A99 viewfinder - please help

Started Apr 8, 2013 | Discussions
OP Febs Contributing Member • Posts: 512
Re: I will counter that..

lim yau tong wrote:

The EVF suppose to represent what you see in real live. Sony should fix it if that is not the case. More over the EVF is now very different from the LCD. Tell them that you do not have this issue in the beginning.

Hello Lim Yau Tong,

I wished for a different response from the service center but that's what I got. In general I'm happy with the EVF and I also don't think that my camera is defective. Before I bought the camera I handled 4 different A99 and remember the EVF looked the same in all of them. Little to no variation between them. I couldn't try them out in sunlight at the time though, so I didn't notice the issue until after I bought my own copy.

Greetings, Fabian

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dlkeller Veteran Member • Posts: 6,922
Re: That's just the way EVF is...
2

There seem to be a whole lot of people posting who feel it certainly does appear much darker in bright light and giving work arounds they use, which indicates it is an issue--although one many can live with.

BTW--these repeated "slamming mirror" references are really an exageration of what is happening in an SLR, sort of like discribing a SLT mirror as "soaking up light".

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Dave

lim yau tong
lim yau tong Veteran Member • Posts: 3,840
The best way to verify it is to

cross check whether your evf looks the same as your LCD.

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Karl Gnter Wnsch Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Re: That's just the way EVF is...

OntarioJohn wrote:

The object of the EVF viewfinder is to see what the sensor will reproduce.

And it fails in spectacular fashion as the dynamic range of the display used is well below what the final image will contain and the sensor in video mode doesn't even capture as much dynamic range as well!

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regards
Karl Günter Wünsch

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Sonyshine
Sonyshine Veteran Member • Posts: 8,892
Re: That's just the way EVF is...

I wonder if it is mainly spectacle wearers who have the problem?

I even went outside yesterday in some brief bright sunshine with my camera and tried to make the problem happen. I couldn't.

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Archer66 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,989
Re: That's just the way EVF is...
1

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

OntarioJohn wrote:

The object of the EVF viewfinder is to see what the sensor will reproduce.

And it fails in spectacular fashion as the dynamic range of the display used is well below what the final image will contain

Compared to your cr@p Canosaurus OVF it is still much better.

Chris Malcolm Senior Member • Posts: 2,062
Re: That's just the way EVF is...

dlkeller wrote:

There seem to be a whole lot of people posting who feel it certainly does appear much darker in bright light and giving work arounds they use, which indicates it is an issue--although one many can live with.

BTW--these repeated "slamming mirror" references are really an exageration of what is happening in an SLR, sort of like discribing a SLT mirror as "soaking up light".

My two DSLRs both make enough of a clatter to turn heads. Unobtrusive candid shots in quiet public places are impossible. I have a fifteen foot adapted painter's pole I use for getting high viewpoints. When I'm holding it as high as possible near road traffic and firing it with the 10 sec timer I can't hear the shutter going off. But that's no problem with either of my DSLRs because I can easily feel it through fifteen feet of jointed alloy tubing. Does that amount of wallop actually shake the camera enough to cause fine detail smearing at certain ranges of shutter speeds? The answer I discovered by testing was detectably so at 85mm, really annoyingly so at 500mm.  That's with APS-C sensor DSLRs, where the problems are much less than with the larger heavier full frame mechanisms.

Having spent a lot of time investigating & trying to avoid those problems, and a lot of money acquiring camera technology without therm, I feel it quite appropriate to talk about image smear caused by mirror & shutter slam. Of course for many kinds of photography these problems don't exist. But if you don't shoot in the rain that doesn't mean that people who shoot in the rain & complain about waterproofing problems are exaggerating.

SLT mirrors "soak up" about 1/3 to 1/2 stop of light, depending on how you do your calculations and tests. I regard that a completely trivial loss, for my practical purposes negligible, irrelevant. But it might be a very significant loss for someone who often tries to squeeze the ultimate low light performance from her camera & lenses.

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Chris Malcolm

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Piginho Regular Member • Posts: 317
Re: That's just the way EVF is...

Chris Malcolm wrote:

dlkeller wrote:

There seem to be a whole lot of people posting who feel it certainly does appear much darker in bright light and giving work arounds they use, which indicates it is an issue--although one many can live with.

BTW--these repeated "slamming mirror" references are really an exageration of what is happening in an SLR, sort of like discribing a SLT mirror as "soaking up light".

