Building a PC

Started Apr 13, 2013 | Discussions
OP Tareq Abdulla Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: An updated NEWS

Leon Obers wrote:

As from another message you placed just some minutes ago , using a water cooler, I think there shall be no problems using more high profile heatsink memory modules as the water cooler part for the CPU takes far less room in comparison to a CPU heatsink cooler + fans.

It sounds i will not have a problems installed that high profile heatsink memory, the cooler is a far from the slots and there are plenty space i can see for memory.

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Roland Wooster Senior Member • Posts: 2,112
Re: Building a PC

I've used an X79-UD5, it includes a pretty good sound DSP on the motherboard, unless you are looking for extreme audio fidelity, like 192KHz, you won't need a discrete sound card.

Roland.

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OP Tareq Abdulla Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Building a PC

Roland Wooster wrote:

I've used an X79-UD5, it includes a pretty good sound DSP on the motherboard, unless you are looking for extreme audio fidelity, like 192KHz, you won't need a discrete sound card.

Roland.

Well, i got busy those 2 days so i didn't test the machine yet, i am not in rush and the sound card can be purchased easy and installed even much easier, so once i use the machine then i will figure out if i want a better sound performance.

I took the machine to the computer shop where i bought from, i was in hurry as the technician was out, so i took it out of the box in the shop and connected to a monitor there and trying to install Windows 7 after checking out the Bios, to my bad surprise the machine doesn't last longer than 1-2 minutes sometimes even doesn't show the Bios or select F keys option and it keep restarting again and again, don't know what's wrong, then the technician came while i as in hurry, he checked it few times and he was removing the cooler[Corsair] above the processor everytime but it didn't solve the issue, then suddenly he said he has to dissemble the motherboard and resemble it again to fix the align or hight or whatever, it will take time, i told him sorry, i am busy, so i took the machine with me and told him i will bring it back by Saturday because Friday is day off.

So now until Saturday what i can do with this machine?

On the monitor i keep seeing something about Power Saver mode, and inside the computer there is a red/orange light turned on always and it is a power saver button, so could be this the problem?

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Roland Wooster Senior Member • Posts: 2,112
Re: Building a PC

The power saver mode is just the monitor's way of saying it's not getting any video signal, so that just means the PC is off.

Typical problems that would cause a problem like your description:

  • Bad memory, or inproperly seated memory. The machine will boot with just one memory channel populated, so you could remove all the memory but one stick, be sure that you've put the stick in slot 0 of channel 0, if you have the motherboard manual, or if you can read the small print on the motherboard you should be able to see which is the first slot.
  • Exceptionally poorly installed heatsink, if the machine doesn't even get to the BIOS it's likely not this issue because the CPU shouldn't heat up that much that quickly, unless the heatsink is completely detached from the CPU, or totally missing the thermal paste - check you do have thermal paste between the CPU and heatsink.
  • Water cooler pump? If you have a watercooler system check the pump is working, and connected to power. If it's not pumping the heatsink on the CPU should be quite hot, if it's working normally it won't be much above 45C under normal load.
  • Broken power supply, if the PSU is broken then it can easily provide enough current to get started, but then shut down when the real power draw starts. Do you also have all the power supply cables connected to the motherboard? You should have both the 24 pin (or 20+4) connector plus either a 4 or 8 pin yellow and black connector (connector is white, wires are all yellow and black), not having connected this might cause shutdowns like you describe.

In my experience, the #1 source of problems is usually the memory, try booting with one stick, if that doesn't work, switch and use the other stick. So long as you have 2GB you'd be able boot and install windows. The #2 source is bad power supplies. I've never had troubles with the heatsink or CPU.

Storage problems shouldn't be able to cause the problems you're seeing.

Roland

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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,339
very poor video card choice for your needs

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

Here is the specifications of my computer so far, few things will be changed soon:

CPU: Intel i7-3930K

Motherboard: Gigabyte X79-UD5

RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR3 8GB 1600MHz

HDDrive: Samsung 840series 128GB + WD blue 500GB 7200 HDD [due to change/replacement]

GPU: Zotac GeForce GT 630 4GB [due to change/replacement]

Power: Omega ATX750W [i want to change it if it is not good enough]

Cooling: Corsair H60

Case: Thermaltake Overseer RX-1 VN700M1W2N

Missing is a sound card if needed or necessary.

Yep.. that's the video card model I suspected they were trying to sell you, as mentioned in this post, and you've now confirmed that my suspicions were accurate:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51336246

That card doesn't support SLI (so you can't add another card to that config in a dual card setup), and it's an older Fermi Design.  The Kepler based cards don't start until the GT 640.

Basically, I've got a $59 GT 440 with 1GB of GDDR5 that would probably outperform it (just because of the faster memory speed; as more memory makes very little difference; whereas the speed of the graphics memory does); as my $59 GT 440 has the same number of cores, basic architecture, etc. as that GT 630 (only my GT 440 has faster memory).  It's fine for HD video playback, etc..  But, it's *not* a gaming card.

If you have the option to replace it, I'd take advantage of that option, as it sounds like they're "ripping you off" by charging you $135 for that card (from what I gather from your previous posts about what it's costing you).

Look... that card would be fine for every day use as far as HD video playback, etc.

But, you specifically mentioned an interest in gaming in previous posts discussing options; and that is definitely *not* a card that's suitable for playing games at their highest settings (especially at higher resolutions).

It's an entry level card that's best used in PCs with low wattage PSUs that need a card that can run from PCIe bus power only; intended for non gaming purposes. That's the kind of card you'd want to buy if you're limited to a 350 Watt PSU without any ability to use separate power connections to a card; not a card you'd want to use to play games that demand a higher quality GPU setup.

IOW, if you're trying to spend a lot of money on a setup that's great for gaming purposes, that card is a *huge* bottleneck; and you're just wasting your money by buying a system with a CPU that fast and "crippling" it using an entry level video card like a GT 630.

You'd be better off buying an inexpensive Core i3 CPU setup for fraction of the cost of that system, and using a faster video card instead (e.g., a GT 660) versus trying to use a fast CPU and buying a slow video card like that GT 630 if you want a faster rig for gaming (as again, that video card is *not* suitable for running games at higher quality settings if you want acceptable frame rates).

Just look at reviews and benchmarks for it.   For example, it scored a 717 on the passmark series.  Note the very poor value for it in the bottom section.

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GT+630

Or, just google for GT 630 review and note how it works with modern games.  It's just not a suitable card for gaming purposes.

In contrast, something like a GT 660 scores at 4090 on the same benchmarks (almost 6 times as fast), and represents a great value:

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GT+630

Look at the reviews for those cards (just google for them), and you'll see what I mean.  A GT 630 is definitely NOT a gaming card.  Since your previous posts about building a new system expressed an interest in gaming, you're just wasting your money on a new system like you purchased if gaming is important to you.

Again, you'd be better off buying a cheap system with a slower Core i3 CPU and a GTX 660 (or slower GTX 650Ti, etc. for that matter), versus spending a lot of money on the latest and great Core i7 3930K with a very slow video card like the GT 630 if gaming is primary consideration.

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JimC
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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,339
BTW, what kind of memory setup?

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

Here is the specifications of my computer so far, few things will be changed soon:

CPU: Intel i7-3930K

Motherboard: Gigabyte X79-UD5

RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR3 8GB 1600MHz

HDDrive: Samsung 840series 128GB + WD blue 500GB 7200 HDD [due to change/replacement]

GPU: Zotac GeForce GT 630 4GB [due to change/replacement]

Power: Omega ATX750W [i want to change it if it is not good enough]

Cooling: Corsair H60

Case: Thermaltake Overseer RX-1 VN700M1W2N

Missing is a sound card if needed or necessary.

Yep.. that's the video card model I suspected they were trying to sell you, as mentioned in this post, and you've now confirmed that my suspicions were accurate:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51336246

BTW, what kind of memory setup are they selling you?

Sandy Bridge E CPUs and chipsets like the system you bought prefer a quad channel memory setup.   For example, 4x2GB for 8GB total, 4x4GB for 16GB total, 4x8GB for 32GB total.

IOW, 8GB doesn't really tell us anything.   If that's 2x4GB, you're not taking advantage of the optimum bandwidth to the memory (as you'd need 4x2GB to get quad channel addressing with 8GB total).  Or, if you bought 4x2GB, you'd be using 4 slots for memory, wasting slots you could use to install more memory later.

That's not a huge deal.  But, I'm curious as to what they ended up selling you, as judging by the video card cost ($135 for a slow GT 630 from what I understand), you may be getting ripped off and paying too much for what you're getting in other areas, too.   For example, you could have bought a 4x4GB setup for 16GB total for under $100 and had quad channel addressing. too.

Look... I'm not trying to give you a hard time.  But, it sounds to me like you're focusing on the CPU type, without considering other potential bottlenecks in the system.   I'd look at the exact type of memory setup used (how many slots, is it optimized for better bandwidth with slots available for expansion later; what type of video card, etc.)

On the surface (judging by the cost of the video card they sold you), I'd be suspicious as to how many other areas they tried to cut corners in, too.

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JimC
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OP Tareq Abdulla Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Building a PC

Again, a new update and it will be maybe the last update:

Because of you, i was visiting Dubai yesterday for an exhibition, after that i planned to visit one big center there that is for computer shops all around, i spend little time to see around and stopped in one shop, i ended up out from this shop with the following:

1. Gigabyte Nvidia Geforce GTX 660Ti, i saw GTX 670/680/690, ASUS and Gigabyte, wasn't sure with of the two companies and also if i should go with 660 or 670, but i remember you advised me to save budget and go with 660 instead of 670, so i took that 660Ti, is this s good one then? I can take a snapshot of the box and posted here if you want, so the computer shop can take back their cheap GPU and replace it with what i bought, i told you i will not use that cheapo even for 1 month, didn't know i will find higher cards in my country from one store.

2. WD 2TB Black Caviar HDD 7200rpm, so i can take out my 500GB blue one and put this 2TB, is it a good one to go with?

3. Kingston 8GB DDR3 1600MHz [two] = 16GB, for my laptop, so this is out of our topic here

4. Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB kit [2x 8GB] DDR3 1600MHz [two] = 32GB, so do you think this one is also good RAM to go with?

As you can see, i didn't wait long to put things again right, whatever budget i wasted i don't regret and i never look back, later when the computer is done tonight i will give my impressions about it.

And asking me about that RAM Kingston 8GB on the machine before it is replace, it is only one stick, 1x 8GB, but it wasn't the reason for the issue, the technician found out that the cooling or heatsink is not detached or not attached directly on the processor, so he will replace it with something that can be attached without gap or something, we will see soon when i go back after he redoing things again with updates.

Anything else i should check out after those updates?

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OP Tareq Abdulla Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Building a PC

Finally brought back the computer, but there is something not right, the booting time is so long, i use Samsung SSD 840 non Pro and it is connected to SATA III, also the Windows Experience Index Rate for this drive is 7.8 instead of 7.9, AHCI is on or enabled, so what's wrong about that long booting time? My laptop both i7 one with SSD and the another with Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid drive both are much faster than this desktop, fresh Windows 7 install, what do you think?

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OP Tareq Abdulla Regular Member • Posts: 259
Motherboard + i5 or i7?

Well, the new computer i have is great, didn't use many apps and games yet but the first impression is it is great, but i have that bad habit that i kee using one computer and filling it with many many aaps/files/games i may not need most of them and it may lead to some issues later, so for that reason i said i want to build another computer for tests and that will be my experiment lab and i can let my kids to use it if they want to play games, i don't want them to touch or use my computer, so i was thinking about something to go with.

Motherboard: I decided to go with Z77 chipset motherboard, but which one? There are many f that model Z77.

Processor or CPU: First i said i3 is enough, but then my bad evil inner desire told me go direct to i5 or i7, but which i5 or i7? I checked i5-3570K and by mistake and bad fault i checked also i7-3770K, to my surprise, the difference in price between the two in my area is only $100, so if that is the case i better go with i7-3770K over i5-3570K, but do you think i better forget those two and go with another cheaper i5 or cheaper i7 such as i7-34xx-35yy series?

The other things will be fine, because i ordered Samsung 840 Pro to go with my new computer, so the current Samsung 840 non pro will be used on that another backup computer if done.

GPU and PSU will not be a big deal, i have a feeling that i may buy GTX 650 for that one, or maybe i will to much money again without regret and buy GTX 680 or 670 and use that 660Ti on that second computer when it is done, i  am not in rush, i had my own great one and i can use and upgrade it slowly if i need, and anything inside it can be gone to the other one.

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OP Tareq Abdulla Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Building a PC

I am happy with my first build PC, but i alwats have that bad crazy habit to replace and upgrade, so i paid one friend and he is going to bring me another motherboard to replace the one i have currently, and to my big bad luck is that the current mobo is LGA2011 so i left to use only i7 2011 processor, and my only cheaper option is i7-3820, not sure if this processor is good enough but i see it not popular as i7-3770K or i5-3570K, in this case i will go with this processor at the end unless i get more budget sooner or later then i may think about something else.

I can't get rid of my 2011 mobo and replace it with Z77 mobo LGA1155 mobo, because i liked the first build i am planning to have second build with some parts i am taking out of my 1st one, i will keep that second for backup and for my kids and one adopted son, they like to play games and i can't let them use my computer, so i am going to have second PC buit next month maybe, but the only thing that i am still circling about is the GPU, my first build will be used as i said for many things from gaming up to video, and from one site i found recently i liked the idea using dual or multi monitors, there i found that i need something with over 2GB, some said 2GB is fine but most showing me that 2GB is not enough much for multi-monitors, so i am not sure which GPU i should get? They recommended me few cards and still didn't confirm anything yet.

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RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,564
Re: Building a PC

You know in years past building your own PC allowed you to get it for a cheaper price.  These days building yourself allows  you to get better components but for a more expensive price.  If you are considering going with the cheaper of your choices, you might as well buy it from a store because that way you'll get a 1 year warranty that you won't have to deal with yourself but the store will do it for you.

There will also be less hassle getting components to work with each other, installing drivers, etc.  FOr the past 12 years I have build my own PC's, but here soon I think I may just buy one from the store for much less hassle and less time.

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,564
are you serious?

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

I bought a desktop from a local store with parts i asked and some aren't much important i will change later when i can.

The 2 things i sure want to change are:

What you "propose" to change is essentialy EVERYTHING in the case except for a DVD/bluray drive!  Why get a computer, made with the parts you ask for, if you plan to replace those parts for different parts!  My goodness!!  You should have asked for the components you actually wanted!!!

1. SSD, i have Samsung 840 series 128GB non Pro, so i would like to go with Samsung Pro 256GB.

2. Graphic Card,  they installed something normal not great enough, but just for quick few days use i will keep it until i order one either from online or if i can find it locally somewhere, then i can use that current one for another low performance computer.

The RAM is 8GB now, but i will definitely increase it to either 16GB or 32GB, the motherboard can go up to 64GB but i am not in tush to go for maximum RAM yet.

I am not sure if the motherboard is good one, but this is what they told me available in addition to ASUS, but this is the only one it have Bluetooth+WiFi included [it is just a card], anyway, i said before that i will not care too much about so powerful motherboard, at the end it is X79 Intel chipset inside, so this will make it a decent one for a while.

Thanks for all the help and opinion/suggestions/recommendations, sure i need you for anything i search to get.

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,564
Re: Building a PC

Dude, unless you are playing extremely fast action 1st player shooter games with all the graphics options turned on high, or doing 3D graphic design rendering, you will not notice any performance difference between a $99 video card and a very high end one you seem to be wanting.  Doing work on photos is 95% CPU and 5% everything else.  All a photo program is doing is displaying the image to the screen 60 times per second:  the same 2D static image which does not take much hardware to do!

Seems like  you enjoy replacing things for the sake of it, in that case you will probably never be happy with what is in your computer whether you see a performance different between 2 different components or not.  Good luck with that.

OP Tareq Abdulla Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: are you serious?

RedFox88 wrote:

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

I bought a desktop from a local store with parts i asked and some aren't much important i will change later when i can.

The 2 things i sure want to change are:

What you "propose" to change is essentialy EVERYTHING in the case except for a DVD/bluray drive!  Why get a computer, made with the parts you ask for, if you plan to replace those parts for different parts!  My goodness!!  You should have asked for the components you actually wanted!!!

1. SSD, i have Samsung 840 series 128GB non Pro, so i would like to go with Samsung Pro 256GB.

2. Graphic Card,  they installed something normal not great enough, but just for quick few days use i will keep it until i order one either from online or if i can find it locally somewhere, then i can use that current one for another low performance computer.

The RAM is 8GB now, but i will definitely increase it to either 16GB or 32GB, the motherboard can go up to 64GB but i am not in tush to go for maximum RAM yet.

I am not sure if the motherboard is good one, but this is what they told me available in addition to ASUS, but this is the only one it have Bluetooth+WiFi included [it is just a card], anyway, i said before that i will not care too much about so powerful motherboard, at the end it is X79 Intel chipset inside, so this will make it a decent one for a while.

Thanks for all the help and opinion/suggestions/recommendations, sure i need you for anything i search to get.

Well, i was in hurry and i was only care about the processor and the case, but later on when i read more in details about other parts i found out that there are better options i should go with, and that was the problem, so then i started to change things one by one, it was my mistake rushing to have a PC very soon without reading carefully about each parts in details.

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OP Tareq Abdulla Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Building a PC

RedFox88 wrote:

Dude, unless you are playing extremely fast action 1st player shooter games with all the graphics options turned on high, or doing 3D graphic design rendering, you will not notice any performance difference between a $99 video card and a very high end one you seem to be wanting.  Doing work on photos is 95% CPU and 5% everything else.  All a photo program is doing is displaying the image to the screen 60 times per second:  the same 2D static image which does not take much hardware to do!

Seems like  you enjoy replacing things for the sake of it, in that case you will probably never be happy with what is in your computer whether you see a performance different between 2 different components or not.  Good luck with that.

Do you feel mad about me doing changed to my built PC? I did change because i did a mistake as i said, but even with that mistake i never feel sad or regret, in fact i am changing my first build and i am planning to use the replaced parts in the second build for my kids and adopted son, i can't allow them using my computer, so the first current build except for CPU will become actually the second build, and i will change everything in first build except for CPU and case.

About GPU, i said i am still not sure about the one i have, it is not bad at all, but it is not great best as well, it is GTX 660Ti, i read that it may not support flawlessly on dual or multiple monitors, and that was one of the mistakes, when i was building this PC i never thought i may go with multi-monitors, just when i was reading and found some gamers using multi-monitors it made me to think about a better option for GPU, if i never go for multi-monitors then i may never think to replace my 660Ti, and if i said i was thinking to build a second PC then that means i will wate another money no doubt for all parts again whether less or closer to first build cost.

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OP Tareq Abdulla Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: Building a PC

RedFox88 wrote:

You know in years past building your own PC allowed you to get it for a cheaper price.  These days building yourself allows  you to get better components but for a more expensive price.  If you are considering going with the cheaper of your choices, you might as well buy it from a store because that way you'll get a 1 year warranty that you won't have to deal with yourself but the store will do it for you.

There will also be less hassle getting components to work with each other, installing drivers, etc.  FOr the past 12 years I have build my own PC's, but here soon I think I may just buy one from the store for much less hassle and less time.

I completely understand that, and i will tell you that:

1. I didn't use my first build for long long time, just for the first week i didn't face any issue, so i have to give it more time to see if i can find any issues or not.

2. From that very short use of my new PC, i was blown away of performance, so in fact i decided to have another one even for backup, but later on i found out that i need t have another one for kids and maybe my wife could use it for something over her weak laptop, so i don't feel regret if i build another one, and i was also thinking that the second one will be a test machine, i don't want to throw everything and use/test everything on my first build, what made me to buy many laptops and Macs and i have 2 very very old desktops before is that i use them for everything with good or bad files from everywhere [CDs/DVDs, internet, flashes, HDDs,...etc], for that reason i think it is better i have another machine to test and filter files before i use that on my first machine.

Last, i am the only person in the world who has wasting money on building or rigs, i found another site where i see members have 3-4 rigs and i really don't know why then need more than 1 or 2 rigs, and i read most of them are not working in IT/computing/networking things to need more than 2 rigs and not all are extreme gamers, and i saw many also changing parts within time, i had the budget to change from beginning, but i think i found the parts i need after i already did buy without reading searching much about, now i feel fine and i never feel i want to replace again, and i am sure there are things will come out sooner or later to be better options as i heard about Haswell and Maxwill and series 700 and what else?

At the end, it is a matter of need/want and budget, sometimes i go with want more than need, another time i have high budget that i just go and buy buy buy, but i try if i buy something to replace then i don't throw the first item i bought, there are always others who can use my first item i replaced.

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RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,564
Re: Building a PC

What are these "rigs" you are taking about?  Rigs aren't computers.

Michael Firstlight Veteran Member • Posts: 3,466
Re: Building a PC

Rig is a very common term among folks that build personal computers. You must not be familiar with that culture.  Rig is also often synonymous with 'build' as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_computer

http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/61141/rig

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rig

M.

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