D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400

Started Apr 1, 2013 | Discussions
jwaif Regular Member • Posts: 472
Re: There must be something wrong

Rudy & Lock,

Capture NX2 will let you turn off all NR on the nef images.  ViewNX2 does not have this option.  The NEF Rudy provided of the ISO 3200 sample a few days ago (thank you!) has default NR values of intensity 22, strength 5.

John

OP RudyPohl Veteran Member • Posts: 5,538
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400
1

Open invitation.....

So how about in order to help us Nikon newbies (and others) evaluate if this camera is any good for anything other than shooting birds and squirrels with $3000+ lenses, some other folks start posting a few more face shots under various real-life lighting conditions?

Thanks,

Rudy

mistermejia Veteran Member • Posts: 3,340
Not for people shooting.
1

RudyPohl wrote:

Open invitation.....

So how about in order to help us Nikon newbies (and others) evaluate if this camera is any good for anything other than shooting birds and squirrels with $3000+ lenses, some other folks start posting a few more face shots under various real-life lighting conditions?

Thanks,

Rudy

I already tried requesting that.  No go.  We are not in the season for people yet, and clearly this exciting camera was designed more for birds.

I am actually VERY surprised Nikon did not put a Bird Call Imitator in this camera, at least one that goes Quack! Quack! Quack!  Nikon should have called this camera the Bird 7100

 mistermejia's gear list:mistermejia's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Tamron SP AF 70-200mm F/2.8 Di LD (IF) MACRO Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R +6 more
OP RudyPohl Veteran Member • Posts: 5,538
Re: Not for people shooting.

mistermejia wrote:

RudyPohl wrote:

Open invitation.....

So how about in order to help us Nikon newbies (and others) evaluate if this camera is any good for anything other than shooting birds and squirrels with $3000+ lenses, some other folks start posting a few more face shots under various real-life lighting conditions?

Thanks,

Rudy

I already tried requesting that.  No go.  We are not in the season for people yet, and clearly this exciting camera was designed more for birds.

I am actually VERY surprised Nikon did not put a Bird Call Imitator in this camera, at least one that goes Quack! Quack! Quack!  Nikon should have called this camera the Bird 7100

Yep Mejia, you've got that right.., "Quack! Quack! Quack!" for sure!!!

Rudy

FoolyCooly Veteran Member • Posts: 3,484
Re: Not for people shooting.

mistermejia wrote:

RudyPohl wrote:

Open invitation.....

So how about in order to help us Nikon newbies (and others) evaluate if this camera is any good for anything other than shooting birds and squirrels with $3000+ lenses, some other folks start posting a few more face shots under various real-life lighting conditions?

Thanks,

Rudy

I already tried requesting that.  No go.  We are not in the season for people yet, and clearly this exciting camera was designed more for birds.

I am actually VERY surprised Nikon did not put a Bird Call Imitator in this camera, at least one that goes Quack! Quack! Quack!  Nikon should have called this camera the Bird 7100

LOL, I hope they add cat call in the first firmware update.

Brev00
Brev00 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,459
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400

Since I do not own one, I will suggest that you try another set but, this time, in slightly more forgiving light.  In other words, give your lens enough light to operate but use your camera settings to regulate the light.  Then, create a decent but difficult high iso exposure.   Shoot late in the day so you can watch the light dip, shoot outdoors to give yourself some room, and zoom out to a reasonable portrait fl like 135. That will also add some speed to your lens.  Borrow the blond from the store and you are set!  You want to be close enough with enough light to grab focus clean and precise.

Just because the light levels were beyond the limit of your gear in the first set does not mean that the D7100 cannot be an all around camera with consumer type lenses.  I would love to give it a go and compare the results immediately with my D90 and the rest of my kit.  My suspicion, from what I have seen, is that the results would be 1-2 stops better at the higher iso's (shooting more comfortably between 800-1600 instead of considering 400-800 the upper range) with finer grain in the lower registers.  Noise would not completely disappear.  I think you have to weigh the iso benefit with the other features of the camera.  Judging by noise alone, why not just get a D7000?  I think the 1.3 crop mode, the lack of an AA filter, and the revamped af system must be thrown into the stew (no frogs) of your judgment.

What other lenses are you considering at this point to get the most out of your new camera?

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www.flickr.com/photos/brev00

 Brev00's gear list:Brev00's gear list
Nikon D90 Nikon D610 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Tamron AF 28-300mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) Macro Tamron SP AF 180mm F/3.5 Di LD (IF) Macro +5 more
Novens2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400

Hi Rudy know some of the folks you shot, good shop and nice folks. The d7100 is a little of a letdown for high ISO and really not as sharp as I expected for real life shooting but the focus seems pretty good the color and tonality seems noticeably better at lower ISO's and color retention at higher ISO's seems pretty good.

Your shots and thanks for sharing them are helpful but not the final word. Custom white balance and a little less noise reduction might give a better final output and though I had hoped for better results from shooting raw it seems your results do show a weakness in the d7100 for portraiture in existing light another poster had some portraits shot in generally good light and exposure but loss of detail showing up above 500 ISO.

I do think to some degree it's better to compare the d7100 at 50% to the d300 (at 100%) or at 70% to the d7000 (at 100%) to get a more realistic view on it's abilities. I reluctantly picked up the d7100 as a last straw attempt to stay with nikon dx, if the d7100 doesn't work for me fuji or full frame might be on the horizon.

