IPS Monitor Choice

Started May 10, 2013 | Discussions
ilysaml Forum Member • Posts: 91
IPS Monitor Choice

Hello,

I will upgrade my LED TN panel monitor, ASUS VH238H to a new IPS monitor for better viewing angles and better color reproduction for my DSLR photos, but I have some interests and some questions about this;

- I want a max resolution of 1080P/1200P, because I game a lot and the higher resolution will require more graphics horse and I don't wanna switch cards every year.

- I'm so comfortable with 23/24''

- My budget, max $300.

- I'm currently looking into ASUS MX239H 23 inch AH-IPS because of the fast response time (5ms) so is this a true IPS monitor? What should I look at when purchasing an IPS monitor?

- I see lots of debates between sRGB and Adobe RGB but don't know the difference, my monitor also have a sRGB mode but I'm always on the standard mode, what the difference between the two mentioned and what should I use?

- I won't be printing my photos so I don't need a hardware calibrator or such things, I just want a good monitor that have perfect color reproduction, also how to calibrate it properly.

- Some folks state that web browsers and not color-managed, how can I know this? I almost use the latest version of Chrome.

- Lastly, with my current LED, I set contrast to 80 and brightness to 50, is this a bad calibration? When the monitor is on 70-75 brightness it causes to me eye-strain as too much light comes from it.

Thanks in advance.

Fastfwd01
Fastfwd01 Regular Member • Posts: 441
Re: IPS Monitor Choice

I starting contemplating the purchase of an IPS monitor myself to upgrade from my current twisted plane monitor.  You can spend weeks reviewing the current offerings balanced against what your needs are – I can tell you that much for sure.  There are plenty of threads on the topic on this board with great information.

These appear to be the most highly regarded review sites:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews.htm

What is important to you might not be reflected in others opinions of what makes the best monitor.  It seems difficult to gauge how relative some aspects are to my particular wants/needs without hands-on experience.

If you’re looking for a monitor that will accommodate gaming then you’ll be looking in a direction that I haven’t explored personally.  I have been more fixated on if making the jump would be worth it for one of the 6 bit panel IPS monitors – which are likely what you are looking at for a gaming styled IPS and probably the compromise you need to accommodate gaming in your price range.

 Fastfwd01's gear list:Fastfwd01's gear list
Canon PowerShot G6 Canon EOS M Nikon D750 Samsung Galaxy S5
NewsyL
NewsyL Veteran Member • Posts: 5,736
Re: IPS Monitor Choice

ilysaml wrote:

Hello,

I will upgrade my LED TN panel monitor, ASUS VH238H to a new IPS monitor for better viewing angles and better color reproduction for my DSLR photos, but I have some interests and some questions about this;

- I want a max resolution of 1080P/1200P, because I game a lot and the higher resolution will require more graphics horse and I don't wanna switch cards every year.

- I'm so comfortable with 23/24''

- My budget, max $300.

OK

.

- I'm currently looking into ASUS MX239H 23 inch AH-IPS because of the fast response time (5ms) so is this a true IPS monitor? What should I look at when purchasing an IPS monitor?

Yes it is a true IPS monitor.  The response time is a debateable point of knowledge.  How are they measuring it?  Mfg's have been known to stretch the truth on specs like this.  Regardless, it is not that important.

Only hardcore top echelon gamers think they need that low response time.  I game fairly seriously on my Dell U2412M with its' 8ms G2G screen and I think I do very well.  Top 100 on many FPS servers when I get serious about it.

You want a true IPS tft LCD screen.

Bit depth - most IPS panel monitors under $400 USD and 24" or less use a 6bit+AFRC (Advanced Frame Rate Control) system to simulate an 8bit color depth of 16.7 million colors.  There are a few that are true 8bit but they are out of your budget range.  Higher bit depth means less issues with banding (posterization) in colour gradiants.  The reality is, and read the reviews to confirm this, the new 6bit+AFRC system is much better than the old 6bit+FRC so that bit depth issues such as banding and dark area artifacts are minimal.  Not quite as good as a current true 8bit, better than true 8bits from several years ago, but certainly adequate for someone like you, or me for that matter.

