how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Started Apr 12, 2013 | Discussions
Rickj23 Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Annex wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

salla30 wrote:

Well, you could always search the forum or Google, it's only been discussed one gazillion times ; the 5N is no different from any other Nex with a 1650 , with the exception of internal lens correction, or lack of it , in a few models .

The variables to look out for is competence variations .

thanks. perhaps you can point me to some forum link discussion threads (I did search of course but the search criteria varies wildly depending on nomenclature)?

The SEL1855 is a better lens for still photography by far.  The SEL1650 PZ has too much distortion at 16-20 mm and it is not very sharp fully extended.  It is not that compact either, the moment you switch the camera on.  The PZ lens was developed specially for the new range of the cameras that were to follow the NEX 3N it was never meant to be used with the upper range of the NEX cameras.  As Sony fell on the hard times .. they have decided to standardise instead of using 3 different standard lenses (NEX 7 uses black  SEL1855 that is made in Japan).  Optically, the PZ lens is really only usable within the 20 to 40 mm range and only with f11 or higher apertures.  I had that lens 24  hours and tried it on macro and portraiture / candids in the low light, no flash in my locall coffee shop ... side by side with SEL1855 on two NEX 5N cameras (I have one 5R and two 5N cameras).  Next day I went back to John Lewis in London and got my money back.  The lens is slow on start up, slow to operate, has the non standard 40.5 mm filter thread etc.

This is complete drivel. I've owned 2 18-55s and the 16-50 on a NEX3/5N&6:

  • The 16-50 was produced with the 6, not the 3N.
  • The reason the NEX7 uses the black 18-55 is because it is OUTDATED and imminently to be replaced by the 7N.
  • The PZ is usable all through it's range and is sharp at most apertures above wide open at 16mm.

The reason the above poster is posting such tripe is

  • Lack of experience (24 hours...)
  • Lack of knowledge (shooting uncorrected raw?)
  • Bizarre self justification??? I dont know its just 99% nonsense

Obviously as you are so convinced of being right, and as you have no doubt compared the two lenses side by side ?  Why don't you upload a few pictures taken with SEL1650PZ at 16 mm [or 20 mm for comparison sake] focal length and f5.6 aperture, so that everyone can have a good laugh?

Annex Regular Member • Posts: 194
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?
1
that 24 hrs ownership was sufficient to help me to make my mind up.

and the new low cost line-up of NEX 3 and NEX 5 cameras that will hit the market before Christmas 2013 will be much smaller than the current NEX 5R in order to compete with Panasonic and Olympus 4/3 sensor cameras.

I bet when the NEX 7 replacement comes out in May / June this year, it will come out with a completely different standard lens

Please keep posting - I always enjoy a good laugh.

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blue_skies
blue_skies Forum Pro • Posts: 11,403
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Rickj23 wrote:

In some aspects, you are right ... in others, you might have not had a same chance to try both lenses side by side. The pictures I took in dimly lighten coffee shop [20+ pics. with each lens] were generally taken with 1/10-1/30 sec and 3200 ASA .. Aperture preference and centre spot focus. Both cameras were sitting on mini tripods and shots were taken using IR shutter release.

I have 6 Nikon cameras, so I have purchased the NEX 7 with standard SEL1855 initially to use with my old Nikkor manual lenses. A few months back, I have sold my NEX 7 and instead purchased the NEX 5R with SEL1855 and subsequently [very cheaply at £225.00], I have purchased two NEX 5N twin lens kit cameras, from the Comet hypermarket that was going under.  So, now I have aside of 13 Nikkor lenses ... as well 3 off SEL1855 and two SEL16/f2.8 lenses.

In UK, most camera sellers allow the equipment buyer to return the purchased goods within 10 days for a full refund and exchange the goods within the 28 days period.

I was so disappointed with the SEL1650PZ ... that 24 hrs ownership was sufficient to help me to make my mind up.  And yes, all my Sony E lenses and NEX cameras have the latest Feb 2013 updated firmware ... and yes, my NEX 5R has "all" Play Memories Apps downloaded and installed .... and I'm using the Galaxy Note II and / 3 of my Xooms as the remote monitors / shutters when appropriate.

Coming back to SEL1650PZ ... I did use it in which ever way ... and did find it less useful [and in many ways too fiddly to use] than SEL1855.  I do realise that Sony E lenses are made to price and just as Nikon has recently moved some of their manufacturing facilities from Thailand to Laos, Sony is no doubt looking for a way to reduce the costs as well.  After all, the SEL1855 lens supplied with the NEX 7 was made in Japan ... and the general feel of the lens and the image quality through the range was considerably different from the lenses [made in Thailand], that were supplied with NEX 5N/5R.

Someone has mentioned on this forum, that SEL1650PZ was designed for NEX 6 and not the NEX 3N as I have mentioned earlier, as the SEL1650PZ came out 3 months earlier prior to release of NEX 3N.  Somehow missing the point, that I was trying to make.  Sony is shifting lot of manufacturing to Philippines and Vietnam  .... and the new low cost line-up of NEX 3 and NEX 5 cameras that will hit the market before Christmas 2013 will be much smaller than the current NEX 5R in order to compete with Panasonic and Olympus 4/3 sensor cameras. I bet when the NEX 7 replacement comes out in May / June this year, it will come out with a completely different standard lens and ... this lens will become a standard lens for the NEX 6 camera replacement as well. The NEX 6 has some serious flaws e.g. non touch screen, restricted articulation of touch screen due to the location of EVF etc. I really could nor see the reason for fixed EVF in NEX 6, when for a little more money, the EVF could have been articulated, hen much more useful for macro photography. As well, the NEX 6 flash light with GN6 [in contrast with GN12 on flash supplied with NEX 5R/N], was rather pointless.  Hence, as with NEX 6, I feel that SEL1650PZ is a similar halfway house effort. Sony have brought out this lens, for the sake of bringing out something new, not necessarily "something better".

I am not sure what ISO 3200 and 1/10th sec prove in a dimly lit coffeeshop. Poor result and subject blur?

Lens manufacturing has little to do with the design. Perhaps QA, but even that should not matter, based on design and test principles.

The two lenses are quite different in size, and therefore the optical behavior is (noticeably) different.

The 1855 needs little SW correction and the 1650 needs a lot.

At the extremes, <18mm and >50mm, both lenses start to become weak, but the 1650 is weaker, especially in the far corners. Again, this depends on scene and subject distance, but side-by-side you can spot the differences.