My two DSLRs both make enough of a clatter to turn heads. Unobtrusive candid shots in quiet public places are impossible. I have a fifteen foot adapted painter's pole I use for getting high viewpoints. When I'm holding it as high as possible near road traffic and firing it with the 10 sec timer I can't hear the shutter going off. But that's no problem with either of my DSLRs because I can easily feel it through fifteen feet of jointed alloy tubing. Does that amount of wallop actually shake the camera enough to cause fine detail smearing at certain ranges of shutter speeds? The answer I discovered by testing was detectably so at 85mm, really annoyingly so at 500mm.  That's with APS-C sensor DSLRs, where the problems are much less than with the larger heavier full frame mechanisms.

Having spent a lot of time investigating & trying to avoid those problems, and a lot of money acquiring camera technology without therm, I feel it quite appropriate to talk about image smear caused by mirror & shutter slam. Of course for many kinds of photography these problems don't exist. But if you don't shoot in the rain that doesn't mean that people who shoot in the rain & complain about waterproofing problems are exaggerating.

SLT mirrors "soak up" about 1/3 to 1/2 stop of light, depending on how you do your calculations and tests. I regard that a completely trivial loss, for my practical purposes negligible, irrelevant. But it might be a very significant loss for someone who often tries to squeeze the ultimate low light performance from her camera & lenses.

And just how much of the "image smearing" is down to the camera being mounted on top of a 15 foot pole!

You're luck to get any sharp pics with such a set up, no matter how high the shutter speed.

jmknights
jmknights Veteran Member • Posts: 3,689
Re: A99 viewfinder - please help

BTW as mentioned A77 viewfinder has been a problem in bright light also, even this past weekend switched back to my A900 because it was easy for my 62 yr. old eyes.. However last year used the A77 as soon as the sun got a little higher in the sky. Hope don't have the same problem w/newly ordered A99.

On the racetrack on bright days even ware baseball type cap, and prescription/darkened lenses but early in the yr. prefer to use my favorite camera the A900 w/argueably the best viewfinder of all the cameras I own.... Sorry couldn't be more helpful w/o using the new A99. Will keep forum informed as soon as I get to use at track Apr. 20/21st.  Great question even for those of us that haven't used the A99.

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Jim in VT

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Domenick Creaco Regular Member • Posts: 126
Re: That's just the way EVF is...

OntarioJohn wrote:

We seem obsessed with something that is irrelevant .

The object of the EVF viewfinder is not to see exactly what the eye would see.

The object of the EVF viewfinder is to see what the sensor will reproduce.

Some people do not like a dim viewfinder(in very bright light) while others do not seem to be bothered by it. It's a personal tolerance issue. My style of shooting is to quickly bring the camera up to the eye compose quickly and shoot. Anything that hampers this process like not being able to quickly discern the proper composition is not preferable for me, so I dot think it is irrelevant. for me. Trusting my cameras ability to capture a clean wide dynamic range image with a fairly accurate exposure (using some exposure bracketing for tweaking) has yielded very satisfactory results for me up until now.

I think I am an adaptable person and having invested much in the alpha system, an A99 or evolution of it is probably in my near future. So getting used to this may not be a problem. When I buy the camera I'll make sure to get it from a dealer who will accept returns if I cannot adapt.

By the way for your last statement above, how can a dim contrasty viewfinder show you what the sensor will reproduce. I don't think the EVF is a match in dynamic range or contrast for the sensor but only an approximation.

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Domenick Creaco

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Sonyshine
Sonyshine Veteran Member • Posts: 8,892
Re: That's just the way EVF is...

An  earlier point I made ( and others )   is  that I have never encountered one of these so called dim, contrasty EVF's - where are they?

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OP Febs Contributing Member • Posts: 512
Re: That's just the way EVF is...

Sonyshine wrote:

An  earlier point I made ( and others )   is  that I have never encountered one of these so called dim, contrasty EVF's - where are they?

Hi Sonyshine,

If you read through this thread you will find that there are a quite a number of people who say that to them the EVF is dim in bright light. So these so called dim, contrasty EVF's are right here in this thread. 

It is interesting that other people like you don't have the impression of a dim viewfinder at all! I believe like Domenick that the difference of opinion mainly comes from the different level of tolerance to the brightness of the viewfinder.

By the way if you look at the EVF closely and then compare it to the back LCD, you will find that the EVF is more contrasty than the LCD. So the WYSIWYG whilst being quite good, is not yet perfect.

Cheers, Fabian

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success100
success100 Contributing Member • Posts: 735
Re: A99 viewfinder - please help

sounds like live view to me

Domenick Creaco Regular Member • Posts: 126
Re: That's just the way EVF is...
1

Sonyshine wrote:

An  earlier point I made ( and others )   is  that I have never encountered one of these so called dim, contrasty EVF's - where are they?

