LF1 has NON-STANDARD USB port!

You should look up those standards instead of criticizing him so harshly, I looked into it (even though I already knew most off the top of my head). Panasonic's connector doesn't conform to ANY of the standard mini/micro USB plugs... There's an A/B for each, simply just so consumers wouldn't plug one device into another when the cable is terminated in the same size at both ends, which is rare. It's NOT any of those four nor any of the OTG variants which are physically the same nor USB 3.0 obviously.

Now it might not be accurate to call it a proprietary connector either, since AFAIK Panasonic didn't patent it or anything and other companies (mainly Nikon I think) have in fact used it as well. It's definitely not accurate to describe it as any sort of standard either. In fact it's quite a disservice to people looking to get the right cable as it just adds to the confusion. Panasonic themselves don't help since they never seem to have labeled the connector (unlike Nikon which gave it a model number) AND they even changed the pin output used a few years ago while using the same connector.

Some sites describe it as mini B or something, which is also wildly inaccurate. All that being said, I don't think it's the end of the world that they did this and I still prefer it to not having the option to charge in-camera at all (don't see why anyone wouldn't). If you need a second cable you can grab it off Amazon for $5-10, they're widely available (just pay close attention to the listed model compatibility). A retractable one is about $18 elsewhere and $20+ on Amazon. An external battery charger always remains an option as well and they're cheap (<$15), tho the ones one seen are a bit bulky.

Impulses wrote:

You should look up those standards instead of criticizing him so harshly, I looked into it (even though I already knew most off the top of my head). Panasonic's connector doesn't conform to ANY of the standard mini/micro USB plugs... There's an A/B for each, simply just so consumers wouldn't plug one device into another when the cable is terminated in the same size at both ends, which is rare. It's NOT any of those four nor any of the OTG variants which are physically the same nor USB 3.0 obviously.

Now it might not be accurate to call it a proprietary connector either, since AFAIK Panasonic didn't patent it or anything and other companies (mainly Nikon I think) have in fact used it as well. It's definitely not accurate to describe it as any sort of standard either. In fact it's quite a disservice to people looking to get the right cable as it just adds to the confusion. Panasonic themselves don't help since they never seem to have labeled the connector (unlike Nikon which gave it a model number) AND they even changed the pin output used a few years ago while using the same connector.

Some sites describe it as mini B or something, which is also wildly inaccurate. All that being said, I don't think it's the end of the world that they did this and I still prefer it to not having the option to charge in-camera at all (don't see why anyone wouldn't). If you need a second cable you can grab it off Amazon for $5-10, they're widely available (just pay close attention to the listed model compatibility). A retractable one is about $18 elsewhere and $20+ on Amazon. An external battery charger always remains an option as well and they're cheap (<$15), tho the ones one seen are a bit bulky.

When you buy a Panasonic camera, you're also supplied with the appropriate battery charger.
Most people I know have a second battery, switch batteries when one is next to out, keep taking pictures while the other one is reloading.
The cable is a non issue, only a useful argument if you absolutely want to rant about something.

I can find much better reasons not to buy the LF1.

Actually, I think you're a bit off the mark once again. The LF1 and other recent Panasonic compacts don't come with a separate battery charger FYI. They come with a smartphone-like AC-USB charger and the cable to connect the camera to said charger, period. This is actually pretty common now and not something particular to Pany (tho others are now using standard micro USB cables, unlike Pany/Nikon etc.).

So you can't effectively charge a second battery while using the camera unless you spend extra for a charger, and Panasonic doesn't currently sell (or even make) one for the new LF1 battery. There's some third party chargers available though. I agree that overall it's not a reason to rant, much less a reason to discount the LF1, but it IS a pointless annoyance Panasonic could eliminate (just like finally getting rid of the playback slide switch).

There's probably technical reasons why they haven't moved to micro USB, rather than some nefarious plot to sell more cables... For one it'd break compressibility with their current AV out cable (tho at this stage that should probably be deprecated anyway, can't be too many people out there buying this while having a TV sans HDMI), and that's probably tied in with some of their IC which I imagine gets reused across cameras...

