Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price

Started Jun 7, 2013 | Discussions
Cimarron Regular Member • Posts: 224
Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
22

I just noticed today that you can get the latest Sony DSLT, the A58, with kit lens and 75-300mm zoom at B&H for $596.  Or you can get the very highly rated Pentax K-30 with kit lens for only $538.

By comparison, the Lumix G6 with kit lens is $750, and the previous-generation G5 is $599 for the kit.  And the OM-D and GH3 are still around $1,300 with the kit lens.

It's the same story with lenses.  There are all kinds of inexpensive APS-C lenses that are pretty high quality.  But with M43, you pay a premium for high image quality (with the exception of the Sigmas).

Anyway, I think high prices are one of the main reasons M43 hasn't gained much traction against DSLRs.  If I'm a consumer who wants the best image quality at the lowest price, I'm grabbing that Sony deal and passing on the high-priced new M43 cameras.

I wonder if prices will moderate as the technology matures? DSLR prices sure have...

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Colin Franks
Colin Franks Senior Member • Posts: 1,575
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
7

I wonder if the higher price is due to two factors:

1) The fact that the DSLRs are produced in higher numbers.

2) The smaller & lighter package of M4/3 is a desired thing, and therefore they're applying a fee for that value.

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grumpyolderman Senior Member • Posts: 1,085
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
2

I think you are right there, and the size advantage can only carry so far, if you can not put it in your pocket, you need a bag, DSLR or m43....the new canon seems pretty much the same size as the GH3, sure lenses can be different sizes.

I guess it needs more numbers before m43 can really go down in price significantly. But I can not see this happening as Oly and Pana are not making any money with the system. I spread the word all the time, how good m43 really is, as the marketing of Canikon is soooo much more massive!

JL

agentul Contributing Member • Posts: 619
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
3

Colin Franks wrote:

2) The smaller & lighter package of M4/3 is a desired thing, and therefore they're applying a fee for that value.

the iphone is a "desired" item. it's really expensive, but many people have one. my guess is that the m4/3 system is expensive because a lot of r&d has to still go into it. making small things is harder than making big things (up to a point), and creating things from scratch is harder than just improving on old designs.

Digital Dick Senior Member • Posts: 1,818
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
6

and the Nikon D800 with kit lens is only $2800.

Perhaps it's not fair to compare the top of the line against an entry level model.

Dick

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OP Cimarron Regular Member • Posts: 224
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
3

Digital Dick wrote:

and the Nikon D800 with kit lens is only $2800.

Perhaps it's not fair to compare the top of the line against an entry level model.

Dick

No, it's not.

But my point is that, for a consumer who wants an interchangeable lens camera with a viewfinder and the latest technology, the lowest-price M43 option is the G6 at $750 -- compared to the Sony A58 with 18-55 and 75-300 lenses for $596.  Not to mention the plethora of inexpensive, high-quality lenses.

Don't get me wrong: I'm all-in on M43. I just think M43 prices may be hurting its market acceptance.

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pcake Contributing Member • Posts: 692
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price

when a company makes less of something, it usually costs more to defray costs of development and tooling,. that being said, the G6 is so new it's not even released yet.  the GX1 is no slouch, and you can get it for $199, just like the E-PM1.  canons and pentax dslrs - same thing.  new = more expensive.

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RicksAstro
RicksAstro Veteran Member • Posts: 3,834
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
2

I agree with you.    You could get a D600 with 24-85 VR and 70-200 f4 last winter for about the same price as the GH3 and 12-35 and 35-100.   I did the comparison with those exact lenses and, as expected, the Nikon had slightly better IQ with the 24-85 than the 12-35 and simply steller IQ with the 70-200, although the 35-100 was no slouch.    But I hated the large size and the focus calibration issues and the dust/oil issues.  So I decided small tradeoff in IQ was worth it, and it was.

With Fuji's awesome package deals, there have been several posting about swapping out of m43 (myself included).   When you can get an XE1 with the stellar 18-55 2.8-4 for less than the 12-35 lens alone, it's hard to ignore.  These systems are quite different, with the fuji being less versatile, but also more enjoyable to use.   So far I've not regretted the change.

