HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...

Started Apr 2, 2013 | Discussions
Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...
3

This is part 12 ... http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2013/04/hs50exr-and-f900exr-review-part-12-bad.html

It revisits that awful result I had in bad light. This result is much different, with the HS50 looking fantastic in warm, low light. This is truncated, with only 100, 1600 and 3200 points.

I also include an LvsM comparison, where M crushes L. In bad light that was never in doubt.

And I include a film mode ladder with a slightly surprising result.


I took a short walk this afternoon in a snow squall and caught this image of a Robin. Since it was very overcast, the HS50 chose 400 ISO to allow me to shoot at 1000mm ... and the Robin was hopping along constantly on a worm hunt. (As they say, once you gone worm ...)

So even though the light sucked and the shutter speed sucked and the ISO sucked and the bird would not sit still, I quite like this image ...

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alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...

wow! nice results- especially for astia and velvia! I didnt expect that! Maybe Fuji got some feedback for these modes and L size and decided to change some things?  Kim, I wonder how much of a DR penalty there is though for shooting in astia or velvia?

btw when you talk about equalization of sharpness for M size images do you mean in post process?  I assume you're talking about using USM in PS.

also I really dont like to nitpick but at the end of the blog entry I think you typoed iso 1600- it says iso 1700 there- its been a long night I know lol.

edit: found another one- you said you are better off shooting Velvia M size than Provia L size.... did you mean Provia M size?

so is the new standard Velvia > Astia > Provia for high ISO imaging, Kim?

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KJaay Veteran Member • Posts: 6,815
Re: HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...

Looks like Fuji has a winner! Enjoying your reviews!

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KJ

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Axel Vercauteren Regular Member • Posts: 118
Congrats!

And this is just what testing is all about!
The first ISO ladder was a good hypothesis as there was room to refute it.
Very nicely done!

MitchyK7 Regular Member • Posts: 131
Re: Congrats!

From the difference in IQ, plus my own issues under some FL light, it would seem this camera has an issue under some FL lights (Specifically FL3 on the WB list). Hopefully a fixable firmware bug. As it's causing my camera to underexpose, or warping colours completely. But only under those FL3 lights.

Is this something you'd concur with kim? I'm no expert so it's even more frustrating, but your input might be helpful!

jcmarfilph Veteran Member • Posts: 7,592
Re: HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...

Kim Letkeman wrote:

This is part 12 ... http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2013/04/hs50exr-and-f900exr-review-part-12-bad.html

It revisits that awful result I had in bad light. This result is much different, with the HS50 looking fantastic in warm, low light. This is truncated, with only 100, 1600 and 3200 points.

I also include an LvsM comparison, where M crushes L. In bad light that was never in doubt.

And I include a film mode ladder with a slightly surprising result.


I took a short walk this afternoon in a snow squall and caught this image of a Robin. Since it was very overcast, the HS50 chose 400 ISO to allow me to shoot at 1000mm ... and the Robin was hopping along constantly on a worm hunt. (As they say, once you gone worm ...)

So even though the light sucked and the shutter speed sucked and the ISO sucked and the bird would not sit still, I quite like this image ...

You could have used wide open aperture so it will go to f/5.6 only and will keep the iSO lower. Not a bad shot though.

-=[ Joms ]=-

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isb_deep Regular Member • Posts: 192
Re: HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...

Very useful reviews, as always Kim, especially for the '50. Appreciate you work. Thanks!

- Deep

Shunda77
Shunda77 Senior Member • Posts: 2,132
How the heck are they doing this?

I thought these EXR sensors sort of had a detail limit due to the way they work, I know my HS20 did.

But isn't this sensor effectively still the same one as the HS20? How have Fuji managed to extract more detail? or am I imagining things here?

It seems like the HS50 could be almost worth considering, and quite frankly, I am surprised due to the very ambitious lens range.

Very interesting.

LTZ470
LTZ470 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,926
Re: HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...

jcmarfilph wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

This is part 12 ... http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2013/04/hs50exr-and-f900exr-review-part-12-bad.html

It revisits that awful result I had in bad light. This result is much different, with the HS50 looking fantastic in warm, low light. This is truncated, with only 100, 1600 and 3200 points.

I also include an LvsM comparison, where M crushes L. In bad light that was never in doubt.

And I include a film mode ladder with a slightly surprising result.


I took a short walk this afternoon in a snow squall and caught this image of a Robin. Since it was very overcast, the HS50 chose 400 ISO to allow me to shoot at 1000mm ... and the Robin was hopping along constantly on a worm hunt. (As they say, once you gone worm ...)

So even though the light sucked and the shutter speed sucked and the ISO sucked and the bird would not sit still, I quite like this image ...

You could have used wide open aperture so it will go to f/5.6 only and will keep the iSO lower. Not a bad shot though.

-=[ Joms ]=-

I was surprised as well at the f/8, I would have opted for more shutter speed...

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Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
Re: HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...

alexisgreat wrote:

wow! nice results- especially for astia and velvia! I didnt expect that! Maybe Fuji got some feedback for these modes and L size and decided to change some things?  Kim, I wonder how much of a DR penalty there is though for shooting in astia or velvia?

Pretty big ... the tone curves will penalize you mightily in contrasty light. This test was not contrasty.

btw when you talk about equalization of sharpness for M size images do you mean in post process?  I assume you're talking about using USM in PS.

Yes, in CS5 with a very small amount of Smart Sharpening (abbreviated on the heading of the crops) ...

also I really dont like to nitpick but at the end of the blog entry I think you typoed iso 1600- it says iso 1700 there- its been a long night I know lol.

No problem ... I'll try to remember to fix it later.

edit: found another one- you said you are better off shooting Velvia M size than Provia L size.... did you mean Provia M size?

