Hand-holding the M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75-300mm F4.8-6.7 II near 300mm

Started Apr 4, 2013 | Discussions
OP FrankParis Senior Member • Posts: 1,042
Re: Well, I think it can be done.....

Guy Parsons wrote:

The E-PL5 with 45-150mm OIS enabled makes live view at tele rather nice and smooth to frame, the jitter is all gone.

Presumably you turn off IBIS in the E-PL5 when you do this.  I achieve the same thing with all Olympus equipment, the E-M5 and the 75-300mm II, at 300mm, with IBIS enabled and the "Half Way RLS with IS" setting on. But this doesn't help overcome motion blur if your hand shake exceeds the 4 or 5 stop advantage E-M5 IBIS gives you. It just helps you frame your subject the way you want. Your hand-held technique still has to be as steady as a tripod to achieve the same IQ. The vast majority of humans can't achieve this, regardless of age. So tripods will always sell briskly for the vast majority of humans looking for razor sharp images.

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Frank Paris

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Aleo Veuliah
MOD Aleo Veuliah Forum Pro • Posts: 14,638
Re: Hand-holding the M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75-300mm F4.8-6.7 II near 300mm

Nice pictures, pleasant colors. Well taken.


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tedolf
tedolf Forum Pro • Posts: 23,968
Re: I think trying to shoot 600mm FF equivalent FOV.....

Mjankor wrote:

That would probably be me you're talking about. Don't mistake photos I'm posting for general info, for photos I consider good.

Handheld

I know it can be done, but the question is how often?

Are these "best shots" or are all your 600mm FOV hand held shots this sharp?

It is also possible to "cheat" by not using a tripod, but steadinging yourself a gainst a post, putting a jacket on top of a fence rail and resting the camera on that etc.

Tedolph

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tedolf
tedolf Forum Pro • Posts: 23,968
Traitor.....

Guy Parsons wrote:

tedolf wrote:

hand held with any camera is going to be problematic.

I think 300mm FF equivalent FOV is about as much as most people are going to be able to hand hold succesfully on a regular basis.

Tedolph

Well, no 300mm lens but the Pana 45-150mm at 150mm on E-PL5 with the OIS enabled and the 2x digital tele converter enabled allowed me last night across a dim room to consistently get a high proportion of shake free shots at around 1/15 and 1/20 sec - so out in the daylight with much faster shutter speeds should improve the maybe 70% success rate to nearer 90% success rate. (90% success is about reality for all shutter speeds I have found, there's always a random shake intruding even at the fastest shutter speeds on occasion).

So for me that 600mm equivalent effort worked fine and am looking forward to next after Christmas Aussie discount period to get the rather nice Mk2 Oly 75-300mm, and then of course try the 2x digital teleconverter to see if I can manage to hand-hold 1200mm equivalent.

Tedolph, you need to realise that people are different, some can hand-hold successfully, others can't.  Your blanket "problematic" is proved wrong by many people who seem to have no problem with that focal length.

Is "problematic" a blanket statement?

Aside..... Hells bells, some of us have even found a better camera than the E-PL1 (hint, = E-PL5).

Traitor.

Regards..... Guy

Tedolph

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 27,727
Tried 1440mm equivalent just now......

FrankParis wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

The E-PL5 with 45-150mm OIS enabled makes live view at tele rather nice and smooth to frame, the jitter is all gone.

Presumably you turn off IBIS in the E-PL5 when you do this.

Possibly counter-intuitively you need to turn ON the IBIS in the E-PL5 to enable the Lens IS Priority. When it detects an OIS lens then the E-PL5 turns off the IBIS internally (invisibly to the user) and uses the lens OIS instead. If you turn off IBIS then you get no stabilisation at all from body or lens.

