No more SLT!

Started Apr 29, 2013 | Discussions
havoc315 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,625
Re: Obsolete

Lucas_ wrote:

havoc315 wrote:

Whether SLTs or traditional mirrors like Nikon, Canon & Pentax, these are carry overs from film SLR cameras that really don't fit in the digital world.  Sony has gone with the EVF, while the others continue to hold on to optical viewfinders from the film days.  Another example is the labeling of "drive modes", on DSLRs, a carryover from mechanical film SLRs that doesn't fit in the digital era.

Micro four-thirds have some shortcomings in sensor size and noise above ISO 800.  Two new cameras, the Panasonic GH3 and G6, are feature and function rich, yet hit that ISO noise limit.

The challenge is for Sony to develop a mirrorless camera with a large sensor and of course EVF that can at least equal the ISO performance of the recent SLTs.  That would be as innovative as the SLT design.

They already have done that with the Nex system.

I'm just hoping they create something with a bit more dSLR functionality, ibis, and the A-mount.

....

I haven't seen any FF NEX yet. IMHO FF should be kept for A-mount, but that's me ...! -P

... Lucas

Always having fun with photography
http://www.lucaspix.smugmug.com/

They went full frame with a "compact" with the RX1.  Rumor suggest that fullframe NEX is coming.

Professional photographers and advanced hobbyist will still want a more dSLR-like body of course.  But most of those types of photographers aren't Sony shooters.  I wouldn't be shocked to just see Sony abandon that market.  I hope not.  Sony obviously is taking photography seriously with the NEX, RX and other compact systems.  Hopefully, they feel they need to have a "dSLR" model, just to keep people within the brand.

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: Obsolete
1

havoc315 wrote:

They went full frame with a "compact" with the RX1.  Rumor suggest that fullframe NEX is coming.

Professional photographers and advanced hobbyist will still want a more dSLR-like body of course.  But most of those types of photographers aren't Sony shooters.  I wouldn't be shocked to just see Sony abandon that market.  I hope not.  Sony obviously is taking photography seriously with the NEX, RX and other compact systems.  Hopefully, they feel they need to have a "dSLR" model, just to keep people within the brand.

How did that work out for Minolta? How about Pentax, which has plenty of heritage but not much success to count on? Sony is making an attempt to create a niche, which just may be spelling the future. And I'm glad it hasn't chosen to follow Canon and Nikon.

And if FF NEX is coming, chances are, it will be relying more on A-mount than on E-mount. Perhaps the LA-EA3 adapter will come in handy, as it does in a FF NEX today.

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Samsolar Senior Member • Posts: 2,256
Re: Ok..

AllMankind wrote:

I have been saying that SLT was only a stop gap technology, since the day it was introduced.

Gotta say though, it is being discontinued sooner than I thought.

Personally, I would never buy an SLT camera, but that's me.  And it is one of the prime reason I left Sony.

Than you do not know what you missed, the SLT is a great camera with features that can found on at Sony

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D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 18,315
Re: Unfair!

Dirk W wrote:

Archer66 wrote:

Dirk W wrote:

Poor people who just invested in an expensive SLT body that will soon be outdated by some superior totally new successor technology

Poor people who just invested in an OVF SLR body that is already outdated.

An OVF DSLR is not outdated, because it does not and will never have anything that is permanently blocking light from the sensor. Sony, a couple of years later, seems finally also have understood that this is not good.

I think Canon realised it many years ago.

theswede
theswede Veteran Member • Posts: 3,939
Re: Unfair!

An OVF DSLR is not outdated, because it does not and will never have anything that is permanently blocking light from the sensor.

An OVF DSLR has no bayer array? If it does, you are lying. Everything you put in front of the sensor will block light. Lenses, filters, bayer arrays, microlense arrays, you name it. The SLT mirror is a minor light loss compared to all of that.

Sony, a couple of years later, seems finally also have understood that this is not good.

Sony are not about to remove the bayer array. Nor the SLT. In order to get an image you need things in front of the sensor that permanently block light from it. Otherwise all you'll get is a big fuzzy blob instead of an image.

Jesper

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Jokica
Jokica Senior Member • Posts: 1,363
Re: My idea of hybrid PDAF + CDAF + OFV + LV

Thank you, guys. I see your point.

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 17,223
Re: Unfair!

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Midwest wrote:

True, the live view on DSLR's isn't as fast-focusing as it is on some (most?) mirrorless cameras. But that's an add-on to the camera. The DSLR is about an optical through the lens viewfinder and the focus performance attained in that mode of use. Would it be nice to have faster live view on a DSLR? Sure, why not? But slow live view is only a minor point with me; I would buy a DSLR even if none of them came with Live View.