The EP5 was what really showed me that price was going in the wrong direction.

-- hide signature --
zxaar Veteran Member • Posts: 4,272
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
7

Digital Dick wrote:

and the Nikon D800 with kit lens is only $2800.

Perhaps it's not fair to compare the top of the line against an entry level model.

Dick

Execpt for the fact that the top of the line m43 is no where near d800 with kit lens.

-- hide signature --

::> I make spelling mistakes. May Dog forgive me for this.

Digital Dick Senior Member • Posts: 1,818
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price

True but is the D800 3x better than the E-M5. I think not.

Dick

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PC Wheeler
PC Wheeler Forum Pro • Posts: 17,902
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price

Cimarron wrote:

the lowest-price M43 option is the G6 at $750 -- compared to the Sony A58 with 18-55 and 75-300 lenses for $596.  Not to mention the plethora of inexpensive, high-quality lenses.

Check  a review of that 75-300 Alpha lens sometime. Not a desirable choice on the A58. Low price isn't everything, though I suppose a newbie might be drawn by that Sony package.

-- hide signature --

Phil

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mmshoot Regular Member • Posts: 133
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
1

I think it has more to do with awareness.  When people step up from a P&S, they just assume that the DSLR is the route to go and Canon and Nikon are the default choices.  Most people don't do that much investigation to even realize that micro 4/3 exists and what it can offer.

Only a big camera with big lenses are any good...

OP Cimarron Regular Member • Posts: 224
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price

mmshoot wrote:

I think it has more to do with awareness.  When people step up from a P&S, they just assume that the DSLR is the route to go and Canon and Nikon are the default choices.  Most people don't do that much investigation to even realize that micro 4/3 exists and what it can offer.

Only a big camera with big lenses are any good...

I agree.  I think M43 users, and mirrorless users in general, are more educated consumers.  We understand what we're buying, and why.  We're seeking a mirrorless format for specific reasons.

In contrast, I've known many SLR users who have no idea what differentiates an SLR from other cameras.  They just want something "that makes better pictures" or "makes that blurry background."  I'm not talking about all DSLR users, obviously -- just soccer-mom type users.

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jalywol
jalywol Veteran Member • Posts: 9,467
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
2

Cimarron wrote:

I just noticed today that you can get the latest Sony DSLT, the A58, with kit lens and 75-300mm zoom at B&H for $596.  Or you can get the very highly rated Pentax K-30 with kit lens for only $538.

By comparison, the Lumix G6 with kit lens is $750, and the previous-generation G5 is $599 for the kit.  And the OM-D and GH3 are still around $1,300 with the kit lens.

It's the same story with lenses.  There are all kinds of inexpensive APS-C lenses that are pretty high quality.  But with M43, you pay a premium for high image quality (with the exception of the Sigmas).

Anyway, I think high prices are one of the main reasons M43 hasn't gained much traction against DSLRs.  If I'm a consumer who wants the best image quality at the lowest price, I'm grabbing that Sony deal and passing on the high-priced new M43 cameras.

I wonder if prices will moderate as the technology matures? DSLR prices sure have...

I would give you another reason, at least in the USA: Distribution.  As of about two weeks ago, ALL the mirrorless cameras except one basic NEX and the Nikon 1, were no longer on display at my local Best Buy.  Given that in many parts of the country, BB is about the only place to go try a camera anymore, this means that, in essence, mirrorless has now become invisible to consumers in much of the US.

Lots of DSLRs on display, not so many P&S's anymore either, and NO Oly, Panasonic, Samsung, or upper level Sony NEX either.  All of those had been there a month earlier, so clearly BB has decided that mirrorless is not a good choice for their customers. (Personally, I think it has more to do with how badly their salespeople were trained on the technology; whenever I would go in and look at the mirrorless, if I had a question, the salespeople would give me outright misinformation and then try and steer me to the DSLRs).

If Oly and Panasonic want to capture the market, they need to get their products into stores,  ADVERTISE, and TRAIN THE SALESPEOPLE.

