To go full frame or not?

Started Apr 8, 2013 | Discussions
nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,451
Re: To go full frame or not?
2

Tastybread wrote:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

I recently replaced my 5N with a 6 because I liked the evf and heard that the sensor could handle noise at higher iso's better. Not disappointed in the least. But lately I've been looking at full frame cameras and the level of detail they can absorb by digging through user photos on Flickr, and I am really tempted to pick one up. Specifically the Nikon D600.

My problem is, I'm having a hard time tipping the scale on what I should do, and thought maybe the community here could share some thoughts that could help me make a dicision. Keep the NEX-6, or sell the lot and pick up the D600?

Main reasons I love the NEX-6
Prefer the layout of controls.
Love and utilize the tilting screen a lot.
Love the wireless trigger app
The focus peak feature
Not huge, but like and use the smile shutter
Image quality
Above all, the size. I have no inhibitions taking my camera everywhere I go.

Reasons I'm interested in the D600
I love low light situations but hate noise.
The image quality is overwhelmingly tempting. So much detail.

I do hate the size however.

I know this seems more favorable towards the nex, but I love the look of photos taken with full frame cameras and don't know when sony will release a FF NEX. But I wonder if I'll take fewer photos because the size of the nikon seems so cumbersome.

Sorry if this seems like a pointless discussion, but I've been circling this decision for a while now and was wondering if any other NEX enthusiats had some thoughts on the matter. Any opinion would be hugely appreciated.

If you hate the size you won't use it.  If you hate the ergonomics you won't use it.

You'll get a pocket camera so you can have it with you when you don't want the big clunker  -- and that will soon be all the time.  Then you'll long for a small, well spec'd camera that really does it all.  Then you'll go back to the camera that felt best in your hands. And you'll be out at least several hundred dollars.

Then again, experience is the best teacher.

-- hide signature --

Hey, it ain't rocket surgery.
I'm experimenting with Quantum Physics and I just discovered that I can completely destr

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OP Tastybread Regular Member • Posts: 107
Re: To go full frame or not?

nevada5 wrote:

Tastybread wrote:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

I recently replaced my 5N with a 6 because I liked the evf and heard that the sensor could handle noise at higher iso's better. Not disappointed in the least. But lately I've been looking at full frame cameras and the level of detail they can absorb by digging through user photos on Flickr, and I am really tempted to pick one up. Specifically the Nikon D600.

My problem is, I'm having a hard time tipping the scale on what I should do, and thought maybe the community here could share some thoughts that could help me make a dicision. Keep the NEX-6, or sell the lot and pick up the D600?

Main reasons I love the NEX-6
Prefer the layout of controls.
Love and utilize the tilting screen a lot.
Love the wireless trigger app
The focus peak feature
Not huge, but like and use the smile shutter
Image quality
Above all, the size. I have no inhibitions taking my camera everywhere I go.

Reasons I'm interested in the D600
I love low light situations but hate noise.
The image quality is overwhelmingly tempting. So much detail.

I do hate the size however.

I know this seems more favorable towards the nex, but I love the look of photos taken with full frame cameras and don't know when sony will release a FF NEX. But I wonder if I'll take fewer photos because the size of the nikon seems so cumbersome.

Sorry if this seems like a pointless discussion, but I've been circling this decision for a while now and was wondering if any other NEX enthusiats had some thoughts on the matter. Any opinion would be hugely appreciated.

If you hate the size you won't use it.  If you hate the ergonomics you won't use it.

You'll get a pocket camera so you can have it with you when you don't want the big clunker  -- and that will soon be all the time.  Then you'll long for a small, well spec'd camera that really does it all.  Then you'll go back to the camera that felt best in your hands. And you'll be out at least several hundred dollars.

Then again, experience is the best teacher.

-- hide signature --

Hey, it ain't rocket surgery.
I'm experimenting with Quantum Physics and I just discovered that I can completely destr

That's so true. My first use of interchangeable lens cameras came in form of a Panasonic GF2. I know that the NEX-6 is far superior and at this point I prefer it. But Some times I think of that GF2 longingly. Took it on a backpacking trip through Europe with my wife and it will forever have an affectionate place in my heart.

Just Having Fun Veteran Member • Posts: 3,869
Lenses are what matter

Most people change bodies every couple years anyway, so you should be safe with a DSLR now and making a switch later.  You want lenses that will last decades.  The hope is Sony will make a body that uses Alpha FF lenses.  I hope they include the great Minolta lenses too like the 80-200mm F/2.8 APO HS which is smaller than any other F/2.8 200mm zoom on the market.

If you want to eventually go FF, Sony, Canon and possibly Nikon are the obvious choices.  Nikon and Canon have a great line of HQ FF lenses, and Sony does too if you include Minolta.

larousse87 Junior Member • Posts: 33
Re: To go full frame or not?

