No more SLT!

Started Apr 29, 2013 | Discussions
captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,999
Re: A merging of Alpha and NEX courtesy of Aptina

SHood wrote:

Looks like the sharing of patents with Aptina (Nikon 1 sensor) will allow Sony to develop a sensor with the fast sensor-reads required for faster AF.  Then the only difference between Alpha and NEX is that Alpha has a fix A-mount adaptor with the traditional DSLR design format.  There is nothing stopping Sony from introducing a NEX line with a traditional DSLR design (like the GH3) and an optional alpha mount adaptor.  There is no longer the need for a separate Alpha line any more.

Well you're close, but isn't that supposed to be the "dual-mount" camera that's also been talked to death on the NEX forum?

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,999
Re: No more SLT!

cosmonaut wrote:

I really don't see how the mirror issue even matters. For months before the first SLTs hit the market all I read was it will never work, it was tried in the film era and the view finder was to dark and yada, yada. no one figured on the EVF. Yes it works and works well. My a850 didn't quit working when the SLT came out and my a99 won't quit working when the SLT is a thing of the past. If need be I will upgrade to the next Sony FF mirror or not.

I just don't see what the big deal is and I don't see it that Sony has tried to hood wink or fool anyone. The a850/900 were and are still great performing cameras and my a99 will be for many years.

And now Canon has recently introduced the EOS 100D camera which about is the same size as a Panasonic G6. And that is a very-small DSLR WITH  a mirror. So they're all lining up at the starting gate.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,999
Re: No more SLT!

This probably just means that the new Alpha line will be mirrorless.

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cosmonaut
cosmonaut Senior Member • Posts: 2,223
Re: No more SLT!

captura wrote:

cosmonaut wrote:

I really don't see how the mirror issue even matters. For months before the first SLTs hit the market all I read was it will never work, it was tried in the film era and the view finder was to dark and yada, yada. no one figured on the EVF. Yes it works and works well. My a850 didn't quit working when the SLT came out and my a99 won't quit working when the SLT is a thing of the past. If need be I will upgrade to the next Sony FF mirror or not.

I just don't see what the big deal is and I don't see it that Sony has tried to hood wink or fool anyone. The a850/900 were and are still great performing cameras and my a99 will be for many years.

And now Canon has recently introduced the EOS 100D camera which about is the same size as a Panasonic G6. And that is a very-small DSLR WITH  a mirror. So they're all lining up at the starting gate.

Well the Canon is also APC-S and not much more than what Olympus did with the E-620.

garykohs
garykohs Veteran Member • Posts: 4,712
Cheers for the SLT! ... and goodbye
6

As the owner of two SLTs - a55 and a77 - I applaud the SLT design for what it gave us - superior frame rate and superior video focusing for a bargain basement price. I have certainly enjoyed shooting with and benefited from Sony's use of this technology. I couldn't have done the photography that I have done over the last several years without it.

We all know SLTs involve a light tradeoff and the market has rendered a thumbs down decision - resulting in great values currently for those of us who realize that this light loss is not really relevant for the vast majority of our photos. But Sony has to make money so they are wisely reevaluating their strategy. Also pretty clearly the market is heading to mirrorless technology and Sony is wisely getting ahead of the curve.

The challenge will be to provide fast and accurate AF and a great viewfinder experience in the A mount without using a mirror. Time will tell if they can do that. For Sony shooters it is an exciting and nerve wracking time, as it has been since KM threw in the towel. Let's wish them the best and see what happens.

In the meantime I'm waiting for a $2,000 A99!

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cosmonaut
cosmonaut Senior Member • Posts: 2,223
Re: No more SLT!
5

captura wrote:

This probably just means that the new Alpha line will be mirrorless.

Exactly. If my A mount lenses work on it, it performes well and has great image quality I don't care weather it has a mirror, translucent mirror or no mirror at all. I can't see inside a camera and care little how it works as long as I know how to use it.

Clayton1985 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,241
Re: Unfair!

Midwest wrote:

Clayton1985 wrote:

Dirk W wrote:

Archer66 wrote:

Dirk W wrote:

Poor people who just invested in an expensive SLT body that will soon be outdated by some superior totally new successor technology

Poor people who just invested in an OVF SLR body that is already outdated.

