Cell phones not taking over?

Started Jul 15, 2013 | Discussions
rovingtim Veteran Member • Posts: 8,640
How does this fit into your theory?
1
coudet Veteran Member • Posts: 3,974
Re: Cell phones not taking over?
1

AlanPezz wrote:

I went to my granddaughters kindergarten graduation recently and about 70 percent of the parents were shootin with cell phones. About 15 percent were shooting with DSLRs and 15 percent with bridge cameras. Point and shoots have disappeared.

Not surprised. Cellphones provide the ability to non-photographers to take snapshots. They don't have to buy a camera anymore, they don't have to carry two devices instead of one. Cellphone cameras are perfect for them.

The bridge camera shooters are probably looking for better image quality. Improved cell phones will eat into this market.

IMHO, any improvement in the camera cellphones is wasted on the intended market. I don't know a non-photographer who cares about image quality. I don't know anyone who dumped their Android for a 41mp Nokia. It's not the camera that sells the cellphone.

On the other hand, people who do care, photographers, will not be dumping their cameras for cellphones. IQ is, and will, remain horrible. The overall experience of shooting with a cellphone is, and will, remain horrible.

hdkhang Regular Member • Posts: 169
Re: Cell phones not taking over?
1

coudet wrote:

AlanPezz wrote:

I went to my granddaughters kindergarten graduation recently and about 70 percent of the parents were shootin with cell phones. About 15 percent were shooting with DSLRs and 15 percent with bridge cameras. Point and shoots have disappeared.

Not surprised. Cellphones provide the ability to non-photographers to take snapshots. They don't have to buy a camera anymore, they don't have to carry two devices instead of one. Cellphone cameras are perfect for them.

The bridge camera shooters are probably looking for better image quality. Improved cell phones will eat into this market.

IMHO, any improvement in the camera cellphones is wasted on the intended market. I don't know a non-photographer who cares about image quality. I don't know anyone who dumped their Android for a 41mp Nokia. It's not the camera that sells the cellphone.

On the other hand, people who do care, photographers, will not be dumping their cameras for cellphones. IQ is, and will, remain horrible. The overall experience of shooting with a cellphone is, and will, remain horrible.

I know plenty of people who value photography who pay special attention to the camera in their smartphone. The Lumia 1020 if you haven't noticed comes with an optional accessory grip which adds a tripod mount, additional battery and a nicer shutter button - it's also reasonably priced as well. In time these accessories will become more prevalent and we will have options to add functionality to extend smartphones in much the same way we do other devices. This isn't about people replacing their camera gear with smartphones - I need a smartphone more than I need a camera, I enjoy using my cameras, but I don't always carry them with me. For me, the quality of the smartphone camera did play a role. It is not unlike pros who carry a more compact camera with them when they travel even though they already have access to D4/1Dx etc.

 hdkhang's gear list:hdkhang's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Nikon 1 AW1 Nikon D810 Olympus E-PL7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +13 more
Lights
Lights Veteran Member • Posts: 3,573
Re: Cell phones not taking over?

My thinking is that cell phones have enabled people to take billions+++ of photos that otherwise wouldn't have been taken. In some ways it's not taking over, but adding to. People previously had no option of taking the kinds of pictures that they take with their phones, except using point and shoots.  The quality in some of the better phones approaches point and shoot quality (at least of a few years ago of cheaper P&S cameras)...well at any rate, they're good enough for most people's needs. Memories, snapshots...kind of like the brownie and box cameras of film days. They certainly are handy, and yes some quite good artistic work has been done with them....but although some quite good pencil drawings have been done, serious painting hasn't been replaced...they're just different.

I know my kids use their phones a lot and they're pretty good comparatively...but when there is an event, or something important they usually still take their P&S cameras. I use my phone, since I've got it with me (even though it's pretty crummy) it's OK for snaps...

I don't believe cell phones will replace dedicated cameras...for quite a number of reasons. It's my thinking that they might actually cause a rise in sales of better photographic tools eventually... as more and more people, through using cell phones, become more interested in photography and run into the limits of what cell phones can/can't do.