I achieve the same thing with all Olympus equipment, the E-M5 and the 75-300mm II, at 300mm, with IBIS enabled and the "Half Way RLS with IS" setting on. But this doesn't help overcome motion blur if your hand shake exceeds the 4 or 5 stop advantage E-M5 IBIS gives you. It just helps you frame your subject the way you want. Your hand-held technique still has to be as steady as a tripod to achieve the same IQ. The vast majority of humans can't achieve this, regardless of age. So tripods will always sell briskly for the vast majority of humans looking for razor sharp images.

The better IBIS of the E-M5 compared to the Pens makes the use of OIS largely irrelevant. Though some say at 300mm the Pana OIS seems to be better than the E-M5 IBIS , true? = dunno.

As for tripods, if anyone is really serious about good quality images and not just a take-a-chance happy-snapper like me, then a heavy tripod is a must. The 2 seconds anti-shock seems to be all that is needed to overcome the usual motion shake when the shutter is pressed on a heavy tripod, maybe longer delay like 4 seconds needed for a light weight tripod.

Just for fun I right now tried that Nikon 180/2.8 and 2x tele converter plus 2x digital teleconverter for 1440mm equivalent. No samples to show as it is a grey day and the target 2.4 km away was half mist shrouded but I surprised myself that though the preview was rather wobbly I did get "successful" results standing hand-held. Will know more when the sun decides to shine and can try a range of shutter speeds and distances. Had IBIS on but could only set it to 1000mm and it seemed to be working just fine at 1/320 sec with my setup.....

Not a thing I'd go walking with but maybe more likely to try and catch birds in the backyard with.

Regards...... Guy

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OP FrankParis Senior Member • Posts: 1,042
Re: Tried 1440mm equivalent just now......

Guy Parsons wrote:

FrankParis wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

The E-PL5 with 45-150mm OIS enabled makes live view at tele rather nice and smooth to frame, the jitter is all gone.

Presumably you turn off IBIS in the E-PL5 when you do this.

Possibly counter-intuitively you need to turn ON the IBIS in the E-PL5 to enable the Lens IS Priority. When it detects an OIS lens then the E-PL5 turns off the IBIS internally (invisibly to the user) and uses the lens OIS instead. If you turn off IBIS then you get no stabilisation at all from body or lens.

I did not know that! I have several Panny lenses. I'll have to try it. I did try -- inadvertently - my 45-200mm with OIS on, on a tripod with Olympus IBIS off. Don't try that! Every time you shift the framing then stop moving the camera on the tripod, the image continues to drift in the viewfinder for a few seconds. OIS got turned on by accident. It happened twice. I thought something was defective the first time it happened, when I finally noticed OIS on. Recognized the symptom for what it was immediately when it happened again.

As for tripods, if anyone is really serious about good quality images and not just a take-a-chance happy-snapper like me, then a heavy tripod is a must. The 2 seconds anti-shock seems to be all that is needed to overcome the usual motion shake when the shutter is pressed on a heavy tripod, maybe longer delay like 4 seconds needed for a light weight tripod.

Now it's my turn to say something "unbelievable." I never use anti-shock (just 2 second delay) and I have the lightest carbon fiber Gitzo tripod made and that's how I get my razor sharp images. I used to have a much heavier Gitzo tripod when I had my Nikon system, but I sold it off (along with he RRS BH-55 ball head attached) when I went MFT. (Now I used the BH-40.)

Just for fun I right now tried that Nikon 180/2.8 and 2x tele converter plus 2x

I had all that with my Nikon gear. It was one of my favorite lenses and I used it quite a bit with my D2x. Wasn't too impress with the 2x extender, however. The 1.4 produced no image degradation and I liked that much better. I believe I paid over $400 for that 1.4x extender.

digital teleconverter for 1440mm equivalent. No samples to show as it is a grey day and the target 2.4 km away was half mist shrouded but I surprised myself that though the preview was rather wobbly I did get "successful" results standing hand-held. Will know more when the sun decides to shine and can try a range of shutter speeds and distances. Had IBIS on but could only set it to 1000mm and it seemed to be working just fine at 1/320 sec with my setup.....