Uniformity - a lot of the inexpensive LED back lit monitors have issues with edge bleed, flash lighting or conversely drop off in corners.  Not much you can do about it but some models are more prone to this than others and it may be better to go with a monitor commonly used by DPReview viewers than an unknown.

Input Lag - sure the refresh rate is important for top echelon gaming but so is input lag.  Two of the best monitors for low input lag have IPS panels - the ASUS PA238Q (zero) and the Dell U2312HM (6ms).  The PA238Q is a true 8bit while the U2312HM is a 6bit+AFRC. However.... see the next category!!!

Minimal Brightness - it is really important for editing images in a near pitch black roo that you have a monitor that can have its' Brightness adjusted down to or below 80 cd/m2 of white luminance (how we measure brightness with a hardware calibrator).  Due the perceptual vagueness of the human eye that allows it to be fooled easily, you have to balance your monitor brightness against the ambient lighting of the room and, in particular, the area within your field of vision when you're staring at your monitor.  If you don't, edited images can lead to issues such as "dark prints".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion

Unfortunately, as good as the PA238Q sounds, it is a bit too bright!  Its' minimal brightness with 0% on the control is about 86 cd/m2.  So you may have to have a light illuminating your viewing area. The U2312HM is about 114 cd/m2 at 0% on the Brightness control.  Usable if you have a moderate amount of ambient lighting but not good for a very dark room.

Many other current monitors can go as low as 40 cd/m2 at 0% Brightness.

.

- I see lots of debates between sRGB and Adobe RGB but don't know the difference, my monitor also have a sRGB mode but I'm always on the standard mode, what the difference between the two mentioned and what should I use?

Most people who calibrate their monitors do so in the "User" or "Custom" mode.  Different brands - different menu names for the option that allows access to all RGB sliders and uses the full native gamut of the monitor.

Wide gamut monitors supporting 100% coverage of the sRGB space and AdobeRGB space are a nightmare for people new to color management issues.

The Web is sRGB and most offsite commercial printers want you to supply the image in the sRGB space.  So sRGB is certainly adequate.  If you were a pro or someone who prints at home on a high end multi-ink wide gamut printer and shoots super colorful subjects on a regular basis, then you would likely want to consider a wide gamut monitor. But to use it effectively you would also need a good quality hardware calibrator - another $250 to $300 expenditure.

.

- I won't be printing my photos so I don't need a hardware calibrator or such things, I just want a good monitor that have perfect color reproduction, also how to calibrate it properly.

You sure about that?  Do you edit and/or upload several hundred images a year?  What do you think about discovering in 5 years time that several thousand images you've edited were actually edited so as to induce a color caste in the images that was not visible on your personal monitor?

.

- Some folks state that web browsers and not color-managed, how can I know this? I almost use the latest version of Chrome.

Safari and FireFox are the most color managed web browsers in that they specifically reference the monitor ICC profile.  IE and Chrome to a lesser extent and with Chrome you may have to force color management with a custom command statement.  A recent post here states that the latest version of Chrome may not require this command line addition.

I use FireFox for general browsing and for photo sites, IE for my business MS Exchange support, and Chrome for Google cloud apps and Youtube.  Not only is FireFox color managed but I like how it automatically displays images with a dark gray background.

What do you see here - orange or purple car?  Try viewing with different browsers.

http://petapixel.com/2012/06/25/is-your-browser-color-managed/

http://cameratico.com/tools/web-browser-color-management-test/

.

- Lastly, with my current LED, I set contrast to 80 and brightness to 50, is this a bad calibration? When the monitor is on 70-75 brightness it causes to me eye-strain as too much light comes from it.

A lot of current monitors require a setting as low as 20% to get to a brightness of about 100 to 120 cd/m2 which is a good level for a room with a moderate amount of ambient light.  It's all about balance between the glaring spotlight of your monitor screen and the ambient light around your monitor that you can see in your field of view.