-- hide signature --

My Gallery is here -
http://www.pbase.com/madlights
Why so serious? :The Joker

Rexgig0 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,196
Re: Cell phones not taking over?

When I retire, I may well smash both of my mobile phones with a hammer. Having to be available via phone for much of my life, as a condition of employment, and having to monitor a radio constantly while at work, I am quite ready to be disconnected. Moreover, neither of my present mobile phones have any images in them, the camera function being a total waste of space.

-- hide signature --

I wear a badge and pistol, and, primarily with 7D cameras, shoot evidentiary images at night, which incorporates elements of portrait, macro, still life, landscape, architecture, PJ, and occasional action.

 Rexgig0's gear list:Rexgig0's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EF 135mm F2L USM Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED +30 more
Lights
Lights Veteran Member • Posts: 3,573
Re: Cell phones not taking over?

Rexgig0 wrote:

When I retire, I may well smash both of my mobile phones with a hammer. Having to be available via phone for much of my life, as a condition of employment, and having to monitor a radio constantly while at work, I am quite ready to be disconnected. Moreover, neither of my present mobile phones have any images in them, the camera function being a total waste of space.

-- hide signature --

I wear a badge and pistol, and, primarily with 7D cameras, shoot evidentiary images at night, which incorporates elements of portrait, macro, still life, landscape, architecture, PJ, and occasional action.

I sure can understand your point of view. I work in a service related job, and have the option of turning my phone off (and do), since when it's on can't get anything done...so just call in and see where or when I'm needed every so often. Not that you can...think I'd smash mine with a hammer too, when I didn't need it any more in your case...

I remember seeing a guy I know jump on his pager once (remember those) smashed it into a thousand pieces.

Some of the kids (young adults) I work around are like zombies, there's a certain stare they have when hypnotized to their phones. It's kinda creepy.

-- hide signature --

My Gallery is here -
http://www.pbase.com/madlights
Why so serious? :The Joker

Peter Del Veteran Member • Posts: 3,447
Re: Cell phones not taking over?
 Peter Del's gear list:Peter Del's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus PEN-F Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 14-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 +4 more
Picturenaut
Picturenaut Regular Member • Posts: 330
Re: Cell phones not taking over?

It is no either/or question. Cell phones are nice additions to DSLR gear for skilled shooters. I use my Galaxy and have fun with it but I'd really miss my SLR gear if I'd sell it. I think that cell phones and tabloids will be more used for remote control of DSLRs, so both technologies can profit from each other.

Cell phones already kill the mediocre compacts market, and that's logical.

-- hide signature --

Picturenaut

 Picturenaut's gear list:Picturenaut's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM +13 more
Jeff Veteran Member • Posts: 5,087
That article is out of date ...

rovingtim wrote:

http://petapixel.com/2012/04/26/dslr-sales-surging-despite-onslaught-from-camera-phones/

Though it is only 15 months old, that article is already badly dated. Since then both mirrorless and dslr shipments have fallen, and the bottom has fallen out of the P&S market.

Rexgig0 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,196
Re: Cell phones not taking over?

To clarify, I am not anti-tech, nor a DSLR/SLR die-hard. I appreciate the utility of my mobile wi-fi device, and iPad, and am saving for another Nikon Coolpix A, as my wife claimed the first one. I dream of owning a Sony RX1, or similar large-sensor compact.

Regarding camera phones, I feel no need to take a picture, and then send the image within seconds. Uploading the image to a tablet or computer, and then sending it via E-mail, is plenty fast enough for me.

Some of my disgust at camera phones is also due to failures of some "smart" phones being used by members of my family. It is, in my opinion, better to separate the functions into different devices, camera, phone, and tablet, so that one failure does not stop photography, voice communication, and internet, at once. Both of the Droid Razors, and two Casio G'Zone Brigades, on my family account, have failed, recently. The Droid Razors only lasted a few months. The "smarter" the phone, it seems, the more prone to failure. Warranties may be wonderful, but getting a replacement device is time-consuming.

