7D - 70D - 7D2

Started Jul 21, 2013 | Discussions
Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,841
Re: Nah... doubtful

Jerry-astro wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

It is quite possible that there will not be a 7D Mark II. Canon's range has reconfigured quite considerably since the 7D was announced. For a start, the '5D' has become quite a different camera, really rather action orientated with top-notch AF - that makes it quite possible that what Canon has intended is for 7D owners, at least some of them to upgrade to the 5D Mk III. Then again, the price point, more or less, of the 7D has been taken by the 6D. It's very unusual for Canon to field two current cameras at the same price point, so one could think that they thing FF gives a better offer to people with $2k to spend than a fast APS-C camera. Third, the 70D has taken on quite a lot of the 7D's spec at a reduced price point. With those three cameras nibbling away at the 7D market place, it is not a given that there is enough market to sustain a 7D, and in particular the quite large amount of dedicated R&D that a camera which significantly advanced on the 7D would require.

Time will tell, so we're simply in speculation space now. However, I think you're WAY off base on this one. The 6D is any entry level full frame which happens to be at somewhere close to the same price point that is projected for the 7DMk2. These are two completely different product lines, one with relatively entry level features (focus subsystem, frame rate) and the other at the top of the crop line, likely with a much more sophisticated focus subsystem, much faster frame rate, and other features which are targeted at the same shooters that would buy (and have bought) the 7D. Portrait and landscape photographers -- who are the perfect target market for the 6D -- generally don't benefit from these capabilities and are a mismatch for the 7D's target customer base. The improved IQ of the 6D would be awesome to have in a 7D successor, but if you're shooting birds or sports, the 6D is likely not going to be your 7D upgrade since it's lacking in so many features that the 4-year old 7D already has... let alone its successor.

Bottom line: there's nothing wrong with having multiple product lines that share price points. It's done all the time in a host of different markets (some high tech... some not). Looking at the 6D as a 7D successor might fit your specific needs in a camera, but for many others, including myself, it's a terrible fit and not even on the list of possibilities. A 5DmK3 might be, but the higher price point plus the additional expense of a TC to compensate for the lack of reach makes it a non starter for me anyway.

+1

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Cheers Mike

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 18,329
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

hires wrote:

It'd going to be one hell of a good shoot out when the 70D finally goes against the 7D. Coming to you soon right here on this channel. Stay tuned.

No need for a shoot-out. The 7D (and a 7D Mk II) are not aimed at exactly the same users. Buy whichever camera does best what you want it for.

I've got as 7D and while I don't see the 70D as being it's 'replacement' I harbor no animosity towards the 70D. It's just a different camera, good for some things a bit more or a bit less than for others. And I can't afford to buy it OR a 7D Mk II for the foreseeable future - in fact I just bought a 7D used because that's the limit of my budget.

wihakowi Regular Member • Posts: 242
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2
2

Bobn2 wrote:

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Well this has been an entertaining thread of posts -

Between the language and translation differences, the borderline offensive use of idioms ("someone who has no clue whatsoever", "Stupid is as stupid does", "needs to have his brain examined") and the level and quantity of personal feelings being expressed as absolute facts, it's been quite a ride!

The most fascinating part? --- It's all about a camera body (70D) that has been announced but is not even in the public's hands yet and a "hoped for", speculated about camera that not only isn't available but hasn't even been announced yet ... if it ever will be!

What a waste of energy to argue over 2 basically unknown entities. Then again, I guess I'm part and parcel to the show since I read every post!!

Heck, I'm still waiting for an update to the 2010 Saturn Vue - is that asking too much?

Steve

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elfroggio
MOD elfroggio Veteran Member • Posts: 3,008
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

wihakowi wrote:

Between the language and translation differences, the borderline offensive use of idioms ("someone who has no clue whatsoever", "Stupid is as stupid does", "needs to have his brain examined") and the level and quantity of personal feelings being expressed as absolute facts, it's been quite a ride!

I'm one of the moderator of the forum. I saw some of these comments and let them pass as borderline under "the civil rule".

The problem I'm encountering is

  1. Being too strict
  2. Being too lenient
  3. I didn't see these comments. Sometimes I miss things...
  4. Being too lazy or busy. Like "It's not bad enough" or "I don't have the time" (I also have a life and I try to run a business).

I think that these comments fell under the category 4.

