Is everyone here a professional now

Started Jun 3, 2013 | Discussions
Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 37,578
No.

Not me - that would turn this diversion from the everyday into work, and I already have a full-time job.

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sean lancaster
sean lancaster Veteran Member • Posts: 7,389
Re: Is everyone here a professional now

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Who says SLR's arent fun?

The only thing not fun about DPR is the incessant bigotry against SLR users.

I am sure they could be fun, and the only reason they crept into this thread is because it is most often DSLR owners who use the phrase 'when I am on a serious shoot', as if nothing else would be suitable.  But my question is, what is a serious shoot?

I have a buddy who is a professional photographer and he shoots events for the city every week and multiple times a week often. He's also the city's Symphony photographer and so on. Those events are his serious shoots. When he goes out shooting with me, we might both take DSLRs anyway, but he sometimes goes very light with his X100 and I might go light with an NEX 5N. But for me, there really aren't serious shoots and I try and take my DSLR everywhere regardless of whether I plan to shoot or just want to have it in case the opportunity arises.

You've really confused me with this exchange:

brianj wrote:

happysnapper64 wrote:

In my golfing days,now long gone, I was as serious as anyone about playing & scoring the best I could. To that end, I practiced more than any of my friends & managed a decent single figure handicap, till a different handicap, arthritis, caused me to stop. When playing I was trying my very best, as well as having fun with my playing partners. If I play terrible, I rejoiced in having been out & having fun with friends, & know there is always another day. I have the same attitude to photography. Yes, I am serious, in as much as I try to take as good a shot as possible, trying not to be careless or haphazard. If it turns out I don't get the shots I wanted or hoped for, I have learned something [hopefully!]

I think that is very similair to to way I approach photography.

Brian

If that's how you approach photography then I don't understand how you are questioning others. In fact, the way happysnapper explained his photography is how I approach photography as well. When I am doing it, I am serious about my hobby to the point that I do not mind purchasing a full frame DSLR and very fast prime lenses to better accomplish the photography goals I set for myself. Each time I am out shooting, I am trying to do the best I can do and to constantly improve, just like in golf. I am not a professional in golf or photography, but I still buy very nice golf clubs. If I screw up, I know it's not because of the equipment I use, but because of my own deficiencies; same with photography (and even more so with photography where equipment can make a drastic difference - e.g., see the bokeh I get with a Canon 50/1.2L on a 6D versus the kit lens on my NEX 5N at an equivalent focal length). I wasn't always serious about photography as a hobby; I traveled Europe and went to Africa and even more international travel with a point and shoot camera in just the past 5 years. I was fine with that and with taking snapshots. Over the past 2 years, my interest level grew as did my knowledge of the technical aspects of photography and composition. As my interest and skill level grew, so did my awareness of the limitations in the equipment I was using. I graduated to an NEX 5N and then to my current Canon 6D. If I hadn't grew in skill and knowledge then I wouldn't have made these purchases and I'd probably just be using my camera phone here and there. I just want to continue to get better and I shoot daily in the hopes of seeing the improvements play out. Cheers!

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Mike_PEAT Forum Pro • Posts: 13,344
I got my first SLR (fully manual) when I was 11.
1

My fist SLR I got when I was 11 was fully manual...you had to set the shutter speed, aperture, and focus for every shot.  Soon after I started doing my own chemical darkroom work.  I was NOT a professional, I was though a serious amateur.  Taking a hobby seriously with better equipment doesn't mean professional.

brianj wrote:

When this site began it seemed to be teaming with amatuer and hobbyist photographer who revelled in getting more out of their new 2mp P&S digital cameras, it was really exciting days.

When the site started a dSLR costed more than a car, $35,000!  Back then I did use a digital p&s and later a digital bridge camera to get my feet wet, but I still shot regularly with my film SLR.  When dSLR prices hit the $1000 mark only then I got one and stopped shooting film.

Now when I am reading threads people talk about carrying a P&S for unexpected things like someone runs into their car, but here's the interesting part, they say 'but when I am on a serious shoot' I take out the DSLR.

When getting the best shot counts, shouldn't the best possible equipment be used?

I take photos all the time and when I go on holidays I take a lot more, I love taking photos, but there is nothing serious about it, its just to record my family's life and have fun.

And that's YOUR opinion of the hobby.  But to many of us it's not about family snapshots, but creating works of art.  Take a look at the photos at http://www.1x.com for example.