-- hide signature --

I wear a badge and pistol, and, primarily with 7D cameras, shoot evidentiary images at night, which incorporates elements of portrait, macro, still life, landscape, architecture, PJ, and occasional action.

 Rexgig0's gear list:Rexgig0's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EF 135mm F2L USM Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED +30 more
Jeff Veteran Member • Posts: 5,087
Re: Duh!

TrapperJohn wrote:

41mp on a cell phone is like putting a garbage disposal on a car. It's an all but useless combination.

Zeiss is a respected name, but 41mp through a $25 lens... unless they have come up with a major leap in lens technology that hasn't been announced, IQ even before a crop won't be good, and a crop will just magnify the flaws.

Just when the move from paper to electronic display means you need maybe 6mp to fill up a 60" high def TV, too.

DOF control will be nonexistant. Who needs portrait shots, anyway?

DR? Let's see if DxO can come up with a number low enough to measure this puppy.

Oh, and sending that image? Cell phone bandwith is already pricey. Push a few ugly 41mp images through that, and watch your data charges go through the roof. You could downres them, but then why do you need 41mp?

This is a desperate move by a fading cell phone maker. I seriously doubt that the buying public is going to abandon the wealth of iOS and Android software, and put up with Windows Phone 8, to get 41mp with one fixed low priced lens, low DR, high noise, no VF, no flash options...

Here's an article reviewing the camera technology of the 1020. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/15/nokia_lumia_1020_technical_walkthrough/

The pace of innovation in these small devices is amazing.

Sk8trguy Regular Member • Posts: 293
sorry it bothers you so much
3

ljfinger wrote:

Who cares what non-enthsiasts use? I'm here because I am an enthusiast. I'm also into high end audio. Do you think I care that most people listen to MP3s on the crummy ear buds that came with their phones? Do you think those will kill off high end audio gear for enthusiasts? I'm also into astronomy. Do you think I care that most people never even look at the night sky with their eyes much less own a telescope? Do you think that kills telescopes for enthusiasts?
--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

you say, 'who cares', but i you always get very defensive in threads that mention the explosion of smartphone use, and the stagnation of dslr sales.

if you really don't care, why do you keep posting in thread about cell phones?

Sk8trguy Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: or....
1

ljfinger wrote:

Sk8trguy wrote:

ljfinger wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

The Nokia 41mp does have a clever zoom system built in , it crops to zoom so to speak - better than it sounds!

The math doesn't work. Zooming in 2x reduces pixel count by 4x. Zooming in 20x, like with my wife's camera, reduces pixel count by 400x. How's that 0.1MP looking to you?

or most of the time you can take a few steps closer.

On Sunday, we were at the lake, and moving a few steps closer would have meant walking on water.

...except i said 'most of the time' not 'all of the time'. i guess you missed that.

most people can live without a 20x zoom. in fact most people have never owned one.

Most people can live with a cell phone, because most people don't care about photography.

well that is pretty elitist. most people with smartphones do use the camera, and millions post images to social media. above you said, 'Who cares what non-enthsiasts use?' so it it is pretty clear you claim smartphones are not real cameras and these people are incapable of photography...unlike you who is an enthusiast.  

Lee Jay Forum Pro • Posts: 52,338
Re: or....
1

Sk8trguy wrote:

ljfinger wrote:

Sk8trguy wrote:

ljfinger wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

The Nokia 41mp does have a clever zoom system built in , it crops to zoom so to speak - better than it sounds!

The math doesn't work. Zooming in 2x reduces pixel count by 4x. Zooming in 20x, like with my wife's camera, reduces pixel count by 400x. How's that 0.1MP looking to you?

or most of the time you can take a few steps closer.

On Sunday, we were at the lake, and moving a few steps closer would have meant walking on water.

...except i said 'most of the time' not 'all of the time'. i guess you missed that.

I'd say it's rare that moving closer is the answer.  It changes perspective - often in a very undesirable way - and is most often either not possible or horribly inconvenient.

most people can live without a 20x zoom. in fact most people have never owned one.

