My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Started Apr 29, 2013 | Discussions
tt321
tt321 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,767
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Anders W wrote:

Vasyl's post reminded me that there was one thing I forgot to include in my "how to" post, namely the instructions on filter cutting. I guessed correctly that such instructions must be included in the manual for the 8 mm fisheye that you find here:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/HF008-MUL.PDF

But for those who don't want to take the trouble of downloading the manual, here's how to do it:

1. Cut a square where each side is 21.5 to 22 mm.

2. Cut off each corner such that you remove 3 mm from each side.

In addition to that, let me also correct one sentence from my "how to" post where a link to Tiffen that I meant to insert disappeared. The sentence should read:

For those interested, gel filters are available from Tiffen (under Kodak's brand name).

Fascinating thread and very good work as usual.

I've not seen a gel filter in my life, so have a naive question. Are gel filters really made of gel in the narrow sense - i.e. gelatin (from animals for e.g.) or some kind of plastic?

OP Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

tt321 wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Vasyl's post reminded me that there was one thing I forgot to include in my "how to" post, namely the instructions on filter cutting. I guessed correctly that such instructions must be included in the manual for the 8 mm fisheye that you find here:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/HF008-MUL.PDF

But for those who don't want to take the trouble of downloading the manual, here's how to do it:

1. Cut a square where each side is 21.5 to 22 mm.

2. Cut off each corner such that you remove 3 mm from each side.

In addition to that, let me also correct one sentence from my "how to" post where a link to Tiffen that I meant to insert disappeared. The sentence should read:

For those interested, gel filters are available from Tiffen (under Kodak's brand name).

Fascinating thread and very good work as usual.

I've not seen a gel filter in my life, so have a naive question. Are gel filters really made of gel in the narrow sense - i.e. gelatin (from animals for e.g.) or some kind of plastic?

Historically, they actually used gelatin. Nowadays, it's one or other kind of plastic. The Kodak 2A filter I landed on the bay may be pretty historic but I am not sure it's historic enough to qualify as a "real gel".

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Michael J Davis
Michael J Davis Veteran Member • Posts: 3,603
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Michael J Davis
Michael J Davis Veteran Member • Posts: 3,603
Thanks Anders...

.. a brilliant solution to an interesting problem!

I should say two problems..

1. Reduction in purple flare, and

2. Application of filters to the 7-14.

I'm not sure that I have the courage to do it. But will certainly think about it.

My main question is how on earth does one get a 22mm square of filter into the slot without ruining the iq with fingermarks?

Thanks again

Mike

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OP Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: Thanks Anders...

Michael J Davis wrote:

.. a brilliant solution to an interesting problem!

I should say two problems..

1. Reduction in purple flare, and

2. Application of filters to the 7-14.

I'm not sure that I have the courage to do it. But will certainly think about it.

At this stage, I think you definitely dare to do it.

My main question is how on earth does one get a 22mm square of filter into the slot without ruining the iq with fingermarks?

Now, that's a third and very interesting problem. What I have learned so far is that gel filters (at least the presumably old Kodak filter I bought on ebay) are just as sensitive to everything as they are reported to be. When, for example, I tried to wipe off a little bit of smudge at one edge, my Pecpad nonabrasive wipes turned out to be anything but nonabrasive.

But no, it's not all that difficult to get the filter in place. I used a pair of tweezers to lift it up and insert it a bit so that it was on the right track. I then helped it along with my fingers very gently touching the sharp edge of the filter on each side and then pushed a bit with the tweezers again at the end.

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OP Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Rick Baumhauer wrote:

Now this is tempting! Since I have a G5 just to mount the 7-14 on (and maybe a little bit of video work), and a 'spare' OM-D that just sits in the bag most days, this looks like it would be worth investigating.

At least I think it's worth a try. After all, the filter with holder is a whole lot lighter and smaller than an extra body just to shoot the 7-14.

Thanks for all the work you've put in to finding the root of the issue, tracking down the Wratten 2A and testing it, and now coming up with this comprehensive solution!

You are welcome Rick!

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Michael J Davis
Michael J Davis Veteran Member • Posts: 3,603
Re: Thanks Anders...

Anders W wrote:

Michael J Davis wrote:

.. a brilliant solution to an interesting problem!

I should say two problems..

1. Reduction in purple flare, and

2. Application of filters to the 7-14.

I'm not sure that I have the courage to do it. But will certainly think about it.

At this stage, I think you definitely dare to do it.

My main question is how on earth does one get a 22mm square of filter into the slot without ruining the iq with fingermarks?

Now, that's a third and very interesting problem. What I have learned so far is that gel filters (at least the presumably old Kodak filter I bought on ebay) are just as sensitive to everything as they are reported to be. When, for example, I tried to wipe off a little bit of smudge at one edge, my Pecpad nonabrasive wipes turned out to be anything but nonabrasive.

