Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

Started Apr 30, 2013 | Discussions
camerashy Veteran Member • Posts: 3,503
Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

Could someone please help me with some paper types.

I know what High Gloss and Gloss papers look like but is Lustre like a Semi Gloss or partially shiny surface and what type of prints would look best on Lustre.

With matte papers are these the Fine Art grades like Canson Platine or Innova Smooth Cotton. and would a Baryta paper be a Gloss??

thanks

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Hugowolf Forum Pro • Posts: 12,674
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss
3

camerashy wrote:

Could someone please help me with some paper types.

I know what High Gloss and Gloss papers look like but is Lustre like a Semi Gloss or partially shiny surface and what type of prints would look best on Lustre.

They are not well defined terms, one paper company's lustre could be another's semi gloss. They are usually gloss papers with some micro stipple to make them less glossy. In order of glossiness, probably something like:

Pearl
Lustre
Satin
Semi-gloss
Semi-matte

They are all RC papers (resin coated = plastic coated), and therefore use photo black.

What images work with them depends on you, your sensibilities, and your image. In short: anything you want.

With matte papers are these the Fine Art grades like Canson Platine

Canson Platine Fibre is a baryta coated cotton rag. If it were an RC paper, it would be called lustre/pearl/satin. It uses photo black too, because of the surface.

or Innova Smooth Cotton.

Innova Smooth cotton is smoth cotton rag. It is perfectly matte. It would use MK.

and would a Baryta paper be a Gloss??

Baryta papers aren't really fine art papers, although some paper companies like placing them in that category. A baryta paper can be anything from the full soft gloss of Harman Gloss Baryta and Gloss Baryta Warmtone, to the lustre like surfaces of Museo Silver Rag, Canson Baryta Photographique, Epson Exhibition Fibre (Epson Trad Photo Paper in Eurpoe), and Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta. They use gloss ink (ie photo black), and are sometimes put in a 'gloss' category because of this.

In general they fall into the category, of what was known in the darkroom as fibre papers.

Why don't you buy some sample packs and see for yourself:

http://www.itsupplies.com/Samples
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Type%2fStyle_Sampler&ci=1118&N=4077634583+4294954869

Brian A

HASHI1127 Regular Member • Posts: 377
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

Hi Brian,

Very good explanation.

Best regards,

GUS.

Timein Forum Member • Posts: 70
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

Great explanation. I found your information very helpful. Thanks for taking the time. Steve

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Hugowolf Forum Pro • Posts: 12,674
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

Timein wrote:

Great explanation. I found your information very helpful. Thanks for taking the time. Steve

You are welcome, thanks for reading, Gus and Timein:

Paper nomenclature is really murky, varying with distance from the source. It is what should be a simple area, complicated by marketing, history, and region of origin.

You have Traditional fine art paper companies like Hahnemühle producing inkjet receptive papers, and grouped fine art paper companies running under the Canson-Infinity brand: Arches, Rives, and Canson. Arches and Rives are also part of the Anglo-French ArjoWiggins group, where the Arjo acronym comes from Arches, Johannot, Marais, and Rives. So you have differences in terminology from England, Germany, and France.

You also have different terminology from traditional photo paper makers; companies like Kodak and Ilford, with terms like E surface (lustre/satin/pearl) and F surface (gloss)

And given the origins of the stuff, it is hard to dismiss the influence of huge Japanese manufacturers like Mitsubishi, who make most of the metallic inkjet papers, and have their own line of fine art and photo papers under the Italianate name of Pictorico.

Then you have printer companies like Canon, Espon, and HP, who market and rename papers under their own brand and own names.

For example, St Cuthbert’s Mill, in Somerset, England, makes almost all the cotton inkjet papers with the words Velvet and Somerset in them: Epson Velvet Fine Art, Epson Somerset Velvet, Moab Somerset Enhanced Velvet, Moab Somerset Museum Rag, Moab Somerset Photo, and Canon Fine Art Enhanced Velvet. Exceptions might be Breathing Color Elegance Velvet Platinum and Pura Velvet – Breathing Color claim to make their own paper.
http://www.stcuthbertsmill.com/

THe Wikipedia article on wet process photo papers is a good place to start for the differences between RC and baryta papers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_paper

Brian A

OP camerashy Veteran Member • Posts: 3,503
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

Brian, thank you so much for your detailed explanation, which has really helped me, and hopefully other new users too. I have copied it and will use it as future reference.

the info. on paper companies is also very interesting thanks for your time and trouble in explaining this 'minefield'!!

dave

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JJ Winkel Senior Member • Posts: 1,387
Very useful and bookmarked ....

Brian, you should write an article here.

Thks.

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JJ.

kenwj Contributing Member • Posts: 573
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

Terrific info with one correction.  Canson Platine is not a Baryta paper.  It is coated with a pulverized white silicon sand (called carbon white).  Lovely stuff.  It is formulated to give B&W a touch of a platinum print look.  Neutral with a slight red lift in the highlights that gives the highlights a warm "buttery" look.  Worth a try.

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Hugowolf Forum Pro • Posts: 12,674
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

kenwj wrote:

Terrific info with one correction.  Canson Platine is not a Baryta paper.  It is coated with a pulverized white silicon sand (called carbon white).  Lovely stuff.  It is formulated to give B&W a touch of a platinum print look.  Neutral with a slight red lift in the highlights that gives the highlights a warm "buttery" look.  Worth a try.

I have always wondered about Platine. I know that Canson/Arches have been instrumental in the use of mineral dusts to whiten papers without the use of OBSs. Canson's own statement on the paper is pretty ambiguous:

"Platine Fibre Rag provides the aesthetic and feel of the original F-Type Baryta Fibre paper, having a true pure white tone without using optical brighteners that are known to affect the longevity of digitally produced images."

I would be interested to sort this out; do you have a source for it not being Baryta?

Brian A

kenwj Contributing Member • Posts: 573
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

"The Luminous Landscape" site

Product reviews under C.

"The Paper That Almost Got Away, Canson Platine." near the end of the Cs.

After reading that article click on the link below for the Mike Heckler review of the paper on Wyofoto.

Two very good reviews of the paper.

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Hugowolf Forum Pro • Posts: 12,674
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

kenwj wrote:

"The Luminous Landscape" site

Product reviews under C.

"The Paper That Almost Got Away, Canson Platine." near the end of the Cs.

After reading that article click on the link below for the Mike Heckler review of the paper on Wyofoto.

Two very good reviews of the paper.

OK, I had read both of these a while back, and in rereading, I still don't see anything on the composition of the paper - perhaps I missed it.

I use Canson-Infinity Platine Fibre Rag. I have used it since the problems with Crane-Museo Silver Rag. I haven't use Arches Platine for a long, long while; so I don't remember the surface. Arches Platine is an 'uncoated' paper often used for Platinum/Palladium wet process prints.

I am still dubious, that without something more definite, there isn’t a baryta layer on Canson Platine Fibre Rag.

Brian A

kenwj Contributing Member • Posts: 573
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

It's in the Mike Heckler article.  Fine sand (carbon white) base.

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Hugowolf Forum Pro • Posts: 12,674
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

kenwj wrote:

It's in the Mike Heckler article.  Fine sand (carbon white) base.

I wonder what his source is? I have heard of white carbon black being used in paper as a whitener, but not as a top coating. Cason seem quite secretive about the process.

Brian A

kenwj Contributing Member • Posts: 573
Re: Paper Differences - Lustre/Semi Gloss

Based upon all the charts and graphs this guy seems to be into this in a very big way.  I wouldn't be surprised if he had an inside line to Canson.

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