Do you have the LF1 or another recent model though? I'm pretty sure recent models (ZS30, ZS25, LF1, etc.) which feature in-camera charging don't come with a separate charger regardless of location, just with the data/power USB cable and the USB charger (yeah they don't even come with the AV cable anymore, but HDMI is all over the place anyway).

You're probably referring to older models (I could be mistaken), many (most?) of them didn't even feature in-camera charging so they HAD to come with a separate charger. That trend is changing tho, a separate charger is usually an extra expense now, tough a minor one ($17 at Bestbatt.com). Luckily if your next camera lacks a charger you may already have one that works, unless it's an LF1 and it uses a new battery.

What I'm getting at is that I doubt it's based on market location... It's simply based on newer models being able to charge the battery inside the camera body which obviates the need to include a separate charger, which can be a little more flexible (or not, depending on usage case) and probably saves the manufacturer some money anyway...

We ARE talking about the same cables btw. Not sure why you're trying to defend Panasonic. Frankly I give them credit for adding in-body charging as it's useful, but they can definitely do us one better and use a standard cable.

Cables haven't really changed at all though, least not recently (I think back around the time of the third ZS travel zoom they changed the cables buy that was years ago). The PC cable from an LX7, FZ200, or any other semi-recent Panasonic will easily power/charge the LF1 (and ZS30, etc). It's USB on one end, not standard on the other tho (despite looking like micro USB).

Now if the EU gets uppity they could demand all cameras have to use micro USB cables like they did for phones... Although good old Apple still got around it by including a standard USB cable + 20-pin/lightning adapter.

Actually, I take that back (on my previous post) I guess the Monoprice one might work and they just have some really old models listed under the compatibility details (Panasonic might've stricken them all to keep their more up-to-date list manageable)... The Bestbatt list (linked below) for their own cable seems to fall somewhere in between and actually has models found on both of those other lists.

This is what I'm getting at tho, Panasonic's made this way more confusing than it has to be. Even if you ignore the fact that it's a special cable, they could at least name the connector or pin configuration something short and sensible (like Nikon does) so that's easy to identify. Instead they have all these cable model numbers that just add to the nonsense, I guess they might correspond to length or production run or who knows what...

Bestbatt lists like three or four Panasonic generated model numbers for the cable, none matches the one in the LF1 manual... Apparently Monoprice just gave up on that long ago and they describe it simply as Mini B 8-pin, even tough it's clearly not mini A nor B (if anything it's micro sized, smaller actually) and it doesn't even have 8 pins! lol I count 5 pins on my LF1's cable,with some blank space (enough for 7 total, maybe).

I guess it's possible other cameras use a different set of pins or maybe the extra possible pins are only used by the AV cable; or it could mean that this exact pin count/config on the LF1's cable signals the camera for a specific charge current/speed (like the two bridged center data pins signal 1A charging for most Android phones, whether bridged on the cable or charger). Again tho, who knows! Thanks Panasonic...

I think I'm ordering the retractable one off B&H, I'll post back how many actual pins I see on the thing and whether I notice any difference in charging speed between it and the one that comes with the LF1 itself (which has the two outer-most pins and then 3 clumped to one side). I assume it's never changed so I imagine it'll be identical to all the other ones, unless Panasonic has some data only cables and some data + power cable, ugh...

Like I've said, it's a pretty common practice now and hardly exclusive to the LF1 or Panasonic... I doubt the rest of the electronics are in any real danger if the camera's usually turned off while charging. Do you have the same worry about your phone's battery? Not sure why it would be a deal breaker tho, unless it's just the principle of the matter. You can always buy the extra external charger if you prefer, but giving people both options is certainly preferable IMO.