An OVF DSLR is not outdated, because it does not and will never have anything that is permanently blocking light from the sensor. Sony, a couple of years later, seems finally also have understood that this is not good.

An OVF DSLR without live view or video and with a sensor not as good as the SLT that permanently blocks light is outdated.

I think every DSLR made since 2008 has live view, and every one since 2009 has video - mostly HD video except for a very cheap model or two. So yes, dslr's from 4+ years ago can in some ways be considered outdated.

I consider the live view in every DSLR made since 2008 to be outdated (at least every DSLR that I've used).   I'm optimistic that Sony is looking for a way to provide us with the best of both worlds - not a way to remove the mirror and give us DSLR quality live view... that is a win-lose proposition that I'm not interested in.

havoc315 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,740
Re: A merging of Alpha and NEX courtesy of Aptina
1

Looks like the sharing of patents with Aptina (Nikon 1 sensor) will allow Sony to develop a sensor with the fast sensor-reads required for faster AF.  Then the only difference between Alpha and NEX is that Alpha has a fix A-mount adaptor with the traditional DSLR design format.  There is nothing stopping Sony from introducing a NEX line with a traditional DSLR design (like the GH3) and an optional alpha mount adaptor.  There is no longer the need for a separate Alpha line any more.

That's my fear. No "need" for an alpha line.

Except-- all those alpha lenses rely on in body stabilization. And the Nex is too small for in body stabilization.

With my shaky hands, my big collection of alpha lenses would be nearly worthless on the Nex.

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ssww Regular Member • Posts: 304
Re: No more SLT!

captura wrote:

This probably just means that the new Alpha line will be mirrorless.

Assume that would be case, then we would have a mirrorless E mount and a mirrorless A mount. Would someone care to explain the necessity of having two(!) mirrorless mounts?!

Ronald A Yorko Contributing Member • Posts: 577
Obsolete

Whether SLTs or traditional mirrors like Nikon, Canon & Pentax, these are carry overs from film SLR cameras that really don't fit in the digital world.  Sony has gone with the EVF, while the others continue to hold on to optical viewfinders from the film days.  Another example is the labeling of "drive modes", on DSLRs, a carryover from mechanical film SLRs that doesn't fit in the digital era.

Micro four-thirds have some shortcomings in sensor size and noise above ISO 800.  Two new cameras, the Panasonic GH3 and G6, are feature and function rich, yet hit that ISO noise limit.

The challenge is for Sony to develop a mirrorless camera with a large sensor and of course EVF that can at least equal the ISO performance of the recent SLTs.  That would be as innovative as the SLT design.

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OldClicker Senior Member • Posts: 2,322
Re: No more SLT!
6

I find it strange that many seem to think if it's mirrorless, it has to be small.  Why?  The thickness is determined by the thickness of the LCD, the IBIS and the depth needed by the A-mount.  The rest is determined by ergonomics.  The old film SLR basic size and ergonomics will be around for a long time; it is just becoming more efficient and useful on the inside.

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Some would have you believe that having to adapt to new technology is a workaround, but having adapted to old technology is photography.

captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,999
Re: No more SLT!

ssww wrote:

captura wrote:

This probably just means that the new Alpha line will be mirrorless.

Assume that would be case, then we would have a mirrorless E mount and a mirrorless A mount. Would someone care to explain the necessity of having two(!) mirrorless mounts?!

Well the other possibility is that the new line (former SLT) may be a dual-mount system. Each camera capable of mounting either an A lens or an E lens. A bit similar to Canon EOS which mount either EF lenses or EFS lenses.

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Tom2572
Tom2572 Senior Member • Posts: 1,129
Re: Sony money maker

Timmbits wrote:

Tom2572 wrote:

A FF NEX does make more sense than a mirrorless SLR-sized camera, if only because people still don't expect NEXs to focus as fast as SLR/Ts. Sony won't release a full size mirrorless until on-sensor PDAF is as fast as separate-sensor PDAF, and we are still a few generations from that occurring.

I hate to be a party pooper Tom, but Samsung is offering very very very fast autofocus in the NX300 today, with on-sensor PDAF combined with contrast-detection.  If my memory serves me well, 105 phase-detect and 257 contrast detect points on the sensor.

Is the AF in the NX300 as fast as even the slowest DSLR in the market today???  Can it out focus an A77??????? Because that is what I was talking about.

No one is complaining that the NEX-6/5R aren't as good as advertized as far as AF abilities goes because anything is faster than plain-jane CDAF, but the minute you try taking on traditional PDAF systems with on-sensor PDAF you better have game.

AllMankind
AllMankind Contributing Member • Posts: 564
Re: Ok..
1

I have been saying that SLT was only a stop gap technology, since the day it was introduced.

Gotta say though, it is being discontinued sooner than I thought.

Personally, I would never buy an SLT camera, but that's me.  And it is one of the prime reason I left Sony.

AllMankind
AllMankind Contributing Member • Posts: 564
Re: Unfair!

Archer66 wrote:

Dirk W wrote:

Poor people who just invested in an expensive SLT body that will soon be outdated by some superior totally new successor technology

Poor people who just invested in an OVF SLR body that is already outdated.

A good OVF is NEVER outdated.

Ron Poelman
Ron Poelman Veteran Member • Posts: 7,073
So, this year's vintage is running a little low ?
2

A shame, but fortunately, we bought up big;
and, there's always the next one !

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havoc315 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,740
Re: Obsolete

Whether SLTs or traditional mirrors like Nikon, Canon & Pentax, these are carry overs from film SLR cameras that really don't fit in the digital world.  Sony has gone with the EVF, while the others continue to hold on to optical viewfinders from the film days.  Another example is the labeling of "drive modes", on DSLRs, a carryover from mechanical film SLRs that doesn't fit in the digital era.

Micro four-thirds have some shortcomings in sensor size and noise above ISO 800.  Two new cameras, the Panasonic GH3 and G6, are feature and function rich, yet hit that ISO noise limit.

The challenge is for Sony to develop a mirrorless camera with a large sensor and of course EVF that can at least equal the ISO performance of the recent SLTs.  That would be as innovative as the SLT design.

They already have done that with the Nex system.

I'm just hoping they create something with a bit more dSLR functionality, ibis, and the A-mount.

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Jokica
Jokica Senior Member • Posts: 1,395
My idea of hybrid PDAF + CDAF + OFV + LV

I am coming from NEX forum, I would very much like to hear your opinion.

Since the concept of new camera is mystery, this is my idea of hybrid PDAF + CDAF + OFV + LV

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50947986

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Frenske Veteran Member • Posts: 4,180
Re: My idea of hybrid PDAF + CDAF + OFV + LV
1

Jokica wrote:

I am coming from NEX forum, I would very much like to hear your opinion.

Since the concept of new camera is mystery, this is my idea of hybrid PDAF + CDAF + OFV + LV

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50947986

Nah most ASP-C  cameras have horrible OVF: dim tunnel vision. Taking away 30% of the light for AUX AF sensor will make it even more dim.

I believe EVF is here to stay; no matter how high some dinophotographer will jump.

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topstuff Senior Member • Posts: 1,209
Bring it On !
4

AllMankind wrote:

A good OVF is NEVER outdated.

I used to think that way.

Not any more.

EVF for me all the way.

When I pick up my 5D2 it somehow seems old fashioned, from a different era.  For a moment, I can't understand why I am not seeing real-time, live-view expression of how the camera sees exposure, WB, color... and then I realise I have to take the picture and then worry about chimping after the moment has passed.

SO, for me, a good OVF is already outdated.  April 2013 was the time when it became outdated for me, anyway.

It does not really matter of course, the image and the artists eye is what matters, but I am over having to peer through an optical tunnel to see the image.  It is a hangover from the old era of SLR's and manual focus.  Not that this is bad.  Not at all.  But technology has definitely improved and after a lot of resistance I now embrace it.

I'm never going back to OVF.  Never. The 5D2 and lenses will be sold to buy whatever FF mirrorless Sony launch (provided it has an EVF)

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