Please note 1: that in this comment, I only speak for myself and not for the other moderators nor for DPR itself.

Please note 2: If you want to make "my work easier", you can flag these comments and complain. One of us is sure to investigate.

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Thanks
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Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 26,603
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2
1

Bobn2 wrote:

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

I think there is a considerable overlap between the two.

There is none whatsoever!

Really?

They are both DSLR's.

They both accept EF-S lenses.

Wrong, the 6D does not accept EF-S.

They both have very similar controls.

They both will take very similar photos in maybe 95% of photographic situations.

The same focal length lens will give you a field of view 1.6x closer on the 7D than the 6D.  This is not very similar, and it is one reason birders and nature photogs use the 7D over the 6D.  The other reason is operating speed.

The 7D has some features that the 6D does not, and vice versa, but for most people buying a general purpose camera, they mostly do the same job.

Depends on what you're shooting.

For those that need both there are alternatives available - i.e. 5DIII. But the target groups are as far seperated as they could be from the onset, so the availability of both cameras will *not* create any further division in markets.

You don't know what the 'target groups' are - Canon knows that. I doubt that many who buy a 7D use it exclusively for action photography, nor do those that buy a 6D use it exclusively for studio and landscape work. In the overlap are the majority of everyday situations that both cameras handle pretty well. Not every buyer is like you.

Consciencious buyers will look at the specs and buy the camera that makes the most sense for what they shoot, not go "eeny meeny miny mo" between 2 cams because their prices are the same.

I for one would never consider ever buying a full frame DSLR if there is a fast alternative and even if there weren't I wouldn't even remotely consider the 6D.

Then you would not be a buyer, you would probably have to settle for a 70D, or just not upgrade your camera. The point for Canon is overall sales (or more importantly, overall profits), not what one individual will or won't do. Unless there are enough that think like you, and wouldn't buy another Canon camera, Canon would never recover the investment for a brand new camera.

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Bob

Not sure what you have against a 7D upgrade, but you're still off base with your reasoning.

Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 26,603
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2
1

Bobn2 wrote:

Mark B. wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Selling two different products into one space is splitting the market.

That were true if the market weren't split already - but someone who is in the target audience for the 6D isn't in the target audience for the 7DII and visa verso, those cameras are too different to be competing with each other - so your whole argument has no merit whatsoever.

I think there is a considerable overlap between the two. Both are general purpose high end enthusiast DSLR's. Yes, there is a group that would only buy one, but in the middle there is a bigger group for whom they are both attractive offers, with a different emphasis. Canon's range has never included alternatives at each price point - they decide on the emphasis (speed, video specs, resolution, FF, etc) at each point and offer one model. If you need something different, you go up or down, not across.

Sorry Bob, but you're incorrect.

What have I said that is 'incorrect' - what I have said is opinions, which may differ from yours, but have as much chance of being 'correct' as yours.

There isn't as much overlap as you think.  If there was, why are there any 7D bodies in use at all?

The 7D is the top end crop sensor cam for speed & action.

That is a matter of fact, but that doesn't mean that it will always be so.

I suspect the 7D II will take that mantle by Feb 2014 at the latest

6D is an entry-level FF camera.

That also is a matter of fact, but doesn't impinge one way or another on what I said.

It contradicts your opinion that they have too much overlap for both to remain in the market.

No way would I consider replacing my 7D with a 6D.

That is your preference, to which you have every right, but there is no law that says that Canon has to cater for your personal preference.

I'm not that presumptious.  There are quite a few of us   They also don't have to cater to your personal opinion that they shouldn't make a replacement.

If you were right we'd see people here dumping their 7D in favor of the 6D. I don't see that happening.

Have you looked? What evidence have you or not that people have moved from 7D to 6D or thought of a 7D but went 6D instead? Please show me the evidence that says that no-one has done either of these things.

Four years after the release, the 7D is still going strong.

Not so much, stronger than its nearest competitor, the D300s, but that's not saying a great deal. If the market was so vibrant, one would have expected Canon to replace it after 3 years, like they usually do with their top end cameras. Cameras that came after the 7D and have been replaced include the 1DIV, 550D, 60D, 600D and 650D. There has to be some reason Canon thought it worth replacing all those models and not the 7D. The only model in the field that long was the 1DsIII, and they never replaced that.