Center sharpness is comparable, imo. I would even give a nod to the 1650 for being a tad more contrasty, but I don't have enough comparison shots to make a call. As I said earlier, I would consider these two kit lenses near equivalent in mid range and mid aperture.

Fwiw, using SW corrections for a compact optical zoom lens is nothing new - this has been done for many years to the even smaller P&S cameras.

And no, the Nex-7N will not get another kit lens. Perhaps the 'G' lens can be bundled with a Nex-body, but I don't think Sony will release both with an initial discount. Only when sales are lagging.

And the GN number of the 5R/5N is 7, and not 12.

And the rest of your message is lost on me - what are you trying to say? Sony has released smaller bodies (3 series) and larger, full featured, bodies (6, 7 series), and the Sony lens roadmap has been pretty much followed thus far, after an early revision was made. In addition to the kit and tele zoom, there have been both compact and high performance prime, and now we are expecting a high performance prime, and possible a fast 85mm prime.

Yes, the Nex line has exceeded expectation, and is a priority of sorts, even economy and Sony are struggling. I don't think Sony will abandon Nex users for a while to come. There is no 'hap-hazard' approach here by Sony.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

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Mark K
Mark K Veteran Member • Posts: 5,677
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?
1

I am the only happy owner here..1650 came with Nex 6 and worked on my 5n..very versatile with good range. If image quality is your major concern, simply use prime lenses

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Mark K

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Rickj23 Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

blue_skies wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

In some aspects, you are right ... in others, you might have not had a same chance to try both lenses side by side. The pictures I took in dimly lighten coffee shop [20+ pics. with each lens] were generally taken with 1/10-1/30 sec and 3200 ASA .. Aperture preference and centre spot focus. Both cameras were sitting on mini tripods and shots were taken using IR shutter release.

I have 6 Nikon cameras, so I have purchased the NEX 7 with standard SEL1855 initially to use with my old Nikkor manual lenses. A few months back, I have sold my NEX 7 and instead purchased the NEX 5R with SEL1855 and subsequently [very cheaply at £225.00], I have purchased two NEX 5N twin lens kit cameras, from the Comet hypermarket that was going under.  So, now I have aside of 13 Nikkor lenses ... as well 3 off SEL1855 and two SEL16/f2.8 lenses.

In UK, most camera sellers allow the equipment buyer to return the purchased goods within 10 days for a full refund and exchange the goods within the 28 days period.

I was so disappointed with the SEL1650PZ ... that 24 hrs ownership was sufficient to help me to make my mind up.  And yes, all my Sony E lenses and NEX cameras have the latest Feb 2013 updated firmware ... and yes, my NEX 5R has "all" Play Memories Apps downloaded and installed .... and I'm using the Galaxy Note II and / 3 of my Xooms as the remote monitors / shutters when appropriate.

Coming back to SEL1650PZ ... I did use it in which ever way ... and did find it less useful [and in many ways too fiddly to use] than SEL1855.  I do realise that Sony E lenses are made to price and just as Nikon has recently moved some of their manufacturing facilities from Thailand to Laos, Sony is no doubt looking for a way to reduce the costs as well.  After all, the SEL1855 lens supplied with the NEX 7 was made in Japan ... and the general feel of the lens and the image quality through the range was considerably different from the lenses [made in Thailand], that were supplied with NEX 5N/5R.

Someone has mentioned on this forum, that SEL1650PZ was designed for NEX 6 and not the NEX 3N as I have mentioned earlier, as the SEL1650PZ came out 3 months earlier prior to release of NEX 3N.  Somehow missing the point, that I was trying to make.  Sony is shifting lot of manufacturing to Philippines and Vietnam  .... and the new low cost line-up of NEX 3 and NEX 5 cameras that will hit the market before Christmas 2013 will be much smaller than the current NEX 5R in order to compete with Panasonic and Olympus 4/3 sensor cameras. I bet when the NEX 7 replacement comes out in May / June this year, it will come out with a completely different standard lens and ... this lens will become a standard lens for the NEX 6 camera replacement as well. The NEX 6 has some serious flaws e.g. non touch screen, restricted articulation of touch screen due to the location of EVF etc. I really could nor see the reason for fixed EVF in NEX 6, when for a little more money, the EVF could have been articulated, hen much more useful for macro photography. As well, the NEX 6 flash light with GN6 [in contrast with GN12 on flash supplied with NEX 5R/N], was rather pointless.  Hence, as with NEX 6, I feel that SEL1650PZ is a similar halfway house effort. Sony have brought out this lens, for the sake of bringing out something new, not necessarily "something better".

I am not sure what ISO 3200 and 1/10th sec prove in a dimly lit coffeeshop. Poor result and subject blur?

Lens manufacturing has little to do with the design. Perhaps QA, but even that should not matter, based on design and test principles.

The two lenses are quite different in size, and therefore the optical behavior is (noticeably) different.

The 1855 needs little SW correction and the 1650 needs a lot.

At the extremes, <18mm and >50mm, both lenses start to become weak, but the 1650 is weaker, especially in the far corners. Again, this depends on scene and subject distance, but side-by-side you can spot the differences.

Center sharpness is comparable, imo. I would even give a nod to the 1650 for being a tad more contrasty, but I don't have enough comparison shots to make a call. As I said earlier, I would consider these two kit lenses near equivalent in mid range and mid aperture.

Fwiw, using SW corrections for a compact optical zoom lens is nothing new - this has been done for many years to the even smaller P&S cameras.

And no, the Nex-7N will not get another kit lens. Perhaps the 'G' lens can be bundled with a Nex-body, but I don't think Sony will release both with an initial discount. Only when sales are lagging.

And the GN number of the 5R/5N is 7, and not 12.

And the rest of your message is lost on me - what are you trying to say? Sony has released smaller bodies (3 series) and larger, full featured, bodies (6, 7 series), and the Sony lens roadmap has been pretty much followed thus far, after an early revision was made. In addition to the kit and tele zoom, there have been both compact and high performance prime, and now we are expecting a high performance prime, and possible a fast 85mm prime.

Yes, the Nex line has exceeded expectation, and is a priority of sorts, even economy and Sony are struggling. I don't think Sony will abandon Nex users for a while to come. There is no 'hap-hazard' approach here by Sony.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

**** The 1855 needs little SW correction and the 1650 needs a lot.

At the extremes, <18mm and >50mm, both lenses start to become weak, but the 1650 is weaker, especially in the far corners. Again, this depends on scene and subject distance, but side-by-side you can spot the differences.

