New Pentax K-50 leaked

Started Jun 5, 2013 | Discussions
Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Senior Member • Posts: 2,643
Politically correct design
2

As waxwaine said above in his comment, and to which I agree:

"Consumers going for a Canon to cameras stores , without knowing how they went back home with a Pentax. A mimic market concept."

In the world ruled by the consumerist myopia and vague visual memory composed of fragments of this and that, being too bold and unique sometimes means lack of true recognition and living on the outskirts.

Pentax needs some kind of amorphic design in its lineup, and an entry level offer is one that will sell along hundreds of thousands of blobby Canons and Nikons.

This design is politically correct:

  • not Nikon exactly,
  • nor Canon exactly,
  • nor as bold as pure Pentax design would be 

Or you can say it it's an amalgam of all three.

It's politically correct, which isn't overly exciting, but the population aiming for such cameras aren't looking for excitements in their lives either.

It will sell well.

But if Ricoh wants Pentax to transform its personality into a conformist one, and tailor the entire of its new lineup into this politically correct amorphic amalgam, I'm going to sell all my Pentax gear, and my car, and switch to Leica and travel with public transport.

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Zvonimir Tosic
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Russell Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 12,607
Did I miss focus peaking in the spec?

Looked a few times and I don't see it in the spec.

Thank you
Russell

soheil Veteran Member • Posts: 3,005
Any HDMI output?
1

Seems now Pentax have too many options for the 16MB processor and it's time to move on to a higher relolution processor for it's top of the range DSLR

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Ari Aikomus
Ari Aikomus Veteran Member • Posts: 9,339
Still no swivel screen ?!
3

What! No swivel screen...Pretty unbelievable

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mcdim Regular Member • Posts: 113
Re: New Pentax K-50 leaked
1

I think "Japan design" was just an excuse – K-30 shape was funny if not to say ridiculous! (I wander how people use it to shoot BIF – all birds should fall down laughing ).

I want money spent on functionality, not design – give me some sort of “Dacia” of camera market!

Yet waiting for more radical news to start thinking about upgrade from my K-x.

Cheers,

mcdim

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Russell Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 12,607
Re: New Pentax K-50 leaked

RonakG wrote:


You know, with the spec being pretty close, maybe the point of the K-50 is just to appeal to more female shooters and both the K-30 and K-50 will stay on the market? I always thought the K-30 looked more video game like, i.e. male orientated.

I think Pentax should have left the back curve in the K-50 that can be seen in the K-30 photo above. It seems like it would have played well with the rest of the camera.

Thank you
Russell

marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: 12-bit RAW? Must be Sony special sensor
2

GordonBGood wrote:

rwl408 wrote:

I thought 14-bit RAW is standard these days. I could be wrong but K-30 and this one seem to be the only two with 12-bit RAW.

I think they have just mostly re-packaged the K-30 design, which used the same 12-bit Sony sensor as the K-01 and K-30, which is a different sensor than the 14-bit one used in the K-5 and K-5 II's.  The 12-bit sensor seems to have a faster scan rate for higher specification in video modes and a faster frame rate for Live View.

It's the same Sony 16 mp Exmor, but I believe the 12-bit is more a result of the DNG RAW format vs the PEF RAWs files from the K-5.

Not much is being lost due to 12-bit instead of 14-bit raw depth, especially with this sensor, as if it had 14-bit output one would only get about one extra usable distinction in level in the deepest shadows which would only be usable at ISO 200 and below, but at a cost of about 40% larger average raw file sizes after they are loss less compressed due to inefficiencies in compressing more random noise in the majority of the settings and due to inefficiencies in the 14-bit compression parameters.

I remember reading on DxOMark that the 12-bit RAWs essentially cost the K-30 / K-01 about 1 EV DR.

Personally I don't know why Pentax is limiting what are otherwise perfect cameras like the K-30 and Ricoh GR with 12-bit DNG.  Even the D5100 has 14-bit uncompressed RAW, so it's not a low-end / high-end thing.

