LF1 has NON-STANDARD USB port!

Yeah, I think UC-E6 is the name Nikon gave this custom connector, not sure who came up with it initially but the fact that it's not standard USB and that there's multiple pin configs just adds to the confusion of the whole deal... At least Panasonic has been using the same pin output for a while so cables are easy to find and cheap.

Bestbatt.com has an LF1 battery charger listed btw, $17, not available yet tho; looks rather bulky too but I guess for the price I wouldn't complain, Panasonic would probably charge 2x. I ended up ordering the retractable cable off B&H for $15 plus shipping, I think Adorama charges slightly less for shipping but I didn't have an Adorama account already and I'm lazy.

It looks like Monoprice's 6ft $1.50 cable might work despite the compatible models listed being rather old, not sure tho, it's the 8-pin one, just search for Panasonic & USB there... Probably the cheapest you'll find it and it has the ferrite chokes FWIW, which I noticed a lot of Amazon cables lack (tho I don't think the filtering would matter at all if it's just for charging).

I actually ordered the Monoprice one as well even though I'm not sure it's the right one, needed to get some other stuff there anyway so for $1.50, whatever. I'll let y'all know how it world. If you wanna be safe then ABC on Amazon has one that explicitly states it's compressible with more recent Panasonic models.

I'm on a similar boat as Ron, when I travel I have several devices that can use the same charger and even cables so I try to minimize cable clutter as much as possible... Apple's just about the best (worst?) example of a company using proprietary connectors for no significant reason other than greed btw, I try not to encourage or applaud that.

My tablet, smartphone, Bluetooth receiver for headphones, tiny portable speaker, SanDisk Clip Zip MP3 player, USB battery pack, and AA/AAA battery charger all hook up via micro USB to standard 5V/1A chargers so it's very convenient (well, the Eneloop battery charger has a built in USB cable)... That's seven devices, probably forgetting something, my camera's now the only one for which I need a custom cable. Not the end of the world (I appreciate at least being able to use the same charger), but worth a sigh nonetheless.

I carry one retractable micro USB cable, a very short one (for hooking up devices to the USB battery while in my bag or pocket), and a M/F USB extension into which I can plug different USB adapters (though I think the only thing I own that still uses mini rather than micro is a tiny portable gamepad that folds in half). To complement that I carry a couple of small identical chargers I can use interchangeably (plus a small power strip, candy bar sized, comes in VERY handy at airports).

Three similar cables & three identical chargers (just to be able to recharge a few at a time) to serve up to SEVEN different devices, plus the Panasonic cable.

Oh and one short USB OTG cable plus a small Kingston card reader so I can easily read memory cards from the phone/tablet or even hook up the phone, MP3 player, or camera directly to the phone/tablet and read/manipulate the contents. USB OTG is awesome, almost as convenient as the LF1's Wifi implementation (though that obviously serves remote control functions as well).

Impulses wrote:

Oh and one short USB OTG cable plus a small Kingston card reader so I can easily read memory cards from the phone/tablet or even hook up the phone, MP3 player, or camera directly to the phone/tablet and read/manipulate the contents. USB OTG is awesome, almost as convenient as the LF1's Wifi implementation (though that obviously serves remote control functions as well).

Plus some sort of power strip which can fit all the different shaped transformer blocks

FWIW, I usually find short 3-socket extension cords more flexible than a power strip

Sherm

I hope not, cause you're totally right. Most devices use between 0.5A and 1A so as long as you've got a 1A USB charger then you're totally set. Worst case scenario is a device defaults to 0.5A for some reason (sometimes they expect slightly different pin configurations to signal fast charging is available) and ends up charging a little slower... Probably not a common scenario if you're using a phone charger that has the data pins shorted.

The LF1 charger itself puts out 0.8A like many Motorola chargers (even though their phones can actually charge at 1A). The only exceptions to this are a scant few recent phones (like the Samsung Galaxy Note II) which can charge even faster (2A) and larger tablets (most 10" models) which also require more current (or they'll take forever to charge, if at all). Usually not an issue with the smaller 7-8" Android/Kindle tablets.

Even GPS devises and a lot of other electronics have mostly moved to micro USB and standard (or semi standard) USB charging specs.

The three HTC chargers I carry (or two HTC and the random one that came with my battery, it's even smaller tho) are actually compact enough that it's usually not an issue to plug them side by side or below/above each other...

I travel with a small power strip (it could literally fit in a large sunglasses case, 4 ports) simply because I've been in situations where there's several people on the verge of fighting (or simply waiting in line) to make use of airport outlets and such... Power strip's easy to pull out and leave dangling from those charging station ports so more people can plug in simultaneously. The surge protection gives me some peace of mind too.

