also occurs on Windows FF, so I have to change browser family. Yahoo only works right with Chrome and maybe recent versions of IE.

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,339
I've given you 3 of them in my last two posts. ;-)

CAcreeks wrote:

There must be a web page that tells you your advertised UA. I will look for one and try to debug this problem.

P.S. The Yahoo mail problem of fonts increasing size after Enter also occurs on Windows FF, so I have to change browser family. Yahoo only works right with Chrome and maybe recent versions of IE.

I've linked to 3 different sites that show you UA info in my last couple of posts.

The one I mentioned in my most recent post also shows more info that sites can get using javascript queries.

This one:

http://youruseragent.info/extended.en.htm

But, most sites only look at the basic UA string, as these sites can show you:

http://www.whatsmyuseragent.com/

http://whatsmyua.com/

Use the strings I just mentioned in my last post (Try these strings instead ); and you should also be fine with sites using more sophisticated javascript queries (just make sure you also have the other extension installed I mentioned, and restart Firefox after adding the new UA strings to the list in PrefBar).

Then, if you change the UA from the dropdown list and refresh the page using one of those sites to see what you're reporting, you can see that the reported UA is changing.

But, don't expect to be able to see or work with pages on sites when spoofing Internet Explorer (as you're still using Firefox, which has a different rendering engine).   IOW, trying to spoof IE can cause more problems than it helps (because Firefox won't know how to properly render a lot of page content designed for IE).

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JimC
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blueandwhite Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Windows 8 adoption is OK

CAcreeks wrote:

Despite what you may have read in the press lately, Windows 8 adoption is going pretty well. Just saw some July statistics from a tech-oriented website where Windows 8 visits had surpassed Windows XP, 11% to 9%, with Windows 7 at 71% and Vista at 1%.

Just another datapoint...

Why don't you name the source?

teseg
teseg Senior Member • Posts: 2,208
Re: Windows 8 adoption is OK

blueandwhite wrote:

CAcreeks wrote:

Despite what you may have read in the press lately, Windows 8 adoption is going pretty well. Just saw some July statistics from a tech-oriented website where Windows 8 visits had surpassed Windows XP, 11% to 9%, with Windows 7 at 71% and Vista at 1%.

Just another datapoint...

Why don't you name the source?

Sounds like you are calling BS on OP's data.  This assessment from June agrees with you blueandwhite.

  • Win 8 -  5.1%
  • XP - 37.17%
  • Win 7 - 44.37%

http://www.informationweek.com/software/windows8/windows-8-adoption-modest-growth-in-june/240157656

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CAcreeks
OP CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,688
Re: Try these strings instead...

Yahoo HTML compose does work (not increasing font size with every Return) when user agent is set to IE 10.

Yahoo HTML compose does not work with user agent set to FF 23 on Windows 64-bit (nor on Linux 64-bit).

The What's My User Agent website shows that switching back and forth works, although IE10 self-reports as Mozilla 5.

Hard to believe we have to go through this just to use email... Thanks, Jim.

Jim Cockfield wrote:

IE 10 (32 bit version) running in 64 Bit Win 7:

js:useragent="Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 10.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/6.0)"; appname="Microsoft Internet Explorer"; appversion="5.0 (compatible; MSIE 10.0; Windows NT 6.1)"; platform="Win32";

After adding them to PrefBar, make sure you also have this extension enabled:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/user-agent-js-fixer/

CAcreeks
OP CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,688
Re: Windows 8 adoption is OK

blueandwhite wrote:

Why don't you name the source?

Non-disclosure agreement.

Currently the tech press is widely reporting 5.4% market share for Windows 8, finally surpassing Vista at 4.2% (XP at 37%).

The source is NetApplications. StatCounter has slightly different numbers with Windows 8 at almost 6% and XP at 21%.

My dentist uses XP for X-rays and does not seem concerned about upgrading despite loss of support next year.

Sean Nelson
Sean Nelson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,978
Re: Windows 8 adoption is OK

CAcreeks wrote:

My dentist uses XP for X-rays and does not seem concerned about upgrading despite loss of support next year.

Loss of support is probably not an issue if it's a stand-alone un-networked machine.   The most important benefit of support is security fixes.

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,339
That's the way it's supposed to show up...

CAcreeks wrote:

Yahoo HTML compose does work (not increasing font size with every Return) when user agent is set to IE 10.

You can't expect Firefox to display and work with all content designed for IE 10, as it's using a different rendering engine.

Sometimes it works. But, most of the time, the content generated for IE 10 is just not going to work correctly in Firefox. When you change the UA, the site generates code differently. So, it's common to have problems trying to tell sites that you're using IE when you're really using Firefox.

If you want to spoof a different browser on sites that have more complex pages, it's best to stick with a browser using the same rendering engine (for example, telling a site you're using Firefox under Windows when you're really using Firefox under Linux).