Somehow I missed the point of your argument here !

As far as taking shots with the both lenses in the dim lighten coffee shop, I have made quite a few comparative macro shots of well lighten garden plants and a few outdoor portraits.

To my mind the SEL1650PZ has clearly been designed with NEX 3N in mind ... it works with 3N in the same way as all compact Sony [and Canon] cameras work with build in zooms .... i.e. the SEL1650PZ is operated by the lever in front of the shutter button.  This lens has never meant to be used with NEX 5R, 6 or 7.  After all, what is the point of making a compact PZ lens for camera body that is the size of NEX 6?

The Sony Corporation is struggling on all sides .... the camera side is probably one of their more profitable enterprises by comparison with computers,  3D TVs and smart phones.

But seeing the NEX 3N with SEL1650PZ ... and the NEX 3N specification downgraded in every possible way [low res LCD, much lower ASA range, lower continuous frame speed, lower HD frame speed etc.] makes me think that Sony has lost is with the current NEX 3N release.

With regard to a Japanese made SEL1655 [black] that is still currently available ... and the SEL1655 silver anodised Thai made lens that is shipped with NEX 5R .... it is not the same lens in the different colour as you suggest.  Although that both lenses have the same number of elements and the same grouping .... they feel and perform differently.

A bit like comparing BMW made in US with BMW made in Bavaria. The US made BMW will spend 3x as much time in the workshop as would the German made BMW .... yet the advertising campaign will tell you that they are both made to same exacting standards.  I have been there ... and have the tee shirt to prove it.

Rickj23 Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Mark K wrote:

I am the only happy owner here..1650 came with Nex 6 and worked on my 5n..very versatile with good range. If image quality is your major concern, simply use prime lenses

-- hide signature --

Mark K

I thought that "image quality" is the "major concern" for anyone buying the camera !

Why pay extra for the camera with a kit lens that performs worse than the older kit lens. N.B. as NEX 6 is still supplied with the older SEL1855 as the £100.00 [$150.00] cheaper option?  And indeed, why not buy NEX 6 body only and buy the relevant prime lens at the same time ?

Rickj23 Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

blue_skies wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

In some aspects, you are right ... in others, you might have not had a same chance to try both lenses side by side. The pictures I took in dimly lighten coffee shop [20+ pics. with each lens] were generally taken with 1/10-1/30 sec and 3200 ASA .. Aperture preference and centre spot focus. Both cameras were sitting on mini tripods and shots were taken using IR shutter release.

I have 6 Nikon cameras, so I have purchased the NEX 7 with standard SEL1855 initially to use with my old Nikkor manual lenses. A few months back, I have sold my NEX 7 and instead purchased the NEX 5R with SEL1855 and subsequently [very cheaply at £225.00], I have purchased two NEX 5N twin lens kit cameras, from the Comet hypermarket that was going under.  So, now I have aside of 13 Nikkor lenses ... as well 3 off SEL1855 and two SEL16/f2.8 lenses.

In UK, most camera sellers allow the equipment buyer to return the purchased goods within 10 days for a full refund and exchange the goods within the 28 days period.

I was so disappointed with the SEL1650PZ ... that 24 hrs ownership was sufficient to help me to make my mind up.  And yes, all my Sony E lenses and NEX cameras have the latest Feb 2013 updated firmware ... and yes, my NEX 5R has "all" Play Memories Apps downloaded and installed .... and I'm using the Galaxy Note II and / 3 of my Xooms as the remote monitors / shutters when appropriate.

Coming back to SEL1650PZ ... I did use it in which ever way ... and did find it less useful [and in many ways too fiddly to use] than SEL1855.  I do realise that Sony E lenses are made to price and just as Nikon has recently moved some of their manufacturing facilities from Thailand to Laos, Sony is no doubt looking for a way to reduce the costs as well.  After all, the SEL1855 lens supplied with the NEX 7 was made in Japan ... and the general feel of the lens and the image quality through the range was considerably different from the lenses [made in Thailand], that were supplied with NEX 5N/5R.

Someone has mentioned on this forum, that SEL1650PZ was designed for NEX 6 and not the NEX 3N as I have mentioned earlier, as the SEL1650PZ came out 3 months earlier prior to release of NEX 3N.  Somehow missing the point, that I was trying to make.  Sony is shifting lot of manufacturing to Philippines and Vietnam  .... and the new low cost line-up of NEX 3 and NEX 5 cameras that will hit the market before Christmas 2013 will be much smaller than the current NEX 5R in order to compete with Panasonic and Olympus 4/3 sensor cameras. I bet when the NEX 7 replacement comes out in May / June this year, it will come out with a completely different standard lens and ... this lens will become a standard lens for the NEX 6 camera replacement as well. The NEX 6 has some serious flaws e.g. non touch screen, restricted articulation of touch screen due to the location of EVF etc. I really could nor see the reason for fixed EVF in NEX 6, when for a little more money, the EVF could have been articulated, hen much more useful for macro photography. As well, the NEX 6 flash light with GN6 [in contrast with GN12 on flash supplied with NEX 5R/N], was rather pointless.  Hence, as with NEX 6, I feel that SEL1650PZ is a similar halfway house effort. Sony have brought out this lens, for the sake of bringing out something new, not necessarily "something better".

I am not sure what ISO 3200 and 1/10th sec prove in a dimly lit coffeeshop. Poor result and subject blur?

Lens manufacturing has little to do with the design. Perhaps QA, but even that should not matter, based on design and test principles.

The two lenses are quite different in size, and therefore the optical behavior is (noticeably) different.

The 1855 needs little SW correction and the 1650 needs a lot.

At the extremes, <18mm and >50mm, both lenses start to become weak, but the 1650 is weaker, especially in the far corners. Again, this depends on scene and subject distance, but side-by-side you can spot the differences.

Center sharpness is comparable, imo. I would even give a nod to the 1650 for being a tad more contrasty, but I don't have enough comparison shots to make a call. As I said earlier, I would consider these two kit lenses near equivalent in mid range and mid aperture.

Fwiw, using SW corrections for a compact optical zoom lens is nothing new - this has been done for many years to the even smaller P&S cameras.

And no, the Nex-7N will not get another kit lens. Perhaps the 'G' lens can be bundled with a Nex-body, but I don't think Sony will release both with an initial discount. Only when sales are lagging.

