Windows 8 shocker

Started May 7, 2013 | Discussions
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malch OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,448
Re: You're making my point

digital ed wrote:

You have a choice and can set up to log in with a normal name. Don't know what the problem is.

Well, my copy insisted on an email address. It refused to accept a normal name and gave me no other choices.

Now, if you say there's an option to use a normal name, I can accept that one exists. However, such options are fairly useless if they cannot be easily found by a user with 40 years of computer experience.

The system gave me no hint that any other option was available -- I'd say it implied otherwise. So I didn't spend a whole lot of time looking for one.

In any event, it's done now so if one of you geniuses would care to explain to this moron in nice easy steps, how to change my user name from "foobar@live.com" to "anonymouse" I'd be very grateful. It's pretty easy, right?

digital ed
digital ed Veteran Member • Posts: 3,495
Re: You're making my point
3

malch wrote:

digital ed wrote:

You have a choice and can set up to log in with a normal name. Don't know what the problem is.

Well, my copy insisted on an email address. It refused to accept a normal name and gave me no other choices.

Now, if you say there's an option to use a normal name, I can accept that one exists. However, such options are fairly useless if they cannot be easily found by a user with 40 years of computer experience.

The system gave me no hint that any other option was available -- I'd say it implied otherwise. So I didn't spend a whole lot of time looking for one.

In any event, it's done now so if one of you geniuses would care to explain to this moron in nice easy steps, how to change my user name from "foobar@live.com" to "anonymouse" I'd be very grateful. It's pretty easy, right?

When creating an account choose "Sign in without a Microsoft account." On next screen choose "Local account." On next screen fill in name, password and password hint. That is all there is to it.

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malch OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,448
Re: You're making my point

digital ed wrote:

When creating an account choose "Sign in without a Microsoft account." On next screen choose "Local account." On next screen fill in name, password and password hint. That is all there is to it.

Okay. These were definitely not presented options during first-time setup.

malch OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,448
Re: You're making my point

malch wrote:

digital ed wrote:

When creating an account choose "Sign in without a Microsoft account." On next screen choose "Local account." On next screen fill in name, password and password hint. That is all there is to it.

Okay thanks. These were definitely not presented options during first-time setup.

skyglider Veteran Member • Posts: 4,443
Re: You're making my point

digital ed wrote:

When creating an account choose "Sign in without a Microsoft account." On next screen choose "Local account." On next screen fill in name, password and password hint. That is all there is to it.

For folks who might activate Win8 for the first time:

When I activated Win8 on my laptop, I used my MS hotmail account and it forced me to use an eight character (or more) password that had to contain a numeric.  Been that way ever since and I haven't found a way around it.  It appears to link Win8 to my hotmail account. .... I don't know what would happen if my hotmail account went kaput somehow.

When I activated Win8 on a friend's new Dell tower, I selected Local Account and was able to use any password I wanted with any character length, with no apparent link to MS.

Beware of this gottcha,
Sky

digital ed
digital ed Veteran Member • Posts: 3,495
Re: You're making my point
1

malch wrote:

digital ed wrote:

When creating an account choose "Sign in without a Microsoft account." On next screen choose "Local account." On next screen fill in name, password and password hint. That is all there is to it.

Okay. These were definitely not presented options during first-time setup.

They were there for me when I did first time setup.

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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,333
Not intutive

digital ed wrote:

malch wrote:

digital ed wrote:

When creating an account choose "Sign in without a Microsoft account." On next screen choose "Local account." On next screen fill in name, password and password hint. That is all there is to it.

Okay. These were definitely not presented options during first-time setup.

They were there for me when I did first time setup.

Logging in, setting up accounts, and many others things that first time users of Win 8 encounter are just not intuitive.

I thought this video that I watched for the first time recently was "right on", as it closes mirrors my first time figuring out how to even login to Win 8.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxmIsv88xO4

Perhaps MS changed it later (versus how it worked with the "Previews" that I tested), as I understand that simply pressing a key will get you to a login screen now.

But, I suspect that many users are still going to struggle trying to use their mouse to figure out what to click on to get to a login screen (not realizing that you need to scroll up from the bottom to get to the login part), and I didn't try to press anything on my keyboard when trying it (as that's just unintuitive compared to how you'd expect a modern OS to work).

Intuitive?  You've got to be joking.

When you see users that have decades of computer experience with a wide variety of operating systems having problems with basic issues trying to setup, login to, and use Win 8; that's a sign that Microsoft needs to "go back to the drawing board".

-- hide signature --

JimC
------

digital ed
digital ed Veteran Member • Posts: 3,495
Re: Not intutive

Jim Cockfield wrote:

digital ed wrote:

malch wrote:

digital ed wrote:

When creating an account choose "Sign in without a Microsoft account." On next screen choose "Local account." On next screen fill in name, password and password hint. That is all there is to it.

