Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

Started Jul 3, 2013 | Questions
frobertv Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

Hi, I have been wanting to buy myself a Ricoh GR but its not available here in the Netherlands. At the moment I see the X-M1 being advertised with the 18-55 zoom. It should be available before the Ricoh in the Netherlands.

I am an architect and would love the 28 (eq) mm on my trips abroad and generaly for work. But for family photos the Fuji with its zoom 28-80 (eq) would be a better choice.

I am wondering if the Fuji with the zoom could be more or less as good at 28 mm as the Ricoh GR. The price difference between the Ricoh and the Fuji X-M incl. 18-55 is about 10 to 15%. If the IQ of the Fuji is not too far off from the Ricoh I think I would be happier with the zoom.

IQ is very important. Pocketable is not an issue as much.  At the end of the day I am more concerned with IQ than size.

Anyone here who has been using the Fuji X system with the 18-55 as well as the Ricoh GR. Small chance I think but there might be a few who could help me out with some advise.

Francois

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Fujifilm X-M1
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chris24net Regular Member • Posts: 294
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

I own both the X-E1 and the GR.  I'd go with the Fuji. If you're not concerned with size/pocketability, then the zoom will be a much more practical camera for everyday use and family pix.  And the 18-55 is really good at 18.  Better than the Fuji 18mm f2.0 actually other than speed and size.  IQ will match or beat the GR, plus you have a lot more flexibility.  The GR is great, but it's a somewhat specialized camera.

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jerrysdean43 Contributing Member • Posts: 830
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

I have a Fuji X10 and have printed very nice 11 x 14 images.  I would IMO say that the IQ of the X-m1 would probably not disappoint you.

X10 images

Ray Sachs
Ray Sachs Forum Pro • Posts: 10,580
Apples and Oranges

Such totally different cameras its almost hard to compare. Yes, the 18mm end of the Fuji 18-55 is probably very very close to as good as the GR lens and they're the same speed at f2.8. And the Fuji sensor is very very good, but its a very different sensor with its X-Trans array and Fuji seems to handle NR differently too. In my experience, Fuji tends to inflate its ISO numbers somewhere close to a full stop (I've seen this refuted technically but in my shooting, it seems real enough), so I'd argue the Ricoh is a bit better in low light. Both are great, but different. But the issue of size and operating characteristics (VERY different control setups) make this an apple to oranges comparison. If size is really no issue for you and you're OK with the control setup of the Fuji (I am for some types of shooting more than others), then the Fuji sounds like the better choice if you're looking for versatility. But size and controls are big differences here, so make sure that's really what you want.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Senior Member • Posts: 2,679
Family camera = wife decides.

frobertv wrote:

Hi, I have been wanting to buy myself a Ricoh GR but its not available here in the Netherlands. At the moment I see the X-M1 being advertised with the 18-55 zoom. It should be available before the Ricoh in the Netherlands.

I am an architect and would love the 28 (eq) mm on my trips abroad and generaly for work. But for family photos the Fuji with its zoom 28-80 (eq) would be a better choice.

So far I have't read any insightful comment to your post in this thread — just boyish technobabble based on theoretical specs.

Let me take it from a more relevant angle:

If you're serious about your family ties, let your spouse choose a camera for family snapshots — one she is comfortable with too. Give her options, let her try them all. Let her decide.

But a toy for a boy, that choose yourself. And yes, having two cameras is good for your family life, and your personal satisfaction too.

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Zvonimir Tosic
“A portrait is not made in the camera, but on either side of it.”
— Edward Steichen

OP frobertv Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Family camera = wife decides.

Hi Tosic,

your right about a camera for my wife and one for me. But that just a basic lesson in life I already got covered many so many years ago.

I am hoping to get advise from people with handson experience with both cameras.

So those replies are very helpfull to me, and I am hoping to see more. But I must say the first reply already gives me a lot of info on the subject.

Francois

OP frobertv Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Apples and Oranges

Yes, its comparing very different cameras. But I have found myself choosing between very different systems when it comes to photography often. Unless you can afford many different cameras I see a lot of people trying to find direction looking at different cameras and different kinds of photography.