But no, it's not all that difficult to get the filter in place. I used a pair of tweezers to lift it up and insert it a bit so that it was on the right track. I then helped it along with my fingers very gently touching the sharp edge of the filter on each side and then pushed a bit with the tweezers again at the end.

Umm - thanks! And another bit of equipment to stash in the camera bag! (and lose!)

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herebefore
herebefore Veteran Member • Posts: 3,296
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Historically, they actually used gelatin. Nowadays, it's one or other kind of plastic. The Kodak 2A filter I landed on the bay may be pretty historic but I am not sure it's historic enough to qualify as a "real gel".

The last "Real Gelatin Filters" I ever handled were used in the early 1960s, when I was working in a "summer stock" theater in Connecticut.

The problem with "real Gels" was they didnt handle high humidity very well... I have seen one turn "semi-liquid" on a really humid day, and plop onto the stage in a glob during a performance....

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Larry Lynch
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OP Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

herebefore wrote:


Historically, they actually used gelatin. Nowadays, it's one or other kind of plastic. The Kodak 2A filter I landed on the bay may be pretty historic but I am not sure it's historic enough to qualify as a "real gel".

The last "Real Gelatin Filters" I ever handled were used in the early 1960s, when I was working in a "summer stock" theater in Connecticut.

The problem with "real Gels" was they didnt handle high humidity very well... I have seen one turn "semi-liquid" on a really humid day, and plop onto the stage in a glob during a performance....

Thanks for helping us put things into proper historic perspective. Sounds like exciting times back then ... but it seems like "real gel filters" is not necessarily something we want back. 

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herebefore
herebefore Veteran Member • Posts: 3,296
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Anders W wrote:

herebefore wrote:


Historically, they actually used gelatin. Nowadays, it's one or other kind of plastic. The Kodak 2A filter I landed on the bay may be pretty historic but I am not sure it's historic enough to qualify as a "real gel".

The last "Real Gelatin Filters" I ever handled were used in the early 1960s, when I was working in a "summer stock" theater in Connecticut.

The problem with "real Gels" was they didnt handle high humidity very well... I have seen one turn "semi-liquid" on a really humid day, and plop onto the stage in a glob during a performance....

Thanks for helping us put things into proper historic perspective. Sounds like exciting times back then ... but it seems like "real gel filters" is not necessarily something we want back. 

I know I wouldn't want one on my lens....They were sticky, nasty stuff to work with if your fingers got moist at all..

Stage Directors, Lighting people, and Directors WENT NUTS with the plastic "gels"... claiming they weren't the proper colors for a couple of years, (they faded in a short time under the heat of the lights, but it all settled down once the color "disparity" was worked out.. when polyester and polycarbonate started to be used as the base material.

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rrr_hhh Veteran Member • Posts: 6,023
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

jeffharris wrote:

I think the petal shape is to cut down on weight. Or maybe it's just a fashionable thing.

Petal shaped hoods are so to avoid vignetting in the corners. You see them nonly for wide angle lenses where vignetting is more problematic.

The lens cap that came with my 100-300mm is a cone shape with no side notches.

Usual, for longer lenses vignetting is much less problematic.

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rrr_hhh

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Phil Senior Member • Posts: 1,045
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Anders, thanks for the work on this.  I import RAW into LR with CA corrected, so don't see muich of that.  I have had afew of the "purple blobs" with this lens and the OMD.  I understand the UV filter concept and the fact that a filter on the 7-14 and fisheye is a pain.  This is no.

I do suggest using Vasyl's approach and simply triming the flange slightly with a utility knife.  Flawless approach and much simpler than cutting a shim.  Very easy for even my clumsiness.

The whole operation took less than 10 minutes and like you, I will just leave it in place.  Now I can go from really liking this lens to loving it.  It does take great pictues, but needs a little more UV filter.  Funny, I have some old 2A filters, but importing with CA on takes care of everything except the UWA puple issues under certain backlight.

Thanks again for all the help.  You too Vasyl.

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Phil

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OP Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Phil wrote:

Anders, thanks for the work on this. I import RAW into LR with CA corrected, so don't see muich of that. I have had afew of the "purple blobs" with this lens and the OMD. I understand the UV filter concept and the fact that a filter on the 7-14 and fisheye is a pain. This is no.

I do suggest using Vasyl's approach and simply triming the flange slightly with a utility knife. Flawless approach and much simpler than cutting a shim. Very easy for even my clumsiness.

The whole operation took less than 10 minutes and like you, I will just leave it in place. Now I can go from really liking this lens to loving it. It does take great pictues, but needs a little more UV filter. Funny, I have some old 2A filters, but importing with CA on takes care of everything except the UWA puple issues under certain backlight.

