Warning - Nikon REFUSES to replace equipment they cannot fix, even if under warranty.

Started Jun 12, 2013 | Discussions
Breidablick Regular Member • Posts: 379
Re: Unfortunate

MikeInIndy wrote:

wlad wrote:

Do you really have to deal with Nikon USA in the US ??

Here in Europe, we don't care what Nikon's or any other manufacturer's policies are - when something is broken, we go to the merchant that sold us the product. He has 2 shots at fixing it (ie having it fixed by the importer), after that it's money back. We don't deal with any distributors, importers or authorized service centers - it's the merchant's job. During the 2 years warranty period that is mandatory in Europe. Any warranty beyond those 2 years is optional, so it may require dealing with authorized service centers etc.

Yet people complain about why goods are so much more expensive there...

Well, good customer service/regulations in EU has nothing to do with higher prices on electronics - its about different taxes and duties than in US.

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MikeInIndy Senior Member • Posts: 1,077
Re: Unfortunate
1

Breidablick wrote:

Well, good customer service/regulations in EU has nothing to do with higher prices on electronics - its about different taxes and duties than in US.

Doubling the typical warranty and forcing merchants to deal with (and replace if they can't repair pretty quickly) goods "has nothing to do with higher prices"?  Really?  I believe the main tax (VAT) is figured AFTER the already much higher MSRPs they pay.  And it makes much more sense why that is seeing what kinds of requirements there are to back a product there.  And I'm not saying it's a bad thing, as much junk as gets sold everywhere these days I'd rather pay more for products that actually work.

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-Mike

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toomanycanons Forum Pro • Posts: 12,291
Re: D5100
1

At one point I'd never had a problem with a camera. Then I bought a Sony NEX3. It would not take a sharp pic. I had Nikon bodies at the time that worked great, why wouldn't this NEX? Within two weeks of owning it I sent it to Sony with a complete description of the "problem" 10 days passed, it got back to me with no mention whatsoever in the box of what they looked at or found or fixed. I'm convinced they just turned it on and off and mailed it back to me. "Works great" is what they "found".

I sent it back to the online retailer for a refund. That was what I should have done in the first place. I learned my lesson. Buy from a store that has a "no questions asked" return policy, test the carp out of a new camera within the first two weeks, any problems just return it for a replacement or refund. Don't start imagening problems, that's not nice to the retailer. Don't send it back to the manufacturer for them to look at.

I still haven't had any problems with any Nikon I've owned but I did buy an Olympus E-PM1 a few months ago. It didn't work at all, would not focus, unbelievable right out of the box! I called the etailer, they said "you could send it to Olympus" and I said no freakin' way. I sent it back to the store for a full refund (no questions asked). I've learned my lesson.

wlad Senior Member • Posts: 1,522
Re: Unfortunate

MikeInIndy wrote:

Breidablick wrote:

Well, good customer service/regulations in EU has nothing to do with higher prices on electronics - its about different taxes and duties than in US.

Doubling the typical warranty and forcing merchants to deal with (and replace if they can't repair pretty quickly) goods "has nothing to do with higher prices"? Really? I believe the main tax (VAT) is figured AFTER the already much higher MSRPs they pay. And it makes much more sense why that is seeing what kinds of requirements there are to back a product there. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing, as much junk as gets sold everywhere these days I'd rather pay more for products that actually work.

VAT is usually around 20% here in Europe.

MSRP is a useless information on the official product's site. Real prices are a lot lower, and VAT is calculated from whatever price a merchant comes up with.

 wlad's gear list:wlad's gear list
Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2,8/25 Sony RX100 III Nikon D750 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Voigtlander 40mm F2 Ultron SL II +1 more
Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 24,904
Depends
1

wlad wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

wlad wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

Juggernaut122 wrote:

They finally agreed that since they cannot repair it that they would replace the equipment.

That is normal policy with NikonUSA. Three tries then replace. They do not publish this policy, and will not make it public.

Do you really have to deal with Nikon USA in the US ??

Yes. As explained to me...In the USA they are an independent subsidiary in direct competition with grey market. For that reason Nikon no longer supplies parts to third party vendors/service centers. Biggest problem for Nikon USA was that the newer cameras require a big money outlay to get the software and hardware to service the current gen bodies. 3rd party service folks often did not spend the cash (understandable) to get the gear from Nikon and without it were bricking bodies that NikonUSA was forced to fix under warranty and in court order. So they cut out the 3rd party service folks to "fix" the issue and Nikon Japan supported it. Right or Wrong

Wasn't talking about 3rd party vs official authorized service center, rather merchant vs Nikon US.