But tx for your reply that is informative as well.

Francois

OP frobertv Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

great photos. Tx. The x10 is a great camera as well. Although I have found that photos taken on a sunny day look good with almost all recent cameras.

OP frobertv Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

Tx, clear. This is what I was looking for.

But the GR seems to have exceptional IQ. Comparable with the best Leica's (MingThein). That could be worth it. But I understand from your reply that the Fuji X would not be all that different if not the same.

If thats so I think my needs are indeed better served with the Fuji X-M. Anyhow, I am afraid the Ricoh might never hit the market here in Holland. I hardly even see the Nikon A here in the (web)shops.

VladimirV Senior Member • Posts: 2,659
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

frobertv wrote:

If thats so I think my needs are indeed better served with the Fuji X-M. Anyhow, I am afraid the Ricoh might never hit the market here in Holland. I hardly even see the Nikon A here in the (web)shops.

You could order the GR from Germany as an alternative.

The Fuji will be the more versatile camera and you can chage lenses if needed so if size is not an issue and you want it as your main camera it will be the better buy. The GR, great as it might be, is more limited and it's main advantage over the Fuji is the size.

chris24net Regular Member • Posts: 294
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?
1

frobertv wrote:

Tx, clear. This is what I was looking for.

But the GR seems to have exceptional IQ. Comparable with the best Leica's (MingThein). That could be worth it. But I understand from your reply that the Fuji X would not be all that different if not the same.

If thats so I think my needs are indeed better served with the Fuji X-M. Anyhow, I am afraid the Ricoh might never hit the market here in Holland. I hardly even see the Nikon A here in the (web)shops.

Yes, the GR has great image quality, but so does the Fuji. All of my India gallery was shot with the Fuji, mostly with the 18-55. (And pretty much all the 2x3 ratio images in my China gallery.)

http://www.chris-sorensen.com/india

I haven't shot nearly as much with the GR as the Fuji since I just recently got the GR, but I don't think the Fuji sacrifices any quality to the GR. Ray thinks the Ricoh might be a bit better and he has more experience with the GR, so he may be right. But the difference, if any, is probably so minimal that other factors like focal length flexibility, controls, etc. are more important.

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jerrysdean43 Contributing Member • Posts: 830
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

A couple of non sunny shots.

aleksanderpolo
aleksanderpolo Regular Member • Posts: 433
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?
1

You might want to check the distortion for both the GR and 18-55 if you are an architect (assuming you are naturally attracted to building :-))

The lens in GR is almost free of distortion and vignetting, but the 18-55 has distortion on both the wide and tele end (normal for zoom).

Quote from photozone:

"The Fujinon shows a rather massive amount of barrel distortion at the short end (4.6%) so it is a bit under-designed here. Zooming in, the distortion decreases to a slight barrel distortion level at 23mm and a slight pincushion distortion at longer focal lengths."

Also note that due to demosaicing a 6x6 pattern and a longer sampling distance in X-trans vs 2x2 pattern in Bayer, the x-trans will normally have lower color resolution (about 50% of Bayer) and color noise. This will not reflected in normal resolution chart as they are made to resolve black and white lines, but you read about all sorts of water coloring effect in foilage, etc, due to this.

Bottom line: If you need a zoom, there are better camera and lens out there than Fuji, I would pick OMD or NEX over Fuji. If you need size and don't mind prime, GR and A, or even Sigma DPxM would be better choices.

P.S. Not my pics, but these are pretty impressive ones taken by another member using a GR:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nico1974/sets/72157622927736146/with/9172255449/

OP frobertv Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

Tx, the link you sent showes great photos but not taken with the GR. But I took a search on flickr and saw amazing things with the GR.

Distortion, the lens on the GR actually distorts a lot as well but its corrected in-camera. The same for the Fuji. So the actual distortion of the lens is not so important anymore since off recently when they began to do in-camera distortion-corrections in raw format as well.