More people won't.

If AF performance isn't important for you, then you may be fine with a DSLR-like Live View system. With technological advancements, we're experiencing more convenient ways to capture images, and Live View performance is becoming an integral part of it.

AF performance is very important to me. Live view as a means of composing and shooting, is not. Therefore if live view does not have fast AF (and it doesn't) on my dslr, it makes no difference to me.

The relatively simple, undemanding kinds of shots I use live view for don't require fast AF. It would be nice if it was faster but I bought my camera in part because I wanted to be able to shoot action and that has nothing to do with Live View.

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 17,223
Re: Unfair!

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Yes, it's true DSLR's "live view" is much slower focusing than on some mirrorless cameras. I won't dispute that. But the reason for the DSLR - the optical TTL viewfinder and fast autofocus and tracking are the reason it exists. My DSLR's live view is definitely slow, especially in bad light - but I haven't used it to take 1% of my photos. I only use it when I use the articulated screen to get a shot from a difficult angle, otherwise I would have no desire to use live view at all.

Because they suck compared to EVF based systems.

No, because live view and EVF both suck for much or most of my preferred shooting.

I'll keep my TTL OVF and phase detect AF, and you can keep your EVF/LCD, and we'll both be happy.

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 17,223
Re: Oooh! Exciting!

Sonyshine wrote:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-there-will-be-no-more-aps-c-slt-cameras-anymore/

We all knew it would happen one day......mirrorless will be the future - its just a a matter of when and how much I guess?

Bring it on

I'll say! I'm waiting for anti-gravity on my next car so it can be 'tire-less'!

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 17,223
Re: Bring it On !

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Dirk W wrote:

I used to think that way. I had the A35, NEX7 and NEX6 and really liked the EVFs. Due to Sony's jumpiness and unclear road map, instead of upgrading to A77, I switched to Nikon D7100. I must say it was much easier than expected to go back to OVF. It's more a binocular feeling about it and the camera info is nicely displayed on the bottom OLED screen under the OVF. It is nice that there is no lag and that I can also use it before I turn on the camera.

OVF was DOA to me on DSLR. May be it holds some value on FF DSLRs with its own limitations, on APS-C... no way in hell I'm buying one.

Just out of curiosity I had a peek at your gallery. (I'm glad you have one - so many people don't give us even a clue as to what kinds of shooting they like to do.)

Anyhow, it's clear that for the kinds of photos you enjoy taking, an EVF is just fine, and I understand why you wouldn't need or see the value in an OVF. That's fine by me, but not all of us take the same kinds of photos, and not all of us would be happy with using an EVF.

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Clayton1985 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,942
Re: Unfair!

Midwest wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Yes, it's true DSLR's "live view" is much slower focusing than on some mirrorless cameras. I won't dispute that. But the reason for the DSLR - the optical TTL viewfinder and fast autofocus and tracking are the reason it exists. My DSLR's live view is definitely slow, especially in bad light - but I haven't used it to take 1% of my photos. I only use it when I use the articulated screen to get a shot from a difficult angle, otherwise I would have no desire to use live view at all.

Because they suck compared to EVF based systems.

No, because live view and EVF both suck for much or most of my preferred shooting.

I'll keep my TTL OVF and phase detect AF, and you can keep your EVF/LCD, and we'll both be happy.

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It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice.

It may not be how you meant it but in this post and some of the others it sounds like you're implying that you lose PDAF.  The SLT line has phase detect AF even in live view.

liquid stereo
liquid stereo Veteran Member • Posts: 7,265
Not necessarily correct

garykohs wrote:

As the owner of two SLTs - a55 and a77 - I applaud the SLT design for what it gave us - superior frame rate and superior video focusing for a bargain basement price. I have certainly enjoyed shooting with and benefited from Sony's use of this technology. I couldn't have done the photography that I have done over the last several years without it.

We all know SLTs involve a light tradeoff and the market has rendered a thumbs down decision - resulting in great values currently for those of us who realize that this light loss is not really relevant for the vast majority of our photos. But Sony has to make money so they are wisely reevaluating their strategy. Also pretty clearly the market is heading to mirrorless technology and Sony is wisely getting ahead of the curve.

The challenge will be to provide fast and accurate AF and a great viewfinder experience in the A mount without using a mirror. Time will tell if they can do that. For Sony shooters it is an exciting and nerve wracking time, as it has been since KM threw in the towel. Let's wish them the best and see what happens.

In the meantime I'm waiting for a $2,000 A99!

I'm not sure which market you're referring to but I don't think the market is heading to "mirrorless technology". At least not a market based on sales.

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: Unfair!

Midwest wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Yes, it's true DSLR's "live view" is much slower focusing than on some mirrorless cameras. I won't dispute that. But the reason for the DSLR - the optical TTL viewfinder and fast autofocus and tracking are the reason it exists. My DSLR's live view is definitely slow, especially in bad light - but I haven't used it to take 1% of my photos. I only use it when I use the articulated screen to get a shot from a difficult angle, otherwise I would have no desire to use live view at all.

Because they suck compared to EVF based systems.

No, because live view and EVF both suck for much or most of my preferred shooting.

I'll keep my TTL OVF and phase detect AF, and you can keep your EVF/LCD, and we'll both be happy.

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It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice.

If I weren't happy, I would be a part of the collective that incessantly whines about EVF/LCD. But, that isn't the point I was discussing, or care for. But the fact that OVF based Live View sucks, and this shows in your willingness to use it. Whereas, I use EVF and LiveView interchangeably, per MY convenience.

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: Bring it On !

Midwest wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Dirk W wrote:

I used to think that way. I had the A35, NEX7 and NEX6 and really liked the EVFs. Due to Sony's jumpiness and unclear road map, instead of upgrading to A77, I switched to Nikon D7100. I must say it was much easier than expected to go back to OVF. It's more a binocular feeling about it and the camera info is nicely displayed on the bottom OLED screen under the OVF. It is nice that there is no lag and that I can also use it before I turn on the camera.

OVF was DOA to me on DSLR. May be it holds some value on FF DSLRs with its own limitations, on APS-C... no way in hell I'm buying one.

Just out of curiosity I had a peek at your gallery. (I'm glad you have one - so many people don't give us even a clue as to what kinds of shooting they like to do.)

Anyhow, it's clear that for the kinds of photos you enjoy taking, an EVF is just fine, and I understand why you wouldn't need or see the value in an OVF. That's fine by me, but not all of us take the same kinds of photos, and not all of us would be happy with using an EVF.

I couldn't find a single image in your gallery I could take with either EVF or Live View in my cameras. Perhaps you meant something like this?

That is eight of fourteen frame sequence, taken with Sony A55 + Sony 16-50/2.8 SSM. Or this low-light panning...

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El Profe Senior Member • Posts: 1,706
Re: Bring it On !

AllMankind wrote:

topstuff wrote:

but I am over having to peer through an optical tunnel to see the image.

You might want to try using a 'GOOD' FF DSLR, such as the A850/A900.

I'm never going back to OVF.  Never. The 5D2 and lenses will be sold to buy whatever FF mirrorless Sony launch (provided it has an EVF)

And I will NEVER go EVF in my FF DSLR.  In fact, that is why I have now abandoned Sony and gone back to Nikon.

An EVF in my mirrorless is fine, but NOT in my workhorse camera.

But to each their own.  Definately NOT worth arguing about.

I agree 200% with AllManKind... I still have my A700 and my A900 mainly because the amount of lenses I have for them, but I already gave away my A55 . EVF may have some advantages for some people, but for me an OVF is a must have. That's the reason no more new Sony's for me. When I am shooting something that can be focused using an EVF I use one of my Panasonics (ZS-20 or FZ-200).

EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: Not necessarily correct

liquid stereo wrote:

garykohs wrote:

As the owner of two SLTs - a55 and a77 - I applaud the SLT design for what it gave us - superior frame rate and superior video focusing for a bargain basement price. I have certainly enjoyed shooting with and benefited from Sony's use of this technology. I couldn't have done the photography that I have done over the last several years without it.

We all know SLTs involve a light tradeoff and the market has rendered a thumbs down decision - resulting in great values currently for those of us who realize that this light loss is not really relevant for the vast majority of our photos. But Sony has to make money so they are wisely reevaluating their strategy. Also pretty clearly the market is heading to mirrorless technology and Sony is wisely getting ahead of the curve.

The challenge will be to provide fast and accurate AF and a great viewfinder experience in the A mount without using a mirror. Time will tell if they can do that. For Sony shooters it is an exciting and nerve wracking time, as it has been since KM threw in the towel. Let's wish them the best and see what happens.

In the meantime I'm waiting for a $2,000 A99!

I'm not sure which market you're referring to but I don't think the market is heading to "mirrorless technology". At least not a market based on sales.

And automobile market in the USA wasn't shifting from SUVs to Crossovers five years since Honda CR-V was launched. A few years later, however, CR-V outsold any SUV.

BUT, it is also about advancement of technology. Do DSLRs take pictures with mirror on?

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