What is this serious photography that requires a DSLR, is it paid work, or something that their life depends on, will they lose face?

Suggest you check out Canon's "Why" commercial to explain that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YCY0GwtOqM

Can anyone please explain what has happened to people these days that everything has become so serious, where is the fun gone?  Is it only over on the Connect site?

There has ALWAYS been serious photographers out there, some use camera formats that are LARGER than "full frame", medium format and large format.  When I was a teenager I even got to use a camera that was taller than a person, 24" x 36" sheets of film.

But one thing you're missing is this is predominantly a gear site, not a photo site.  It's expected that people here are more serious about gear.

gloaming Veteran Member • Posts: 3,895
Re: It's not about being a professional...

A recognized definition of the term 'professional' requires that its constituents be members a group of practitioners of a craft, science, or service, who have access to an exclusive knowledge base, who police each other, who agree to a code of conduct and ethics, and who receive community sanction for their expertise.  In exchange, society calls them a profession and lets them regulate themselves and find better ways to do what they do.

I would not think amany working in the field of photography could be called professionals under those terms.  They don't subscribe to a mutually agreed code of ethics except what is imposed on them by law, for example.  Some may be more skilled, some may have unusual talent, some may be highly popular, and may be highly paid.  if that is so, anyone making a reasonable living can arbitrarily be labelled a professional.

Like anything else, the meaning slips/morphs over time.  Plumbers are professionals because they work in that field.  Taxi drivers could be called professional drivers, but truckers might disagree.  None of them subscribe to a code that isn't imposed by law, and very few, if any, seek to improve their trade substantively using a rigorous methodology.

edispics
edispics Veteran Member • Posts: 3,715
Not according to Marissa Mayer

Who believes there is no such thing as a professional photographer. I guess that makes everyone here an amateur by default.

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 18,313
Re: It's not about being a professional...

brianj wrote:

Is the quest to become as passionate as your budget will allow?  I guess i am not passionate to such an extreme because I am not willing to sell my kidneys just to buy the lastest and greatest.

I cannot afford to 'sell my kidneys' either, which is why I get the best equipment I can afford, and by shopping carefully I am able to do so very reasonably.

I get a lot of fun from just trying to get the most out of any equipment, it could just be an old second hand camera, like the fellow who recently bought a G5 just because he always wanted one.  But what ever it is I am passionate about trying to get it to work the way I want.

It can be fun doing that but if the results aren't there, the fun is gone.

I mean anyone could re-mortgage the house and go out and buy the best and say hey look what this gear can do.  But what enjoyment would that be, its no accomplishment by the photographer.  Someone demonstrated how some camera could produce a beautiful image at ISO54000, so what.

Expensive equipment being used by people who have more money than ability is a waste. It is not going to produce anything worthwhile if the user has no talent or vision.

A person needs the right equipment for the kind of shooting they like to do, and they need it to be good enough that it does not hinder them. I have barely $1100 invested in my whole DSLR system and I am quite pleased with what it can do. There are people who have gone out and bought two or three of the same basic model of superzoom or advanced point/shoot who are now sitting on three highly similar cameras, have more invested than I have, and their results by and large are not as good.

I am trying to work out why I am becoming a dinosaur and out of step here.

You're not becoming a dinosaur. You just need to understand why your kind of photography and equipment is right for you even if it's not for everyone.

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It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice. (sarcasm)

Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 25,843
Re: Is everyone here a professional now

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Who says SLR's arent fun?

The only thing not fun about DPR is the incessant bigotry against SLR users.

I am sure they could be fun, and the only reason they crept into this thread is because it is most often DSLR owners who use the phrase 'when I am on a serious shoot', as if nothing else would be suitable.  But my question is, what is a serious shoot?

Brian

A serious shoot is different for every person.  There can be no universal answer to this.

What is serious to one person might be, could be a throw away session for another person.

It seems highly illogical to ask and expect a useful answer to this question.

Each time the statement is made, it is implying that only a DSLR could be used for a serious purpose, why do we need this shoved down our throats all the time.

Brian

What statement are you talking about?  I agree, there isn't one single answer to "what is a serious shoot"?  What I consider serious isn't going to be serious to someone else.  Everybody has their own idea of a 'serious' shoot.  Some may not consider what they do for fun as serious, and that's ok too.

