HX300 vs HS50 vs FZ200 w/ TC 1200mm vs 1000mm vs 1020mm?

Started Apr 1, 2013 | Discussions
PAUL TILL
PAUL TILL Veteran Member • Posts: 9,286
Re: HX300 vs HS50 vs FZ200 w/ TC 1200mm vs 1000mm vs 1020mm?

AdamT wrote:

The 14B was OK on a 4MP camera but anything higher and it was crap.

it was fabulous on the 10Mp FZ50 . I`ll try one on the XS1 if I land one , if the droopy lens will take the weight

Already tried it, even the TC-E17ED didn't like the X-S1.

Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
that's not a current observation ...

AdamT wrote:

The HS50 isn`t as good (even resized to 12Mp) , it`s taken on that "Upsized 6Mp" look the 1/2" EXR sensors suffer from (the mushy detail and jaggies)  but it`s a lot better than the Sony

His image of the box and bushes is terrific. I see none of the "upsized 6mp" look ...

Compare these excellent shots with the disaster in the "color bleed" thread and you will see what I mean.

is there an ideal compromise here ? - mounting and dismounting a TC on the FZ is a pain - the HX300 is awful at the long end - the sensor in the HS50 isn`t very good (as Dave and Kim have found) but it`s the most practical solution of these three

I have always felt that the 1/2" sensor was excellent. I was very surprised when I saw the mush in my low light ISO ladder, but that was an anomaly, probably caused by a combination of very low light and a firmware bug. I will be retesting that ...

Meanwhile, my recent test (see part 11) shows magnificent M sized detail and acuity.

The HS50, in my opinion, is a remarkable camera when you factor in reach and sensor size. Fuji have a winner here in my opinion. Far stronger than the HS25 I tested last year, and I liked that cam too.

I really hope Adobe come through with RAW support before I have to send it back. Of course, I plan on making sure I save a bunch of RAW images for that moment ...

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LTZ470
OP LTZ470 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,926
Re: My Obervations

PAUL TILL wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

I carry two FZ's one with TC-E17ED and one with Canon 500D attached…for everything in between I would just take EM5 12-35 and 35-100…Landscapes still working with Nex-7 10-18 vs Nikon Coolpix A…Indoors and lowlight RX1….discreet formal dinners RX100...

How am I doing?

That's just plain crazy, you do know why people buy a bridge camera, yes? Do you lug it all around in a trolley too?

Lol, no I have a Thinktank Holster I usually throw on, but one camera is always on the Tripod as well...

AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 58,597
Re: HX300 vs HS50 vs FZ200 w/ TC 1200mm vs 1000mm vs 1020mm?

Already tried it, even the TC-E17ED didn't like the X-S1.

Hmmm, did you find anything which worked ? . BTW how can you tell if you got a good lens, are the duds very soft at 600mm , did the dud lens versions have the Orb issue too (so can tell that way ? ) what about serial numbers ?

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PAUL TILL
PAUL TILL Veteran Member • Posts: 9,286
Re: HX300 vs HS50 vs FZ200 w/ TC 1200mm vs 1000mm vs 1020mm?

My original lens was soft but the one that came with the new sensor is fine.

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jcmarfilph Veteran Member • Posts: 7,592
There is difference in light and focus point?

I took a second look at this comparison and it occurred to me that there is a huge difference in light (because of time between two setup) and the angles and the focus point?

I cropped two sections where both have similar light and in focus. FZ200 left - HS50 right.

One thing to note here is that, HS50 has huge advantage in reach so the result from FZ200 is only possible if you have a Nikon TC17ED which is quite expensive.

-=[ Joms ]=-

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LTZ470
OP LTZ470 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,926
Re: There is difference in light and focus point?

jcmarfilph wrote:

I took a second look at this comparison and it occurred to me that there is a huge difference in light (because of time between two setup) and the angles and the focus point?

I cropped two sections where both have similar light and in focus. FZ200 left - HS50 right.

One thing to note here is that, HS50 has huge advantage in reach so the result from FZ200 is only possible if you have a Nikon TC17ED which is quite expensive.

-=[ Joms ]=-

Agreed Joms, I really like the HS50 much better than any other Superzoom available as far as UI and build...these were shot at unreal distances to be honest with high contrast subjects...25-30m...that sounds good, but realistically we know as typical shooters your not going to get many details from birds or wildlife at this distance...UNLESS it is large wildlife...even a DSLR at this distance will struggle to pull details of a small subject such as a bird at these distances...

To really compare one needs to shoot at 25-35ft at a distance these cams can realistically resolve bird feathers, etc...

The HS50 is a VERY nice Superzoom, and better made/implemented than any of the others I have handled...just can't adjust the jpegs sharp enough for my liking...

It comes down to Shutter Speed for me and I can get it with the FZ200, so thats why I am sticking with it...

alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: nice test

You should add the Canon SX50 and the Nikon P520 to your list- would love to see a comparison between those two and the Fuji HS50!

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alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: that's not a current observation ...

wow Kim so you think the high ISO response was better than your HS25 camera from last year? Or did you mean the focusing speed and zoom reach?

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Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,428
Re: that's not a current observation ...

alexisgreat wrote:

wow Kim so you think the high ISO response was better than your HS25 camera from last year? Or did you mean the focusing speed and zoom reach?

I can't think of a single thing that was better on the HS25.

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alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: that's not a current observation ...

Looks like Fuji sensor technology has progressed a great deal then! I assume the same applies to the F series going from the 550 thru the 770 to the 900- have they seen a similar gain in image quality?

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Nando Kenobi New Member • Posts: 21
Re: nice test

I agree with ya

LTZ470
OP LTZ470 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,926
Re: nice test

alexisgreat wrote:

You should add the Canon SX50 and the Nikon P520 to your list- would love to see a comparison between those two and the Fuji HS50!

Had already tested SX50 vs FZ200 with TC attached…SX50 is a nice cam, but f6.5 is dead slow…blurred shots from subject movement is the norm...

SX50 vs FZ200 TC - 1200mm vs 1020mm

isb_deep Regular Member • Posts: 190
Re: My Obervations

LTZ470 wrote:

I carry two FZ's one with TC-E17ED and one with Canon 500D attached…for everything in between I would just take EM5 12-35 and 35-100…Landscapes still working with Nex-7 10-18 vs Nikon Coolpix A…Indoors and lowlight RX1….discreet formal dinners RX100...

How am I doing?

I think you are doing very, very well Cole, going by all the gear you have to play around with! You must be hitting gold while drilling for oil

Thanks for the comparisons, very nicely done and very relevant consider all the recent talk on the which one is better. I am trying to justify keeping the HS50, still have a few more days to make a final call.

- Deep

kkardster
kkardster Veteran Member • Posts: 8,937
Re: There is difference in light and focus point?

jcmarfilph wrote:

I cropped two sections where both have similar light and in focus. FZ200 left - HS50 right.

I disagree that you've selected areas in focus for both cameras.  Cole already noted that the large sticker on the larger electrical box was the focal point - not the post to the left nor plants to the right.  Even though the EXIF data is missing the aperture, the shutter speed difference indicates that the apertures are indeed different - as is the DOF.

FZ200 on left - HS50 on right:

FZ200 (l) vs. HS50 (r) 100% crop of focal point

It looks more to me that the focal point is different and therefore there's no directly-comparable section in this example.

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LTZ470
OP LTZ470 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,926
Re: There is difference in light and focus point?

kkardster wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

I cropped two sections where both have similar light and in focus. FZ200 left - HS50 right.

I disagree that you've selected areas in focus for both cameras.  Cole already noted that the large sticker on the larger electrical box was the focal point - not the post to the left nor plants to the right.  Even though the EXIF data is missing the aperture, the shutter speed difference indicates that the apertures are indeed different - as is the DOF.

