Camera System?

Started Apr 29, 2013 | Discussions
Footski
MOD Footski Senior Member • Posts: 2,172
Re: Camera System?

Guys,

I have deleted a few threads which were posted and became inflammatory. I am sure those involved know who they are and why I have taken the action I have. Abuse of members and implied bad language will not be tolerated. Let us please leave it at that and enjoy the forum.

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123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

Hank3152 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Sure, but the facts that some or the cameras are capable of doing things that the others are not capable of, remains. For instance, the SLTs remain the only ones that handle auto focus during video properly. They also are the only ones that shoot at 10+ fps for under $1k, ...........

I've also read from more than one owner on these forums where the keeper rate when shooting at 10fps is not very good because of the AF system not being able keep up with the frame rate and 3 or 4 of those shots are out of focus.........ya get what ya pay for......

This is not true. It keeps up just fine. How high does your camera go? I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions. But I also use it when I want a good action shots of the kids or the dog running around. I think it's pretty good for $399. You'd have to spend triple that if want to match it. And even then, it'd be a contest.

Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,837
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

123Mike wrote:

Hank3152 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Sure, but the facts that some or the cameras are capable of doing things that the others are not capable of, remains. For instance, the SLTs remain the only ones that handle auto focus during video properly. They also are the only ones that shoot at 10+ fps for under $1k, ...........

I've also read from more than one owner on these forums where the keeper rate when shooting at 10fps is not very good because of the AF system not being able keep up with the frame rate and 3 or 4 of those shots are out of focus.........ya get what ya pay for......

This is not true. It keeps up just fine. How high does your camera go? I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions. But I also use it when I want a good action shots of the kids or the dog running around. I think it's pretty good for $399. You'd have to spend triple that if want to match it. And even then, it'd be a contest.

Mike, you're talking to a person with experience and used to own if I remember correctly a Canon 1D.

Do you truly believe you will make a point rehashing you own an A57?

The A57 is a nice camera but no more or less.

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Cheers Mike

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joejack951 Senior Member • Posts: 2,682
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........
1

123Mike wrote:

Hank3152 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Sure, but the facts that some or the cameras are capable of doing things that the others are not capable of, remains. For instance, the SLTs remain the only ones that handle auto focus during video properly. They also are the only ones that shoot at 10+ fps for under $1k, ...........

I've also read from more than one owner on these forums where the keeper rate when shooting at 10fps is not very good because of the AF system not being able keep up with the frame rate and 3 or 4 of those shots are out of focus.........ya get what ya pay for......

I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions.

Helps overcome crappy lighting conditions? Please explain.

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Bjorn_L
Bjorn_L Veteran Member • Posts: 5,770
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

123Mike wrote:

I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions.

My camera must be a little primitive since when I shoot in poor lighting at 8fps the light level remains unchanged.  What works for me is adding light (a flash or two).

How did you arrive at the above conclusion?

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See my plan (in my profile) for what I shoot with. See my gallery for images I find amusing.

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Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,837
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

joejack951 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Hank3152 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Sure, but the facts that some or the cameras are capable of doing things that the others are not capable of, remains. For instance, the SLTs remain the only ones that handle auto focus during video properly. They also are the only ones that shoot at 10+ fps for under $1k, ...........

I've also read from more than one owner on these forums where the keeper rate when shooting at 10fps is not very good because of the AF system not being able keep up with the frame rate and 3 or 4 of those shots are out of focus.........ya get what ya pay for......

I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions.

Helps overcome crappy lighting conditions? Please explain.

If you shoot a gig with constantly changing light I see a point.

But your metering has to keep up with your burst as well.

But I would spot meter and shoot one at a time.

For low light in general this doesn't make any sense to me to shoot high bursts.

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Cheers Mike

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Rich Rosen Senior Member • Posts: 2,477
Re: Camera System? Nikon of course!!

Well we all know that Nikon is better. Don't let the Canon fanboys tell you different. Nikon has the best lenses, the best cameras, the best accessories....the best of everything!!!

Rich

My equipment: D3, D600, D1x; 17-35, 28-70, 70-200, 50 1.8G, 85 1.4, 70-300 VR, 24-120 f4, 10.5 fisheye, 12-24  f4. All Nikon!;-)

PS:  Both systems are pretty extensive and are designed for all  types of photography. I chose Nikon 19 years ago because of  ergonomics, lenses, and its reputation. You can't go wrong with either system. For you to make this decision, you have got handle the equipment, to see which fits your needs, and comfort.