I'm surprised that no one so far has mentioned the Leica M route.  OK, a rangefinder is a completely different creature, but in its own way, so is the D600.  In fact, regarding its size, its "mirror-less" operation, and go-everywhere versatility, the Leica is probably closer to the Sony Nex zeitgeist than the Nikon beast.  I mean, there's the price, sure.  But we are talking technology here, so first let's see what's in the running from a purely photographic point of view.  If you really settle on Leica, you can save your money over time, sell a few lenses, work at the car wash temporarily, it can happen.

FuzzyQball
FuzzyQball Senior Member • Posts: 1,627
Re: To go full frame or not?

What about the Sony RX1?  It seems like a great take along camera, although the price is steep!

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Glenn

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: FF in a period of rapid change.

Tastybread wrote:

So these are the kind of photos that I've been taking lately that I like. I ultimately always want more detail, especially in situations like my cat and her fur. Noise isn't so much an issue I guess when shooting in raw and using lightroom to denoise, but I wish I didn't have to lose detail as trade off.

I use NEX-3. Even with its older 14 MP sensor, I don't feel the need to be overly aggressive on NR (and sharpness). Sometimes I just prefer a light grain with details. Here are some images, similar subjects to yours:

NEX-3, Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, ISO 200, f/5, 1/250s

NEX-3 w/Contax Zeiss 50mm f/1.7 Planar, ISO 800, f/1.7, 1/30s

NEX-3 w/Contax Zeiss 50mm f/1.7 Planar, ISO 1600, f/1.7, 1/20s

NEX-3 w/Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, ISO 320, f/4.5, 1/250s

NEX-3 w/Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, ISO 200, 1/500s, f/5.6

And this...

NEX-3 w/Minolta 200mm f/2.8 HS, ISO 800, f/2.8, 1/640s

NEX-3 w/Contax Zeiss 50mm f/1.7 Planar, ISO 400, f/2, 1/500s

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OP Tastybread Regular Member • Posts: 107
Re: FF in a period of rapid change.

Tastybread wrote:

So these are the kind of photos that I've been taking lately that I like. I ultimately always want more detail, especially in situations like my cat and her fur. Noise isn't so much an issue I guess when shooting in raw and using lightroom to denoise, but I wish I didn't have to lose detail as trade off.

I use NEX-3. Even with its older 14 MP sensor, I don't feel the need to be overly aggressive on NR (and sharpness). Sometimes I just prefer a light grain with details. Here are some images, similar subjects to yours:

NEX-3, Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, ISO 200, f/5, 1/250s

NEX-3 w/Contax Zeiss 50mm f/1.7 Planar, ISO 800, f/1.7, 1/30s

NEX-3 w/Contax Zeiss 50mm f/1.7 Planar, ISO 1600, f/1.7, 1/20s

NEX-3 w/Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, ISO 320, f/4.5, 1/250s

NEX-3 w/Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, ISO 200, 1/500s, f/5.6

And this...

NEX-3 w/Minolta 200mm f/2.8 HS, ISO 800, f/2.8, 1/640s

NEX-3 w/Contax Zeiss 50mm f/1.7 Planar, ISO 400, f/2, 1/500s

Jesus those are incredible looking photos. The glass you carry is pretty nice too. Maybe I need to invest in better lenses. Right now all I have is a sal50f14, sigma 70-300, and the nex6 kit lens.

Jefenator
Jefenator Senior Member • Posts: 2,379
Re: FF in a period of rapid change.

Sometimes I do yearn for that "full frame look". Particularly for certain candid shots where a 35/2 just doesn't isolate the subject as much as I'd like.

But the closer you get, the less full-frame matters IME. Ditto telephoto. At 1:8 (about where I shoot many of my vases for the online store) on APS-C I have shallow focus capacity to spare. I shoot at f/5.6 or f/8 and still get plenty of nice BOKEH and isolation. If I shot wide open that close, most of the time the depth would be WAY too thin. I actually see a lot of NEX-shot images where frankly I wish the photographer had stopped down more.

But back up 15 feet and it's another story. If it were my aim to do a gallery exhibition of medium distance shots with nice, blurred-out foregrounds & backgrounds, I would definitely pursue a FF (or larger) solution.

medium format capture - 80mm "normal" lens on 6x6cm film

Seems like FF has become what medium format used to be: the domain of pros and hardcore enthusiasts. The resolving power of APS-C usually blows FF-size film captures completely out of the water IME.

Interestingly, FF DSLRs have blown up to a size point that is often larger than many medium format film cameras. (I'm still waiting for the FF digital body that is roughly the size of an old lever-advance 35mm SLR...)