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Bob

The 1Ds was merged with the 1D; instead of keeping a 3rd sensor size in their DSLR line, they came up with the 1Dx.  The 7D isn't really in the same catagory.  There are still improvements Canon can make - still faster frame rate, dual memory cards, larger buffer, wifi, etc. that will separate it even more from the 70D.

Mark

jonrobertp Forum Pro • Posts: 12,880
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

The 7DII or the 8D will likely have the same problems that the 7D has.  Too heavy.  And rather pricey.  Which again makes the 70D a good choice for about 40,000 ppl. 

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Karl Gnter Wnsch Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

jonrobertp wrote:

The 7DII or the 8D will likely have the same problems that the 7D has. Too heavy.

I think you need to check what the differences in weight are - you fret about 100grams...

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Karl Günter Wünsch

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 63,868
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2
3

elfroggio wrote:

wihakowi wrote:

Between the language and translation differences, the borderline offensive use of idioms ("someone who has no clue whatsoever", "Stupid is as stupid does", "needs to have his brain examined") and the level and quantity of personal feelings being expressed as absolute facts, it's been quite a ride!

I'm one of the moderator of the forum. I saw some of these comments and let them pass as borderline under "the civil rule".

The problem I'm encountering is

  1. Being too strict
  2. Being too lenient
  3. I didn't see these comments. Sometimes I miss things...
  4. Being too lazy or busy. Like "It's not bad enough" or "I don't have the time" (I also have a life and I try to run a business).

I think that these comments fell under the category 4.

Please note 1: that in this comment, I only speak for myself and not for the other moderators nor for DPR itself.

Please note 2: If you want to make "my work easier", you can flag these comments and complain. One of us is sure to investigate.

I was the target of the comments, and I didn't complain. The fact is that Karl feels strongly about this and will express himself strongly. I can't see that reading the comments does anyone any harm, and maybe even has an 'entertainment' value. So, as a moderator, I think you took the right decision - overcontrolled discussion is dull discussion.

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Bob

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 63,868
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2
1

Mark B. wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

I think there is a considerable overlap between the two.

There is none whatsoever!

Really?

They are both DSLR's.

They both accept EF-S lenses.

Wrong, the 6D does not accept EF-S.

Yes, I typed the 'S' on in error.

They both have very similar controls.

They both will take very similar photos in maybe 95% of photographic situations.

The same focal length lens will give you a field of view 1.6x closer on the 7D than the 6D. This is not very similar, and it is one reason birders and nature photogs use the 7D over the 6D. The other reason is operating speed.

I know that, they have different advantages, but unless your general use is quite specialised, 95% of the time you'll get much the same from them.

The 7D has some features that the 6D does not, and vice versa, but for most people buying a general purpose camera, they mostly do the same job.

Depends on what you're shooting.

That's why I said 'general purpose', of course, if you buy a camera focussed on one kind of situation, the different emphasis tilts the balance.

For those that need both there are alternatives available - i.e. 5DIII. But the target groups are as far seperated as they could be from the onset, so the availability of both cameras will *not* create any further division in markets.

You don't know what the 'target groups' are - Canon knows that. I doubt that many who buy a 7D use it exclusively for action photography, nor do those that buy a 6D use it exclusively for studio and landscape work. In the overlap are the majority of everyday situations that both cameras handle pretty well. Not every buyer is like you.

Consciencious buyers will look at the specs and buy the camera that makes the most sense for what they shoot, not go "eeny meeny miny mo" between 2 cams because their prices are the same.

Who knows what 'consciencious' buyers will do, and who knows whether their mix of usage strongly favours one over the other. Many buyers have one camera which they use in a variety of situations photographing the kids, photographing the kids playing sport, travel photography, a bit of landscape, family events and so on - which is better for them might not be clear cut - from that mix one will be better in some circumstances, another better in others, so even if they are conscientious, the decision might be quite balanced.

I for one would never consider ever buying a full frame DSLR if there is a fast alternative and even if there weren't I wouldn't even remotely consider the 6D.

Then you would not be a buyer, you would probably have to settle for a 70D, or just not upgrade your camera. The point for Canon is overall sales (or more importantly, overall profits), not what one individual will or won't do. Unless there are enough that think like you, and wouldn't buy another Canon camera, Canon would never recover the investment for a brand new camera.

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Bob

Not sure what you have against a 7D upgrade, but you're still off base with your reasoning.