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MrScorpio
MrScorpio Senior Member • Posts: 1,413
I prefer Canon, but you cannot get wrong neither way!!
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david01234 Regular Member • Posts: 124
Re: Camera System?
1

What criteria do we apply in determining the better camera system?

Market leader?

Widest selection of camera bodies, lenses?

Customer support?

Availability of third party support for lenses, accessories, etc?

Used or second hand market?

In the end, does it really matter? An individual has his own set of criteria which will be different from another person.

Nothing new about an X brand fanboy favoring his brand.

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123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions.

Helps overcome crappy lighting conditions? Please explain.

For instance, indoor photos without flash, at ISO 400 (which I don't want to raise any further) it might call for 1/40s. That's a little slow to ensure a non blurry image. So, I burst like 5 - 15 photos, in the hopes that a couple of them end up turning out sharp. This often works. Slower than 1/40 even.

Another example. My crappy telelens needs too much stopping down to become sharp. Same deal. I can afford to use a slightly slower shutter speed because having many photos I get a better chance of success.

123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

Bjorn_L wrote:

123Mike wrote:

I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions.

My camera must be a little primitive since when I shoot in poor lighting at 8fps the light level remains unchanged.  What works for me is adding light (a flash or two).

How did you arrive at the above conclusion?

I should have explained. I didn't use the right words. With lighting conditions, I meant, when there is not enough light to achieve a good quality photo. Instead of raising ISO, I burst a bunch of shots. Usually a few end up turning out sharp.

Bjorn_L
Bjorn_L Veteran Member • Posts: 5,770
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

123Mike wrote:

Bjorn_L wrote:

123Mike wrote:

I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions.

My camera must be a little primitive since when I shoot in poor lighting at 8fps the light level remains unchanged.  What works for me is adding light (a flash or two).

How did you arrive at the above conclusion?

I should have explained. I didn't use the right words. With lighting conditions, I meant, when there is not enough light to achieve a good quality photo. Instead of raising ISO, I burst a bunch of shots. Usually a few end up turning out sharp.

That would not work since the EVs would remain unchanged for the burst.  What is more bursting in good light the a57's focus system can't keep up.  The focus system slows down and misses even more as light drops.  Not unique to the a57 most cameras struggle there.

The way to get good photos in poor light is to either add light or expose correctly for existing light.

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123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

Bjorn_L wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Bjorn_L wrote:

123Mike wrote:

I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions.

My camera must be a little primitive since when I shoot in poor lighting at 8fps the light level remains unchanged.  What works for me is adding light (a flash or two).

How did you arrive at the above conclusion?

I should have explained. I didn't use the right words. With lighting conditions, I meant, when there is not enough light to achieve a good quality photo. Instead of raising ISO, I burst a bunch of shots. Usually a few end up turning out sharp.

That would not work since the EVs would remain unchanged for the burst.  What is more bursting in good light the a57's focus system can't keep up.  The focus system slows down and misses even more as light drops.  Not unique to the a57 most cameras struggle there.

The way to get good photos in poor light is to either add light or expose correctly for existing light.

It's not about exposure, but about trying to get a sharp photo, is what I meant. It's hard to get a photo come out sharp at 1/40 or slower. A percentage of photos succeed if you happen to hold the camera still and when the toddler happens to hold his head still. But when I do this 20 times, a few come out ok.

joejack951 Senior Member • Posts: 2,682
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

123Mike wrote:

Bjorn_L wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Bjorn_L wrote:

123Mike wrote:

I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions.

My camera must be a little primitive since when I shoot in poor lighting at 8fps the light level remains unchanged.  What works for me is adding light (a flash or two).

How did you arrive at the above conclusion?

I should have explained. I didn't use the right words. With lighting conditions, I meant, when there is not enough light to achieve a good quality photo. Instead of raising ISO, I burst a bunch of shots. Usually a few end up turning out sharp.

That would not work since the EVs would remain unchanged for the burst.  What is more bursting in good light the a57's focus system can't keep up.  The focus system slows down and misses even more as light drops.  Not unique to the a57 most cameras struggle there.

The way to get good photos in poor light is to either add light or expose correctly for existing light.

It's not about exposure, but about trying to get a sharp photo, is what I meant. It's hard to get a photo come out sharp at 1/40 or slower. A percentage of photos succeed if you happen to hold the camera still and when the toddler happens to hold his head still. But when I do this 20 times, a few come out ok.

Ok, so the issue you are overcoming isn't focusing in low light or noise as a result of high ISO but camera shake as a result of low ISO/small aperture. It also follows then that you must be shooting static subjects as I don't know of any "action" shot that would look sharp at 1/40" or less.