Same thing as only Nikon US will be doing the service or authorizing return and such. Some venders will re[place from there own stock then re-sell it in some form or deal with Nikon USA. They have a different "relationship" regard return policy though (authorized vendor to Nikon)

Won't the merchant take the broken camera and send it to Nikon US for repair ? Do you have to do it yourself, and be bound by whatever policies they come up with ?

It really depend on the Vendor. For example, Best Buy used to simply act as a middle man between Nikon USA. Some local brick and motors places work a bit different.

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Breidablick Regular Member • Posts: 379
Re: Unfortunate

wlad wrote:

MikeInIndy wrote:

Breidablick wrote:

Well, good customer service/regulations in EU has nothing to do with higher prices on electronics - its about different taxes and duties than in US.

Doubling the typical warranty and forcing merchants to deal with (and replace if they can't repair pretty quickly) goods "has nothing to do with higher prices"? Really? I believe the main tax (VAT) is figured AFTER the already much higher MSRPs they pay. And it makes much more sense why that is seeing what kinds of requirements there are to back a product there. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing, as much junk as gets sold everywhere these days I'd rather pay more for products that actually work.

VAT is usually around 20% here in Europe.

MSRP is a useless information on the official product's site. Real prices are a lot lower, and VAT is calculated from whatever price a merchant comes up with.

Thanks for the clarification Wlad. Mike, just out of curiosity: I checked the current best deal for the D7100 with the kit lens over here (Sweden), took the VAT away (25%) and exchanged it into US currency: $963. What will you end up with if you add US VAT? I am not trying to make a point here, I am just curious.

 Breidablick's gear list:Breidablick's gear list
Ricoh GR Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24mm f/4 DX II +6 more
MikeInIndy Senior Member • Posts: 1,077
Re: Unfortunate
1

Breidablick wrote:

Thanks for the clarification Wlad. Mike, just out of curiosity: I checked the current best deal for the D7100 with the kit lens over here (Sweden), took the VAT away (25%) and exchanged it into US currency: $963. What will you end up with if you add US VAT? I am not trying to make a point here, I am just curious.

Something's not adding up, a D7100 kit here is 1496.95 plus local sales tax, in my case that would be around 7% more?

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-Mike

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lock Veteran Member • Posts: 6,202
Price in Sweden.

Are you saying you pay a bit over €900?

We are still not under 1000 here (although one shop offers a na extra original nikon battery, making the price aroud €980).

lock

Breidablick Regular Member • Posts: 379
Re: Price in Sweden.

lock wrote:

Are you saying you pay a bit over €900?

We are still not under 1000 here (although one shop offers a na extra original nikon battery, making the price aroud €980).

lock

Sorry, I was completely wrong - I checked the price without lens (I bought only the camera house myself). The correct price in US dollars with kit lens, without Swedish VAT should be $1287... So I guess there cost of the camera still is quite a bit more than in the US?

 Breidablick's gear list:Breidablick's gear list
Ricoh GR Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24mm f/4 DX II +6 more
wlad Senior Member • Posts: 1,522
Re: Unfortunate

Breidablick wrote:

wlad wrote:

MikeInIndy wrote:

Breidablick wrote:

Well, good customer service/regulations in EU has nothing to do with higher prices on electronics - its about different taxes and duties than in US.

Doubling the typical warranty and forcing merchants to deal with (and replace if they can't repair pretty quickly) goods "has nothing to do with higher prices"? Really? I believe the main tax (VAT) is figured AFTER the already much higher MSRPs they pay. And it makes much more sense why that is seeing what kinds of requirements there are to back a product there. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing, as much junk as gets sold everywhere these days I'd rather pay more for products that actually work.

VAT is usually around 20% here in Europe.

MSRP is a useless information on the official product's site. Real prices are a lot lower, and VAT is calculated from whatever price a merchant comes up with.

Thanks for the clarification Wlad. Mike, just out of curiosity: I checked the current best deal for the D7100 with the kit lens over here (Sweden), took the VAT away (25%) and exchanged it into US currency: $963. What will you end up with if you add US VAT? I am not trying to make a point here, I am just curious.

The european prices include the VAT unless specified - US prices usually don't include any sales tax.

I found the D7100 body only for 9049 SEK here:

http://www.pricerunner.se/pl/29-2874635/Digitalkameror/Nikon-D7100-priser

If you remove the 25% VAT (by dividing the merchant's price by 1.25), you get 7239 SEK, which is roughly $1100.