Paper Eyeball Technique
If you don't own a calibrator, here is a VERY ROUGH method of getting into the ballpark of the proper monitor brightness level for your room. It will only work if your room has a moderate to bright level of illumination.
A rough method of setting brightness is to grab a sheaf of white printer paper (several pages thick) and hold it up next to your monitor while it is displaying a white screen (full screen Notepad works well) and while the room has its' typical lighting used while you edit. If the paper looks brighter than your monitor, then your monitor is too dark. If the paper is darker, then the monitor is too bright or perhaps you need to increase the ambient lighting of the room. Imho, it is less than ideal to edit in a near pitch black room.
Most LCD monitors have a native color temperature somewhere near 6500K in order to have whites appear like they would in natural sunlight. Most people still use incandescent or CFL bulbs with a color temperature near 2800K for their room lighting.
Under this traditional lighting the reflected room light off the paper will, in comparison to the monitor screen, appear more yellow (warmer) and this may make you think it is a little darker. You may want to buy some 6000 to 6500K compact fluorescent bulbs, of equal lumen output, for the lighting in your room and use them while attempting this paper method. If these are too blue (cool) for day to day use in your editing room, 5000K bulbs may be the ideal compromise.

.

-- hide signature --

________________________
Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com
.

 NewsyL's gear list:NewsyL's gear list
Panasonic ZS100 Sony SLT-A77 +1 more
OP ilysaml Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: IPS Monitor Choice

NewsyL wrote:

- I'm currently looking into ASUS MX239H 23 inch AH-IPS because of the fast response time (5ms) so is this a true IPS monitor? What should I look at when purchasing an IPS monitor?

Yes it is a true IPS monitor.  The response time is a debateable point of knowledge.  How are they measuring it?  Mfg's have been known to stretch the truth on specs like this.  Regardless, it is not that important.

Only hardcore top echelon gamers think they need that low response time.  I game fairly seriously on my Dell U2412M with its' 8ms G2G screen and I think I do very well.  Top 100 on many FPS servers when I get serious about it.

You want a true IPS tft LCD screen.

First of all thanl you for taking the time and answer me with these valuable information.

So is this a good monitor, should I get it? I read somewhere that 5ms monitors aren't true 5ms monitor and usually range from 7-8ms response time, and that's typically what I can live with, I once had a 9ms HP LCD monitor, and I experienced lots of ghosts in FPS games and fast-action movies.

Bit depth - most IPS panel monitors under $400 USD and 24" or less use a 6bit+AFRC (Advanced Frame Rate Control) system to simulate an 8bit color depth of 16.7 million colors.  There are a few that are true 8bit but they are out of your budget range.  Higher bit depth means less issues with banding (posterization) in colour gradiants.  The reality is, and read the reviews to confirm this, the new 6bit+AFRC system is much better than the old 6bit+FRC so that bit depth issues such as banding and dark area artifacts are minimal.  Not quite as good as a current true 8bit, better than true 8bits from several years ago, but certainly adequate for someone like you, or me for that matter.

So basically a standard 6bit AFCR monitor is quite good for my intended usage?

Input Lag - sure the refresh rate is important for top echelon gaming but so is input lag.  Two of the best monitors for low input lag have IPS panels - the ASUS PA238Q (zero) and the Dell U2312HM (6ms).  The PA238Q is a true 8bit while the U2312HM is a 6bit+AFRC. However.... see the next category!!!

I've always wanted to go for a 120hz monitor for a more smooth gameplay, but sounds like i'll have to pay a fortune to get an IPS panel with 120hz, few monitors out there have such specs and they are quite expensive. So should i go for one of either, I'm not even sure that it's available here in my country, what does the Input Lag really affect?