No, I meant L size. Basically, L size does more damage at higher ISO than Velvia.

so is the new standard Velvia > Astia > Provia for high ISO imaging, Kim?

No, I would still use Provia and then manage saturation in post processing. But others might make a different choice.

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Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
Re: Congrats!

MitchyK7 wrote:

From the difference in IQ, plus my own issues under some FL light, it would seem this camera has an issue under some FL lights (Specifically FL3 on the WB list). Hopefully a fixable firmware bug. As it's causing my camera to underexpose, or warping colours completely. But only under those FL3 lights.

Is this something you'd concur with kim? I'm no expert so it's even more frustrating, but your input might be helpful!

So the #3 setting is for traditional "cool white" fluorescent bulbs. I don't really have any of those, I just have daylight CF and whatever the default CF temp is. I suppose I could experiment a wee bit and do some bracketing using the three WB settings with the various bulbs. That might be useful. I could even include an old school incandescent in the mix lol ...

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Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
Re: HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...

LTZ470 wrote:

I was surprised as well at the f/8, I would have opted for more shutter speed...

It was freezing

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Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
Re: How the heck are they doing this?

Shunda77 wrote:

I thought these EXR sensors sort of had a detail limit due to the way they work, I know my HS20 did.

But isn't this sensor effectively still the same one as the HS20? How have Fuji managed to extract more detail? or am I imagining things here?

My 770 ladder to match the others showed that it has no problem with details either. That is the previous BSI sensor generation. These 1/2" sensors have always been good under the right light and with the right exposures ...

It seems like the HS50 could be almost worth considering, and quite frankly, I am surprised due to the very ambitious lens range.

That's the real delight of this particular sample ... pretty decent sharpness at the long end.

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Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
Re: HS50EXR and F900EXR reviews, continued ...

isb_deep wrote:

Very useful reviews, as always Kim, especially for the '50. Appreciate you work. Thanks!

Thanks.

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alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Congrats!

yeah haha some of us still have incandescent bulbs lying about lol

oh, and has the weather improved for that 30 sec long exposure starry field test, Kim?

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alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: How the heck are they doing this?

I think this lens is a lot better than in the previous HS series lenses, especially towards the corners.  There was a noticeable dropoff in image quality from previous HS series cameras once you got away from the center of the image.

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CAcreeks
CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,678
Back to part 2 - F770 yellow cast?

Any theories on why the F770 images are a lot more yellow than the F900 and HS50 images?

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2013/03/hs50exr-and-f900exr-review-part-2.html

Is this just how F770 white balance operates?

Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
Re: Congrats!

alexisgreat wrote:

yeah haha some of us still have incandescent bulbs lying about lol

oh, and has the weather improved for that 30 sec long exposure starry field test, Kim?

Still cloudy ...

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Wellington100 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,743
Test implications for the F900

Kim Letkeman wrote:

This is part 12 ... http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2013/04/hs50exr-and-f900exr-review-part-12-bad.html

It revisits that awful result I had in bad light. This result is much different, with the HS50 looking fantastic in warm, low light. This is truncated, with only 100, 1600 and 3200 points.

I also include an LvsM comparison, where M crushes L. In bad light that was never in doubt.

And I include a film mode ladder with a slightly surprising result.


I took a short walk this afternoon in a snow squall and caught this image of a Robin. Since it was very overcast, the HS50 chose 400 ISO to allow me to shoot at 1000mm ... and the Robin was hopping along constantly on a worm hunt. (As they say, once you gone worm ...)

So even though the light sucked and the shutter speed sucked and the ISO sucked and the bird would not sit still, I quite like this image ...

Hi Kim, based on all of your tests of the HS50, the outcome for the F900 looks very good. The only question is whether the lens is sharp or suffers from de-centering issues like so many cameras did from the F500 onwards.

If the F900 lens is good, then this camera looks like it will be a winner. Am I right in thinking that WiFi and or GPS are a thing of the past now in the F series and does it matter?

Assuming the lens is good, I feel that the 4 degree angle of view of the F900 at full zoom is not all that different from the 2 degree angle of view of the HS50 for composing to justify the HS50 over the F900. I easily live without the convenience of an EVF for the sake of pocketability.

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Kim Letkeman
OP Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
Re: Test implications for the F900

Wellington100 wrote:

Hi Kim, based on all of your tests of the HS50, the outcome for the F900 looks very good. The only question is whether the lens is sharp or suffers from de-centering issues like so many cameras did from the F500 onwards.

Yeah, I have not done much with the cam at wide angle yet ... been waiting for the weekend to get it out into the woods with the 50. Should be fun if the weather breaks again.

If the F900 lens is good, then this camera looks like it will be a winner. Am I right in thinking that WiFi and or GPS are a thing of the past now in the F series and does it matter?

WiFi is able to transfer to your phone directly (the camera becomes a hot spot) and it is able to take the GPS coordinates from your phone, so they have both covered now. It;s a bit clunky, but I plan to do a video review showing how that works.

Assuming the lens is good, I feel that the 4 degree angle of view of the F900 at full zoom is not all that different from the 2 degree angle of view of the HS50 for composing to justify the HS50 over the F900. I easily live without the convenience of an EVF for the sake of pocketability.

Well, double the reach is still pretty slick

But I agree ...

The EVF is useful because of the reach, but it is not all that nice once you've used a mirrorless from Panasonic for example.

Pocketability is really useful, and is probably worth the reach sacrifice.

The F900EXR will probably be better at telephoto macro ... needs some testing. Super macro is a joke because of the issue with letting light in. But attaching an achromat again makes the HS interesting ... I wish I could keep it through spring into Peony season

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