Dear Sonyshine,

To answer your response may want to look at these reviews:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/AA65/AA65A3.HTM

“Before turning to all the positive aspects of EVFs, I'll raise one other area where they lag behind optical viewfinders, namely image brightness compared to bright daylight. While I really fell in love with the Sony A65's EVF, it shared one remaining foible with lesser EVFs of the past. Even with the brightness adjustment set to maximum, when I brought the viewfinder to my eye while shooting under bright sunlight, the EVF display was significantly less bright than the surroundings. I often found it taking a moment for my eyes to adjust to the dimmer view, and I was conscious of pressing the camera particularly closely against my face in an attempt to block out as much ambient light as possible.”

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/why_i_hate_evfs.shtml

“I don't really hate electronic viewfinders. That's hyperbole. But I really dislike them a lot of the time. The reason why is that they are at best tiny TV sets, and as such have very low contrast ratios compared to the ability of the naked eye or a good optical or large DSLR viewfinder. In bright situations, where there is also deep shade, it can make visibility into the shadows when shooting highly compromised.”

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/12/27/sonys-alpha-99-mastery-wrapped-in-dilemma/

In full sun, the finder appears very dim compared to any good optical finder. In overcast light, it’s a good match. As the light fails or you move indoors, the EVF shows substantial benefits over optical systems. After dark, it can make accurate composition easy instead of almost impossible.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_a99_field_report.shtml

“As good as it is, the Sony EVF just can't compete in terms of realistic contrast, brightness and overall clarity to a full frame glass prism viewfinder.”

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Domenick Creaco

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jerrith
jerrith Regular Member • Posts: 267
Re: A99 viewfinder - please help
1

Found this on the Sony tips and solutions section for the A99:

When shooting in direct sunlight, the viewfinder image is not clearly seen.

It is due to irregular reflection in the viewfinder, caused by the light reflected from the surface of the eyelid or eye. Also, if you shoot wearing eyeglasses, reflected light may come into the viewfinder from the gap between the eyecup and the eyelid. If this happens, avoid direct sunlight to the eyecup by covering the upper part of the viewfinder with your hand, etc.

Looks to me like you are doing exactly what Sony recommends in this situation and that the cause in effect is the light reflected from your glasses.

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dw2001 Regular Member • Posts: 100
Re: A99 viewfinder - please help

seriously, anyone in this thread doubting the OP ever tried to shoot with an EVF in bright sunlight while wearing glasses? I think not..

problem is that the sunlight will hit your eye because there is a gap between eye cap and the eye due to the glasses and since the sun light is like 50 billion times brighter than the EVF of course the EVF will appear dark since the eye is compensating for the bright sun, not for the relative dark EVF, then you would go blind. it's nothing wrong with his EVF at all and you don't have to be an scientist to figure this out..

of course when you are shading of all incoming light in some way and only see the EVF it will look perfectly fine, but this is kind of hard whlie wearing glasses.

I would say this is the main problem with the EVF, I too wear glasses.

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 6,192
Re: A99 viewfinder - please help

In one of my posts above I say the pupil is dilated when up against the viewfinder but not with glasses. I think you should read really old threads thoroughly before resurrecting them as presumably the OP has sorted out his problem after all this time.

dw2001 wrote:

seriously, anyone in this thread doubting the OP ever tried to shoot with an EVF in bright sunlight while wearing glasses? I think not..

problem is that the sunlight will hit your eye because there is a gap between eye cap and the eye due to the glasses and since the sun light is like 50 billion times brighter than the EVF of course the EVF will appear dark since the eye is compensating for the bright sun, not for the relative dark EVF, then you would go blind. it's nothing wrong with his EVF at all and you don't have to be an scientist to figure this out..

of course when you are shading of all incoming light in some way and only see the EVF it will look perfectly fine, but this is kind of hard whlie wearing glasses.

I would say this is the main problem with the EVF, I too wear glasses.

Alley New Member • Posts: 1
Re: A99 viewfinder - please help

I use my camera for professional work and have read all these ridiculous replies re the EVF on the Sony A99 and blaming the wearing of spectacles  for a dark viewfinder.  I recently bought an A99 and found the viewfinder unworkable in bright sunlight and I don't wear glasses. All shaded areas turn black in the finder in bright sunlight preventing you from locking the AEL onto a mid grey area to balance the severe contrast. I had to take a picture to find out if my selections worked or not. So much guess work I never have on my A900. You could never do a wedding job with it. I sent the A99 back for a refund in the hope Sony come to their senses and create  a true pro camera with OVF in a future model because the photos it produces are excellent and would  equal any camera.

I would like to hear from Sony re their views on the problem.

Allan

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