And the GN number of the 5R/5N is 7, and not 12.

And the rest of your message is lost on me - what are you trying to say? Sony has released smaller bodies (3 series) and larger, full featured, bodies (6, 7 series), and the Sony lens roadmap has been pretty much followed thus far, after an early revision was made. In addition to the kit and tele zoom, there have been both compact and high performance prime, and now we are expecting a high performance prime, and possible a fast 85mm prime.

Yes, the Nex line has exceeded expectation, and is a priority of sorts, even economy and Sony are struggling. I don't think Sony will abandon Nex users for a while to come. There is no 'hap-hazard' approach here by Sony.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

*** the comment on NEX flash guide numbers e.g. NEX 5R /5N .... GN12 ?

Please kindly see the DPReview comparison website:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_nex6&products=sony_nex5r

Whilst I haven't checked it in person with the flash meter ... I trust DPReview to get it right.

blue_skies
blue_skies Forum Pro • Posts: 11,403
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Rickj23 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

In some aspects, you are right ... in others, you might have not had a same chance to try both lenses side by side. The pictures I took in dimly lighten coffee shop [20+ pics. with each lens] were generally taken with 1/10-1/30 sec and 3200 ASA .. Aperture preference and centre spot focus. Both cameras were sitting on mini tripods and shots were taken using IR shutter release.

I have 6 Nikon cameras, so I have purchased the NEX 7 with standard SEL1855 initially to use with my old Nikkor manual lenses. A few months back, I have sold my NEX 7 and instead purchased the NEX 5R with SEL1855 and subsequently [very cheaply at £225.00], I have purchased two NEX 5N twin lens kit cameras, from the Comet hypermarket that was going under.  So, now I have aside of 13 Nikkor lenses ... as well 3 off SEL1855 and two SEL16/f2.8 lenses.

In UK, most camera sellers allow the equipment buyer to return the purchased goods within 10 days for a full refund and exchange the goods within the 28 days period.

I was so disappointed with the SEL1650PZ ... that 24 hrs ownership was sufficient to help me to make my mind up.  And yes, all my Sony E lenses and NEX cameras have the latest Feb 2013 updated firmware ... and yes, my NEX 5R has "all" Play Memories Apps downloaded and installed .... and I'm using the Galaxy Note II and / 3 of my Xooms as the remote monitors / shutters when appropriate.

Coming back to SEL1650PZ ... I did use it in which ever way ... and did find it less useful [and in many ways too fiddly to use] than SEL1855.  I do realise that Sony E lenses are made to price and just as Nikon has recently moved some of their manufacturing facilities from Thailand to Laos, Sony is no doubt looking for a way to reduce the costs as well.  After all, the SEL1855 lens supplied with the NEX 7 was made in Japan ... and the general feel of the lens and the image quality through the range was considerably different from the lenses [made in Thailand], that were supplied with NEX 5N/5R.

Someone has mentioned on this forum, that SEL1650PZ was designed for NEX 6 and not the NEX 3N as I have mentioned earlier, as the SEL1650PZ came out 3 months earlier prior to release of NEX 3N.  Somehow missing the point, that I was trying to make.  Sony is shifting lot of manufacturing to Philippines and Vietnam  .... and the new low cost line-up of NEX 3 and NEX 5 cameras that will hit the market before Christmas 2013 will be much smaller than the current NEX 5R in order to compete with Panasonic and Olympus 4/3 sensor cameras. I bet when the NEX 7 replacement comes out in May / June this year, it will come out with a completely different standard lens and ... this lens will become a standard lens for the NEX 6 camera replacement as well. The NEX 6 has some serious flaws e.g. non touch screen, restricted articulation of touch screen due to the location of EVF etc. I really could nor see the reason for fixed EVF in NEX 6, when for a little more money, the EVF could have been articulated, hen much more useful for macro photography. As well, the NEX 6 flash light with GN6 [in contrast with GN12 on flash supplied with NEX 5R/N], was rather pointless.  Hence, as with NEX 6, I feel that SEL1650PZ is a similar halfway house effort. Sony have brought out this lens, for the sake of bringing out something new, not necessarily "something better".

I am not sure what ISO 3200 and 1/10th sec prove in a dimly lit coffeeshop. Poor result and subject blur?

Lens manufacturing has little to do with the design. Perhaps QA, but even that should not matter, based on design and test principles.

The two lenses are quite different in size, and therefore the optical behavior is (noticeably) different.

The 1855 needs little SW correction and the 1650 needs a lot.

At the extremes, <18mm and >50mm, both lenses start to become weak, but the 1650 is weaker, especially in the far corners. Again, this depends on scene and subject distance, but side-by-side you can spot the differences.

Center sharpness is comparable, imo. I would even give a nod to the 1650 for being a tad more contrasty, but I don't have enough comparison shots to make a call. As I said earlier, I would consider these two kit lenses near equivalent in mid range and mid aperture.

Fwiw, using SW corrections for a compact optical zoom lens is nothing new - this has been done for many years to the even smaller P&S cameras.

And no, the Nex-7N will not get another kit lens. Perhaps the 'G' lens can be bundled with a Nex-body, but I don't think Sony will release both with an initial discount. Only when sales are lagging.

And the GN number of the 5R/5N is 7, and not 12.

And the rest of your message is lost on me - what are you trying to say? Sony has released smaller bodies (3 series) and larger, full featured, bodies (6, 7 series), and the Sony lens roadmap has been pretty much followed thus far, after an early revision was made. In addition to the kit and tele zoom, there have been both compact and high performance prime, and now we are expecting a high performance prime, and possible a fast 85mm prime.

Yes, the Nex line has exceeded expectation, and is a priority of sorts, even economy and Sony are struggling. I don't think Sony will abandon Nex users for a while to come. There is no 'hap-hazard' approach here by Sony.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

**** The 1855 needs little SW correction and the 1650 needs a lot.

At the extremes, <18mm and >50mm, both lenses start to become weak, but the 1650 is weaker, especially in the far corners. Again, this depends on scene and subject distance, but side-by-side you can spot the differences.

Somehow I missed the point of your argument here !

You are harping on a kit zoom lens that is just a kit zoom lens. It is a tradeoff versus the larger kit zoom lens, but both are zoom lenses and both are compromised by cost and features, alike all the kit zoom lenses by manufacturers - the pricing of such a kit lens is a constraint.

Higher end zoom lenses exist for most brands, but at 3x the price, because of the increased cost.