Most people can live with a cell phone, because most people don't care about photography.

well that is pretty elitist. most people with smartphones do use the camera, and millions post images to social media. above you said, 'Who cares what non-enthsiasts use?' so it it is pretty clear you claim smartphones are not real cameras and these people are incapable of photography...

Not incapable, just uninterested.

unlike you who is an enthusiast.

Correct - I do care about photography.

-- hide signature --

Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 Lee Jay's gear list:Lee Jay's gear list
Canon IXUS 310 HS Canon PowerShot SX260 HS Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 20D Canon EOS 550D +22 more
hovirag New Member • Posts: 19
Re: Cell phones not taking over?

Interesting concept you have... never return to read what others have to say... but anyways back to the topic

it might become a reality very soon, yet I still take photos with my camera and not my i-phone... surely phone companies want to put their legs into as many markets as possible, but there will be people like me who just love to separate things

Jeff Veteran Member • Posts: 5,087
Did you read the rest of the article?

Darrell Spreen wrote:

Sk8trguy wrote:

does anyone honestly believe that smartphones are not the #1 most used cameras in the world?

From the UK Telegraph:

Figures show that 80 per cent of us use a digital camera or camcorder, with 40 per cent relying on them exclusively.

This compares to the 45 per cent who use their smartphone.

-- hide signature --

Darrell

That year-old article was based on a Mintel report, found here http://www.mintel.com/press-centre/technology-press-centre/sales-of-digital-cameras-decline-as-consumers-snap-up-smartphones, which said 45 percent of UK adults use smartphone for photography.  40% use digital cameras or camcorders exclusively.  So it seems that the mass market adoption of smartphones for photography is well underway in the UK

In fact, that was the headline of the report.  It's worth a read.

rovingtim Veteran Member • Posts: 8,640
How about to May 2013?
1
Jeff Veteran Member • Posts: 5,087
Indeed ...
2

rovingtim wrote:

http://www.43rumors.com/camera-slaes-history-from-2011-till-today-mirrorless-hype-is-over-dslr-rules/

The data you cite compares DSLR's to mirrorless over a 15 month period.  So while dslr is doing well *relative* mirrorless, both are showing softness relative to last year.

Here's a graphic that I did a week or so ago covering a much longer time frame.  The 2013 is a projection based on data through May, 2013.

We'll see what coming months bring, but it doesn't look good for any segment of the camera industry (or at least the Japanese manufacturers which is what is represented in this data).

Lee Jay Forum Pro • Posts: 52,338
Re: sorry it bothers you so much
1

Sk8trguy wrote:

ljfinger wrote:

Who cares what non-enthsiasts use? I'm here because I am an enthusiast. I'm also into high end audio. Do you think I care that most people listen to MP3s on the crummy ear buds that came with their phones? Do you think those will kill off high end audio gear for enthusiasts? I'm also into astronomy. Do you think I care that most people never even look at the night sky with their eyes much less own a telescope? Do you think that kills telescopes for enthusiasts?

you say, 'who cares', but i you always get very defensive in threads that mention the explosion of smartphone use, and the stagnation of dslr sales.

if you really don't care, why do you keep posting in thread about cell phones?

Because this site is not about those who don't care about photography! Take the cell phone garbage to facebook or connect or something at least until they because more than bottom-end compact competitors.

-- hide signature --

Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 Lee Jay's gear list:Lee Jay's gear list
Canon IXUS 310 HS Canon PowerShot SX260 HS Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 20D Canon EOS 550D +22 more
Darrell Spreen Forum Pro • Posts: 10,455
Re: sorry it bothers you so much
3

Sk8trguy wrote:

you say, 'who cares', but i you always get very defensive in threads that mention the explosion of smartphone use, and the stagnation of dslr sales.

if you really don't care, why do you keep posting in thread about cell phones?

The reason we keep posting is that the "Connect" forums were created for you to share your cell phone thoughts.  We would really like to keep these DPR forums about cameras and serious photography.  We DO care, but not about cell phones.

BTW, the "explosion" you keep referring to has taken place over a couple of years.  Where have you been?

-- hide signature --

Darrell

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads