Poll Will You buy LR5 knowing that next LR will be available through cloud only?

Started May 14, 2013 | Discussions
hjaeger Forum Member • Posts: 86
Re: No FUD

Marcin 3M wrote:

Adobe also stated at the beginning of CS6, that perpetual licenses for suites and point programs are going to be available in the future...

Do you have a reference/link for this statement about perpetual licenses?

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Glen Barrington
Glen Barrington Forum Pro • Posts: 19,679
Re: Export MIGHT be possible. . .

Ted Kahn wrote:

Glen Barrington wrote:

Well those non destructive edits can be stored directly in a DNG file, So theoretically at least, those edits could be accessed by any piece of software that fully supported the DNG format.

I don't think that will work.  Lightroom stores your edits as a list of instructions that tell the image rendering engine (if that's the right terminology) what to do in order to make the image look the way you adjusted it.  Without the engine itself the instructions are meaningless, and of course no other company has access to Adobe's engine.

Bummer!  I suspect you are correct.  Sometimes we get carried so away with the challenge that we forget the practical application.

It appears the area in a dng file set aside for the changes is a free form text field of no fixed size.  The software publisher appears to be free to use this field any way it wants.  Even if there were consistent standards on how that field was used so that retrieval of the information stored there was simple; re applying that info to the photo in a manner consistent with how Adobe does it might violate Adobe's proprietary rights.  The algorithms are copyrightable and I can't believe Adobe would let that detail slide!

At the very least, I suspect writing some sort of conversion utility would not likely be economically viable.

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jfriend00 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,720
Re: More of a, would I buy, if I needed it to begin with.
1

Marcin 3M wrote:

DenWil wrote:

Jim Hess wrote:

Absolutely!  It adds some nice features, and those features won't go away when/if Lightroom really does go subscription.  One question, have you read anywhere that Lightroom will only be available through the Creative Cloud?  Maybe I haven't read as much as you have, but I haven't seen that stated as yet.  At any rate, if everything does go to the CC that's OK.  I can still use my Photoshop CS6 and Lightroom 5.  It's not like anything new coming out is going to dramatically change the results.  I like what I can do now.  I don't plan to go to the CC.  I will upgrade Lightroom as long as I can.  And when that comes to an end I will either switch to something else or just be satisfied with what I have.

+1

That is an intelligent, logical  reasonable response Jim and most assuredly not what the OP is looking for. Lol.

You seems to know expectations of others very well.
No, I just want to know some arguments that are "pro" and "con".
For me it is important to know, as starting with lr3 I've decided to make this software the main solution for archive managing. And now I'm in a point that allows me to jump into another program, because I'm not ready to accept paying for the CC for the rest of my life to posses the access to my database - if I have any reasonable choice.

My logic is that I've chosen Lightroom and invested 5-6 years of photos into it's system.  It would cost me a lot to switch products, both to figure out what to do with my library and to invest in learning a new tool.

So, until Adobe actually makes a reason to switch, why switch?  Adobe may have changed the business model for some other products, but they have not changed it for Lightroom.  So, why cause myself grief by switching to another product when there is no problem to solve right now.   If it happens two years from now, I'll deal with it then.  If I decide to switch then, it won't make a whole lot of difference to me whether I have 5 years of photos in LR or 7 years.  It will be a pain either way.

And, I think there's also a reasonable probability that Adobe realizes that the market served by Lightroom contains a lot of hobbiests who don't spend money the same way that corporations do and thus Lightroom needs a different model than CS so I'd also like to give that outcome a chance to happen since that's the best for me.

And, since I do buy every upgrade to LR, it's also a possibility that subscribing to LR wouldn't be a problem for me too if it went to the subscription model.  There are lots of different possible outcomes in the future and I will know and understand them much better in the future so that's when I will best be equipped to make a decision about those outcomes - not now.  I'm not interested in making work for myself now just because of something Adobe did in another product line that isn't affecting me.

I do own CS6 (upgrade from CS3 - that's how often I upgrade) so in 3-4 years I'll probably be looking for a new pixel editor.  Since the CC model doesn't really work for hobby photographers (too expensive) and photographers do have occasional need for pixels editors, I figure there will probably be some new options for photographers (from someone other than Adobe) by the time I'm ready to advance beyond my current CS6.

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Franka T.L. Veteran Member • Posts: 8,148
No, and I suppose you mean subscription by cloud only ...

There is certain advantage to cloud based delivery of SaaS ( software as a service ) but that is not going to work for many, especially not for the mass of amateurs, hobbyist, and even dedicated enthusiasts.

What I believe is that there should be cloud based SaaS subscription but the Mfr should also offer perpetual license ( with appropriate support / update ) But those should also not get any major upgrade free, and instead the Mfr can grant those upgrade through purchased optional add on ...

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- Franka -

Leswick Veteran Member • Posts: 3,102
Re: No, and I suppose you mean subscription by cloud only ...

I'll let Adobe monopolize the edu institutions, but I don't ish to be part of that game...no PS or LR for me.  I just find the whole debacle about the cloud strangely amazing....and lots of folk will drop out.

Leswick

Mark K W Senior Member • Posts: 1,720
Re: Poll Will You buy LR5 knowing that next LR will be available through cloud only?

Marcin 3M wrote:

Will You buy LR5 knowing that next LR will be available through cloud only?

I believe the next version of LR (LR6) will be sold as download only, and:

  1. Be sold as base LR standalone version in a perpetual one-time payment new and upgrade licence, as per LR5, LR4, etc..
  2. Be available also as some mixed model of payment and functionality. So maybe some Adobe-service cloud sync'ing of catalog and previews to allow for multiple devices to process images (maybe library limited). This version will be bundled FoC to existing Photoshop CC subscribers, but also available as just "LR CC", maybe as one-time-payment but with optional monthly cloud-sync component.

I am basing above on comments from Tom Hogarty of Adobe (Lightroom Product Manager):

Google+ hangout

The Grid

.

I will chose option 1 of my list above, but only after careful consideration and evaluation of where Photoshop is really headed as I use both LR4 and CS6 now in a combined workflow..

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DMillier Forum Pro • Posts: 20,415
Re: Export MIGHT be possible. . .

So in practice, your only option is to render out the images as a set of finished TIF files and keep the original unprocessed raws along with a set of processing instructions that no software exists to follow except for the software you are trying to avoid using because of the fear that one day Adobe might choose to cut you off unless you pay them for the rest of your life!

Hmmm, not entirely satisfactory situation.  I guess you could always virtualise a 20 year old copy of your early paid for version of LR and move that from machine to machine forever...

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Glen Barrington
Glen Barrington Forum Pro • Posts: 19,679
Cheer up!

DMillier wrote:

So in practice, your only option is to render out the images as a set of finished TIF files and keep the original unprocessed raws along with a set of processing instructions that no software exists to follow except for the software you are trying to avoid using because of the fear that one day Adobe might choose to cut you off unless you pay them for the rest of your life!

Well, I don't think it is that bad actually.  You don't need the written processing instructions (who takes notes THAT good?).  That tif file IS an actualized version of the processing instructions. As always, rational backup procedures keeps your images safe.  Frankly, anyone who hasn't been doing that all along for their 'done' photos was asking for trouble anyway.

Hmmm, not entirely satisfactory situation.  I guess you could always virtualise a 20 year old copy of your early paid for version of LR and move that from machine to machine forever...

Why complicate your life and trade one uncertainty for the uncertainty of a major technology shift that renders your plan useless?

Wouldn't it just be easier in the long run, to bite the bullet. export your library of 'dones' to tif (or even jpeg for some photographers - it ain't 'lossy' if you don't edit and then save again.).  Then you export the raws, BACK UP BOTH of those exports, find a new piece of software, and be done with it? Proper planning will minimize any transitional pain.  This is really no different or more difficult than when a favorite software publisher goes out of business.  Easier actually, since you've got plenty of time to do it right.