Amazon US sells the D7100 body for $1197 without VAT (or sales tax). But since most of the people do not pay any VAT when shopping online in the US, it's the VAT that makes most of the difference when comparing US vs EU prices.

 wlad's gear list:wlad's gear list
Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2,8/25 Sony RX100 III Nikon D750 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Voigtlander 40mm F2 Ultron SL II +1 more
MikeInIndy Senior Member • Posts: 1,077
Re: Unfortunate

wlad wrote:

The european prices include the VAT unless specified - US prices usually don't include any sales tax.

I found the D7100 body only for 9049 SEK here:

http://www.pricerunner.se/pl/29-2874635/Digitalkameror/Nikon-D7100-priser

If you remove the 25% VAT (by dividing the merchant's price by 1.25), you get 7239 SEK, which is roughly $1100.

Amazon US sells the D7100 body for $1197 without VAT (or sales tax). But since most of the people do not pay any VAT when shopping online in the US, it's the VAT that makes most of the difference when comparing US vs EU prices.

Except that the VAT offsets costs that are built into the price of the goods in the US.  In the US we pay a small sales tax that is given in full to the government, some of your VAT money is kept by the merchant to offset taxes etc paid on the goods to get them to the point of sale.  Also while many in the US do not pay tax online in MOST states by law they should be.  Typical tax rates here are around 7% for sales tax.  So in the example case the final cost is 1177 vs 1375.  I don't have a good way to quantify the prices with no taxes for both sides of the pond, but just subtracting the VAT and saying that's the sole difference in the price isn't really accurate I don't think.

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-Mike

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szal Regular Member • Posts: 131
Re: Unfortunate

MikeInIndy wrote:

I believe the main tax (VAT) is figured AFTER the already much higher MSRPs they pay.

You believe wrong. VAT is already included in the price for the consumer. So to make prices comparable, you would have to deduce the country of sale’s VAT rate from the consumer price.

And yes, the MSRP is a manufacturer recommendation and thus useless; street prices are usually noticeably to substantially lower from day 1.

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twamers Senior Member • Posts: 1,276
Re: Unfortunate

UK price for D7100 + 18-105 kit is £1,020 (includes vat) from Amazon UK at the moment. Many other retailers are in similar area.

And yes when we buy here and the item fails during warranty it goes back to the merchant. Generally the merchant must be given a chance to repair - a camera shop would therefore return to Nikon in the uk for a repair. If they can't repair you get your money back or a replacement from the merchant. The merchant reclaims their money from the distributor (Nikon) by returning the faulty goods to them. Basically covered in the uk by Sale of Good Act - goods must be of merchantable quality when sold.

Generally this works well - I don't know whether it really adds cost or not but there is more protection if things go wrong. Hope the OP can get some satisfaction soon.

Josh152 Senior Member • Posts: 2,018
Re: Warning - Nikon REFUSES to replace equipment they cannot fix, even if under warranty.

magillo wrote:

If your camera front focuses with all your lenses why you just not fix this yourself.

Adjusting consistent "bad" front focus (or back focus) is like sensor cleaning. You can ship to Nikon or do it yourself, although this is your risk to take if you mess something up.

If I remember correctly you just need 2 mm hex key, steady hand and couple tries. It would take less time then packing camera and sending back to Nikon.

My 5100 also front focused and it took me maybe half hour (it may take you at first a few tries as after each screw adjustment you may have to retest focus).

Screw which adjusts front/back focus is inside mirror box (one close to sensor on the right side).

Nikon has already tried to repair the camera three times and failed. Don't you think if it was as simple as adjusting a screw they would have been successful?

MikeInIndy Senior Member • Posts: 1,077
Re: Unfortunate

szal wrote:

MikeInIndy wrote:

I believe the main tax (VAT) is figured AFTER the already much higher MSRPs they pay.

You believe wrong. VAT is already included in the price for the consumer. So to make prices comparable, you would have to deduce the country of sale’s VAT rate from the consumer price.

And yes, the MSRP is a manufacturer recommendation and thus useless; street prices are usually noticeably to substantially lower from day 1.

While I concede the VAT may be included in the price, I do not concede that it can be deducted from the price to make them comparable as I stated in my other post.  Unless you can show me that what I'm reading about the VAT being partially given to the merchant to offset their costs in taxes prior to the sale etc, you can't just subtract those costs when they exist and are part of the US market price.  Our sales tax is not the same as your VAT from what I've just read on the subject, the sales tax here goes entirely to the government.  Maybe "street prices" are much lower in Europe, here in the US Nikon products above a certain "level" rarely drop below their MSRP from reputable dealers.  The bottom line point is you guys get a great consumer protection, but to think that protection is somehow free is laughable.