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ottonis Contributing Member • Posts: 720
Re: To go full frame or not?
1

Tastybread wrote:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

I recently replaced my 5N with a 6 because I liked the evf and heard that the sensor could handle noise at higher iso's better. Not disappointed in the least. But lately I've been looking at full frame cameras and the level of detail they can absorb by digging through user photos on Flickr, and I am really tempted to pick one up. Specifically the Nikon D600.

My problem is, I'm having a hard time tipping the scale on what I should do, and thought maybe the community here could share some thoughts that could help me make a dicision. Keep the NEX-6, or sell the lot and pick up the D600?

Main reasons I love the NEX-6
Prefer the layout of controls.
Love and utilize the tilting screen a lot.
Love the wireless trigger app
The focus peak feature
Not huge, but like and use the smile shutter
Image quality
Above all, the size. I have no inhibitions taking my camera everywhere I go.

Reasons I'm interested in the D600
I love low light situations but hate noise.
The image quality is overwhelmingly tempting. So much detail.

I do hate the size however.

I know this seems more favorable towards the nex, but I love the look of photos taken with full frame cameras and don't know when sony will release a FF NEX. But I wonder if I'll take fewer photos because the size of the nikon seems so cumbersome.

Sorry if this seems like a pointless discussion, but I've been circling this decision for a while now and was wondering if any other NEX enthusiats had some thoughts on the matter. Any opinion would be hugely appreciated.

I feel ya, man, I feel ya.... I often find myself lurking at camera tech sites, reading specs, sample images and reviews of FF cameras and more often than not, my fingers itch to grab the cc# and order one of these FF beauties.

Here is what has been holding me back from upgrading my 5N:

1. A FF body alone is useless, and  potentially substantial investments in good glass would have to follow if you want to reap the benefits of FF sensor resolution and low light capabilities. Even the D600, when paired with a mediocre and slow kit lens, would lose quite some of its IQ advantage it would normally have over an APS-C camera.

2. I was particularly tempted to get the D600 because of its affordable cost, but I stepped back when I read a huge number of user complaints across the web about gradual oil and dust contamination of the sensor and the need to wet-clean the sensor fairly frequently.

3. Even a FF camera will NOT magically generate superior images by itself. I realized that my photography skills are still far too low in order to be able to make FULL use of the IQ adantages of a FF camera. So I ultimately decided to keep the 5N for a while and improve on my skills instead. Perhaps if I win one of the dpreview photo challenges, some time in the distant future,  perhaps then I might re-consider my stance and feel skilled enough for a FF camera.

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Astrophotographer 10 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,235
Re: To go full frame or not?

A full frame Nex would have a high prce tag. The RX1 shows that. So keep that in mind as well.

Its unlikely to compete pricewise with Nikon D600 or Canon 6D.

Greg.

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npires
npires Senior Member • Posts: 1,600
Re: To go full frame or not?

How about considering a cheap deal on the NEX speedbooster? It's pretty much near full frame and the extra 2 stops you get from your lens will allow you to use faster shutter speeds to compensate from the lack of IS unless you get a canon lens with IS it will probably work with the speed booster. I think this route would be cheaper than proper full frame? Benefit is if you do go full frame in the future you'll be able to share your lenses between the NEX and the proper full frame body

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GodSpeaks
GodSpeaks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,474
Re: To go full frame or not?

Keep the 6 AND get the D600.  They are two COMPLETELY different cameras for completely different uses.

I have an NEX-6 and a D800E.  Use both constantly.

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The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
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Bill1000Evening
Bill1000Evening Regular Member • Posts: 252
Re: To go full frame or not?

GodSpeaks wrote:

Keep the 6 AND get the D600.  They are two COMPLETELY different cameras for completely different uses.

I have an NEX-6 and a D800E.  Use both constantly.

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The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
- Rayna Butler

I agree.  I have a NEX 7 and a D600 and neither are collecting dust.

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Astrophotographer 10 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,235
Re: To go full frame or not?

Same. I have Fuji XE1, Nex 6, Sony RX100 and D800E and use them all.

Greg.

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joe talks photography
joe talks photography Regular Member • Posts: 247
Re: To go full frame or not?
1

Tastybread wrote:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

I recently replaced my 5N with a 6 because I liked the evf and heard that the sensor could handle noise at higher iso's better. Not disappointed in the least. But lately I've been looking at full frame cameras and the level of detail they can absorb by digging through user photos on Flickr, and I am really tempted to pick one up. Specifically the Nikon D600.

My problem is, I'm having a hard time tipping the scale on what I should do, and thought maybe the community here could share some thoughts that could help me make a dicision. Keep the NEX-6, or sell the lot and pick up the D600?