In that scenario, a high burst rate with a stuttering viewfinder is probably manageable.

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Chris R-UK Forum Pro • Posts: 18,765
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

I tend to use short bursts for group photos in the hope that you get one where nobody is blinking!

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Chris R

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123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

It's not about exposure, but about trying to get a sharp photo, is what I meant. It's hard to get a photo come out sharp at 1/40 or slower. A percentage of photos succeed if you happen to hold the camera still and when the toddler happens to hold his head still. But when I do this 20 times, a few come out ok.

Ok, so the issue you are overcoming isn't focusing in low light or noise as a result of high ISO but camera shake as a result of low ISO/small aperture. It also follows then that you must be shooting static subjects as I don't know of any "action" shot that would look sharp at 1/40" or less.

In that scenario, a high burst rate with a stuttering viewfinder is probably manageable.

Another example is when I want to capture a moving object as sharp as possible, with the background with motion blur. The faster you shoot, the better chance that one of them will succeed.

As for stuttering, a mirror would flicker too. The stuttering can be dealt with. At least it's not blinking out.

hjaeger Forum Member • Posts: 86
Re: Camera System?

NC_grouch wrote:

Which is the better camera system to go with? Canon or Nikon? Does one or the other have better lenses ? We all know that they try to out do each other in technology. Although I think Nikon is winning right now. Canon or Nikon which is better to build a system on? I've actually thought about going over to the other side.

The question: "Which is the better camera system?" will only end up in a trench war between fans of the individual brands. It is very difficult (if not impossible) to say which one is better, and especially which one is better for you, as it depends on your photography requirements (kids, sport, nature/animals, landscape, portraits and so on)

If you instead ask: "Which camera system should I choose for getting started in photography?", I would say that there are three main decision points to consider:

1. Which brand does your photography friends and/or club use? By choosing the same brand as them, you can more easily get answers to questions, and borrow/try out lenses, flashes, batteries, remote controls etc

I personally use Canon, but this past weekend I went on a 3 day photo trip/workshop with 7 Nikon users, so there was a lot of nice Nikon gear around; I would have loved to be able to use/share some of that nice gear

2. What does your local camera shop carry? You may be tempted to buy your camera online to save a bit of money, but I would urge any beginner to buy their camera from a physical shop - you can have a play with the camera before buying, and more importantly you have somewhere to go if you encounter problems with your new camera (I'm not just talking about defects, but problems about camera settings, or how camera/lens/accessory work together)

3. If you're going to travel a lot with your camera, you may consider renting lenses locally where you're traveling. There are photography rental businesses that carry Pentax, Sony etc, but my experience is that you want to stay with Canon or Nikon if this is a requirement for you

Neither of these points are related to the actual brands or their cameras/technology, because in today's camera world you really cannot go wrong with any of the well known brands (Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Sony etc)

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alpacas
alpacas New Member • Posts: 24
Re: Camera System?

Unless you get into extremely specific areas, it does not matter. By specific, it might be because you must have a certain lens (17mm Tilt/shift lens Canon offers but Nikon does not), or astrophotography where Canon has an advantage in how RAW data is stored affecting dark sky objects. For 99.9% of photographers these things do not matter.

Guidenet
Guidenet Forum Pro • Posts: 15,748
Re: Frame rate not without flaws...........

123Mike wrote:

Bjorn_L wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Bjorn_L wrote:

123Mike wrote:

I shoot at 8 fps mostly when I want fast burst rate. It helps overcome crappy lighting conditions.

My camera must be a little primitive since when I shoot in poor lighting at 8fps the light level remains unchanged.  What works for me is adding light (a flash or two).

How did you arrive at the above conclusion?

I should have explained. I didn't use the right words. With lighting conditions, I meant, when there is not enough light to achieve a good quality photo. Instead of raising ISO, I burst a bunch of shots. Usually a few end up turning out sharp.

That would not work since the EVs would remain unchanged for the burst.  What is more bursting in good light the a57's focus system can't keep up.  The focus system slows down and misses even more as light drops.  Not unique to the a57 most cameras struggle there.

The way to get good photos in poor light is to either add light or expose correctly for existing light.

It's not about exposure, but about trying to get a sharp photo, is what I meant. It's hard to get a photo come out sharp at 1/40 or slower. A percentage of photos succeed if you happen to hold the camera still and when the toddler happens to hold his head still. But when I do this 20 times, a few come out ok.

I think a lot of us do this if we're honest about it. I will sometimes machine gun a burst at slow rate hoping to get a smile from a baby. I often do at a faster rate at birds in flight, hoping for a sharp one.

Take care.

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Cheers, Craig
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