But its a good point that needs some looking into. I don't know how well the 18-55 is corrected compared to the GR.

Purely as an architect I would get the GR. No doubt. I know the Fuji X mount has a incredibly good wide angle prime though at extra costs.

Francois

OP frobertv Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

TX Chris,

those are beautiful photos. But they would still if taken with a phone actaully.

Just a comment on your site. I am working here on a 30" screen so maybe that just it, but I could hardly take a good look at your photos. The scroll function works but not really smooth. I reduced the size of the window a lot and it did improve a little.

But considering what you have to show I would advise you to look for a better way of displaying your work on the web. By connecting all the images in a row the seperate compositions become less clear. The way it is now I would not be staying at your site for long although the images themselves are no reason to leave.

Francois

photoreddi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,973
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

frobertv wrote:

TX Chris,

those are beautiful photos. But they would still if taken with a phone actaully.

Well, in Chris's hands I imagine that if the photos were shot with a phone camera they would still be exceptional. But at about 2mp per photo (as presented) if his photos were shot with a decent DSLR, mirrorless camera or even a GR and then shown in full resolution in very large prints or on very high res. monitors, the photos would be much more impressive than phone cam. photos.

.

Just a comment on your site. I am working here on a 30" screen so maybe that just it, but I could hardly take a good look at your photos. The scroll function works but not really smooth. I reduced the size of the window a lot and it did improve a little.

But considering what you have to show I would advise you to look for a better way of displaying your work on the web. By connecting all the images in a row the seperate compositions become less clear. The way it is now I would not be staying at your site for long although the images themselves are no reason to leave.

I don't think that it's the size of your screen that's presenting the problem. It seems that photo host/server isn't particular fast and it takes a while for the photos to be transferred, and while they're being transferred they don't appear in their final, sequential left-to-right order, so they seem to hop around almost randomly. But after they've finally loaded, you can scroll left or right from image to image very quickly. It may not be ideal, but it is in my opinion vastly superior to the new flickr that more often than not loads a seemingly unending wall of photos, so I'll often take a pass on a link to photos if I see that it's to flickr.

Harold66
Harold66 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,120
Re: Family camera = wife decides.
2

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

If you're serious about your family ties, let your spouse choose a camera for family snapshots — one she is comfortable with too. Give her options, let her try them all. Let her decide.

and that is supposed to be " imsightful" comment ?  you ve got to be kidding  

Harold

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photoreddi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,973
Impressive...
1

chris24net wrote:

frobertv wrote:

Tx, clear. This is what I was looking for.

But the GR seems to have exceptional IQ. Comparable with the best Leica's (MingThein). That could be worth it. But I understand from your reply that the Fuji X would not be all that different if not the same.

If thats so I think my needs are indeed better served with the Fuji X-M. Anyhow, I am afraid the Ricoh might never hit the market here in Holland. I hardly even see the Nikon A here in the (web)shops.

Yes, the GR has great image quality, but so does the Fuji. All of my India gallery was shot with the Fuji, mostly with the 18-55. (And pretty much all the 2x3 ratio images in my China gallery.)

http://www.chris-sorensen.com/india

I originally skipped your link but for some reason returned to it, fortunately. I've only thus far viewed your India and China galleries but it's clear that you're an exceptionally good photographer. The last time I saw such a high proportion of outstanding non-landscape/wildlife photos was a number of years ago while looking through Steve McCurry's "Portraits", the one with the most recognizable cover photo, ever.

Joel Stern
Joel Stern Forum Pro • Posts: 10,925
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

I tried the XE with the zoom.  The camera was fine the zoom was very big.  Sent it back and noe have an X100s and a GR as well as  a GRD lV.  I love ricoh cameras more than any others.

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Jeff Tokayer Veteran Member • Posts: 6,278
Re: Fuji X-m1 /18-55 or Ricoh GR ?

frobertv wrote:

Tx, the link you sent showes great photos but not taken with the GR. But I took a search on flickr and saw amazing things with the GR.

The last 8 images in that series were taken with the GR.

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