I have nothing at all against a 7D 'upgrade', I just think that for sound marketing reasons, Canon might not offer one.

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Bob

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 63,868
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2
2

Mark B. wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Mark B. wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Selling two different products into one space is splitting the market.

That were true if the market weren't split already - but someone who is in the target audience for the 6D isn't in the target audience for the 7DII and visa verso, those cameras are too different to be competing with each other - so your whole argument has no merit whatsoever.

I think there is a considerable overlap between the two. Both are general purpose high end enthusiast DSLR's. Yes, there is a group that would only buy one, but in the middle there is a bigger group for whom they are both attractive offers, with a different emphasis. Canon's range has never included alternatives at each price point - they decide on the emphasis (speed, video specs, resolution, FF, etc) at each point and offer one model. If you need something different, you go up or down, not across.

Sorry Bob, but you're incorrect.

What have I said that is 'incorrect' - what I have said is opinions, which may differ from yours, but have as much chance of being 'correct' as yours.

There isn't as much overlap as you think. If there was, why are there any 7D bodies in use at all?

The 7D made a lot of sense in Canon's range configured as it was at the time. Now, with a very different range it makes less sense.

The 7D is the top end crop sensor cam for speed & action.

That is a matter of fact, but that doesn't mean that it will always be so.

I suspect the 7D II will take that mantle by Feb 2014 at the latest

You might be right. Then again, you might be wrong.

6D is an entry-level FF camera.

That also is a matter of fact, but doesn't impinge one way or another on what I said.

It contradicts your opinion that they have too much overlap for both to remain in the market.

That is not my opinion. What I said is that the 5DIII, the 70D and the 6D together took enough away from the potential 7DII market to make me doubt whether it was viable. The 6D mainly by occupying the price point and offering a different mix of general purpose features for those looking at a general purpose camera in a particular price range, the 70D and 6D by their different suitibilities to action oriented photography.

No way would I consider replacing my 7D with a 6D.

That is your preference, to which you have every right, but there is no law that says that Canon has to cater for your personal preference.

I'm not that presumptious. There are quite a few of us They also don't have to cater to your personal opinion that they shouldn't make a replacement.

Maybe you too have access to secret sales figures that you can;'t divulge but which says that you are right. The question is how many are is 'quite a few' and how many of those 'quite a few' would only go for a 7DII and nothing else. You see 'quite a few' musing that the 70D has substantial enough a spec for them to settle on. You see 'quite a few' who have adopted the 5DIII as an action camera, and you see 'quite a few' who have decided to spend their $2k on full frame.

If you were right we'd see people here dumping their 7D in favor of the 6D. I don't see that happening.

Have you looked? What evidence have you or not that people have moved from 7D to 6D or thought of a 7D but went 6D instead? Please show me the evidence that says that no-one has done either of these things.

Four years after the release, the 7D is still going strong.

Not so much, stronger than its nearest competitor, the D300s, but that's not saying a great deal. If the market was so vibrant, one would have expected Canon to replace it after 3 years, like they usually do with their top end cameras. Cameras that came after the 7D and have been replaced include the 1DIV, 550D, 60D, 600D and 650D. There has to be some reason Canon thought it worth replacing all those models and not the 7D. The only model in the field that long was the 1DsIII, and they never replaced that.

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Bob

The 1Ds was merged with the 1D; instead of keeping a 3rd sensor size in their DSLR line, they came up with the 1Dx.

If you believe that many 1DsIII owners think that the 1Dx, with its reduced resolution really 'replaces' the Ds III, then you are wide of the mark. The Ds line was discontinued, that is the reality of it.

The 7D isn't really in the same catagory. There are still improvements Canon can make - still faster frame rate, dual memory cards, larger buffer, wifi, etc. that will separate it even more from the 70D.

There were still many improvements Canon could make with the Ds line. Higher MP count, better DR, all the other camera improvements that went into the 1D X. fact is, when they introduced the 5D II and 5D III it left the 1Ds without enough of a market to continue with.

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Bob

David Naylor
David Naylor Contributing Member • Posts: 806
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

wihakowi wrote:

Well this has been an entertaining thread of posts -

Between the language and translation differences, the borderline offensive use of idioms ("someone who has no clue whatsoever", "Stupid is as stupid does", "needs to have his brain examined") and the level and quantity of personal feelings being expressed as absolute facts, it's been quite a ride!