Minimal Brightness - it is really important for editing images in a near pitch black roo that you have a monitor that can have its' Brightness adjusted down to or below 80 cd/m2 of white luminance (how we measure brightness with a hardware calibrator).  Due the perceptual vagueness of the human eye that allows it to be fooled easily, you have to balance your monitor brightness against the ambient lighting of the room and, in particular, the area within your field of vision when you're staring at your monitor.  If you don't, edited images can lead to issues such as "dark prints".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion

Unfortunately, as good as the PA238Q sounds, it is a bit too bright!  Its' minimal brightness with 0% on the control is about 86 cd/m2.  So you may have to have a light illuminating your viewing area. The U2312HM is about 114 cd/m2 at 0% on the Brightness control.  Usable if you have a moderate amount of ambient lighting but not good for a very dark room.

Many other current monitors can go as low as 40 cd/m2 at 0% Brightness.

.

I can see some monitors rated for 300/400 CD/M2, so does the monitor represnet so when it's fully 100% brightened? In daylight I don't have an ambient light and i use the monitor as is currently at brightness of 70% and contrast as 80% and it's kinda comfortable to my eyes but only at daylight.

At night i only lit the light for 2-3 hours in my room then completely shut it off, during this time I have difficulty concentrating so I reduce brightness to 50% or shut the light off, but when I have it down I put a small bulb behind my monitor to give me an ambient light around my desk so that my eyes don't get tired and feel the light from everywhere not only from the center where the monitor is.

- I see lots of debates between sRGB and Adobe RGB but don't know the difference, my monitor also have a sRGB mode but I'm always on the standard mode, what the difference between the two mentioned and what should I use?

Most people who calibrate their monitors do so in the "User" or "Custom" mode.  Different brands - different menu names for the option that allows access to all RGB sliders and uses the full native gamut of the monitor.

Wide gamut monitors supporting 100% coverage of the sRGB space and AdobeRGB space are a nightmare for people new to color management issues.

The Web is sRGB and most offsite commercial printers want you to supply the image in the sRGB space.  So sRGB is certainly adequate.  If you were a pro or someone who prints at home on a high end multi-ink wide gamut printer and shoots super colorful subjects on a regular basis, then you would likely want to consider a wide gamut monitor. But to use it effectively you would also need a good quality hardware calibrator - another $250 to $300 expenditure.

.

As I said above, I have a sRGB mode, it's very good for vision in accordance to brightness and contrast levels, so should I use it and leave the standard mode?

- I won't be printing my photos so I don't need a hardware calibrator or such things, I just want a good monitor that have perfect color reproduction, also how to calibrate it properly.

You sure about that?  Do you edit and/or upload several hundred images a year?  What do you think about discovering in 5 years time that several thousand images you've edited were actually edited so as to induce a color caste in the images that was not visible on your personal monitor?

.

I'm not getting you here, more sight on this is much appreciated.

- Some folks state that web browsers and not color-managed, how can I know this? I almost use the latest version of Chrome.

Safari and FireFox are the most color managed web browsers in that they specifically reference the monitor ICC profile.  IE and Chrome to a lesser extent and with Chrome you may have to force color management with a custom command statement.  A recent post here states that the latest version of Chrome may not require this command line addition.

I use FireFox for general browsing and for photo sites, IE for my business MS Exchange support, and Chrome for Google cloud apps and Youtube.  Not only is FireFox color managed but I like how it automatically displays images with a dark gray background.

What do you see here - orange or purple car?  Try viewing with different browsers.

http://petapixel.com/2012/06/25/is-your-browser-color-managed/

http://cameratico.com/tools/web-browser-color-management-test/

.

I use the latest chrome and Firefox browsers, both succeeded in the ICC V2 test and both failed in the ICC V4 test, everything else seems to be in place, except this;

The browser shows accurate colors of the vehicle but the sign above is represented in a dark magenta unlike the photos below which seems to be a bit glossy and oversaturated, what's wrong here?

- Lastly, with my current LED, I set contrast to 80 and brightness to 50, is this a bad calibration? When the monitor is on 70-75 brightness it causes to me eye-strain as too much light comes from it.