Mark

MoreorLess Veteran Member • Posts: 4,661
Re: What happened to fun?

rattymouse wrote:

MoreorLess wrote:

brianj wrote:

..and whats wrong with others taking the view that self improvement can be fun?

Nothing, I was talking about myself.

Of course not everyone has to take photography seriously but questioning someone who looks to challenge themselves with their hobby seems like the politics of the schoolyard.

I'm questioning the statement that 'serious photography can only be done with a DSLR', not that it shouldn't be done.

Personally what I like about photography is that its one of the few areas of popular culture where personal improvement and creativity is still an important element, elsewhere big business seems to want lazy comsumers.

I agree.

Brian

But your not just reffering to yourself, your comments at the start of this thread were spefically addressed at others.

Its getting annoying how much often get this kind of passive aggressive posting here, especially when it comes to DSLRs.

Exactly.  The OP was not directed at the author but instead against others.  It was a vent/rant against other people's choices and how the author felt left behind.

Indeed, I don't care about second guessing someone elses choices when it comes to photography gear but its getting annoying just how many of these kinds of threads tend to come across as purchase(or lack of purchase) justification.

The way the argument always seems to shift from someone making a statement agenst the choices of others to that same person getting defencive and bringing up his own needs is a dead giveaway IMHO.

Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 25,843
Re: Is everyone here a professional now

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Who says SLR's arent fun?

The only thing not fun about DPR is the incessant bigotry against SLR users.

I am sure they could be fun, and the only reason they crept into this thread is because it is most often DSLR owners who use the phrase 'when I am on a serious shoot', as if nothing else would be suitable.  But my question is, what is a serious shoot?

Brian

A serious shoot is different for every person.  There can be no universal answer to this.

What is serious to one person might be, could be a throw away session for another person.

It seems highly illogical to ask and expect a useful answer to this question.

Each time the statement is made, it is implying that only a DSLR could be used for a serious purpose, why do we need this shoved down our throats all the time.

Brian

There are many shots that can only be made with a DSLR.  Without more information, one cannot speculate what exactly the situation you refer to is.  But there is no more versatile camera than the SLR so it is not at all unusual to need such versatility to get the shot.

I'm glad cars don't have the same limitations as ordinary cameras, otherwise we would all have to drive a racing car to do serious driving.

Brian

Cars do have limitations depending on what you want to do.  If you want to do off-roading, you're not going to do it with a Nissan Sentra.  If you just want to get from home to work and back again and use as little fuel as possible then a Mustang GT 500 isn't the right choice.

If there were one camera that could be all things to all hobbyists we would all be using it.

Are you not happy with what you use?  Are you tring to find reasons others shouldn't be happy with their own gear?

Mark

xxbluejay21 Regular Member • Posts: 356
Re: No.
1

partly gas, partly because people believe you can't get good photos unless you have an expensive ILC. over the years I've realized so many photographers (no matter what their skill level) have gas, and I'm not saying it's a problem, but it's part of the reason why people buy so much expensive gear. Of course, I'm referring to hobbyists. If you need it for professional work, then all your gear is most likely justified. And these days ILC's are pretty "cheap" (for some, not for others), but cheap enough to get as a hobby. Photography as a profession is disappearing fast.

Gary Martin
Gary Martin Veteran Member • Posts: 4,480
Re: It's not about being a professional...

In this case, I think the term "serious" is being misused. A better term would be "passionate," in that many of us who are not professionals but are nevertheless obsessed with photography, and want to create images with the maximum level of craft we are capable of. The vast majority of pictures are taken in a far more casual manner - not a damn thing wrong with that either.

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Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,841
Re: Is everyone here a professional now

People develop.

Looking at my pictures taken ten years ago (using a p&s) now I am not as happy with the results as I was back in the day. Though the fun of taking pictures is still the same.

With digital it has become easier (and for sure cheaper) to learn photograpy, so I believe more and more people buy a dslr that in the film days may not have bought one due to cost and learning curve.

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Cheers Mike

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OP brianj Forum Pro • Posts: 14,657
Re: It's not about being a professional...

Gary Martin wrote:

In this case, I think the term "serious" is being misused. A better term would be "passionate," in that many of us who are not professionals but are nevertheless obsessed with photography, and want to create images with the maximum level of craft we are capable of. The vast majority of pictures are taken in a far more casual manner - not a damn thing wrong with that either.