The most fascinating part? --- It's all about a camera body (70D) that has been announced but is not even in the public's hands yet and a "hoped for", speculated about camera that not only isn't available but hasn't even been announced yet ... if it ever will be!

What a waste of energy to argue over 2 basically unknown entities. Then again, I guess I'm part and parcel to the show since I read every post!!

Heck, I'm still waiting for an update to the 2010 Saturn Vue - is that asking too much?

Steve

+1

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muckd Forum Member • Posts: 94
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

The Olympus e-3 and e-5 have a similar weather sealing as the 7D and both have flip out screen. I would guess that keeping out flip out screens have more to do with it not being perceived as pro enough.

WilbaW
WilbaW Forum Pro • Posts: 11,595
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

cas3 wrote:

WilbaW wrote:

skanter wrote:

WilbaW wrote:

The way I see it, if the 70D were a replacement for the 7D it would have spot AF (and the other advanced PD AF features that didn't carry over).

60D has spot AF

What page in the instruction manual tells me how to do that?

I would assume 70D has it as well.

Can you find it in the instruction manual?

Here is a link to the manual:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_70d#BrochuresAndManuals

Spot AF is on page 103.

Nope, "Spot AF" doesn't appear anywhere in the entire document. Compare with pages 87 and 89 of the 7D manual.

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Karl Gnter Wnsch Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

muckd wrote:

I would guess that keeping out flip out screens have more to do with it not being perceived as pro enough.

There you guess wrong. The infrastructure to be able to flip the screen out takes space and the frame of the LCD needs more space to be sturdy enough. This results in bad compromises in either screen size or control element placement. The Olympus designers went for a sub par LCD size and the Canon designers went for a sub par user interface. In both cases the results are not desirable unless you absolutely need the slip out screen when you may be forced to contend with the down sides of the design...

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Karl Günter Wünsch

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x-vision
x-vision Senior Member • Posts: 1,231
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

Bobn2 wrote:

Selling two different products into one space is splitting the market. You don't get twice the sales but you do get two sets of R&D costs, two sets of inventory costs, two marketing budgets and so on.

Agree. The 7DII and 6D will be competing for the same money ... initially.

Yes, it makes little sense at this time to have both the 6D and 7DII at the same price point.
Two years from now, though, things will look differently, IMO.

Canon will not back down from the new $3500 price of the 5D series.
But this price is too high for many of the buyers that made the 5DII a big seller.

At the same time, the current 6D is quite a misguided product.
It's obvious that the 6D was an afterthought - designed after the 5DIII specs were frozen.
It's also obvious that Canon did not have a unified vision for the 6D and 5DIII.

But the next generation offerings will likely fix all that. That's my prediction.
In 2015, Canon will have the 5DIV at $3500 and the 6DII at $2500.
Both spec'd accordingly and, most importantly, differentiated appropriately.
Not with lower x-sync speed and different button layout.

Given these prices for the FF offerings, a 7DII priced at around $1800 starts to make sense.

All speculation and fun of course. We will see.
But the 70D's plastic body alone is an indication to me that Canon is planning a 7DII.

Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 13,605
Re: Nah... doubtful

Jerry-astro wrote:

... The 6D is any entry level full frame which happens to be at somewhere close to the same price point that is projected for the 7DMk2. These are two completely different product lines, one with relatively entry level features (focus subsystem, frame rate) and the other at the top of the crop line, likely with a much more sophisticated focus subsystem, much faster frame rate, and other features which are targeted at the same shooters that would buy (and have bought) the 7D. Portrait and landscape photographers -- who are the perfect target market for the 6D -- generally don't benefit from these capabilities and are a mismatch for the 7D's target customer base. The improved IQ of the 6D would be awesome to have in a 7D successor, but if you're shooting birds or sports, the 6D is likely not going to be your 7D upgrade since it's lacking in so many features that the 4-year old 7D already has... let alone its successor.

Bottom line: there's nothing wrong with having multiple product lines that share price points. It's done all the time in a host of different markets (some high tech... some not). Looking at the 6D as a 7D successor might fit your specific needs in a camera, but for many others, including myself, it's a terrible fit and not even on the list of possibilities. A 5DmK3 might be, but the higher price point plus the additional expense of a TC to compensate for the lack of reach makes it a non starter for me anyway.

Nicely summed up.

Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 7,177
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2

skanter wrote:

Limburger wrote:

skanter wrote:

WilbaW wrote:

The way I see it, if the 70D were a replacement for the 7D it would have spot AF (and the other advanced PD AF features that didn't carry over).

60D has spot AF, I would assume 70D has it as well.

-
Sam K., NYC

Hi Sam,

Could it be you mistaken weighing exposure for locked af point(s) in evaluative?

No, I was confusing spot-metering, which the 60D has, with spot-AF, as I mostly use center-point focusing and they are quite similar. I don't really get the difference between centerpoint and spot AF, perhaps someone can clarify?

See the post by Jerry-astro a little further up this thread for a good explanation. Or download the 7D manual from the Canon site. I find spot AF to be very useful in quite specific circumstances. I don't use it often, but when I do, I'm really glad to have it. And spot can work with any of the focus points, not just the center point.

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 63,868
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2
1

x-vision wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

Selling two different products into one space is splitting the market. You don't get twice the sales but you do get two sets of R&D costs, two sets of inventory costs, two marketing budgets and so on.

Agree. The 7DII and 6D will be competing for the same money ... initially.

And for people who think otherwise, see this thread  - a person who seems to be a natural '6D' thinking of a 7D

Yes, it makes little sense at this time to have both the 6D and 7DII at the same price point.
Two years from now, though, things will look differently, IMO.

Two years from now would leave the 7D at six years old.

Canon will not back down from the new $3500 price of the 5D series.
But this price is too high for many of the buyers that made the 5DII a big seller.

Despite many people's predictions (including mine) the 5DIII is a big seller. I think there is a reason for this...

At the same time, the current 6D is quite a misguided product.
It's obvious that the 6D was an afterthought - designed after the 5DIII specs were frozen.
It's also obvious that Canon did not have a unified vision for the 6D and 5DIII.

I'm not so sure. The strategy probably emanates a bit from Canon's current sensor squeeze, but when you think about it is well though out. The 6D is really the 5D Mark III. It is simply the 5D Mk II with a few extra features, but a lower price point (that being one of its big features - and it just continues the price trend from Mk I to Mk II). The 5D MkIII is however quite a different camera from the previous 5D's. What it is really is a 7D Mk II, in that it is pretty much precisely a 7D but with two big enhancements, one is a FF sensor, the other is much better AF. I have no figures, but I suspect that a lot of 5DIII owners upgraded from a 7D.

But the next generation offerings will likely fix all that. That's my prediction.
In 2015, Canon will have the 5DIV at $3500 and the 6DII at $2500.
Both spec'd accordingly and, most importantly, differentiated appropriately.
Not with lower x-sync speed and different button layout.

Given these prices for the FF offerings, a 7DII priced at around $1800 starts to make sense.

All speculation and fun of course. We will see.
But the 70D's plastic body alone is an indication to me that Canon is planning a 7DII.

We will see, but I really do have my doubts. I have heard from two independent industry sources that they expect the DSLR market (as opposed to mirror less) to be entirely full frame by the next full generation. It's quite possible that the 70D will be 'replaced' by an 8D rather than an 80D. I think we are seeing a transition, and part of that is manufacturers getting higher unit prices by using FF to keep the DSLR turnover up in the face of falling volumes (long term, they are on an upward blip right now). I would more expect to see an expansion of the EOS-M range, including the dual pixel tech to three models covering the whole APS-C market and a four model FF range with 1D and variants, 5D, 6D and 8D models. The 70D's plastic body is just a reflection of where canon currently sees the top end of APS-C and what it has to do to make a profit from it.

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Bob

Karl Gnter Wnsch Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Re: 7D - 70D - 7D2
1

Bobn2 wrote:

The 70D's plastic body is just a reflection of where canon currently sees the top end of APS-C and what it has to do to make a profit from it.

Wrong. As the 70D is the successor of the 60D with SD-card, swivel LCD and plastic body this is a reflection of where Canon currently sees the mid range APS-C - especially as the 70D is lacking in many of the pro grade features that already relegated the 60D to the mid range tier.

So your view on things is severely marred by your lack of understanding what product placement means. The 70D is meant to replace the 60D, it follows suit in features and has been upgraded as usual for such a mid level camera - it isn't meant to replace the 7D, in important areas it does not even come close to the 4 year old camera!

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regards
Karl Günter Wünsch

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Canon EOS 7D Mark II
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