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UltraWide Regular Member • Posts: 236
Re: k5 body..no matter what inside

+1

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Cheers from Oz

audiobomber
audiobomber Veteran Member • Posts: 5,761
Re: 12-bit RAW? Must be Sony special sensor
2

marike6 wrote:

I remember reading on DxOMark that the 12-bit RAWs essentially cost the K-30 / K-01 about 1 EV DR.

Personally I don't know why Pentax is limiting what are otherwise perfect cameras like the K-30 and Ricoh GR with 12-bit DNG.  Even the D5100 has 14-bit uncompressed RAW, so it's not a low-end / high-end thing.

The D5100 has 0.6EV higher DR compared to the K-30, but only shoots 4 fps vs. 6 fps for the K-30. Maybe that's why Pentax went with 12-bit. Less data to crunch allows faster processing.

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Dan

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marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: New Pentax K-50 leaked

Looks nice, except I can't understand the back thumb rest which is totally smooth.  I prefer the textured thumb rest on the K-30.

As far as all the negative K-30 design posts, the K-30 design fits perfectly with the Pentax design tradition that's always produced for more unique looking bodies going way back to the rather odd looking MZ-S 35mm film camera, and the more traditional, but still unique (and still awesome) K10D and K20D.

Considering the K-30 is also fully weather sealed I also think it's sporty design totally fits.  And honestly, it's a camera that really needs to be held to appreciate it's great ergonomics.

The notch on the wonderfully deep grip and the extremely tall pop-up flash are all design choices that have a positive impact on the K-30's usability.

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samhain Senior Member • Posts: 1,301
Quality, not quantity?
1

So what does this make, 6 pentax aps-c cameras one can buy new at the moment? Yay, another one- but with an uglier body that looks like a Canon. Yawn.

Hey Ricoh/Pentax- here's a lineup idea.
How about:
• one awesome point & shoot.
• one awesome waterproof point & shoot
• one awesome small, retro rangefinder styled aps-c
• one awesome aps-c dslr
• one awesome retro rangefinder styled FF
• one awesome FF dslr
• one awesome medium format.
• lots of super fast glass from now on. F2 & F2.8 zooms, f1.4(or faster) primes.

Thats it- No skimping, no more entry level this, enthusist that- just make top of the line cameras that make Pentax synonymous with Top shelf. Stop trying to be the camera company that caters to every damn type of amateur & be the company that caters to people who are serious about photography(notice I didn't use the word 'professional').

Pentax is in the unique position in that its the only dslr company to have a digital Medium format in its lineup. I'd like to see them have a solid, straightford upgrade path.
Aps-c --> FF --> MF.
No more than 2 models of each. Quality, not quantity.

RonakG
OP RonakG Regular Member • Posts: 342
Re: New Pentax K-50 leaked

marike6 wrote:

Looks nice, except I can't understand the back thumb rest which is totally smooth.  I prefer the textured thumb rest on the K-30

I just love K-30's design. It's very sporty and aggressive looking.

I was so looking forward to upgrade my K-x to K-30 sometime later this year. K-50 is too subtle for my taste. I may still go ahead and buy a K-30 for dirt cheap when K-50 is officially announced.

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RonakG
Pentax K-x
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My blog - http://www.ronakg.com

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marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Great. How about they bring lens prices back down to earth...
2

I'm a huge fan of Pentax bodies, and this leaked K-50 looks very nice.  The real problem is that Pentax has raised it's prices on lenses to such an extreme levels that they are no longer competitive with Nikon / Canon APS-C and FF lenses from a price / performance POV.

When the 40 2.8 is now $500, and the 31 and 77 1.8 DA primes are well over $1000 each it's a serious problem for perspective Pentax customers.  And it doesn't get any better for zoom users as they are all outrageously priced. When you have old screw driver lenses like the 12-24 ($900) or variable aperture or f4 lenses like the 17-70 f4 ($600) it's a real problem because it mean that no matter how great the bodies Pentax is producing, the prohibitively expensive glass is a big stumbling block for many.

Pentax Lens line-up at B&H - Wow, how times have changed price wise from one or two years ago.

And these are USA prices.  I cannot imagine what Pentax users in Europe are paying.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Brand_Pentax&ci=274&N=4288584247+4291284238

One or two years ago you could put together a nice kit with three DA* primes for a decent amount of money.  Now, forget it.  With almost no f1.4 lenses except the 50 1.4 and 55 1.4 it's a lineup that is primarily APS-C, but with in many cases, FF price tags.