Thanks again for all the help. You too Vasyl.

Glad to hear you are making use of this solution to the purple flare problem. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, it's quite possible that Vasyl's method (cutting off a little bit) is as good or better than my method (a shim) when it comes to mounting the filter holder.

As far as CA is concerned, a fringe benefit of the 2A filter is that it actually helps a bit against that too, even if you import into LR with the "Remove Chromatic Aberration" checkbox checked. As you can see from several recent threads on the forum, e.g., this

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51600715

and this

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51786560

a 2A pretty much eliminates the residual purple fringing that remains after checking the LR CA checkbox, especially with Pany lenses on the E-M5 (or other Oly body).

The 7-14 is no exception to that rule. As I could recently see for myself, when I temporarily removed the 2A for a few test shots, the 7-14, just like other Pany lenses, has some residual PF even after checking the LR CA box and the filter pretty much eliminates that.

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Najinsky Veteran Member • Posts: 5,739
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Anders W wrote:

As far as CA is concerned, a fringe benefit ...

Did you really just do that? I can't work out whether to cheer wildly or throw tomatoes.

Either way, nice wordplay!

-Najinsky

OP Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Najinsky wrote:

Anders W wrote:

As far as CA is concerned, a fringe benefit ...

Did you really just do that? I can't work out whether to cheer wildly or throw tomatoes.

Either way, nice wordplay!

I guess that was what they call a Freudian slip (or something like that). But it does work out, doesn't it. Great with fringe benefits.

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Abrak Veteran Member • Posts: 4,169
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end
1

I am glad this thread has been bumped. A couple of days ago I took some shots using a Wratten gel ND filter on the back of the 7-14 following the addition of the back filter holder as per Anders suggestion.

The first was taken with a 7 stop ND filter....

7 stop ND filter

The second on a brighter day with 2x 7 stop ND filters.....

2x 7 stop ND filter

Both these shots were taken @7mm...

The second shot is something of a cliche but I do like the effect of the ultra-wide - those rocks are in fact relatively small stones.

cmpatti Regular Member • Posts: 254
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Abrak,

What ND filters are you using and where did you find them?

Thanks

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Abrak Veteran Member • Posts: 4,169
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

cmpatti wrote:

Abrak,

What ND filters are you using and where did you find them?

Thanks

Well I bought the ND gel filter off ebay. Mine is a Kodak Wratten filter which seems to be the most common. They have a vaguely odd way of numbering the ND - neither by stop or by 'X'.

I bought an ND '2' which is the equivalent to about 7 stops. Each stop is approximately 0.3 so that an ND 3 would be equivalent to 10 stops. Wratten gel ND filters are easy to find on ebay but they are largely limited to 1-3 stops i.e. 0.3 to 0.9.

The ND '2' (7 stop) that I have works pretty well - you can even double up on the gel and have 14 stops.

OP Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Abrak wrote:

I am glad this thread has been bumped. A couple of days ago I took some shots using a Wratten gel ND filter on the back of the 7-14 following the addition of the back filter holder as per Anders suggestion.

The first was taken with a 7 stop ND filter....

7 stop ND filter

The second on a brighter day with 2x 7 stop ND filters.....

2x 7 stop ND filter

Both these shots were taken @7mm...

The second shot is something of a cliche but I do like the effect of the ultra-wide - those rocks are in fact relatively small stones.

Cliché or not, these are both really nicely done in my opinion. I love the bridge in the first one with its irregularity in the middle of this very orderly and regular composition. Perfect. Where did you find these scenes?

And how did you handle the filter swapping in practice. Did you prepare the stuff already at home or did you fiddle with it out in the field? And did you have any trouble loading two filters into the holder as you apparently did for the second shot?

At any rate, it's nice to see the holder being put to good use even for purposes other than purple-flare or purple-fringing elimination.

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Albert Ang Regular Member • Posts: 254
Re: My 7-14 takes filters ... at the rear end

Abrak wrote:

Well I bought the ND gel filter off ebay. Mine is a Kodak Wratten filter which seems to be the most common. They have a vaguely odd way of numbering the ND - neither by stop or by 'X'.

I bought an ND '2' which is the equivalent to about 7 stops. Each stop is approximately 0.3 so that an ND 3 would be equivalent to 10 stops. Wratten gel ND filters are easy to find on ebay but they are largely limited to 1-3 stops i.e. 0.3 to 0.9.

The ND '2' (7 stop) that I have works pretty well - you can even double up on the gel and have 14 stops.

Abrak, my question is the same as Anders. How do you find handling the filter? Did you change the filter in the field? Did you find it cumbersome?

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