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-Mike

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szal Regular Member • Posts: 131
Re: Unfortunate

MikeInIndy wrote:

Unless you can show me that what I'm reading about the VAT being partially given to the merchant to offset their costs in taxes prior to the sale etc, you can't just subtract those costs when they exist and are part of the US market price.

No idea where you’re getting that from. In Germany at least, the merchant does not get to keep any of the VAT he collects for the government. Yes, it is possible to offset the VAT payable to the financial authority with undisputed receivables from the financial authority, but that does not constitute an open or hidden subsidy, as you want to portray it.

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twamers Senior Member • Posts: 1,276
Re: Unfortunate

In the UK vat is included on the price quoted to the customer always providing the business is liable to VAT based on its turnover - around £79,000 per annum. The vat element of the sale price is paid to the tax authorities (usually a quarterly return to HMRC) and is normally termed output tax. Where the business buys in items that they are charged vat on as well by other business suppliers this is termed input tax and can be reclaimed back from the tax authority.

disintegrating edge
disintegrating edge Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: Warning - Nikon REFUSES to replace equipment they cannot fix, even if under warranty.

I have had many Nikon cameras and lenses over the years and some Canon as well. The only camera I ever had an issue with was the Nikon D7000. It had a focusing problem similar to what you are describing. I sent it to Nikon 3 times also and they never fixed it. The replaced parts on the second and third time, or at least said they did. It was always returned preforming EXACTLY the same as when I sent it in. They told me that the camera was "fine" and basically insinuated that it was user error. I finally gave up and sold it. It was not that I was trying to dump in on someone else. I thought maybe it was simply my problem if Nikon said they tested it and it was preforming as it should. It was after this that I shot Canon for the last bit of time. However the 5D series are just too heavy for me. I have just purchased the Nikon 5200 (which I know shares the same AF as the 7000 that I had so many problems with.) I should get my kit tomorrow. I guess that will finally settle it once and for all in my mind if it was me or the camera.
I hope that you are able to resolve your issues. Good luck!

cerberusjf Regular Member • Posts: 350
Re: Unfortunate
1

Mako2011 wrote:

Juggernaut122 wrote:

They finally agreed that since they cannot repair it that they would replace the equipment.

That is normal policy with NikonUSA. Three tries then replace. They do not publish this policy, and will not make it public.

Do you know why they do this? It is a pity they don't replace it the first time if they are not able to fix it properly.

When I asked them to send me a confirmation email that they were going to replace the equipment, they refused to, and told me that they would just try to repair it again.

You should have taken the replacement vs demand in writing prior to receiving. They will now wait before replacing. They can be sticklers about that. And will most likely drag it out now with the result being the same, you get a replacement, but longer than you would have liked.

Nikon are shooting themselves in the foot, if this is how they behave. They should be doing everything to resolve the problem as fast as possible, not the reverse. A customer does not owe Nikon any favours. It reflects very badly on Nikon and prosective customers should be warned about their poor service and attitude. In all the "should I get Canon or Nikon" threads I've seen, I don't think I've seen customer service commented on. And when you need it, it is very important, much more than how a camera feels in the hand imho.

Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 24,904
Re: Unfortunate

cerberusjf wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

Juggernaut122 wrote:

They finally agreed that since they cannot repair it that they would replace the equipment.

That is normal policy with NikonUSA. Three tries then replace. They do not publish this policy, and will not make it public.

Do you know why they do this? It is a pity they don't replace it the first time if they are not able to fix it properly.

Because of cost. The profit margin on cameras is very small

When I asked them to send me a confirmation email that they were going to replace the equipment, they refused to, and told me that they would just try to repair it again.

You should have taken the replacement vs demand in writing prior to receiving. They will now wait before replacing. They can be sticklers about that. And will most likely drag it out now with the result being the same, you get a replacement, but longer than you would have liked.

Nikon are shooting themselves in the foot, if this is how they behave. They should be doing everything to resolve the problem as fast as possible, not the reverse. A customer does not owe Nikon any favours. It reflects very badly on Nikon and prosective customers should be warned about their poor service and attitude. In all the "should I get Canon or Nikon" threads I've seen, I don't think I've seen customer service commented on. And when you need it, it is very important, much more than how a camera feels in the hand imho.

Certainly and understandable sentiment.

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