Maybe seeing the word 'serious' and that you need a DSLR to do this thing is what bothers me, this saying only came into use in recent times and now everyone uses it, passionate in a more suitable word. I would say that I am a keen photographer as it takes second place with me, if I am out and about then I will photograph what I am seeing and doing, I seldom go on an outting where photography is the prime objective.

Brian

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OP brianj Forum Pro • Posts: 14,657
Re: Is everyone here a professional now

Mark B. wrote:

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Who says SLR's arent fun?

The only thing not fun about DPR is the incessant bigotry against SLR users.

I am sure they could be fun, and the only reason they crept into this thread is because it is most often DSLR owners who use the phrase 'when I am on a serious shoot', as if nothing else would be suitable.  But my question is, what is a serious shoot?

Brian

A serious shoot is different for every person.  There can be no universal answer to this.

What is serious to one person might be, could be a throw away session for another person.

It seems highly illogical to ask and expect a useful answer to this question.

Each time the statement is made, it is implying that only a DSLR could be used for a serious purpose, why do we need this shoved down our throats all the time.

Brian

There are many shots that can only be made with a DSLR.  Without more information, one cannot speculate what exactly the situation you refer to is.  But there is no more versatile camera than the SLR so it is not at all unusual to need such versatility to get the shot.

I'm glad cars don't have the same limitations as ordinary cameras, otherwise we would all have to drive a racing car to do serious driving.

Brian

Cars do have limitations depending on what you want to do.  If you want to do off-roading, you're not going to do it with a Nissan Sentra.  If you just want to get from home to work and back again and use as little fuel as possible then a Mustang GT 500 isn't the right choice.

If there were one camera that could be all things to all hobbyists we would all be using it.

Are you not happy with what you use?  Are you tring to find reasons others shouldn't be happy with their own gear?

Mark

No, they can do as they like, I am bugged by the implication that if you don't use a DSLR then you can't be a serious photographer.  In your scenerio that would be like saying that if you don't use a hummer then you can't be a serious driver.

Brian

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OP brianj Forum Pro • Posts: 14,657
Re: I will tell you what is not fun.

Richard wrote:

brianj wrote:

I take photos all the time and when I go on holidays I take a lot more, I love taking photos, but there is nothing serious about it, its just to record my family's life and have fun.

You have never tried to shoot birds in flight, fast indoor sports, these things take DSLRs, m43 cannot handle it let a lone a point and shoot.

What is this serious photography that requires a DSLR, is it paid work, or something that their life depends on, will they lose face?

No, it is no fun to try to take pictures of say birds in flight with gear that was not made to do it. You choose the right tool for the job, that isn't going to be a point and shoot in some cases.

Can anyone please explain what has happened to people these days that everything has become so serious, where is the fun gone?  Is it only over on the Connect site?

Brian

They have all gone to instagram where they can take their snapshots, over cook them and complement each other on their over processed images. I think they think that is fun so that is where they have gone.

The fun is still here but the cheese has been moved. Depends on what type of cheese you like.

I think your right, the less obsessed are having fun over at Instagram, I think you have identified what is wrong here for me.

Brian

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OP brianj Forum Pro • Posts: 14,657
Re: I got my first SLR (fully manual) when I was 11.

Mike_PEAT wrote:

My fist SLR I got when I was 11 was fully manual...you had to set the shutter speed, aperture, and focus for every shot.  Soon after I started doing my own chemical darkroom work.  I was NOT a professional, I was though a serious amateur.  Taking a hobby seriously with better equipment doesn't mean professional.

brianj wrote:

When this site began it seemed to be teaming with amatuer and hobbyist photographer who revelled in getting more out of their new 2mp P&S digital cameras, it was really exciting days.

When the site started a dSLR costed more than a car, $35,000!  Back then I did use a digital p&s and later a digital bridge camera to get my feet wet, but I still shot regularly with my film SLR.  When dSLR prices hit the $1000 mark only then I got one and stopped shooting film.

Now when I am reading threads people talk about carrying a P&S for unexpected things like someone runs into their car, but here's the interesting part, they say 'but when I am on a serious shoot' I take out the DSLR.

When getting the best shot counts, shouldn't the best possible equipment be used?

I take photos all the time and when I go on holidays I take a lot more, I love taking photos, but there is nothing serious about it, its just to record my family's life and have fun.

And that's YOUR opinion of the hobby.  But to many of us it's not about family snapshots, but creating works of art.  Take a look at the photos at http://www.1x.com for example.

What is this serious photography that requires a DSLR, is it paid work, or something that their life depends on, will they lose face?

Suggest you check out Canon's "Why" commercial to explain that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YCY0GwtOqM

Can anyone please explain what has happened to people these days that everything has become so serious, where is the fun gone?  Is it only over on the Connect site?

There has ALWAYS been serious photographers out there, some use camera formats that are LARGER than "full frame", medium format and large format.  When I was a teenager I even got to use a camera that was taller than a person, 24" x 36" sheets of film.

But one thing you're missing is this is predominantly a gear site, not a photo site.  It's expected that people here are more serious about gear.

Hense my question, 'has everyone turned into a professional here'?  Otherwise, if they are still taking a picture of their dog or cat then any camera would do.  Its laughable the number of threads you see here asking what would be the best DSLR to buy to tak a photo of my dog!!!!!!!

Brian

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Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 25,843
Re: Is everyone here a professional now

brianj wrote:

Mark B. wrote:

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

brianj wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Who says SLR's arent fun?

The only thing not fun about DPR is the incessant bigotry against SLR users.

I am sure they could be fun, and the only reason they crept into this thread is because it is most often DSLR owners who use the phrase 'when I am on a serious shoot', as if nothing else would be suitable.  But my question is, what is a serious shoot?

Brian

A serious shoot is different for every person.  There can be no universal answer to this.

What is serious to one person might be, could be a throw away session for another person.

It seems highly illogical to ask and expect a useful answer to this question.

Each time the statement is made, it is implying that only a DSLR could be used for a serious purpose, why do we need this shoved down our throats all the time.

Brian

There are many shots that can only be made with a DSLR.  Without more information, one cannot speculate what exactly the situation you refer to is.  But there is no more versatile camera than the SLR so it is not at all unusual to need such versatility to get the shot.

I'm glad cars don't have the same limitations as ordinary cameras, otherwise we would all have to drive a racing car to do serious driving.

Brian

Cars do have limitations depending on what you want to do.  If you want to do off-roading, you're not going to do it with a Nissan Sentra.  If you just want to get from home to work and back again and use as little fuel as possible then a Mustang GT 500 isn't the right choice.

If there were one camera that could be all things to all hobbyists we would all be using it.

Are you not happy with what you use?  Are you tring to find reasons others shouldn't be happy with their own gear?

Mark

No, they can do as they like, I am bugged by the implication that if you don't use a DSLR then you can't be a serious photographer.  In your scenerio that would be like saying that if you don't use a hummer then you can't be a serious driver.

Brian

To be honest, I do have a hard time taking Hummers seriously

My point is, someone wanting to minimize their driving cost isn't going to do it with something like a Hummer.  I'm not sure it's the right vehicle to go off-roading in either, I don't think I've ever seen one off of the pavement LOL.

OP brianj Forum Pro • Posts: 14,657
Re: Is everyone here a professional now

Limburger wrote:

People develop.

Looking at my pictures taken ten years ago (using a p&s) now I am not as happy with the results as I was back in the day. Though the fun of taking pictures is still the same.

With digital it has become easier (and for sure cheaper) to learn photograpy, so I believe more and more people buy a dslr that in the film days may not have bought one due to cost and learning curve.

I had an SLR in the film days because that was the best camera for seeing and framing exactly what the lens saw, but that is also the case with any live view digital camera now so no need to lug a brick around any more.

Brian

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Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,841
Re: Is everyone here a professional now

brianj wrote:

Limburger wrote:

People develop.

Looking at my pictures taken ten years ago (using a p&s) now I am not as happy with the results as I was back in the day. Though the fun of taking pictures is still the same.

With digital it has become easier (and for sure cheaper) to learn photograpy, so I believe more and more people buy a dslr that in the film days may not have bought one due to cost and learning curve.

I had an SLR in the film days because that was the best camera for seeing and framing exactly what the lens saw, but that is also the case with any live view digital camera now so no need to lug a brick around any more.

Brian

The VF is the only part that matters concerning framing accurately if you ask me.

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Cheers Mike

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NancyP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,321
Gear Geekery

Sometimes the desired image is best obtained using more specialized equipment. An extreme example: bird photography. You need either an SLR and 400mm lens or one of the small-sensor bridge cameras with an ultra-zoom giving the equivalent of 400mm. A phone camera doesn't do the job.

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NancyP

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