Yahoo HTML compose does not work with user agent set to FF 23 on Windows 64-bit (nor on Linux 64-bit).

Sounds like Yahoo just has an issue with Firefox. Use Thunderbird instead (or just change to a different mail service)

The What's My User Agent website shows that switching back and forth works, although IE10 self-reports as Mozilla 5.

IE 10 is supposed to report that way (Mozilla 5.0).

You'll see the same thing if you're using the real IE 10 when running Windows.

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JimC
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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,339
Yahoo mail works fine w/ Firefox

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Yahoo HTML compose does not work with user agent set to FF 23 on Windows 64-bit (nor on Linux 64-bit).

Sounds like Yahoo just has an issue with Firefox. Use Thunderbird instead (or just change to a different mail service)

I just created a Yahoo mail account to test it to see what your issue might be.

It works just fine for me (either using my real UA with Firefox under Linux; or with the UA spoofed to Firefox under Windows.

I created test messages using their web interface and sent them to another account, and I did not see any issues with it.

That's to be expected (as it would be very odd if a service as large as Yahoo mail didn't support Firefox).

So, it sound like something else is wrong with your configuration (perhaps a problem with a plugin or extension, something wrong related to your Firefox preferences, or similar).   If you're using something like noScript or have something limited javascript in your settings, that could be your issue (as those types of pages are going to rely heavily on javascript).

Anyway, I don't see any issues with composing Yahoo mail using Firefox under Linux.  It works just fine for me.

The What's My User Agent website shows that switching back and forth works, although IE10 self-reports as Mozilla 5.

IE 10 is supposed to report that way (Mozilla 5.0).

You'll see the same thing if you're using the real IE 10 when running Windows.

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JimC
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JimC
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theswede
theswede Veteran Member • Posts: 4,009
Re: Windows 8 adoption is OK

My dentist uses XP for X-rays and does not seem concerned about upgrading despite loss of support next year.

As long as he doesn't run into liability issues.

I expect we'll see XP systems running for many years still. There are plenty of Windows 2000 installs and even a fair amount of NT4 installs still chugging along in both data centers and point of sales systems. Many of them are networked and handle business and financial transactions.

Jesper

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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,339
Yahoo OK w/more than one distro

IRT my last post...

I just tested Firefox 23 with more than one Linux distro (including a "plain jane" version of it in Kubuntu 13.04 without adding any plugins), as well as my usual Mepis 11 config using a Debian Base (with lots of extensions and plugins); and Yahoo Mail compose works just fine, with or without spoofing the User Agent String.

IOW, Firefox works just fine composing messages with Yahoo Mail using the default User Agent String, or "spoofing" the UA to show I'm running under LInux instead.

So, you've got an issue of some type specific to your configuration, as mentioned in my previous post.

IOW, something you've changed about your Firefox preferences or add-ons is likely causing your problems with Yahoo Mail, that has nothing do to with the User Agent String being used.

If you want to try the "nuclear' option, just reset Firefox to it's defaults. You can do that by going to the Help>Troubleshooting Information menu choice, then using the "Reset Firefox" button.

But, you'll need to reinstall all extensions and plugins if you go that route. So, it may be easier to disable all of of you plugins and extensions to see if one of them is causing an issue, then enabling one at a time until you find the culprit.

If that doesn't find the problem, then your issues could be the result of something else you've changed in Firefox Preferences (something related to Security, Javascript, Content settings, etc.).  So, using the Reset Defaults should fix that (although, again, you'd probably need to reinstall all extensions and plugins if you use that option).

In any event, the problem likely has nothing to do with Yahoo Mail not working with Firefox under Linux (or the reported User Agent String), as I see zero problems using Yahoo Mail with Firefox 23 (testing it with multiple Linux distros, with and without lots of plugins and extensions installed).

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JimC
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CAcreeks
OP CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,688
Re: ff works fine w/Yahoo

Jim Cockfield wrote:

So, you've got an issue of some type specific to your configuration, as mentioned in my previous post.-

Possibly it is my font configuration, set to URW Palladio with "Allow pages to choose their own font" disabled.

Also, some people can't really tell when font size increases. Not that you are one of those people, Jim.

CAcreeks
OP CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,688
Re: Windows XP still amazes me!

theswede wrote:

I expect we'll see XP systems running for many years still. There are plenty of Windows 2000 installs and even a fair amount of NT4 installs still chugging along in both data centers and point of sales systems. Many of them are networked and handle business and financial transactions.

Windows XP is really quite amazing. It will probably end up #2 for OS longevity (after Unix-Linux) among those widely used. (I guess some IBM mainframe OS has lasted longer.)

Thanks to SP3, XP is amazingly stable, considering how Windows on DOS Windows used to be.

Really Windows 7 is not vastly improved in regards to the UI. Its only major improvement was good 64-bit support.

theswede
theswede Veteran Member • Posts: 4,009
Re: Windows XP still amazes me!