Main reasons I love the NEX-6
Prefer the layout of controls.
Love and utilize the tilting screen a lot.
Love the wireless trigger app
The focus peak feature
Not huge, but like and use the smile shutter
Image quality
Above all, the size. I have no inhibitions taking my camera everywhere I go.

Reasons I'm interested in the D600
I love low light situations but hate noise.
The image quality is overwhelmingly tempting. So much detail.

I do hate the size however.

I know this seems more favorable towards the nex, but I love the look of photos taken with full frame cameras and don't know when sony will release a FF NEX. But I wonder if I'll take fewer photos because the size of the nikon seems so cumbersome.

Sorry if this seems like a pointless discussion, but I've been circling this decision for a while now and was wondering if any other NEX enthusiats had some thoughts on the matter. Any opinion would be hugely appreciated.

As true as it is that the full-frame sensor cameras are very capable (I owned the 5D Mk II), if you don't like the bulk of it you simply won't use as much or be satisfied with your decision. Then comes the investment in a new system, and I know this part well...the cost!

If I were considering this move, I would keep the Nex 6 unless you are totally committed to a move to the DSLR. Also think that once you make the jump, other DSLR full frame cameras will capture your attention, and interest. That's the way it has worked for me.

Now that I use the Nex 7 I cannot really think of a reason to move back to a DSLR, full frame or not. Soon enough there will be a relative of the Nex 7 that is fit with a full frame sensor. In the meantime, I get uber detail with the 7 when coupled with sharp lens. Sure, the shallow depth of field isn't as great as D600 or A99, but that isn't a big concern for me.

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Joe

DRode
DRode Senior Member • Posts: 2,815
Re: To go full frame or not?

Rent one for a few days and get some good glass to go with it. There is no reason to spend $2k on a full frame body and pair it with a mediocre kit lens. So, look at renting something like the 24-70.

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wwwOKCOMEONcom
wwwOKCOMEONcom Contributing Member • Posts: 514
Re: FF in a period of rapid change.

next month ?
insider told u so ?

PaddyC Regular Member • Posts: 300
Re: To go full frame or not?

I have an a850 (with some nice lenses) and a NEX 5N (with a variety of lenses). I have yet to take the a850 with me on a trip or to a social gathering/event. As in never. It's too heavy. Too much to lug around.

The NEX 5N is such a capable camera. The problem is that the jump between APS-C and FF isn't as big as people make it out to be.

FF gives you the following:

1. Shoot wide-angles as intended (ie a 24 mm is a 24 mm – might not mean much if you don't come from a film background or like zooms).

2. Isolate your subject/achieve spatial relationships in the photograph that are different from APS-C.

3. Maybe some low-noise and detail advantage. But that depends a lot on the camera and lens combo. And might not be as big as you think and is all irrelevant if you don't use it and/or don't print big.

If you are a landscape photographer and like to print big then there's no question the d800 is going to do things for you that APS-C isn't. But that's a specific case. If you don't have a specific case (and it doesn't sound like you do) then it doesn't make a lot of sense to get into full frame.

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Lmendy Contributing Member • Posts: 757
Re: To go full frame or not?
1

Take it from someone who has been there.  I fell in lust with the D800 when it came out.  i will give the edge to the D800 in image quality, but the cons were just to much for me.  It is big and heavy.  It attracted dust particles like a magnet.  The massive files were just to large for my computer (with 8 mb of ram).  I sold it at a small loss and bought a refurb D3200 body.  The IQ was not that far off from the D800.  Now, I am thinking that the D3200 is to large and am thinking about the NEX.  Unless you professionally need and require FF, there is no sense in going FF.  Unless you print wall size, there is absolutely no need for FF.

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OP Tastybread Regular Member • Posts: 107
Re: To go full frame or not?
3

That's great advice, as well as the notion that even when I get a ff camera, I will still be tempted by other cameras. That seems very true.

With full confidence, I'm going to keep the 6. I'm just completely in love with the Sony approach to interchangeable lens cameras. I prefer the way the controls are laid out, the somewhat gimmicky and fun scene modes, the tilt screen, and the evf. But god, you just can't beat that size. I like the advice (and I'm sorry I'm not referencing to you directly) of if I already think the size of dslr's are cumbersome, then I probably won't use it. It's very true; I played with a d600 at best buy and hated it, but thought I could soldier through the size for the sake of the image quality, but that seems like a lie.

I will, however, either spend the money I might have spent on the ffdslr, on a zeiss lens. I thought maybe a metabones speedbooster, but that wouldn't do me any good if I eventually did buy a ff nex. Can't wait for that day.

Can I just say how great you guys are? This is my first post anywhere on dpreview and I was a little worried about how the community would take to this question. Love the advice and appreciate the help. Lot of strange, elitist forums out there and you guys have been nothing but welcoming. Thanks a lot.

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