Okay. These were definitely not presented options during first-time setup.

They were there for me when I did first time setup.

Logging in, setting up accounts, and many others things that first time users of Win 8 encounter are just not intuitive.

I thought this video that I watched for the first time recently was "right on", as it closes mirrors my first time figuring out how to even login to Win 8.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxmIsv88xO4

Perhaps MS changed it later (versus how it worked with the "Previews" that I tested), as I understand that simply pressing a key will get you to a login screen now.

But, I suspect that many users are still going to struggle trying to use their mouse to figure out what to click on to get to a login screen (not realizing that you need to scroll up from the bottom to get to the login part), and I didn't try to press anything on my keyboard when trying it (as that's just unintuitive compared to how you'd expect a modern OS to work).

Intuitive?  You've got to be joking.

When you see users that have decades of computer experience with a wide variety of operating systems having problems with basic issues trying to setup, login to, and use Win 8; that's a sign that Microsoft needs to "go back to the drawing board".

-- hide signature --

JimC
------

I just do not get all this crying that the Win 8 GUI is not intuitive. Years ago when I started using the first Windows OS/GUI nothing was intuitive. We all learned quickly. When Apple came out with their first computer and OS, it was not intuitive, but we learned. By the way, I am a PC user and fumble around when today I have to use an Apple with their new GUIs. Very little intuitive for me in the Apple GUI. Same for Linux and I have built from MB up several Linux machines. I am not even going to mention Android tablets using ICS.

W/R to user name, what is not intuitive about plain English on the page? Unfortunately it takes a little personal thinking.

W/R to logon, it took me about 1 minute to figure out how to get to the logon. I just pushed the space bar.

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dradam Senior Member • Posts: 2,798
Re: You're making my point
1

digital ed wrote:

malch wrote:

digital ed wrote:

You have a choice and can set up to log in with a normal name. Don't know what the problem is.

Well, my copy insisted on an email address. It refused to accept a normal name and gave me no other choices.

Now, if you say there's an option to use a normal name, I can accept that one exists. However, such options are fairly useless if they cannot be easily found by a user with 40 years of computer experience.

The system gave me no hint that any other option was available -- I'd say it implied otherwise. So I didn't spend a whole lot of time looking for one.

In any event, it's done now so if one of you geniuses would care to explain to this moron in nice easy steps, how to change my user name from "foobar@live.com" to "anonymouse" I'd be very grateful. It's pretty easy, right?

When creating an account choose "Sign in without a Microsoft account." On next screen choose "Local account." On next screen fill in name, password and password hint. That is all there is to it.

Oh, stop it you.

Clearly 40 years of computer experience has not prepared him for such complex tasks.  You should count yourself lucky that you were able to stumble through.

dradam Senior Member • Posts: 2,798
Re: You're making my point
1

malch wrote:

digital ed wrote:

When creating an account choose "Sign in without a Microsoft account." On next screen choose "Local account." On next screen fill in name, password and password hint. That is all there is to it.

Okay. These were definitely not presented options during first-time setup.

I sometimes think you folks must be using an entirely different operating system than I am with some of your complaints.  This option was there for me when I first set up Windows 8 and, if I recall correctly, it was also there in the consumer preview.

malch OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,448
Re: You're making my point

dradam wrote:

I sometimes think you folks must be using an entirely different operating system than I am with some of your complaints.  This option was there for me when I first set up Windows 8 and, if I recall correctly, it was also there in the consumer preview.

Well, that's actually quite possible, if not likely.

First time setup on a pre-installed OEM version of Windows can be very different from a clean installation of a MS retail product.

dradam Senior Member • Posts: 2,798
Re: You're making my point

malch wrote:

dradam wrote:

I sometimes think you folks must be using an entirely different operating system than I am with some of your complaints.  This option was there for me when I first set up Windows 8 and, if I recall correctly, it was also there in the consumer preview.

Well, that's actually quite possible, if not likely.

First time setup on a pre-installed OEM version of Windows can be very different from a clean installation of a MS retail product.

That'd be one hell of a thing for the OEMs to change on you.

malch OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,448
Re: You're making my point

dradam wrote:

That'd be one hell of a thing for the OEMs to change on you.

Well, it's a one time process so I can't absolutely confirm. But a simplified setup wizard is typically what OEM's do.

Maybe the option was there. Again, I can't confirm but I really didn't want to use my email address. I went to the trouble of creating a brand new Live address which was something of a PITA. Do you really think I would have jumped through all those hoops if the local username option was staring me in the face?