Windows XP is really quite amazing. It will probably end up #2 for OS longevity (after Unix-Linux) among those widely used. (I guess some IBM mainframe OS has lasted longer.)

There are still some OS/360 (from 1964) installs around, but I don't know if any are still in business use. VMS (1977, kind of) is still in use and can be licensed. The latest OpenVMS major version is really from 2003 though.

Thanks to SP3, XP is amazingly stable, considering how Windows on DOS Windows used to be.

Most of all, it is well understood, and it's possible to make a very stripped down, low resource and stable version. That's made it very popular in various industrial and medical systems. It's also my go-to version when I need a win32 VM for some kind of test (and with an MSDN account I can still get a license for that).

Really Windows 7 is not vastly improved in regards to the UI. Its only major improvement was good 64-bit support.

Microsoft have not advanced UI functionality since Windows 95/NT4. And yes, proper 64 bit support is the only technical reason to move from XP. XP64 had a lot of issues which were hard to pin down, but probably caused by broken third party drivers.

It's starting to get very hard to find drivers for peripherals for XP though. It's more likely new peripherals will be supported by Linux, which is rather ironic. I keep getting told Windows has the best hardware support around, but that appears to be a state of flux.

Jesper

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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,339
Then, don't do that. :-)

CAcreeks wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

So, you've got an issue of some type specific to your configuration, as mentioned in my previous post.-

Possibly it is my font configuration, set to URW Palladio with "Allow pages to choose their own font" disabled.

Then, don't do that.

I have used a variety of ways to get fonts working the way I like the with Firefox in Linux over the years.

But, I always set it to Allow Pages to choose their own fonts.

Sometimes, I'll use different default fonts, and sometimes I'll even set a minimum font size.

But, I *never* disable the ability for web pages to choose their own fonts. I've also never tried using something as odd as the font you're selecting.

My advise...

Always install Microsoft TrueType Fonts. The basic Truetype (Times New Roman, etc.) fonts used by web sites were released to the public some years back, and you can install them from the software repositories used by virtually any modern linux distribution.

With newer Debian based distros, just search for package name ttf-mscorefonts-installer

With some other versions, the package name may be msttcorefonts

If you don't see either of those in the software package manager you're using, just search for Microsoft TrueType fonts and you should find the appropriate package for installing them.

More often than not, web pages are designed to use some of the MS font choices by default. If you don't have them installed, then a different font is going to be used.

Anymore, I just leave my fonts in Firefox set to the Serif type fonts. For example, like this (what I have Firefox set to for day to day use now). But, again, make sure to allow web sites to choose their own fonts (in case they want to use one of the Microsoft TrueType font choices (and make sure you install those Microsoft fonts from your distro's software repos).

This is my current Firefox font setup (but, again, I also have Microsoft TrueType fonts installed so that web sites can use them if desired):

But, years ago, I used to setup Firefox as shown in the screen capture you'll find in this older post instead (defaulting to some of the Microsoft TrueType font choices).
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/31446527

This way (see that post for more info):

But, as you can see from both of the screen captures (the one linked to above, and the one in that older forum post), I still leave it set to allow web pages to select their own fonts.As for other fonts, I tend to use DejaVu Sans, and I tend to leave Anti-aliasing set to System Defaults. But, with some distros (depending on how they have Freetype compiled), I may use hinting settings for anti-aliasing, too.

But, I always install Microsoft TrueType fonts; and I always leave Firefox setup to allow pages to choose their own fonts so that they can use the installed Microsoft TrueType fonts if desired, or other fonts if desired (instead of my default Serif Choices that i tend to leave setup in Firefox anymore)

If you do anything different like selecting a really weird font choice and then disabling the ability for web pages to choose their own fonts (as you're telling us you've got Firefox setup now), you're just asking for problems.

Again, Don't do that.

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JimC
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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,339
logout after installing new fonts

P.S.

IRT my last post about making sure Microsoft TrueType fonts are installed, and making sure Firefox is setup to allow pages to select their own fonts; you'll also need to restart your desktop for most changes to be seen.

IOW, after installing new fonts or making any system level font changes (default fonts, hinting settings for anti-aliasing, etc.), you'll need to log out of your current desktop session and log back in again before all of the font changes are seen by most applications.

You don't need to restart your PC.  Just log out of your current desktop session, then log right back in again. Then, apps should recognize the font changes made.

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JimC
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CAcreeks
OP CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,688
Re: Then, don't do that. :-)

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Possibly it is my font configuration, set to URW Palladio with "Allow pages to choose their own font" disabled.

Then, don't do that.

Jim, I appreciate your advice, but I am not going to follow it.

I am a Palatino kinda guy. I will not accept Swiss designed fonts or American rip-off fonts! **

Setting User Agent to IE10 works surprisingly well, even on this website, which is puzzling given all the IE complaints I see.

** Actually Palladio is a rip-off font. So I'm a hypocrite.

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