A lot of current monitors require a setting as low as 20% to get to a brightness of about 100 to 120 cd/m2 which is a good level for a room with a moderate amount of ambient light.  It's all about balance between the glaring spotlight of your monitor screen and the ambient light around your monitor that you can see in your field of view.

Ok, but won't it affect my pictures view? In another way, would a person using other monitor see a different color tone?

-- hide signature --

Ilysaml

Eric Carlson
Eric Carlson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,624
Re: IPS Monitor Choice

ilysaml wrote:

You sure about that?  Do you edit and/or upload several hundred images a year?  What do you think about discovering in 5 years time that several thousand images you've edited were actually edited so as to induce a color caste in the images that was not visible on your personal monitor?

.I'm not getting you here, more sight on this is much appreciated.

He's saying a a hardware calibrator is not (just) for printing. It is so that your monitor has accurate color and brightness, so that when you edit photos, they will also look correct on anyone else's calibrated display too. If you don't calibrate with a hardware calibrator, your edited photos might only look correct on your monitor.

And, the reverse is also true, if your monitor is not calibrated, then you might not be seeing other peoples photos correctly either.

 Eric Carlson's gear list:Eric Carlson's gear list
Olympus C-2100 UZ Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ20 Panasonic Lumix DMC-SZ7 Fujifilm XP80 Canon EOS 500D +1 more
OP ilysaml Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: IPS Monitor Choice

Eric Carlson wrote:

ilysaml wrote:

You sure about that?  Do you edit and/or upload several hundred images a year?  What do you think about discovering in 5 years time that several thousand images you've edited were actually edited so as to induce a color caste in the images that was not visible on your personal monitor?

.I'm not getting you here, more sight on this is much appreciated.

He's saying a a hardware calibrator is not (just) for printing. It is so that your monitor has accurate color and brightness, so that when you edit photos, they will also look correct on anyone else's calibrated display too. If you don't calibrate with a hardware calibrator, your edited photos might only look correct on your monitor.

And, the reverse is also true, if your monitor is not calibrated, then you might not be seeing other peoples photos correctly either.

Thank you for clarification, I won't be printing, I'm sure about this but i said in my first post that I want to calibrate my monitor for accurate color reproduction with certain software like Spyder Pro or nay other professional online tool. I don't have another $300 for a calibrator neither I want to print at least right now.

-- hide signature --

Ilysaml

Eric Carlson
Eric Carlson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,624
Re: IPS Monitor Choice

ilysaml wrote:

Eric Carlson wrote:

ilysaml wrote:

You sure about that?  Do you edit and/or upload several hundred images a year?  What do you think about discovering in 5 years time that several thousand images you've edited were actually edited so as to induce a color caste in the images that was not visible on your personal monitor?

.I'm not getting you here, more sight on this is much appreciated.

He's saying a a hardware calibrator is not (just) for printing. It is so that your monitor has accurate color and brightness, so that when you edit photos, they will also look correct on anyone else's calibrated display too. If you don't calibrate with a hardware calibrator, your edited photos might only look correct on your monitor.

And, the reverse is also true, if your monitor is not calibrated, then you might not be seeing other peoples photos correctly either.

Thank you for clarification, I won't be printing, I'm sure about this but i said in my first post that I want to calibrate my monitor for accurate color reproduction with certain software like Spyder Pro or nay other professional online tool. I don't have another $300 for a calibrator neither I want to print at least right now.

Spyder Pro requires the hardware. You can't properly calibrate without a hardware calibrator. And, as we said, whether or not you are printing is not really relevant.

Now, you don't necessarily need to calibrate to edit and share photos. If you are taking photos just to share what occurred, for example, some event, activity, or location you want to share, as opposed to sharing for artistic purposes, then it might not be relevant if the colors and contrast are particularly accurate.

For example, I have many thousands of robotics team photos that Heidi and I took on my web site (linked in my signature), and I don't have any calibrator, but the photos don't need to have particularly accurate color or contrast, because their purpose is to show what happened, not to convey photographic artistry.