Not a thing I'd go walking with but maybe more likely to try and catch birds in the backyard with.

Well, I'm anxious to see something with that getup. Seems weird now, but when I had the f/2.8 180mm, I thought it was small and light LOL. It seemed super high tech to me at the time. My son bought it from me. He uses it on his 800E.

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Frank Paris

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OP FrankParis Senior Member • Posts: 1,042
Re: Hand-holding the M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75-300mm F4.8-6.7 II near 300mm

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

Nice pictures, pleasant colors. Well taken.

Thank you! Appreciated.

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Frank Paris

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tedolf
tedolf Forum Pro • Posts: 23,968
Don't get carried away Frank......

FrankParis wrote:

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

Nice pictures, pleasant colors. Well taken.

Thank you! Appreciated.

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Frank Paris

he says that to everybody.

Doesn't matter what they post.

Tedolph

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 27,727
Teleconverters....

FrankParis wrote:

I had all that with my Nikon gear. It was one of my favorite lenses and I used it quite a bit with my D2x. Wasn't too impress with the 2x extender, however. The 1.4 produced no image degradation and I liked that much better. I believe I paid over $400 for that 1.4x extender.

Yes I have both the 2x and 1.4x Tamrons, which are the Kenko Pro equivalents. I noticed that the 1.4x does not degrade the image and the 2x does a little.

My very old page testing the converters with film is here and to me shows that the 1.4x is indeed no handicap.

Oh, and I realise my boo-boo with IBIS, I should have set it to the indicated mm and not some stupid thing that I did, maybe it will work better then. Options for me have to be 180 for lens alone, or 180 x 1.4 = 252, or 180 x 2 = 360 as the only things I should use.

Your tripod comments are interesting, when the sun shines again I will try various delays on my heavy Manfrotto tripod and also a lightweight Velbon and see where that leads me.

Regards..... Guy

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Jeff Tokayer Veteran Member • Posts: 6,278
Lucky you...

We still have to contend with snow flurries, in Toronto. Nice shots, BTW. I like my 75-300 Mk I

Spring will eventually spring.

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My nickel, since the penny is being discontinued...
Jeff.

OP FrankParis Senior Member • Posts: 1,042
Re: Don't get carried away Frank......

Yes, but he doesn't always post. I know my images are good, so I feel unashamed to accept his acceptance.

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Frank Paris

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Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 33,464
Re: Don't get carried away Frank......
1

tedolf wrote:

FrankParis wrote:

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

Nice pictures, pleasant colors. Well taken.

Thank you! Appreciated.

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Frank Paris

he says that to everybody.

Doesn't matter what they post.

Tedolph

And so the cycle begins. . .

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...Bob, NYC
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Martin.au
Martin.au Forum Pro • Posts: 11,909
Re: I think trying to shoot 600mm FF equivalent FOV.....

As tedolf pointed out, those are some of my best shots. As I don't really keep track of how I do at 600mm with various shutter speeds I set out to find out.

I shot a detailed subject (a canister of Liquid Nails - high tech eh?) at about 4-5m, and then assessed the text on the canister to see if there was any sign of movement blur.

Results

1/640 - 10/10 (not too surprising there)

1/320 - 10/10

1/160 - 9/10

1/80 - 6/10

1/40 - 8/10

1/20 - 1/10

Interesting results at 1/40. That shutter speed actually feels really comfortable, or natural. Can't shoot too much wildlife effectively at that speed though.

I don't do that well when shooting real subjects, but it's hard to say how much of that is due to subject movement vs my own stability. Birds in particular are fidgety little sods.

Anyway, that's the results for me, obviously YMMV.

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blackgyr Forum Member • Posts: 64
Re: I think trying to shoot 600mm FF equivalent FOV.....

These shots help to convince me to get this lens. Thank you,

Steve

tedolf
tedolf Forum Pro • Posts: 23,968
Very intersting

Mjankor wrote:

As tedolf pointed out, those are some of my best shots. As I don't really keep track of how I do at 600mm with various shutter speeds I set out to find out.