MikeFromMesa Senior Member • Posts: 2,849
Re: Back at 0

greenmartini wrote:

I don't think they are pubically saying they were wrong but internally I think they have admitted to themselves the approach they took with Win 8 didn't work.

Yeah. You have got to wonder about job security for the guy(s) and gal(s) who made the decision to force desktop and laptop people into a touch-screen environment. I have it on my laptop and will definitely install an update that boots me back into the desktop and gives me back my start button.

"Progress", if that is what this is, is not always a positive thing ...

dradam Senior Member • Posts: 2,798
Re: You're making my point
1

malch wrote:

dradam wrote:

That'd be one hell of a thing for the OEMs to change on you.

Well, it's a one time process so I can't absolutely confirm. But a simplified setup wizard is typically what OEM's do.

Maybe the option was there. Again, I can't confirm but I really didn't want to use my email address. I went to the trouble of creating a brand new Live address which was something of a PITA. Do you really think I would have jumped through all those hoops if the local username option was staring me in the face?

To be honest, yes, I do.

The setup wizard is already mind numbingly simple and I honestly can't imagine an OEM "simplifying" it more by removing basic options (and, I honestly can't imagine that Microsoft would even allow them to do this).

For most every complaint about Windows 8 UI operation I see around here there is usually a very simple, straight forward solution (usually 2 or 3 of them) yet people seem completely unwilling to spend even minimal effort looking for or trying them.  I don't know if this is from some gut reaction to the new that makes peoples brains just shut down, if people actually WANT it to be harder just so they can have more ammo to backup their hatred of Windows 8, or if I am severely over estimating peoples computer abilities.

1w12q312qw1 Contributing Member • Posts: 732
Re: You're making my point
2

The setup wizard is already mind numbingly simple and I honestly can't imagine an OEM "simplifying" it more by removing basic options (and, I honestly can't imagine that Microsoft would even allow them to do this).

For most every complaint about Windows 8 UI operation I see around here there is usually a very simple, straight forward solution (usually 2 or 3 of them) yet people seem completely unwilling to spend even minimal effort looking for or trying them.  I don't know if this is from some gut reaction to the new that makes peoples brains just shut down, if people actually WANT it to be harder just so they can have more ammo to backup their hatred of Windows 8, or if I am severely over estimating peoples computer abilities.

You know, people would take you a little more seriously if you cut out the condescending attitude towards other forumers in most of your posts. You are "overestimating peoples computer abilities"????? What a pompass-a$$ thing to say to someone. And I don't care what kind of background you have, you are probably an "educated" idiot judging by your handle. You must belong to MENSA and your waste smells like lilacs, right?

Windows 8 was/is a disaster, it has ZERO curb-appeal, might be OK once you're inside, but as others have said, ones first reaction to something new is everything. There are TONS of computer-savvy experts in the media who say MS really shot themselves in the foot with 8, so all of these people must be maroons, too, according to you!

Tell me DrAdam - why in the heck is MS fixing and/or reinventing Windows 8 if it is as grande a UI as you say it is? Are they just doing it to pass the time of day? Are they doing it because 99% of computer users are low-IQ hacks as you state so categorically?

I'm sorry folks, I just can't stand condescension from anyone and this guy's posts are constantly putting down anyone who doesn't agree with him. He probably has a bunch of meaningless letters after his name and this allows him to look down upon us peons.

Have a nice day.

Stan

dradam Senior Member • Posts: 2,798
Re: You're making my point
2

1w12q312qw1 wrote:

The setup wizard is already mind numbingly simple and I honestly can't imagine an OEM "simplifying" it more by removing basic options (and, I honestly can't imagine that Microsoft would even allow them to do this).

For most every complaint about Windows 8 UI operation I see around here there is usually a very simple, straight forward solution (usually 2 or 3 of them) yet people seem completely unwilling to spend even minimal effort looking for or trying them.  I don't know if this is from some gut reaction to the new that makes peoples brains just shut down, if people actually WANT it to be harder just so they can have more ammo to backup their hatred of Windows 8, or if I am severely over estimating peoples computer abilities.

You know, people would take you a little more seriously if you cut out the condescending attitude towards other forumers in most of your posts. You are "overestimating peoples computer abilities"????? What a pompass-a$$ thing to say to someone. And I don't care what kind of background you have, you are probably an "educated" idiot judging by your handle. You must belong to MENSA and your waste smells like lilacs, right?

Look to yourself and your compatriots for condescending attitude and pompous security in the belief that THEIR way is the one true way.  I make no judgements about inexperienced or non-expert users (I would even include myself in the 2nd category), but yes, I do question the abilities of someone with "40 years of computer experience" that can't figure out how to create a new user without a Microsoft account starting at this screen:

HINT: If you read ALL the options you might find one you like

Windows 8 was/is a disaster, it has ZERO curb-appeal, might be OK once you're inside, but as others have said, ones first reaction to something new is everything. There are TONS of computer-savvy experts in the media who say MS really shot themselves in the foot with 8, so all of these people must be maroons, too, according to you!