As far as taking shots with the both lenses in the dim lighten coffee shop, I have made quite a few comparative macro shots of well lighten garden plants and a few outdoor portraits.

To my mind the SEL1650PZ has clearly been designed with NEX 3N in mind ... it works with 3N in the same way as all compact Sony [and Canon] cameras work with build in zooms .... i.e. the SEL1650PZ is operated by the lever in front of the shutter button.  This lens has never meant to be used with NEX 5R, 6 or 7.  After all, what is the point of making a compact PZ lens for camera body that is the size of NEX 6?

My Nex-6 has a zoom-control button, and the CIZ switches on automatically, as is the display bar. None of this is true for the 5N or the 7. You think this is an afterthought and that the electronic zoom lenses were only meant for the 3 series?

The Sony Corporation is struggling on all sides .... the camera side is probably one of their more profitable enterprises by comparison with computers,  3D TVs and smart phones.

But seeing the NEX 3N with SEL1650PZ ... and the NEX 3N specification downgraded in every possible way [low res LCD, much lower ASA range, lower continuous frame speed, lower HD frame speed etc.] makes me think that Sony has lost is with the current NEX 3N release.

I am sorry if Sony has wronged you. The 3N is meant to be a price leader, and marketing is very careful to have the 3, 5, 6 and 7 series have distinguishable features - it is what they do.

With regard to a Japanese made SEL1855 [black] that is still currently available ... and the SEL1855 silver anodised Thai made lens that is shipped with NEX 5R .... it is not the same lens in the different colour as you suggest.  Although that both lenses have the same number of elements and the same grouping .... they feel and perform differently.

I am sure that cost-cutting measures have come into play, normal for products over their lifetime. Optically, I expect no differences however. And, fwiw, the silver version from Thailand existed before the black version.

A bit like comparing BMW made in US with BMW made in Bavaria. The US made BMW will spend 3x as much time in the workshop as would the German made BMW .... yet the advertising campaign will tell you that they are both made to same exacting standards.  I have been there ... and have the tee shirt to prove it.

But you are feeding into a myth - like when people paid extra to dealers for Honda's with a J (Japan) in their VIN number when they started US production.

Can you substantiate your opinions - post some of the 20 or so comparable pictures with your conclusions. And preferable your non-ISO 3200 garden pics as well?

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Cheers,
Henry

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blue_skies
blue_skies Forum Pro • Posts: 11,403
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Rickj23 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

And the GN number of the 5R/5N is 7, and not 12.

Please kindly see the DPReview comparison website:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_nex6&products=sony_nex5r

Whilst I haven't checked it in person with the flash meter ... I trust DPReview to get it right.

Maybe DPreview got it wrong?

The official Sony name designation is HVL-F7S, and the 7 stands for the GN, like the HVL-F20S, HVL-F20AM and the HVL-F43AM.

HVL-F7S

HVL-F7S

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Cheers,
Henry

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offtraildog Regular Member • Posts: 349
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

I typically shoot ISO 100 and 5.6 to 11 for expansive landscapes .. i believe this is probably the sweet spot aperture range for the lens .... so don't have any wide open.  With the stabilization, i can shot at 1/30 really and get sharp images  .. anything lower, I brace it against something or use a small gorillapod.

curious why you are shooting at such a wide aperture .. just trying to get a really small DOF?

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salla30
OP salla30 Senior Member • Posts: 2,596
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Np. if you can post any infinity shots, would be greatly appreciated.

It's just that I can compare better the distortions viz my 18-55 lens wideopen at infinity all over the frame or at least left and right and top.

I tend to shoot open as poss within sensible reason, to get max shutter speed and also i invariably have specs showing up (sensor dust) if i go too high. Need to get another sensor pen, lost the last one i had but it worked miracles!

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salla30
OP salla30 Senior Member • Posts: 2,596
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Rickj23 wrote:

salla30 wrote:

Well, you could always search the forum or Google, it's only been discussed one gazillion times ; the 5N is no different from any other Nex with a 1650 , with the exception of internal lens correction, or lack of it , in a few models .

The variables to look out for is competence variations .

thanks. perhaps you can point me to some forum link discussion threads (I did search of course but the search criteria varies wildly depending on nomenclature)?

The SEL1855 is a better lens for still photography by far.  The SEL1650 PZ has too much distortion at 16-20 mm and it is not very sharp fully extended.  It is not that compact either, the moment you switch the camera on.  The PZ lens was developed specially for the new range of the cameras that were to follow the NEX 3N it was never meant to be used with the upper range of the NEX cameras.  As Sony fell on the hard times .. they have decided to standardise instead of using 3 different standard lenses (NEX 7 uses black  SEL1855 that is made in Japan).  Optically, the PZ lens is really only usable within the 20 to 40 mm range and only with f11 or higher apertures.  I had that lens 24  hours and tried it on macro and portraiture / candids in the low light, no flash in my locall coffee shop ... side by side with SEL1855 on two NEX 5N cameras (I have one 5R and two 5N cameras).  Next day I went back to John Lewis in London and got my money back.  The lens is slow on start up, slow to operate, has the non standard 40.5 mm filter thread etc.

excellent. thanks for candid opinion.

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OP salla30 Senior Member • Posts: 2,596
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

i get you. it is a LOT of money. Having never bought a lens before, it's definitely overkill , methinks!

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OP salla30 Senior Member • Posts: 2,596
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Thanks for all the informed opinion guys!

I have decided not to get the 16-50pz and will invest in primes for now. If there comes along a more compact zoom with similar range to the 18-55 kit i have, with better iq in all areas, i will probably go for it if its not stupidly expensive, but I definitely don't want to take a potential step backwards in IQ for the sake of space. I can live with the manual zoom also, and i have the RX100 for "compact moments".

Thanks again for helping me make my mind up.

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GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,549
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

Rickj23 wrote:

Mark K wrote:

I am the only happy owner here..1650 came with Nex 6 and worked on my 5n..very versatile with good range. If image quality is your major concern, simply use prime lenses

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Mark K

I thought that "image quality" is the "major concern" for anyone buying the camera !

But image quality at any cost?  There is a point of diminishing returns.

Why pay extra for the camera with a kit lens that performs worse than the older kit lens.

Some people are concerned with size as well.  So, you can have a compromise and compactness.

And even if the 16-50 is worse than the 18-55 (I think the jury's still out on this one), it's still in the ballpark of kit lenses, even compared to bulky DSLRs.  I've seen posted photos, they just don't look bad.