The extension's probably a better idea if you're staying in hotels a lot tho... Some of the rooms I've been in have outlets in some of the most inconvenient places... Behind furniture or lamps, not near anything you can lay your devices on, etc.

Oh oh, and a dual port car charger just in case, lol... It's usually easier to modify one for 1A charging on both ports, because most seem to be made for 1A on one port and then either 0.5A or 2.1 (with Apple devices only) on the second. For anyone not handy with a soldering iron tho, HTC makes just about the only true dual port 1A charger I've found... Couple of bucks on Amazon, comes with a decent coiled cable.

What? Are you saying everything else should be using Panasonic's port? You lost me...

Barry Margolius wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

Impulses wrote:

What? Are you saying everything else should be using Panasonic's port? You lost me...

How different is that from saying that Panasonic should use someone else's standard ?

Because the Panasonic port is not a standard. Panasonic does not, as far as I can tell, even publicly post it's design specs and pin outs. Possibly (probably?) Panasonic would sue any other manufacturer who used its design.

Micro USB is a recognized standard. It is used by dozens (probably hundreds) of manufacturers including virtually every cell phone company and many camera companies: Sony, Samsung, Fuji, and Canon (well they use the mini USB standard, but at least it is a standard) that I know of.

So yes, I am saying that it would make my life a tiny bit easier as a customer if Panasonic would use a standard port rather than designing one of their own.

-barry

Barry,

Are you saying that the LF1 connector is different from the UC-E6 which is used by panasonic and lots of others as listed here?

http://pinoutsguide.com/DigitalCameras/micro_usb_8pin_camera_pinout.shtml

Sherm

Impulses wrote:

What? Are you saying everything else should be using Panasonic's port? You lost me...

How different is that from saying that Panasonic should use someone else's standard ?

Are you serious with this or are you just trying to troll right now? The port Panasonic is using doesn't conform to any sort of standard, just because Nikon and whomever else used it at some point doesn't make it a standard others can traditionally adhere too...

Panasonic itself has changed the pin config while keeping the port the same, which is the opposite of what you do with a standard unless you design it to be backwards compatible (e.g. USB 2.0 & 3.0).

Standards are usually set by neutral bodies (IEEE etc) or agreed upon by several manufacturers and the specs are then set in stone. USB (full, mini, and micro) are widely recognized standards, published specs, the ports went thru a lot of open R&D and durability testing etc.

The port on the LF1 is not standard, by any formal definition of the term, end of story.

Barry Margolius wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

Impulses wrote:

What? Are you saying everything else should be using Panasonic's port? You lost me...

How different is that from saying that Panasonic should use someone else's standard ?

Because the Panasonic port is not a standard. Panasonic does not, as far as I can tell, even publicly post it's design specs and pin outs. Possibly (probably?) Panasonic would sue any other manufacturer who used its design.

True, the Panasonic portdoes not follow the Micro USB standard, but keep in mind that:

1. It does appear to follow the USB standard - which has allowances for proprietary interfaces and connectors
2. Their port predates the extensions for Micro USB and Power Charging which you'd like them to follow now. They apparently have decided to stick with the status quo for now - it's tough to fault them for that as they likely get complaint when the do change as well.

BTW - google the connector Panasonic does use and most references returned will include the name Nikon.

Micro USB is a recognized standard. It is used by dozens (probably hundreds) of manufacturers including virtually every cell phone company and many camera companies: Sony, Samsung, Fuji, and Canon (well they use the mini USB standard, but at least it is a standard) that I know of.

Again - what came first? The chicken or the egg?

It wasn't long ago that every cell phone seemed to have its own special cable too.  It wasn't until cell phone makers got together and extended the USB standard that we got to this point.  Sure, it would be nice if Panny led the way...

So yes, I am saying that it would make my life a tiny bit easier as a customer if Panasonic would use a standard port rather than designing one of their own.

Panasonic did their initial design work years ago, so it's not like they reinvented the wheel for the LF1.

Barry Margolius wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

Impulses wrote:

What? Are you saying everything else should be using Panasonic's port? You lost me...

How different is that from saying that Panasonic should use someone else's standard ?

Because the Panasonic port is not a standard. Panasonic does not, as far as I can tell, even publicly post it's design specs and pin outs. Possibly (probably?) Panasonic would sue any other manufacturer who used its design.

Micro USB is a recognized standard. It is used by dozens (probably hundreds) of manufacturers including virtually every cell phone company and many camera companies: Sony, Samsung, Fuji, and Canon (well they use the mini USB standard, but at least it is a standard) that I know of.