Now who's being pompous towards those with a different opinion?

I am more than happy to talk about the shortcomings of Windows 8.  There are quite a few that they will hopefully address as the system matures. Unfortunately, to do so around here you have to wade through so many pages full of sensational bull and wrong/miss-information that being a dissenting opinion is more interesting.

Tell me DrAdam - why in the heck is MS fixing and/or reinventing Windows 8 if it is as grande a UI as you say it is? Are they just doing it to pass the time of day? Are they doing it because 99% of computer users are low-IQ hacks as you state so categorically?

When enough "experts" trip getting onto your new moving walkway that they start running around and scaring the general public away from it, you eventually you just turn the thing off.

I'm sorry folks, I just can't stand condescension from anyone and this guy's posts are constantly putting down anyone who doesn't agree with him. He probably has a bunch of meaningless letters after his name and this allows him to look down upon us peons.

I'm sorry I interrupted your little "victory" party.  Please don't feel the need to stop congratulating eachother about how awesomely right you all were on my account.

Have a nice day.

You too!

theswede
theswede Veteran Member • Posts: 3,936
Re: Not intutive

I just do not get all this crying that the Win 8 GUI is not intuitive.

It's not crying. It's the observation that the GUI has no visual cues for basic tasks. That is user unfriendly, and especially casual user and beginner unfriendly.

Years ago when I started using the first Windows OS/GUI nothing was intuitive.

Quite so. But the GUI contained visual cues how to use it. If you had no idea where to start, clicking the button named "start" might be a good idea, for example. And skeumorphic features on the application windows, consistency between applications and plain text in menus and dialogs made learning to get basic tasks done doable for pretty much anyone.

We all learned quickly. When Apple came out with their first computer and OS, it was not intuitive, but we learned.

Most people didn't. The Apple I did not sell all that many copies. The Apple II didn't really take off until the spreadsheet for it came out, and then it was mostly used as a spreadsheet machine, not as a general purpose computer.

Very few non-enthusiast and non-IT people used the OS'es on the pre-GUI machines for anything but typing in the names of the one or two applications they used.

By the way, I am a PC user and fumble around when today I have to use an Apple with their new GUIs. Very little intuitive for me in the Apple GUI.

If you are so stuck that you find clicking on an application to start it and clicking the red button on the top of the window to close it it's a wonder you get around in Windows even. The differences between OSX and Windows 7 for basic tasks are mainly cosmetic. It's only when you have to do administrative tasks that you find OSX only having one place for all of that compared to Windows having it spread out all over.

Same for Linux and I have built from MB up several Linux machines.

That's like saying "I drive a Ford so I don't find my way in European car design". Linux does not have a single GUI to talk about. Whether or not you use Gnome, KDE or some other major (or minor) GUI (with the exception of tiling ons like ratpoison) the basic tasks are done the same as in every other major GUI on the planet except Windows 8. Only when doing administration do tasks differ.

I am not even going to mention Android tablets using ICS.

What's so bad about it? Select an app to start it, push the close button to close it. No hidden hot corners, no swipes across the screen to get to basic things like the second app you started. Visual cues and skeumorphism abound, just like in all other major GUI's. Except Windows 8, of course.

W/R to user name, what is not intuitive about plain English on the page? Unfortunately it takes a little personal thinking.

If it takes a written description it is by definition not intuitive.

W/R to logon, it took me about 1 minute to figure out how to get to the logon. I just pushed the space bar.

That's one minute more than it should have taken. What's intuitive about sitting staring at a screen for one minute and then tentatively trying the space bar and being greeted by a reaction which there was no point in having to press a button to get?

Jesper

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Archer66 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,176
Re: You're making my point

dradam wrote:

For most every complaint about Windows 8 UI operation I see around here there is usually a very simple, straight forward solution (usually 2 or 3 of them) yet people seem completely unwilling to spend even minimal effort looking for or trying them.

Its just much more popular to bash Win 8.

Just ignore them and move on.

Archer66 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,176
Re: Not intutive

theswede wrote:

I am not even going to mention Android tablets using ICS.

What's so bad about it? Select an app to start it, push the close button to close it. No hidden hot corners, no swipes across the screen to get to basic things like the second app you started. Visual cues and skeumorphism abound, just like in all other major GUI's. Except Windows 8, of course.

Clearly you havent used any Android tablets. I'm regretting my decision to upgrade my tablet from 3.2 to 4.0.

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