They aren't taking away the option to charge the battery outside, at least not until some manufacturer comes up with a (potentially bogus) reason to seal the battery in, as happened with smartphones... Pretty unlikely for any camera with decent optics, tough possibly something they should actually consider with the sports/underwater models to eliminate one more point of failure. (I'd imagine it's actually the biggest point of failure with those)

The connector looks like the UC-E6 shown here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Connector_types

By now, I have a bunch of them on my shelf - since they've been used by Panasonic since at least 2007.

They look like they have room for 8 wires, even though the standard A and standard B connectors have only 4 wires.

Sherm

Wow I am surprised at how many people are complaining about this. Some cameras and other electronic devices like Apple products have proprietary plugs that are expensive. My camcorder has a power plug that isn't even a USB port and has its own power supply. I ended up buying an after market charger for $10 so I can charge the battery while using the backup battery. Solved that issue. I would do the same for the LF1 if I were to purchase one...forgetabout the USB cable. LOL

sherman_levine wrote:

The connector looks like the UC-E6 shown here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Connector_types

By now, I have a bunch of them on my shelf - since they've been used by Panasonic since at least 2007.

They look like they have room for 8 wires, even though the standard A and standard B connectors have only 4 wires.

Sherm

This may be useful ( based on a Google search for UC-E6 pinout )

http://pinoutsguide.com/DigitalCameras/micro_usb_8pin_camera_pinout.shtml

It appears that there are several standards, as you can see from the various links here. Nikon, in particular, seems to be different from the rest.

http://pinouts.ru/connector/8_pin_UC-E6_like-mini-usb_proprietary_connector.shtml

Sherm

Wow!  9 different devices!  Well that makes sense.  All of my cameras except for my video camera came with a charger so I have no choice and the battery charger is smaller than the power supply that came with the video camera so I carry chargers.

Barry Margolius wrote:

. . . I travel a lot, and I carry a lot of rechargeable electronic devices (9 at last count). I really don't want to take 9 separate chargers and 9 separate spare batteries with me when I travel, so I have tried to move toward using standard USB chargeable devices: my theoretical goal would be 1 charger and two cables. I know I can never reach this goal, but I aim for it. So for me, the separate charger and extra battery approach just doesn't work well.

-barry

You don't need to carry so many "chargers" -- in this case you can bring just the Panasonic cable and any universal USB plug . . . that is the plug that goes into the wall socket and that has a female USB outlet on the other end.  These USB plugs have different Amperage ratings, but I believe you want the one that delivers the highest number of milli-amps . . . since the device (LF1, etc.) or charger will only accept the amperage that it needs.  (Why do I have a feeling that this comment will bring posts contradicting me?)

MichaelKz wrote:

Barry Margolius wrote:

. . . I travel a lot, and I carry a lot of rechargeable electronic devices (9 at last count). I really don't want to take 9 separate chargers and 9 separate spare batteries with me when I travel, so I have tried to move toward using standard USB chargeable devices: my theoretical goal would be 1 charger and two cables. I know I can never reach this goal, but I aim for it. So for me, the separate charger and extra battery approach just doesn't work well.

-barry

You don't need to carry so many "chargers" -- in this case you can bring just the Panasonic cable and any universal USB plug . . . that is the plug that goes into the wall socket and that has a female USB outlet on the other end. These USB plugs have different Amperage ratings, but I believe you want the one that delivers the highest number of milli-amps . . . since the device (LF1, etc.) or charger will only accept the amperage that it needs. (Why do I have a feeling that this comment will bring posts contradicting me?)

He was referring to the model where each camera has two batteries and an external charger specific to the battery.  I actually prefer that one because I can carry a spare battery in case the one in the camera doesn't make it through the day.

Even if each camera charges via USB, then you'd like to be able to charge them all at once (so one USB port per camera is needed)

Sherm

sherman_levine wrote:

. . . Even if each camera charges via USB, then you'd like to be able to charge them all at once (so one USB port per camera is needed)

Sherm

True enough.  Travel raises many challenges, and this is certainly one of them.