So yes, I am saying that it would make my life a tiny bit easier as a customer if Panasonic would use a standard port rather than designing one of their own.

-barry

Barry,

Are you saying that the LF1 connector is different from the UC-E6 which is used by panasonic and lots of others as listed here?

http://pinoutsguide.com/DigitalCameras/micro_usb_8pin_camera_pinout.shtml

Sherm

I believe UC-E6 was actually the name Nikon themselves gave the connector... I think the current pin config Panasonic is using is exactly that one but I'm not sure as the only cable I've got to look at right now is the LF1's... Panasonic has actually changed the pin config while using the same connector at least once already, so the connector itself doesn't really tell ya anything.

Figuring it out by looking at fuzzy online pics or comparing the different model cameras that have used X or Y cable is too much of a hassle, I just ordered two different cables and I'll go from there... Based off those two I'll probably have a pretty good idea tho, but I just got the Monoprice one cause it was cheap (I'm assuming Panasonic's retractable one should definitely work since it's a listed accessory for the camera).

Lots of manufacturers are not still using this tho, that site lists some very very old models... For one, Konica/Minolta doesn't even exist anymore, and Sony definitely moved on to micro USB even though they were amongst the worst about proprietary connectors (Memory Stick Duo anyone? Heck my Cybershot from three years ago requires a Sony-specific dongle for HDMI out). Pretty sure Olympus did too, dunno about Fuji/Pentax...

Even if several camera manufacturers decided to use the same non-standard USB port (making it quasi-standard), it's still to the detriment of customers who will often have half a dozen other electronic devices which adhere to a standard USB port spec that won't randomly change and can guarantee compatibility.

Barry Margolius wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

Impulses wrote:

What? Are you saying everything else should be using Panasonic's port? You lost me...

How different is that from saying that Panasonic should use someone else's standard ?

Because the Panasonic port is not a standard. Panasonic does not, as far as I can tell, even publicly post it's design specs and pin outs. Possibly (probably?) Panasonic would sue any other manufacturer who used its design.

True, the Panasonic portdoes not follow the Micro USB standard, but keep in mind that:

1. It does appear to follow the USB standard - which has allowances for proprietary interfaces and connectors
2. Their port predates the extensions for Micro USB and Power Charging which you'd like them to follow now. They apparently have decided to stick with the status quo for now - it's tough to fault them for that as they likely get complaint when the do change as well.

BTW - google the connector Panasonic does use and most references returned will include the name Nikon.

Micro USB is a recognized standard. It is used by dozens (probably hundreds) of manufacturers including virtually every cell phone company and many camera companies: Sony, Samsung, Fuji, and Canon (well they use the mini USB standard, but at least it is a standard) that I know of.

Again - what came first? The chicken or the egg?

It wasn't long ago that every cell phone seemed to have its own special cable too.  It wasn't until cell phone makers got together and extended the USB standard that we got to this point.  Sure, it would be nice if Panny led the way...

So yes, I am saying that it would make my life a tiny bit easier as a customer if Panasonic would use a standard port rather than designing one of their own.

Panasonic did their initial design work years ago, so it's not like they reinvented the wheel for the LF1.

Well, that much is mostly true... They did start using the port for lack of a better alternative and at least they've been (mostly) consistent. Although micro USB use has been pretty widespread for at least three years now (even amidst smartphones), and charging has always been part of the spec which was established much earlier... Plus there was mini USB before that, which honestly doesn't face a size limitation on cameras like it does on phones (I've got five or six year old GPS that use micro for data AND charging).

Only somewhat recent (3 years ago?) development was when phone manufacturers started shorting data pins to signal to the devices that chargers could supply more than half an amp, I'm not sure that's ever really become part of the standard tbh, though the practice is very widespread (it's not the only way of pulling more than an amp thru the port tho, and it can be done at the cable too). When did the EU mandate that phones HAD to use micro USB btw? (even tho by that point everyone but Apple was already headed that way...)

Micro USB and USB use in general goes well beyond phones and cameras tho, so it's not like we're talking just one or two industries here. I think Pany's had more than enough time to switch over tho I can understand why they'd wanna put it off. It's like ripping a band-aid tho...

That should read mini USB for my old GPS device on my previous post... Why does the mobile board interface lack an edit button? And why does the desktop version editor hate my phone's browser?

Seriously tho, I would be even be glad if they had moved to mini a while ago even though micro's mostly made it irrelevant (more common and more durable, according to wear tests, which they do for standards y'know...); although I've never seen a combine video/data mini port (which has been done like a dozen different ways with micro)... So there's probably technical reasons they never moved to mini earlier even though other camera manufacturers did.