Or, you could decide to stick with Lr and run the risks you are talking about.  That's a perfectly valid business/life decision.  Personally, I'm probably going to switch, unless I just CAN'T find something I can live with. (so far, I like ACDSee Pro 6 pretty well)  Plenty of time to decide and even change my mind if I have to.

Now is the time for hard headed business/life decisions.  This is NOT the end of the world!

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John1940
John1940 Senior Member • Posts: 2,753
Re: Cheer up!

Glen Barrington wrote:

DMillier wrote:

So in practice, your only option is to render out the images as a set of finished TIF files and keep the original unprocessed raws along with a set of processing instructions that no software exists to follow except for the software you are trying to avoid using because of the fear that one day Adobe might choose to cut you off unless you pay them for the rest of your life!

Well, I don't think it is that bad actually.  You don't need the written processing instructions (who takes notes THAT good?).  That tif file IS an actualized version of the processing instructions. As always, rational backup procedures keeps your images safe.  Frankly, anyone who hasn't been doing that all along for their 'done' photos was asking for trouble anyway.

Hmmm, not entirely satisfactory situation.  I guess you could always virtualise a 20 year old copy of your early paid for version of LR and move that from machine to machine forever...

Why complicate your life and trade one uncertainty for the uncertainty of a major technology shift that renders your plan useless?

Wouldn't it just be easier in the long run, to bite the bullet. export your library of 'dones' to tif (or even jpeg for some photographers - it ain't 'lossy' if you don't edit and then save again.).  Then you export the raws, BACK UP BOTH of those exports, find a new piece of software, and be done with it? Proper planning will minimize any transitional pain.  This is really no different or more difficult than when a favorite software publisher goes out of business.  Easier actually, since you've got plenty of time to do it right.

Or, you could decide to stick with Lr and run the risks you are talking about.  That's a perfectly valid business/life decision.  Personally, I'm probably going to switch, unless I just CAN'T find something I can live with. (so far, I like ACDSee Pro 6 pretty well)  Plenty of time to decide and even change my mind if I have to.

Now is the time for hard headed business/life decisions.  This is NOT the end of the world!

Nice post and a great punch line.

John1940

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Glen Barrington
Glen Barrington Forum Pro • Posts: 19,679
Re: Thanks

I got to thinking, your assumption seems to be a common one, not just about ACDSee Pro, but all the DAM products.  It seems they are all sold as 'everything you need' to one degree or another.  But clearly that isn't true.

They all need a companion editor to do the things they don't do.  Do they need Photoshop?  for most of us, probably not

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Barry Margolius Senior Member • Posts: 1,835
Re: Thanks

Glen Barrington wrote:

I got to thinking, your assumption seems to be a common one, not just about ACDSee Pro, but all the DAM products.  It seems they are all sold as 'everything you need' to one degree or another.  But clearly that isn't true.

They all need a companion editor to do the things they don't do.  Do they need Photoshop?  for most of us, probably not

I agree with you on this, but ACDSee marketing makes it even worse in my opinion.  They call their products ACDSee and ACDSee Pro.  To me, that "feels" like the Pro version is the same as the "regular" version but with more features.  As you have shown me, this is not true.

On the other hand, so far I'm loving ACDSee Pro.  For my modest needs, I like it better than Lightroom.  It just seems more intuitive: in fact, after using Lightroom for almost 5 years, and ACDSee Pro for about 5 days, ACDSee definitely feels more intuitive than Lightroom.

I also downloaded the trial of ACDSee 15, and it seems to be a competent photo editor.  Given the bargain price, I think I'll purchase that too, even though I "own" Photoshop CS6.

-barry

Glen Barrington
Glen Barrington Forum Pro • Posts: 19,679
Re: Thanks

Well ACDSee 15 is their basic organizer, I should think that would be redundant with ACDSee Pro.  Their standalone editor is called ACDSee Photo Editor 6.

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Barry Margolius Senior Member • Posts: 1,835
Re: Thanks

Glen Barrington wrote:

Well ACDSee 15 is their basic organizer, I should think that would be redundant with ACDSee Pro.  Their standalone editor is called ACDSee Photo Editor 6.