 Eric Carlson's gear list:Eric Carlson's gear list
Olympus C-2100 UZ Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ20 Panasonic Lumix DMC-SZ7 Fujifilm XP80 Canon EOS 500D +1 more
jaz035 New Member • Posts: 10
Re: IPS Monitor Choice

What about Eizo Foris FS2333-BK , it maybe a bit out of Budget but it got some good reviews. If I may ask is there anyone who is using this model ? Thanks

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2012/review-eizo-foris-fs2333-bk.html

nofumble Senior Member • Posts: 2,112
Can you stretch your budget?

http://microcenter.com/product/384780/EQ276W_27-Inch_IPS_LED_Monitor,_WQHD_2560x1440,_HDMI,_DVI-D,_DisplayPort,_USB

I have a ASUS 23" TV - it sucks. I now use a Dell IPS U2412M (i think), a huge upgrade.

But check out the 27" at microcenter, and check the user review. It is made by LG who also make panel for Apple.

NewsyL
NewsyL Veteran Member • Posts: 5,736
Re: Can you stretch your budget?

nofumble wrote:

http://microcenter.com/product/384780/EQ276W_27-Inch_IPS_LED_Monitor,_WQHD_2560x1440,_HDMI,_DVI-D,_DisplayPort,_USB

I have a ASUS 23" TV - it sucks. I now use a Dell IPS U2412M (i think), a huge upgrade.

But check out the 27" at microcenter, and check the user review. It is made by LG who also make panel for Apple.

.

Sorry, Auria is NOT made by LG.  It is a "no name" Korean mfg, one of several who have recently come to market offering these 2560x1440 panels; it uses an IPS LCD panel supplied to Auria by "LG Display", formerly a joint venture of Philips and LG. It's parent company "LG Electronics" makes monitors and HDTV's amongst other products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Display

The Apple reference is worthless because pretty much 100% of all currently manufactured monitors with an IPS LCD panel in them source the IPS panel from LG Display.  Dell gets IPS panels from LG Display, ASUS does, as do HP, Hazro, Viewsonic, LG Electronics, etc etc.... and now for a real name dropper, so do NEC and EIZO.

If you want to imply a monitor is good because it uses the same panel as another premium brand, say that LG also makes panels for EIZO.  Although it is a decent monitor, the Apple has nothing on the EIZO CG series other than style and a populist brand name.

The Auria monitor and the others like it seem to be a good value but check the general warranty, the dead pixel warranty, and the options for after sales service.  It sounds like there are a lot of happy users out there of these "no name" Korean monitors but I have also read of users with dead units after several months and no recourse for service or replacement.

.

-- hide signature --

________________________
Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com
.

 NewsyL's gear list:NewsyL's gear list
Panasonic ZS100 Sony SLT-A77 +1 more
OP ilysaml Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: IPS Monitor Choice

Eric Carlson wrote:

Spyder Pro requires the hardware. You can't properly calibrate without a hardware calibrator. And, as we said, whether or not you are printing is not really relevant.

Now, you don't necessarily need to calibrate to edit and share photos. If you are taking photos just to share what occurred, for example, some event, activity, or location you want to share, as opposed to sharing for artistic purposes, then it might not be relevant if the colors and contrast are particularly accurate.

For example, I have many thousands of robotics team photos that Heidi and I took on my web site (linked in my signature), and I don't have any calibrator, but the photos don't need to have particularly accurate color or contrast, because their purpose is to show what happened, not to convey photographic artistry.

Good point here, thank you.

-- hide signature --

Ilysaml

OP ilysaml Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: Can you stretch your budget?

nofumble wrote:

http://microcenter.com/product/384780/EQ276W_27-Inch_IPS_LED_Monitor,_WQHD_2560x1440,_HDMI,_DVI-D,_DisplayPort,_USB

I have a ASUS 23" TV - it sucks. I now use a Dell IPS U2412M (i think), a huge upgrade.

But check out the 27" at microcenter, and check the user review. It is made by LG who also make panel for Apple.

I don't live in the USA neither Canada, and I have limited resources available here.

-- hide signature --

Ilysaml

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads