About to Buy -- What do you think ?

Started Apr 13, 2013 | Discussions
joejack951 Senior Member • Posts: 2,682
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

123Mike wrote:

  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises
  • 12 fps burst rate, cropped
  • Faster AF

Why isn't it recommended to shoot sports if this is such a great plus?

Says who? It's *great* for sports! Perhaps people like Fro are lying to you. He's avoiding Sony because he's afraid to upset off his sponsors. Possibly many other "reviewers" are in the same boat. I say the Sony is the BEST for sport shooting.

Then why doesn't anyone see pro photogs at the Olympics or weekly pro sports events using Sony gear? The sidelines are predominantly swarmed by pros using Nikon and Canon...........just sayin'...

If it has a 10fps frame rate and reportedly a great AF system I wonder why DPR says it's not so good for 'serious' sports and action work.

Does Sony have anything to compete with the D4 or 1DX ?

The A57, A65, A77, and A99 all compete with that, yes. And it costs a lot less.

From DPR's review:

"As we saw in the A55, which offered a maximum frame rate of 10fps in the same mode, there are some downsides to this maximum capture rate. The A57 can still autofocus continuously, but in order to be able to do this, aperture is either fixed wide open, or limited to f/3.5 if the lens's maximum aperture allows. You can take full control over aperture in Continuous Advance Priority AE mode, but only if you select AF-A or manual focus. The reason for this limitation is the same reason why you cannot combine AF with manual aperture control in movie mode - at apertures smaller than f/5.6 the AF system receives essentially no light, so cannot function.

Another disadvantage of the SLT system when it comes to fast shooting is that it isn't possible for the A57 to maintain a live view feed in 8, 10 or 12fps capture modes. The viewfinder does not black out when shooting at these high frame rates, but shows a sequence of still frames you've just shot. What this means is that at any given moment, you don't see the current view through the camera's lens, but how it was a fraction of a second ago. This makes little or no difference if you're shooting slow-moving or static subjects, but it makes panning with fast-moving subjects very hard indeed, since you never know quite where they are - only where they were."

If I was a dedicated sports shooter, there's no doubt in my mind that I would not pick the A57 for the reasons outlined above.

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Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,837
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

joejack951 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises
  • 12 fps burst rate, cropped
  • Faster AF

Why isn't it recommended to shoot sports if this is such a great plus?

Says who? It's *great* for sports! Perhaps people like Fro are lying to you. He's avoiding Sony because he's afraid to upset off his sponsors. Possibly many other "reviewers" are in the same boat. I say the Sony is the BEST for sport shooting.

Then why doesn't anyone see pro photogs at the Olympics or weekly pro sports events using Sony gear? The sidelines are predominantly swarmed by pros using Nikon and Canon...........just sayin'...

If it has a 10fps frame rate and reportedly a great AF system I wonder why DPR says it's not so good for 'serious' sports and action work.

Does Sony have anything to compete with the D4 or 1DX ?

The A57, A65, A77, and A99 all compete with that, yes. And it costs a lot less.

From DPR's review:

"As we saw in the A55, which offered a maximum frame rate of 10fps in the same mode, there are some downsides to this maximum capture rate. The A57 can still autofocus continuously, but in order to be able to do this, aperture is either fixed wide open, or limited to f/3.5 if the lens's maximum aperture allows. You can take full control over aperture in Continuous Advance Priority AE mode, but only if you select AF-A or manual focus. The reason for this limitation is the same reason why you cannot combine AF with manual aperture control in movie mode - at apertures smaller than f/5.6 the AF system receives essentially no light, so cannot function.

Another disadvantage of the SLT system when it comes to fast shooting is that it isn't possible for the A57 to maintain a live view feed in 8, 10 or 12fps capture modes. The viewfinder does not black out when shooting at these high frame rates, but shows a sequence of still frames you've just shot. What this means is that at any given moment, you don't see the current view through the camera's lens, but how it was a fraction of a second ago. This makes little or no difference if you're shooting slow-moving or static subjects, but it makes panning with fast-moving subjects very hard indeed, since you never know quite where they are - only where they were."

If I was a dedicated sports shooter, there's no doubt in my mind that I would not pick the A57 for the reasons outlined above.

Is it from DPR? I believe to have read that as well, panning burstshots are near impossible.

At least this is more or less what DPR concludes as well, the A57 isn't bad camera but it has specs that are a bit iffy imo.

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Cheers Mike

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joejack951 Senior Member • Posts: 2,682
Re: About to Buy -- What do you think ?

Guidenet wrote:

While 50mm on a crop sensor does have the field of view of 75-80 on a full frame camera, it does not have the depth of field charactoristics nor compression that makes 85mm - 105mm so useful.

The DOF argument can be made for any lens on APS-C. That doesn't make APS-C useless as a format for portraits. You add about a stop's worth of DOF shooting APS-C for any given field of view. Not every FF portrait is shot wide open.

Compression effects result from how far away you stand, hence my suggestion of the 10% crop for using 50mm on a Nikon APS-C sensor. Make it a 5% crop if using Canon.

FWIW, most of my photos these days are taken with a D3S. I'm aware of the benefits of using a FF camera and tend to promote them on these forums. After all, an actual 85mm f/1.8 lens on a full frame camera will yield less depth of field, likely be sharper due to its simpler design, and cost less to boot compared to a 50mm f/1.4. However, one needs to be willing to make the investment in a FF camera first and actually appreciate those differences for them to be meaningful.

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joejack951 Senior Member • Posts: 2,682
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

Limburger wrote:

joejack951 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises
  • 12 fps burst rate, cropped
  • Faster AF

Why isn't it recommended to shoot sports if this is such a great plus?

Says who? It's *great* for sports! Perhaps people like Fro are lying to you. He's avoiding Sony because he's afraid to upset off his sponsors. Possibly many other "reviewers" are in the same boat. I say the Sony is the BEST for sport shooting.

Then why doesn't anyone see pro photogs at the Olympics or weekly pro sports events using Sony gear? The sidelines are predominantly swarmed by pros using Nikon and Canon...........just sayin'...

If it has a 10fps frame rate and reportedly a great AF system I wonder why DPR says it's not so good for 'serious' sports and action work.

Does Sony have anything to compete with the D4 or 1DX ?

The A57, A65, A77, and A99 all compete with that, yes. And it costs a lot less.

From DPR's review:

"As we saw in the A55, which offered a maximum frame rate of 10fps in the same mode, there are some downsides to this maximum capture rate. The A57 can still autofocus continuously, but in order to be able to do this, aperture is either fixed wide open, or limited to f/3.5 if the lens's maximum aperture allows. You can take full control over aperture in Continuous Advance Priority AE mode, but only if you select AF-A or manual focus. The reason for this limitation is the same reason why you cannot combine AF with manual aperture control in movie mode - at apertures smaller than f/5.6 the AF system receives essentially no light, so cannot function.

Another disadvantage of the SLT system when it comes to fast shooting is that it isn't possible for the A57 to maintain a live view feed in 8, 10 or 12fps capture modes. The viewfinder does not black out when shooting at these high frame rates, but shows a sequence of still frames you've just shot. What this means is that at any given moment, you don't see the current view through the camera's lens, but how it was a fraction of a second ago. This makes little or no difference if you're shooting slow-moving or static subjects, but it makes panning with fast-moving subjects very hard indeed, since you never know quite where they are - only where they were."

If I was a dedicated sports shooter, there's no doubt in my mind that I would not pick the A57 for the reasons outlined above.

Is it from DPR? I believe to have read that as well, panning burstshots are near impossible.

At least this is more or less what DPR concludes as well, the A57 isn't bad camera but it has specs that are a bit iffy imo.

Of course:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-slt-a57/10

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123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Sony provides so much more!
  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises
  • 12 fps burst rate, cropped
  • Faster AF
  • 1080/60p/30p/24p video
  • Fast continuous AF during video
  • Stereo Mic
  • HDR
  • In camera panoramas stitching
  • Access to AF lenses from 80s (Minolta mostly)
  • Live view always available with no compromises
  • Excellent low light abilities
  • Camera body based stabilization
  • Focus peaking
  • Kelvin WB Adjustment
  • Lens Correction for CAs, Distortion, Vignetting
  • 15 Point AF
  • Wireles Flash Commander
  • High Speed Flash Snyc
  • 100%/1.04x EVF
Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,837
Re: About to Buy -- What do you think ?

Hey guys,

Just an amateur here.

I got a 50 1.8 but absolutely going to upgrade to 85 1.8 (on 7D).

My 2 cents.

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Cheers Mike

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joejack951 Senior Member • Posts: 2,682
Re: Sony provides so much more!

123Mike wrote:

  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises

You might want to revise that last bit.

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joejack951 Senior Member • Posts: 2,682
Re: About to Buy -- What do you think ?

Limburger wrote:

Hey guys,

Just an amateur here.

I got a 50 1.8 but absolutely going to upgrade to 85 1.8 (on 7D).

My 2 cents.

I've used 85mm on a crop camera. Indoors, I always found it awkwardly long for anything but a very tight crop, though much of that depends on the size of the room you are in. 105mm on full frame feels like my limit indoors unless I'm going for candids only. Of course, it's all personal preference.

I LOVED the 85mm lens when space permitted though (certainly helped that it was an 85mm f/1.4).

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Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,837
Re: About to Buy -- What do you think ?

joejack951 wrote:

Limburger wrote:

Hey guys,

Just an amateur here.

I got a 50 1.8 but absolutely going to upgrade to 85 1.8 (on 7D).

My 2 cents.

I've used 85mm on a crop camera. Indoors, I always found it awkwardly long for anything but a very tight crop, though much of that depends on the size of the room you are in. 105mm on full frame feels like my limit indoors unless I'm going for candids only. Of course, it's all personal preference.

I LOVED the 85mm lens when space permitted though (certainly helped that it was an 85mm f/1.4).

Well let me explain.

The 85 I want to use outdoors for candid and portrait (on crop indoors it is a bit long) ,terrific subject isolation on a budget imo.

In june I am going to Paris and already got a couple of shots in my head, but not sure I get the lens for just that cause.

BTW I shoot 7D (crop sensor).

The 85 is still pending

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Cheers Mike

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123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Really?
1

Mike, let me ask you a question. With all your backpeddling

I'm not the one making straw man arguments.

, misinformation

I have not intentionally lied. I have pointed out lists of features that makes the Sony unique.

, crazy ideas

I'm not the one that created the features.

, lack of understanding

That's your arrogant assumption.

, bad attitude

I'm not the one attacking, ridiculing, laughing, ganging up, making fun of.

, ranting and whatnot

I'm defending the list of features that makes the Sony a better option for new buyers.

, do you really think a new prospective buyer is more or less likely to consider a Sony a57 after following these threads?

They're buying a camera, they're not looking to suck up to you. Or perhaps they are, I don't know.

Seriously, you're doing and have done your brand way more harm than good.

That's your story and you're stuck with it.

Even the average Sony owner see this.

Sony owners are familiar with the advantages they have.

You obviously do not, but think about it.

Think about all those features that you don't have.

Add this to the fact your battery tests seem to point out you have had and might still be having focus issues with your Sony camera. There probably isn't any, but you obviously thought there was or half your gallery wouldn't have been the typical battery test.

The battery test was after observing back focusing, which was later tracked to a problem in two lenses, where axial chromatic aberration was causing the camera to focus wrong with the lens wide open. One lens in particular was supposed to be a really good lens, and it exhibited this problem also causing massive veiling and hazing wide open that goes away when stopping down. The unexpected part is that normally you only expect to see this kind of focus shifting on very fast lenses, but this lens was a 28-135 f4-4.5 lens. I've had lengthy discussions and noone had suggested focus shifting because noone had expected that to happen THIS badly on this kind of lens.

You don't seem to understand HDR photography.

Another arrogant assumption, and accusation. High Dynamic Range. One shot captures one range from dark to light. To increase the range, one can combine multiple shots each with different exposure. I can code up the computer algorithms that can make all that work in a separate app if I wanted to. ps. I'm so tired of people trying to come out ahead by trying to put me down.

You think frame-rates are the only thing sports photographers are looking for and believe frame-rates are the most important aspect to others.

That's not what I said. But I know that for a consumer camera, someone wanting to capture high action sports, such a person could do very well with an A57!

You're shocked the a99 doesn't bother with this much in the way of frame-rates. You don't consider buffer size and read speed nor files size. You probably don't understand tracking.

Again, you're making assumption that there is something I might not know. Do you think it is ok if there was something I might not know? Would that automatically make me completely inferior and rookie? I'm sure there are thing that you know that I don't, and vice versa. I'm sure for instance, if we go sit down at a computer, I'd code circles around you. Would I go smear your nose into that if we'd be talking about coding? No! But if someone is using a better programming language with better features, when someone looking to program, is better off with one language over the other.

You believe sweep panorama is a good legit substitute for real panorama photography.

I did not say that. You might have missed a message. My opinion on panoramas is that a Fish-eye provides better results. I did point out that one can take the panorama side ways so that it isn't so darn wide and skinny vertically. I also pointed out that because of the sweep it creates a horizontal blur, and lastly I admitted that that feature is a bit of a gimmick. However - I *HAVE* created a few interesting landscape captures where I didn't have the right lens. A kludge but it worked, kind of. It's not what you buy a camera for, I admit that.

You see no advantages in full frame 35mm sensors though Sony's top shelf model embraces it.

Of course I see an advantage in ff. Shallower DOF. The AF having a better opportunity to better measure distance and as a result focus better. A larger sensor area capturing more collective light. I've seen plenty of really amazing FF shots that are very difficult to equate, if at all, using a crop camera. But it is also possible that the guy having a crop shows up with results that the FF guy didn't outdo. If I had a choice, I'd go full frame for sure. A99 all the way! For sports, if I were a pro, which I'm not, I'd keep an A57 on the scene as well! Purely for the 10 and 12 fps action, plus it'd be ready with the right lens.

You don't understand the difference between professional grade gear and consumer grade entry level.

Again with the arrogance. Drop it already. I'm not an idiot.

You seem to have zero clue s to what is important to advanced seasoned photographers or professionals. You seem to think all the features you state are unique to your camera.

The list of features are not found on the competition anywhere near that price. That is something.

You don't understand which of those are really important.

Someone want to take some video around the house of the kids, pets, local sports, and whatnot. Some fast action snapping at 12 fps. Using 10 fps to burst many shots in crappy lighting condition when only like 5% of the shots turn out good. A better flip out screen. A cost effective array of lenses to tap into. All important reasons to someone getting into this.

You don't even know how to use many of them and have little experience with them.

Arrogant.

Add this to your name calling

I don't recall calling anyone actually names. Where? Did I slip somewhere? I don't want to actually call names. I think others called me names though.

ranting and attitude,

Is it nice for people to shoot down, ridicule, insult me, downplay, after I merely point out why Sony is a great choice camera for a new buyer? Am I not allowed to defend the points I'm making, which are very valid.

and I wonder if you think you're making a good impression to the average reader for you or your camera choice.

I'm not courting anyone. I don't have anyone here to suck up to. I could understand why people would hate me for starting to list things that can't equate in a specific Nikon or Canon forum. But this is an open brand-less forum. Some guy wanting to buy a camera. I'm simply pointing out what I know.

Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,837
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

Thanks, spot on.

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Cheers Mike

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123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

From DPR's review:

"As we saw in the A55, which offered a maximum frame rate of 10fps in the same mode, there are some downsides to this maximum capture rate. The A57 can still autofocus continuously, but in order to be able to do this, aperture is either fixed wide open, or limited to f/3.5 if the lens's maximum aperture allows. You can take full control over aperture in Continuous Advance Priority AE mode, but only if you select AF-A or manual focus. The reason for this limitation is the same reason why you cannot combine AF with manual aperture control in movie mode - at apertures smaller than f/5.6 the AF system receives essentially no light, so cannot function.

Another disadvantage of the SLT system when it comes to fast shooting is that it isn't possible for the A57 to maintain a live view feed in 8, 10 or 12fps capture modes. The viewfinder does not black out when shooting at these high frame rates, but shows a sequence of still frames you've just shot. What this means is that at any given moment, you don't see the current view through the camera's lens, but how it was a fraction of a second ago. This makes little or no difference if you're shooting slow-moving or static subjects, but it makes panning with fast-moving subjects very hard indeed, since you never know quite where they are - only where they were."

If I was a dedicated sports shooter, there's no doubt in my mind that I would not pick the A57 for the reasons outlined above.

8 fps with full aperture control.

10, 12 fps with aperture fixed to 3.5. Yes, that's a downside. Not for indoor sport shooting, because there you're probably going to be ok with f3.5 (or widest available).

As for the lag thing, this is not a problem. I've seen this discussed before. You dynamically track the camera based on what you're seeing. It works, it really does. This lag thing is not a spoiler, it's just different, and you can totally tune into this.

So what's going to compete with this in the consumer line of cameras? Nothing!

8 fps without the lag with 100% control. Your's is slower.

123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Sony provides so much more!

joejack951 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises

You might want to revise that last bit.

10 and 12 fps at f3.5 fixed or widest available, whichever is slower.

12 fps cropped

8 fps no compromises

Good? What do you have?

123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

cherry picking one thing and using that to dismiss everything. A very weak argument.

Besides, it's incorrect. You can perfectly well track 10 and 12 fps shooting. It's just different. You can tune into it, you really can. I can. Perhaps you can too. Not every is handy though.

But, for those that aren't that handy, they could choose 8 fps where all those downsides go away.

So, how many fps do you have?

123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

Wauw, this thread is watched. The moment someone thinks he's found something negative to say, poof, they all come swarming in. I must have made quite the impression around here!

Anyway. You too. 8fps no compromises. How much have you got?

Plus, 10 and 12 fps with compromises, but those can be managed.

Not bad for a consumer camera!

And yes, everything under $1000 is most definitely also consumer grade. So don't go pretending your sub $1k camera is pro somehow.

123Mike Veteran Member • Posts: 4,643
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

Limburger wrote:

Thanks, spot on.

Except, it wasn't.

headfirst
headfirst Contributing Member • Posts: 670
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

Most other consumer cameras don't AF below f5.6 either so I wouldn't knock it too much for that especially as it's offering something over & above normal.

Panning at high fps is possible, there are settings that will minimise the "slide-show" & practice helps but I guess that reviewers often don't spend enough time to become really familiar with something that is quite different to what they are used to.

Personally I ignore the 12fps setting on my A77 except to wind up 7D & D7000 users

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Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,837
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

headfirst wrote:

Most other consumer cameras don't AF below f5.6 either so I wouldn't knock it too much for that especially as it's offering something over & above normal.

Panning at high fps is possible, there are settings that will minimise the "slide-show" & practice helps but I guess that reviewers often don't spend enough time to become really familiar with something that is quite different to what they are used to.

Personally I ignore the 12fps setting on my A77 except to wind up 7D & D7000 users

Wind me up I got a 7D JK

An A77 is a fine camera but I am not going to trade it, sorry.

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Cheers Mike

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Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,837
Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?

123Mike wrote:

cherry picking one thing and using that to dismiss everything. A very weak argument.

Besides, it's incorrect. You can perfectly well track 10 and 12 fps shooting. It's just different. You can tune into it, you really can. I can. Perhaps you can too. Not every is handy though.

But, for those that aren't that handy, they could choose 8 fps where all those downsides go away.

So, how many fps do you have?

8fps 19 point x-type AF so by now you know what I shoot with.

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Cheers Mike

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Bjorn_L
Bjorn_L Veteran Member • Posts: 5,770
Re: About to Buy -- What do you think ?

Limburger wrote:

joejack951 wrote:

Limburger wrote:

Hey guys,

Just an amateur here.

I got a 50 1.8 but absolutely going to upgrade to 85 1.8 (on 7D).

My 2 cents.

I've used 85mm on a crop camera. Indoors, I always found it awkwardly long for anything but a very tight crop, though much of that depends on the size of the room you are in. 105mm on full frame feels like my limit indoors unless I'm going for candids only. Of course, it's all personal preference.

I LOVED the 85mm lens when space permitted though (certainly helped that it was an 85mm f/1.4).

Well let me explain.

The 85 I want to use outdoors for candid and portrait (on crop indoors it is a bit long) ,terrific subject isolation on a budget imo.

In june I am going to Paris and already got a couple of shots in my head, but not sure I get the lens for just that cause.

BTW I shoot 7D (crop sensor).

The 85 is still pending

I used a 85mm 1.8 briefly on a Canon 500d (managed to borrow one just before I jumped brands).  I liked it enough so that I bought it again on Nikon mount and used it on both DX & FX.  On my d90 I found it to be a half decent "school play" lens.  Where I would have to sit in the audience and wanted to shoot the action.  With a 50mm I would almost have to be in the front row.

Buy the lens soon if you plan on taking it on a big trip in a couple of months.  You'll want to give yourself time to get used to it.

-- hide signature --

See my plan (in my profile) for what I shoot with. See my gallery for images I find amusing.

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