FZ200 on left - HS50 on right:

FZ200 (l) vs. HS50 (r) 100% crop of focal point

It looks more to me that the focal point is different and therefore there's no directly-comparable section in this example.

Originals are here with EXIF...the Spot Focus was used on both cams top right hand corner of largest sticker...timer and tripod...best shots selected from a group after tweaking HS50 several times to get best jpeg output...FZ200 was set at -2 Sharp...-2 Saturation...-1 NR...HS 50 was set like Joms instructions except I +2 Sharp and -2 NR to get a sharp jpeg...Spot Metering...

FZ200 set at f/4 and HS50 at f/5.6...

LTZ470
OP LTZ470 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,926
Re: I mean Originals are here!...duh...forgot the link...

http://acwilli.smugmug.com/Other/FZ200-TC-HS50-HX300/28703512_m5Sxmp#!i=2435708276&k=NF33rnK

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kkardster
kkardster Veteran Member • Posts: 8,937
Re: There is difference in light and focus point?

LTZ470 wrote:

Originals are here with EXIF...the Spot Focus was used on both cams top right hand corner of largest sticker...timer and tripod...best shots selected from a group after tweaking HS50 several times to get best jpeg output...FZ200 was set at -2 Sharp...-2 Saturation...-1 NR...HS 50 was set like Joms instructions except I +2 Sharp and -2 NR to get a sharp jpeg...Spot Metering...

FZ200 set at f/4 and HS50 at f/5.6...

So it appears that the FZ200 does a better job focusing where intended - pretty important to me. 

That said, my point was that it is basically useless [and a bit deceiving] to "cherry-pick" small crops to show favor to one or the other unless you're comparing them at the focal point.  Joms has chosen three such comparison points that favor the HS50 and claimed "both have similar light and in focus" yet as we can clearly see they are not both in focus - if they were then the FZ200 would be as sharp as we see on the larger label.  I'd have a concern with the HS50 focus - at least for this particular camera sample.

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jcmarfilph Veteran Member • Posts: 7,592
Re: There is difference in light and focus point?

kkardster wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

Originals are here with EXIF...the Spot Focus was used on both cams top right hand corner of largest sticker...timer and tripod...best shots selected from a group after tweaking HS50 several times to get best jpeg output...FZ200 was set at -2 Sharp...-2 Saturation...-1 NR...HS 50 was set like Joms instructions except I +2 Sharp and -2 NR to get a sharp jpeg...Spot Metering...

FZ200 set at f/4 and HS50 at f/5.6...

So it appears that the FZ200 does a better job focusing where intended - pretty important to me. 

That said, my point was that it is basically useless [and a bit deceiving] to "cherry-pick" small crops to show favor to one or the other unless you're comparing them at the focal point.  Joms has chosen three such comparison points that favor the HS50 and claimed "both have similar light and in focus" yet as we can clearly see they are not both in focus - if they were then the FZ200 would be as sharp as we see on the larger label.  I'd have a concern with the HS50 focus.

I take it that if Cole would redo the test and make sure that the subject is clear in focus, they will have similar IQ. From the crops I have posted, HS50 yielded better result (opposite of the other crops).

-=[ Joms ]=-

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kkardster
kkardster Veteran Member • Posts: 8,937
Re: There is difference in light and focus point?

jcmarfilph wrote:

I take it that if Cole would redo the test and make sure that the subject is clear in focus, they will have similar IQ.

I agree they will likely be very similar - we're all trying to squeeze blood from a turnip with these small sensors.

From the crops I have posted, HS50 yielded better result (opposite of the other crops).

Just because you can find select areas where the FZ200 was not focused you can't claim superior resolve because you're comparing an accidental/erroneous HS50 focal plane to the actual/desired focal plane.  My point is that you can't validly make a "better result" claim when the HS50 didn't focus where intended.  That in itself should signify a failure for the HS50.  [I admit that it could be due to a bad camera sample.]

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