Until then, they will, in the US at least, remain an also-ran.

-J

mmshoot Regular Member • Posts: 133
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price

I think you could broaden it out to even more than just soccer moms...There are a lot of people who shot 35mm film and just assume that the DSLR is the equivalent and that it's better because it looks like a real camera.

Then I read about enthusiasts and semi-pros who say they have to use a DSLR (but not a FF) just so it looks like they are serious and would have customers complain if they used something else.

I think that will die out though as more and more people want to buy something that does both stills and video and not have separate cameras.  Particularly for travel where sized and weight is important.

It sounds like micro 4/3 is rapidly closing the gap on the APS-C DSLR's for noise at high ISO and speed of AF...I think it's nearly there for IQ from what I can tell.  Or at least it's splitting frog hairs.  Once that all falls in line people will opt for the smaller form factor.

mmshoot Regular Member • Posts: 133
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price

Well, I can guarantee you that micro 4/3 will be around longer than Best Buy!

jalywol
jalywol Veteran Member • Posts: 9,467
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
1

mmshoot wrote:

Well, I can guarantee you that micro 4/3 will be around longer than Best Buy!

True!

The only problem is, though, right now they are really the main place for people to go when they want to actually handle  and buy gear in person....so a presence there would be a good thing, if it were done right....

-J

optic67 Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price
2

you can pick up a canon 6d FF for just o £1100 in the uk , and FF it seems is only going to get cheaper  , olympus ep5 seems very expensive

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MichaelKJ Veteran Member • Posts: 3,466
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price

jalywol wrote:

Cimarron wrote:

I just noticed today that you can get the latest Sony DSLT, the A58, with kit lens and 75-300mm zoom at B&H for $596.  Or you can get the very highly rated Pentax K-30 with kit lens for only $538.

By comparison, the Lumix G6 with kit lens is $750, and the previous-generation G5 is $599 for the kit.  And the OM-D and GH3 are still around $1,300 with the kit lens.

It's the same story with lenses.  There are all kinds of inexpensive APS-C lenses that are pretty high quality.  But with M43, you pay a premium for high image quality (with the exception of the Sigmas).

Anyway, I think high prices are one of the main reasons M43 hasn't gained much traction against DSLRs.  If I'm a consumer who wants the best image quality at the lowest price, I'm grabbing that Sony deal and passing on the high-priced new M43 cameras.

I wonder if prices will moderate as the technology matures? DSLR prices sure have...

I would give you another reason, at least in the USA: Distribution.  As of about two weeks ago, ALL the mirrorless cameras except one basic NEX and the Nikon 1, were no longer on display at my local Best Buy.  Given that in many parts of the country, BB is about the only place to go try a camera anymore, this means that, in essence, mirrorless has now become invisible to consumers in much of the US.

Lots of DSLRs on display, not so many P&S's anymore either, and NO Oly, Panasonic, Samsung, or upper level Sony NEX either.  All of those had been there a month earlier, so clearly BB has decided that mirrorless is not a good choice for their customers. (Personally, I think it has more to do with how badly their salespeople were trained on the technology; whenever I would go in and look at the mirrorless, if I had a question, the salespeople would give me outright misinformation and then try and steer me to the DSLRs).

If Oly and Panasonic want to capture the market, they need to get their products into stores,  ADVERTISE, and TRAIN THE SALESPEOPLE.

Until then, they will, in the US at least, remain an also-ran.

-J

I agree that Oly and Panasonic need to greatly improve their marketing and distribution.

However, I've yet to encounter a Best Buy salesperson who was knowledgeable about any camera.

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Alumna Gorp Senior Member • Posts: 1,531
Re: Key reason M43 isn't gaining traction against DSLRs: Price

forest3 wrote:

you can pick up a canon 6d FF for just o £1100 in the uk , and FF it seems is only going to get cheaper  , olympus ep5 seems very expensive

The bodies might get cheaper but they wont get smaller and neither will the lenses.

With full frame DSLR`s becoming cheaper, where will this leave APS-C ?

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