So either you buy into the Pentax system and use good, but all plastic budget lenses like the DA 35 2.4 and 50 1.8, mixed together with aging kit lenses like the 18-55 WR and mediocre 50-200 WR or you spend a fortune on APS-C primes like the DA* series and the astronomically price f2.8 APS-C zooms like the 16-50 and 50-135.   Or you simply forgo Pentax glass in favor of third party lenses like the Tamron or Sigma 17-50 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 (both of which are priced more in-line with what APS-C lenses should be priced).

Anyway, I was very sad the day I sold my K-30, but at the time, I refused to go along with Pentax USA's overzealous pricing for it's aging lens lineup.  I think they are making a big mistake by not trying at least to remain competitive price wise with the other big three.  New bodies are almost exciting, but the overall system of lenses and flashes that has to be taken into account from a price / performance perspective.

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jimmytong
jimmytong Forum Member • Posts: 90
Re: New Pentax K-50 leaked

Now a days rumors all come from France

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rwl408 Senior Member • Posts: 1,827
Re: 12-bit RAW? Must be Sony special sensor

marike6 wrote:

It's the same Sony 16 mp Exmor, but I believe the 12-bit is more a result of the DNG RAW format vs the PEF RAWs files from the K-5.

No, the 12-bit is the hardware limitation and has nothing to do with RAW data format.

I remember reading on DxOMark that the 12-bit RAWs essentially cost the K-30 / K-01 about 1 EV DR.

Personally I don't know why Pentax is limiting what are otherwise perfect cameras like the K-30 and Ricoh GR with 12-bit DNG.  Even the D5100 has 14-bit uncompressed RAW, so it's not a low-end / high-end thing.

I agree with you that it is not a low-end/high-end thing. My take is it is a cost thing. Either Sony supplies the 12-bit sensor chip at a lower cost or Pentax relaxes the hardware pipeline design (ADC, etc.) to save some cost even though the sensor chip is 14-bit capable.

GordonBGood Veteran Member • Posts: 6,307
Re: 12-bit RAW? Must be Sony special sensor
2

marike6 wrote:

GordonBGood wrote:

rwl408 wrote:

I thought 14-bit RAW is standard these days. I could be wrong but K-30 and this one seem to be the only two with 12-bit RAW.

I think they have just mostly re-packaged the K-30 design, which used the same 12-bit Sony sensor as the K-01 and K-30, which is a different sensor than the 14-bit one used in the K-5 and K-5 II's.  The 12-bit sensor seems to have a faster scan rate for higher specification in video modes and a faster frame rate for Live View.

It's the same Sony 16 mp Exmor, but I believe the 12-bit is more a result of the DNG RAW format vs the PEF RAWs files from the K-5.

It's not the same Sony Exmor sensor based on the raw photosite dimensions including the masked-to-light areas used for black level compensation:  The K-5's have 4992 by 3284 photosites with 32 columns of "garbage" photosites on the right side (in landscape orientation) and 10 black level compensation rows on the left leaving 4950 by 3884 active imaging photosities including those used for border processing; the K-30 has raw dimensions of 4960 by 3300 photosites (no "garbage" photosites) with 8 rows on the top and 12 columns on the left (again in normal landscape orientation) leaving 4958 by 3292 active imaging photosites.  It is impossible for one sensors active area to fit into the other even if the cameras scan different numbers of rows or columns as to producing these different active photosite widths.

In addition, if the output of the K-30 was actually 14-bits and this was being truncated or rounded to 12-bits by the camera's hardware imaging engine, then the DxOMark Dynamic Range (DR) chart would be more linear toward the low ISO's end of the curve than it is.

Not much is being lost due to 12-bit instead of 14-bit raw depth, especially with this sensor, as if it had 14-bit output one would only get about one extra usable distinction in level in the deepest shadows which would only be usable at ISO 200 and below, but at a cost of about 40% larger average raw file sizes after they are loss less compressed due to inefficiencies in compressing more random noise in the majority of the settings and due to inefficiencies in the 14-bit compression parameters.