N.B. as NEX 6 is still supplied with the older SEL1855 as the £100.00 [$150.00] cheaper option?  And indeed, why not buy NEX 6 body only and buy the relevant prime lens at the same time ?

For some people, it's just going to be more convenient to have a zoom, particularly when traveling and not necessarily having the time to stop and fiddle with the camera and swap lenses, etc.  There are times when I'm lucky to get photos at all; I'd be left behind if I had to stop long enough to swap lenses....  And then there are times where I have all the time in the world.

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Gary W.

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ijustloveshooting
ijustloveshooting Senior Member • Posts: 2,997
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

i had both lenses on my nex5n...18-55 is sharper generally, espescially at F6.3 which is the biggest ap. on both lenses, 18-55 is sharper....also, at tele end, bokeh of 18-55 is much better, let's say, with 18-55mm, your object is better isolated from background...

i also had problems with 16-50mm on nex5N despite i updated the fw issued for this lens..however, at smaller apertures, as far as i remember F11 and smaller aps, lens simply refuses focusing,,,...but portability of  16-50mm is great.

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GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,549
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

blue_skies wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

.... standard lens for the NEX 6 camera replacement as well. The NEX 6 has some serious flaws e.g. non touch screen, restricted articulation of touch screen due to the location of EVF etc. I really could nor see the reason for fixed EVF in NEX 6, when for a little more money, the EVF could have been articulated, hen much more useful for macro photography. As well, the NEX 6 flash light with GN6 [in contrast with GN12 on flash supplied with NEX 5R/N],

GN7, as someone else posted.  It's useful for fill light, and flash if you need it.  If you need more flash, at least the 6 can handle "real" flashes.  Anyway, the 6's built-in flash is no more or less useful than the 5's.

was rather pointless.  Hence, as with NEX 6, I feel that SEL1650PZ is a similar halfway house effort. Sony have brought out this lens, for the sake of bringing out something new, not necessarily "something better".

There were a number of people complaining about the size of Nex lenses (perhaps m43 fans, mostly?), so my guess would be that they wanted to compete with the m43 collapsible lens.  I can't see that I see anymore "Nex lenses are huge!" posts, not like before!

...

Somehow I missed the point of your argument here !

You are harping on a kit zoom lens that is just a kit zoom lens. It is a tradeoff versus the larger kit zoom lens, but both are zoom lenses and both are compromised by cost and features, alike all the kit zoom lenses by manufacturers - the pricing of such a kit lens is a constraint.

And all zooms are compromised over primes.

Higher end zoom lenses exist for most brands, but at 3x the price, because of the increased cost.

As far as taking shots with the both lenses in the dim lighten coffee shop, I have made quite a few comparative macro shots of well lighten garden plants and a few outdoor portraits.

To my mind the SEL1650PZ has clearly been designed with NEX 3N in mind ... it works with 3N in the same way as all compact Sony [and Canon] cameras work with build in zooms .... i.e. the SEL1650PZ is operated by the lever in front of the shutter button.  This lens has never meant to be used with NEX 5R, 6 or 7.  After all, what is the point of making a compact PZ lens for camera body that is the size of NEX 6?

My Nex-6 has a zoom-control button, and the CIZ switches on automatically, as is the display bar. None of this is true for the 5N or the 7. You think this is an afterthought and that the electronic zoom lenses were only meant for the 3 series?

The Sony Corporation is struggling on all sides .... the camera side is probably one of their more profitable enterprises by comparison with computers,  3D TVs and smart phones.

So... the camera side is doing the right things?  

But seeing the NEX 3N with SEL1650PZ ... and the NEX 3N specification downgraded in every possible way [low res LCD, much lower ASA range, lower continuous frame speed, lower HD frame speed etc.] makes me think that Sony has lost is with the current NEX 3N release.

I am sorry if Sony has wronged you. The 3N is meant to be a price leader, and marketing is very careful to have the 3, 5, 6 and 7 series have distinguishable features - it is what they do.

They should have lower-priced models if they can make a profit doing so.  Electronic products tend to be price-sensitive with most buyers.  Few are going to cough up the extra needed for the 6 much less the 7.

With regard to a Japanese made SEL1855 [black] that is still currently available ... and the SEL1855 silver anodised Thai made lens that is shipped with NEX 5R .... it is not the same lens in the different colour as you suggest.  Although that both lenses have the same number of elements and the same grouping .... they feel and perform differently.

I am sure that cost-cutting measures have come into play, normal for products over their lifetime. Optically, I expect no differences however. And, fwiw, the silver version from Thailand existed before the black version.

I thought production only switched from Thailand to Japan due to the flood destroying their factory in Thailand?

I have no beef with my Thai-made 18-55.

A bit like comparing BMW made in US with BMW made in Bavaria. The US made BMW will spend 3x as much time in the workshop as would the German made BMW .... yet the advertising campaign will tell you that they are both made to same exacting standards.  I have been there ... and have the tee shirt to prove it.

3x!  How do they stay in business?

My VW is made in Germany, but no one has been able to say that Mexican made VWs are that much worse, if any (at least on the VW forums I frequent).  (Many parts are probably still made overseas.  Even the German-made cars are going to have parts made other than in Germany.)

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Gary W.

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Rickj23 Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

blue_skies wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

In some aspects, you are right ... in others, you might have not had a same chance to try both lenses side by side. The pictures I took in dimly lighten coffee shop [20+ pics. with each lens] were generally taken with 1/10-1/30 sec and 3200 ASA .. Aperture preference and centre spot focus. Both cameras were sitting on mini tripods and shots were taken using IR shutter release.

I have 6 Nikon cameras, so I have purchased the NEX 7 with standard SEL1855 initially to use with my old Nikkor manual lenses. A few months back, I have sold my NEX 7 and instead purchased the NEX 5R with SEL1855 and subsequently [very cheaply at £225.00], I have purchased two NEX 5N twin lens kit cameras, from the Comet hypermarket that was going under.  So, now I have aside of 13 Nikkor lenses ... as well 3 off SEL1855 and two SEL16/f2.8 lenses.

In UK, most camera sellers allow the equipment buyer to return the purchased goods within 10 days for a full refund and exchange the goods within the 28 days period.

I was so disappointed with the SEL1650PZ ... that 24 hrs ownership was sufficient to help me to make my mind up.  And yes, all my Sony E lenses and NEX cameras have the latest Feb 2013 updated firmware ... and yes, my NEX 5R has "all" Play Memories Apps downloaded and installed .... and I'm using the Galaxy Note II and / 3 of my Xooms as the remote monitors / shutters when appropriate.

Coming back to SEL1650PZ ... I did use it in which ever way ... and did find it less useful [and in many ways too fiddly to use] than SEL1855.  I do realise that Sony E lenses are made to price and just as Nikon has recently moved some of their manufacturing facilities from Thailand to Laos, Sony is no doubt looking for a way to reduce the costs as well.  After all, the SEL1855 lens supplied with the NEX 7 was made in Japan ... and the general feel of the lens and the image quality through the range was considerably different from the lenses [made in Thailand], that were supplied with NEX 5N/5R.

Someone has mentioned on this forum, that SEL1650PZ was designed for NEX 6 and not the NEX 3N as I have mentioned earlier, as the SEL1650PZ came out 3 months earlier prior to release of NEX 3N.  Somehow missing the point, that I was trying to make.  Sony is shifting lot of manufacturing to Philippines and Vietnam  .... and the new low cost line-up of NEX 3 and NEX 5 cameras that will hit the market before Christmas 2013 will be much smaller than the current NEX 5R in order to compete with Panasonic and Olympus 4/3 sensor cameras. I bet when the NEX 7 replacement comes out in May / June this year, it will come out with a completely different standard lens and ... this lens will become a standard lens for the NEX 6 camera replacement as well. The NEX 6 has some serious flaws e.g. non touch screen, restricted articulation of touch screen due to the location of EVF etc. I really could nor see the reason for fixed EVF in NEX 6, when for a little more money, the EVF could have been articulated, hen much more useful for macro photography. As well, the NEX 6 flash light with GN6 [in contrast with GN12 on flash supplied with NEX 5R/N], was rather pointless.  Hence, as with NEX 6, I feel that SEL1650PZ is a similar halfway house effort. Sony have brought out this lens, for the sake of bringing out something new, not necessarily "something better".

I am not sure what ISO 3200 and 1/10th sec prove in a dimly lit coffeeshop. Poor result and subject blur?

Lens manufacturing has little to do with the design. Perhaps QA, but even that should not matter, based on design and test principles.

The two lenses are quite different in size, and therefore the optical behavior is (noticeably) different.

The 1855 needs little SW correction and the 1650 needs a lot.

At the extremes, <18mm and >50mm, both lenses start to become weak, but the 1650 is weaker, especially in the far corners. Again, this depends on scene and subject distance, but side-by-side you can spot the differences.

Center sharpness is comparable, imo. I would even give a nod to the 1650 for being a tad more contrasty, but I don't have enough comparison shots to make a call. As I said earlier, I would consider these two kit lenses near equivalent in mid range and mid aperture.

Fwiw, using SW corrections for a compact optical zoom lens is nothing new - this has been done for many years to the even smaller P&S cameras.

And no, the Nex-7N will not get another kit lens. Perhaps the 'G' lens can be bundled with a Nex-body, but I don't think Sony will release both with an initial discount. Only when sales are lagging.

And the GN number of the 5R/5N is 7, and not 12.

And the rest of your message is lost on me - what are you trying to say? Sony has released smaller bodies (3 series) and larger, full featured, bodies (6, 7 series), and the Sony lens roadmap has been pretty much followed thus far, after an early revision was made. In addition to the kit and tele zoom, there have been both compact and high performance prime, and now we are expecting a high performance prime, and possible a fast 85mm prime.

Yes, the Nex line has exceeded expectation, and is a priority of sorts, even economy and Sony are struggling. I don't think Sony will abandon Nex users for a while to come. There is no 'hap-hazard' approach here by Sony.

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Cheers,
Henry

**** The 1855 needs little SW correction and the 1650 needs a lot.

At the extremes, <18mm and >50mm, both lenses start to become weak, but the 1650 is weaker, especially in the far corners. Again, this depends on scene and subject distance, but side-by-side you can spot the differences.

Somehow I missed the point of your argument here !

You are harping on a kit zoom lens that is just a kit zoom lens. It is a tradeoff versus the larger kit zoom lens, but both are zoom lenses and both are compromised by cost and features, alike all the kit zoom lenses by manufacturers - the pricing of such a kit lens is a constraint.

Higher end zoom lenses exist for most brands, but at 3x the price, because of the increased cost.

As far as taking shots with the both lenses in the dim lighten coffee shop, I have made quite a few comparative macro shots of well lighten garden plants and a few outdoor portraits.

To my mind the SEL1650PZ has clearly been designed with NEX 3N in mind ... it works with 3N in the same way as all compact Sony [and Canon] cameras work with build in zooms .... i.e. the SEL1650PZ is operated by the lever in front of the shutter button.  This lens has never meant to be used with NEX 5R, 6 or 7.  After all, what is the point of making a compact PZ lens for camera body that is the size of NEX 6?

My Nex-6 has a zoom-control button, and the CIZ switches on automatically, as is the display bar. None of this is true for the 5N or the 7. You think this is an afterthought and that the electronic zoom lenses were only meant for the 3 series?

The Sony Corporation is struggling on all sides .... the camera side is probably one of their more profitable enterprises by comparison with computers,  3D TVs and smart phones.

But seeing the NEX 3N with SEL1650PZ ... and the NEX 3N specification downgraded in every possible way [low res LCD, much lower ASA range, lower continuous frame speed, lower HD frame speed etc.] makes me think that Sony has lost is with the current NEX 3N release.

I am sorry if Sony has wronged you. The 3N is meant to be a price leader, and marketing is very careful to have the 3, 5, 6 and 7 series have distinguishable features - it is what they do.

With regard to a Japanese made SEL1855 [black] that is still currently available ... and the SEL1855 silver anodised Thai made lens that is shipped with NEX 5R .... it is not the same lens in the different colour as you suggest.  Although that both lenses have the same number of elements and the same grouping .... they feel and perform differently.

I am sure that cost-cutting measures have come into play, normal for products over their lifetime. Optically, I expect no differences however. And, fwiw, the silver version from Thailand existed before the black version.

A bit like comparing BMW made in US with BMW made in Bavaria. The US made BMW will spend 3x as much time in the workshop as would the German made BMW .... yet the advertising campaign will tell you that they are both made to same exacting standards.  I have been there ... and have the tee shirt to prove it.