I shot a detailed subject (a canister of Liquid Nails - high tech eh?) at about 4-5m, and then assessed the text on the canister to see if there was any sign of movement blur.

Results

1/640 - 10/10 (not too surprising there)

1/320 - 10/10

1/160 - 9/10

1/80 - 6/10

1/40 - 8/10

1/20 - 1/10

Interesting results at 1/40. That shutter speed actually feels really comfortable, or natural. Can't shoot too much wildlife effectively at that speed though.

I don't do that well when shooting real subjects, but it's hard to say how much of that is due to subject movement vs my own stability. Birds in particular are fidgety little sods.

Anyway, that's the results for me, obviously YMMV.

We will do some tests at the Tedolph World HQ.

Tedolph

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illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: Very intersting

tedolf wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

As tedolf pointed out, those are some of my best shots. As I don't really keep track of how I do at 600mm with various shutter speeds I set out to find out.

I shot a detailed subject (a canister of Liquid Nails - high tech eh?) at about 4-5m, and then assessed the text on the canister to see if there was any sign of movement blur.

Results

1/640 - 10/10 (not too surprising there)

1/320 - 10/10

1/160 - 9/10

1/80 - 6/10

1/40 - 8/10

1/20 - 1/10

Interesting results at 1/40. That shutter speed actually feels really comfortable, or natural. Can't shoot too much wildlife effectively at that speed though.

I don't do that well when shooting real subjects, but it's hard to say how much of that is due to subject movement vs my own stability. Birds in particular are fidgety little sods.

Anyway, that's the results for me, obviously YMMV.

We will do some tests at the Tedolph World HQ.

Tedolph

do you ave a mini me?

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Jouko Senior Member • Posts: 1,437
Just got the lens...

and the first test set is in front of me loaded into Capture one.

Your set of flowers with 1/80 - 1/30 shutter speeds and about 50% sharpness ratio handheld at 300mm (600mm eqv) isĀ amazing. What drugs are you using? I want the same setup!

My first impressions are, that the lens is amazingly light, and with EP3 handling and focus are better than I thought. I usually use with these kind of lenses some extra support anyway - at least a monopod or a table tipod as a shoulder support (Slik MiniPro). Helps a lot!

Ps. I have found, that on vacations and travelling light some liquid support helps too - like some vine or a couple of beers. I don't recommend this to everybody, and too much is always too much - in this case the third beer. And not to be used all the time, the effect will go and results will get worse. But on shorter focal lengths (25mm etc) down to 1/4 is quite manageable.

Cheers!

Jouko

'The best camera in the world is the one you have with you when you need it'
http://lehtokukka.smugmug.com/
http://jouko-lehto.artistwebsites.com/

Martin.au
Martin.au Forum Pro • Posts: 11,909
Re: Just got the lens...

Jouko wrote:

and the first test set is in front of me loaded into Capture one.

Your set of flowers with 1/80 - 1/30 shutter speeds and about 50% sharpness ratio handheld at 300mm (600mm eqv) isĀ amazing. What drugs are you using? I want the same setup!

My first impressions are, that the lens is amazingly light, and with EP3 handling and focus are better than I thought. I usually use with these kind of lenses some extra support anyway - at least a monopod or a table tipod as a shoulder support (Slik MiniPro). Helps a lot!

Ps. I have found, that on vacations and travelling light some liquid support helps too - like some vine or a couple of beers. I don't recommend this to everybody, and too much is always too much - in this case the third beer. And not to be used all the time, the effect will go and results will get worse. But on shorter focal lengths (25mm etc) down to 1/4 is quite manageable.

Cheers!

Jouko

'The best camera in the world is the one you have with you when you need it'
http://lehtokukka.smugmug.com/
http://jouko-lehto.artistwebsites.com/

It does take a bit to get used to this lens I think. Partly because its light and because 300mm is a damn long lens. It took me a few days heavy usage to adapt and get comfortable with it.

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