I remember reading on DxOMark that the 12-bit RAWs essentially cost the K-30 / K-01 about 1 EV DR.

Part of that loss of DR (about a third of a stop) is due to just higher black read noise at the sensor level and has nothing to do with the bit depth as it is still present at ISO 400 where an extra bit depth would have any influence as at higher ISO's the least significant even 12-bit levels are nothing but random noise anyway.  The other two thirst of a stop DR loss is indeed due to the lesser bit depth but just due to the less Analogue to Digital Converters (ADC's) having less Effective Number Of Bits (ENOB) than than the higher quality 14 bit ADC's.

Personally I don't know why Pentax is limiting what are otherwise perfect cameras like the K-30 and Ricoh GR with 12-bit DNG.  Even the D5100 has 14-bit uncompressed RAW, so it's not a low-end / high-end thing.

For many cameras such as all current Canon DSLR's, 14-bit raw depth is nothing but a marketing gimmick in that the least significant bits are nothing but random (and not so random) noise in all cases and serve to purpose other than to increase raw file sizes.  Even for those cameras such as the K-5 series where the extra bit depth can actually be using in given a few extra discernable levels at lowest ISO sensitivities below ISO 400, most users never push process enough to actually use those levels.

For those who actually understand such things, there is no difference between the usability of Nikon's virtually loss less (lossy), loss less, and uncompressed raw formats of whatever the bit depth (although the greater bit depth option does have its use for extreme push processing of low ISO raw images), and the choice of all of these modes is again a marketing "thing" in order to keep all customers happy.  I wish Pentax had more options in this way so those who wish can use the maximum file size in all cases and those who understand what they are doing can choose a file option appropriate to the shooting conditions and their image requirements.

I think that Pentax chose this 12-bit sensor for its better video specification and Live View (LV) scan rates knowing that most entry and mid level users don't need a camera with such a high DR as the K-5 series in the interest of this better video and LV usefulness and in order to reduce raw file sizes by about an average of a third.

Regards, GordonBGood

waxwaine
waxwaine Contributing Member • Posts: 997
Re: No muare filter ¿could?

For usd600, a muare filterless DSLR could be an agressive market alternative for low budget semipros photographers.

gaddigad Senior Member • Posts: 1,900
Re: New Pentax K-50 leaked

asahi man wrote:

Münchhausen wrote:

Don´t like the design - and I am a REAL PENTAX FAN. But I´m in for the K-5II(s) successor, anyway...

This design is the reaction of the forum and customer reactions about the K-30 design.

K-30 design was a Japanfriendly idea

Ricoh is thinking more worldwide NOW.

Best regards

They could just use the wonderful k100d design and be done with it.

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Ivan Glisin
Ivan Glisin Contributing Member • Posts: 726
Re: New Pentax K-50 leaked

Good visual comparison. Likely K-50 shell is built around K-30 core - every button and dial are positioned in exactly the same way. Looks like Ricoh is tired of majority literally ridiculing K-01 and K-30 designs, and decided to give them another boring, usually shaped camera as a response.

Mike Hiran
Mike Hiran Senior Member • Posts: 1,191
How does the K50 stack up vs it's competition?

How does the K50 stack up vs it's competition?

I think this is the key question - whether it's a significant enough improvement for us, who probably already have a Pentax DSLR, really isn't that important.  It's the new potential DSLR customers this camera is for.

So what does this camera have going for it?

Slightly higher than entry level price point, particularly against older DSLR's.

Dual wheels, pentaprism, in body stabilization, magnesium (partly) body, weather resistance, great high iso (though this is pretty much standard these days except canon), large buffer for high speed shooting, great user interface, focus peaking (?), raw dng, micro lens adjustments (?), AA battery support.

These are pretty much the same advantages of the k30 and it is what made and still makes it such a great value.  So feature wise, the k50 is positioned well.  Styling wise, perhaps it is less polarizing and so sales can just focus on it's feature package and not get distracted by looks.  And with the DAL WR, the price of a WR DSLR kit just went down...

$699 for a WR kit w/ semi pro features?  I'd say this is a good opportunity for Pentax if marketing and distribution (ie presence in stores) can do it's part.

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