Yes, I knew that ...yesterday.  But, in just one day, I managed to confuse their products.  Now that I see your summary, it does make some semantic sense.  You have ACDSee or ACDSee Pro as organizer/DAM/basic enhancement products, and ACDSee Photo Editor as a ...photo editor.

Anyway, so far, I like the software quite a bit, even if I'm confused about their naming strategy.

Thanks,

-barry

Lee Jay Forum Pro • Posts: 53,071
It'll be a perpetual licence, so the question is moot

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2013/05/lightroom-and-the-creative-cloud.html

Q. Will Lightroom become a subscription only offering after Lightroom 5?

A. Future versions of Lightroom will be made available via traditional perpetual licenses indefinitely.

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CamCardo7 New Member • Posts: 4
Re: This post would have been my answer also.
Simply because it's based on something that isn't true, I don't knowthat the next version of lightroom will be available through the cloud only.  Someone at Adobe may know that, but certainly no one here does.  There are certainly strong indications that LR6 would be CC only, but there also reasons to believe that it will not be.  Either:

1)  Adobe wants to offer monthly licenses for all its software, regardless of market

or

2)  Adobe wants to offer "professional" software on monthly licenses and offer hobbyist and amateur software through more traditional methods.

Certainly there is less resistance (and perhaps enthusiasm) for monthly licensing from corporate users, so it makes sense for Adobe to move toward that distribution channel for products where such users make up the majority of their revenue.  If the outrage on this forum is any indication (or my own sentiment is a guide), most private users would not like such a licensing scheme, so it would not make sense for Adobe to use such schemes for products where private users make up the majority of their revenues.  I suspect (or hope) that LR falls into that latter category, where it makes good business sense to keep the license structure as is.  LR is already a much consumer friendly product, so there are some indications that this may be the case.

If either Adobe doesn't consider LR a consumer product or they will proceed to license all products through the CC, there is still a strong possibility LR5 may be the last version available as a stand alone.  If that's the case I might buy LR5 and just use it until I find something better, which is what I plan to do with CS6.

+me

olsem007 Forum Member • Posts: 93
Re: No.

Definitely no. LR is not a unique application that cannot be replaced.

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Most lenses and cameras are better than most photographers...

tex Veteran Member • Posts: 7,537
yes /nt
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oldphotog2
oldphotog2 Regular Member • Posts: 208
Re: Poll Will You buy LR5 knowing that next LR will be available through cloud only?

I stayed on CS2 until a couple months ago when I wanted to get LR4 and had to upgrade my OS. It took a while but I finally found WIN 7, for I hate WIN 8. Sad, but I lost my CS2.  I'll be using LR4 probably for a long time. And no more Illustrator, Photoshop, or Indesign for me, if going to the CC.

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Marcin 3M
OP Marcin 3M Senior Member • Posts: 1,597
Re: Poll Will You buy LR5 knowing that next LR will be available through cloud only?

oldphotog2 wrote:

I stayed on CS2 until a couple months ago when I wanted to get LR4 and had to upgrade my OS. It took a while but I finally found WIN 7, for I hate WIN 8. Sad, but I lost my CS2.  I'll be using LR4 probably for a long time. And no more Illustrator, Photoshop, or Indesign for me, if going to the CC.

Why You have lost Your cs2?

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Lumixdude Senior Member • Posts: 2,782
From the perspective of where I am now

If Lightroom went creative cloud only, I'd learn how to use Aperture. There in lies the problem for Adobe with them not having the strongest foothold on digital photography, there are other options. Aperture is a professional level alternative to Lightroom and then there is DxO Optics as well.

Adobe can afford to move Photoshop to the cloud because they won out against Corel years ago in terms of market share and Paint Shop Pro has never been a real alternative. There is to much competition in RAW editors however.

Lightroom is not an industry standard product that can not be replaced. There are at least 2 solid alternatives, Aperture might actually be better.

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