But you are feeding into a myth - like when people paid extra to dealers for Honda's with a J (Japan) in their VIN number when they started US production.

Can you substantiate your opinions - post some of the 20 or so comparable pictures with your conclusions. And preferable your non-ISO 3200 garden pics as well?

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Cheers,
Henry

Myth about US made BMW cars exists as myth only in USA, in  UK, it is called a reality ....  By mistake [not checking with BMW UK, prior to purchase?] I have bought 3.0L BMW Z4 with a complete spec ... and within it's 3 years usage, the vehicle spent at least 4 months in BMW workshops, had new wiring loom, new Carver, new soft top, drive shaft, starter motor, gasket etc. It was mostly driven on motor way and over the period of 3 years done only 36k miles.  Every time I hit the workshop, I've heard the comments like ... not another one ! A friend of mine had similar problems with US made X5 ...

So where it is made does matter.  Perhaps not to you ... but it does to me.

With regards to garden shots with SEL1650PZ lens?  They were done in day light and with 200 ASA. But that is another story.  As you are trying to convince everyone how great the new kit lens is, should it not be up to you to upload some of your shots with this lens?  Personally, I don't really care about any of the plastic barrelled mickey mouse lenses that I generally bundled with cheaper range of cameras.   I have bought the NEX 5N/5R cameras to use with my old manual Nikkor lenses, that I have bought way back in seventies and eighties to use with Nikon F2S and later with F3 and F4.  The possibility to use the old Nikkor lenses got me to buy the NEX cameras, it was not the love of Sony products.  The compact cameras that I have used prior to NEX purchase, were all Canon made, hence G7, G9 and G12.  I have initially purchased NEX 7, didn't like the menu, didn't like the general setup e.g. size, weight etc. so when NEX 5R came out, I have sold one and bought another.  I liked the NEX 5R so much, that when opportunity came by to buy the NEX 5N twin lens kit at GB £225.00 [US $330 or there around] in the local electrical goods superstore, I bought two NEX 5N twin lens kits.  As far as I am concerned, I will use the kit lenses only for holiday snaps ... and probably keep only the one SEL1855 and sell the other two and sell both SEL16/f2.8 pancake lenses as well. My approach [or philosophy] when it comes to photography is that at least 60% of picture quality is down to equipment, the 20% is probably down to opportunity / luck and 20% down to persons ability.  I have seen great pictures made by beginners using  Hasselblad  or SL66, I haven't seen that many great pictures made by accomplished photographers equipped with APS film cameras.  I realise that with digital imaging, you can do lot in CS5 or CS6 Photoshop, but that I consider cheating.

Back to SEL1650PZ ?  If you like it so much ? Great, buy it ... in UK that lens is £100.00 [$150.00 US] more expensive than SEL1855 e.g. nearly a double the price of the older lens.  Do I think the PZ lens is worth it ? I don't.  Do I think the PZ lens is better than the older 18-55 lens? Definitely not on stills.  Looking at the "sympathetic" combination of the PZ lens with the NEX 3N .... it makes me think that this kit lens was designed to be used with camera like NEX 3N !  It was definitely "not designed" to be used with NEX 5R or \NEX 6 camera.  But that is my "personal opinion".

Rickj23 Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

GaryW wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

Mark K wrote:

I am the only happy owner here..1650 came with Nex 6 and worked on my 5n..very versatile with good range. If image quality is your major concern, simply use prime lenses

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Mark K

I thought that "image quality" is the "major concern" for anyone buying the camera !

But image quality at any cost?  There is a point of diminishing returns.

Why pay extra for the camera with a kit lens that performs worse than the older kit lens.

Some people are concerned with size as well.  So, you can have a compromise and compactness.

And even if the 16-50 is worse than the 18-55 (I think the jury's still out on this one), it's still in the ballpark of kit lenses, even compared to bulky DSLRs.  I've seen posted photos, they just don't look bad.

N.B. as NEX 6 is still supplied with the older SEL1855 as the £100.00 [$150.00] cheaper option?  And indeed, why not buy NEX 6 body only and buy the relevant prime lens at the same time ?

For some people, it's just going to be more convenient to have a zoom, particularly when traveling and not necessarily having the time to stop and fiddle with the camera and swap lenses, etc.  There are times when I'm lucky to get photos at all; I'd be left behind if I had to stop long enough to swap lenses....  And then there are times where I have all the time in the world.

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Gary W.

Yes the zoom is considerably more convenient than fixed focal length lens for travel photography.  But there are people on this forum who expressed their preference for prime lens / lenses. Hence my advise to them was .... buy the NEX body only and if you buy the body and the prime lens from the Sony outlet, or the Sony website "at the same time" ... you will still get the substantial discount [percentually nearly as much discount as if you have bought the camera with the bundled kit lens].

Coming back to zoom lenses ... my preference was and still is for push-pull zoom lenses with a single zoom/focusing ring.  I don't like zoom lenses where you need to first focus and then zoom ... and then refocus ! It is the waste of time and in many cases the "waste of the moment".  As if that wasn't enough, Sony brought out a fiddly PZ kit lens, that for the sake of miniaturisation [or pocketability to some?] .. combines all the worse features in one package.  Then again, perhaps it is just me.  To be able to carry the APS-C camera in my jeans pocket was never a prime consideration, when I decided on the NEX 5R.  The prime consideration was always .... that it makes good pictures in the low light, without the flash  ... so that I can take candid snaps in the crowded street, or bar,  without being noticed, harassed, or in anyway molested.

Rickj23 Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: how does the 16-50 PZ lens compare to the 18-55 kit lens on the NEX 5N specifically?

blue_skies wrote:

Rickj23 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

And the GN number of the 5R/5N is 7, and not 12.

Please kindly see the DPReview comparison website:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_nex6&products=sony_nex5r

Whilst I haven't checked it in person with the flash meter ... I trust DPReview to get it right.

Maybe DPreview got it wrong?

The official Sony name designation is HVL-F7S, and the 7 stands for the GN, like the HVL-F20S, HVL-F20AM and the HVL-F43AM.

HVL-F7S

HVL-F7S

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Cheers,
Henry

Maybe it is wrong, but visually, the head is much larger than the pop up flash on NEX 6 and NEX 7 and I have independently read n one of the magazines that it is comparable to pop up flashes on DSLRs.  There is a considerable size difference between F7S and F20S .... I have seen the F20S. But just as I don't believe that F7S has only GN7, I don't believe that F20S has the GN20 ....

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