Bailey151 Senior Member • Posts: 1,144
Re: Not for people shooting.

mistermejia wrote:

I already tried requesting that.  No go.  We are not in the season for people yet, and clearly this exciting camera was designed more for birds.

I am actually VERY surprised Nikon did not put a Bird Call Imitator in this camera, at least one that goes Quack! Quack! Quack!  Nikon should have called this camera the Bird 7100

LMAO - guess you missed the thread with the pics done by a guy in Romania (IIRC)?

http://intufisuri.blogspot.ro/2013/03/review-nikon-d7100-inca-un-clasic-fara.html

Yep....horrible, terrible across the board, only good for the occasional house sparrow shot.

Yeah, a bit soft...........but nice enough depending on the use. That 70-300 ain't the easiest to shoot like this, not exactly it's forte.

Novens2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
some lovely pics

The fellow has some lovely pics but in reality any present day dx camera by any almost any maker with good glass can take awsome pictures in a studio or in good lighting the real challenge is in existing light situations where the lighting is less then optimal and higher ISO is needed this is where the d7100's ability is debatable.

scokill
scokill Veteran Member • Posts: 5,488
Re: some lovely pics

It's slightly debatable compared to d7000 and higher ISO, and the only other debate would be compared to FX.

Shooting people indoors and with low light should yield good smaller sized prints at high ISO.  I think time and energy would be better served elsewhere, like mastering flash technique, PP tools and skills,  or moving on to FX if those type of shots are the gold standard.

 scokill's gear list:scokill's gear list
Nikon D4 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S 70-200mm F2.8E FL ED VR
OP RudyPohl Veteran Member • Posts: 5,538
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400

Brev00 wrote:

Since I do not own one, I will suggest that you try another set but, this time, in slightly more forgiving light.  In other words, give your lens enough light to operate but use your camera settings to regulate the light.  Then, create a decent but difficult high iso exposure.   Shoot late in the day so you can watch the light dip, shoot outdoors to give yourself some room, and zoom out to a reasonable portrait fl like 135. That will also add some speed to your lens.  Borrow the blond from the store and you are set!  You want to be close enough with enough light to grab focus clean and precise.

Just because the light levels were beyond the limit of your gear in the first set does not mean that the D7100 cannot be an all around camera with consumer type lenses.  I would love to give it a go and compare the results immediately with my D90 and the rest of my kit.  My suspicion, from what I have seen, is that the results would be 1-2 stops better at the higher iso's (shooting more comfortably between 800-1600 instead of considering 400-800 the upper range) with finer grain in the lower registers.  Noise would not completely disappear.  I think you have to weigh the iso benefit with the other features of the camera.  Judging by noise alone, why not just get a D7000?  I think the 1.3 crop mode, the lack of an AA filter, and the revamped af system must be thrown into the stew (no frogs) of your judgment.

What other lenses are you considering at this point to get the most out of your new camera?

Hi Brev00:

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Perhaps you will understand what I'm trying to do when you understand my photography context... I'll give a few details...

After many years of absence from photography I bought a Panasonic FZ200 super-zoom camera last Fall and happily discovered the world of wildlife photography. After taking about 15,000 shots and going as far as I felt I could with this type of equipment I recently opted to buy a DSLR rig costing me $1800 instead of $600, this is with the 70-300 G VR lens. I am not prepared or able to immediately spend an additional $1000 on a better lens unless and until I can demonstrate to myself that I will be any good at DSLR wildlife photography. Thus, I have set myself the limitation of NOT buying anything else until I master the equipment I now have - which is alleged a top-rated wildlife camera (sharp as all get-out and great AF), plus a not great, but moderately "half-decent" zoom lens).

To sum up, if I can't consistently get nicely-coloured, properly exposed, in-focus images of birds and animals with this rig that means that wildlife photography can't possibly have $2000 as it's entry level, and really requires $3000 expenditure before the images are actually worth looking at. If that is the case, then I'm definitely in the wrong hobby.

And what's more, I'm not satisfied with the D7100 if that shoots only birds well; I want it to do a few more things besides that. I'm not expecting it to shoot flawless portraits in low light like a Canon 5D MKII would do, but I am expecting it to do a wide variety of things reasonably well  under reasonably challenging conditions. That's one of the reasons I shot these images in the camera store under the harsh florescent lights.

Anyways, I have 3 more days left on my trial period and I'll do my best to try various scenarios and see how things come out. Thanks for your help.

Rudy

lock Veteran Member • Posts: 6,202
That explains it

But this would not be case if all Nr in the camera was set to off ?

OP RudyPohl Veteran Member • Posts: 5,538
Re: That explains it

lock wrote:

But this would not be case if all Nr in the camera was set to off ?

Hi lock:

Sorry, I don't understand your question. Could I ask you to restate please?

Thanks,

Rudy

Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,484
Well said

RudyPohl wrote:

Brev00 wrote:

Since I do not own one, I will suggest that you try another set but, this time, in slightly more forgiving light.  In other words, give your lens enough light to operate but use your camera settings to regulate the light.  Then, create a decent but difficult high iso exposure.   Shoot late in the day so you can watch the light dip, shoot outdoors to give yourself some room, and zoom out to a reasonable portrait fl like 135. That will also add some speed to your lens.  Borrow the blond from the store and you are set!  You want to be close enough with enough light to grab focus clean and precise.

Just because the light levels were beyond the limit of your gear in the first set does not mean that the D7100 cannot be an all around camera with consumer type lenses.  I would love to give it a go and compare the results immediately with my D90 and the rest of my kit.  My suspicion, from what I have seen, is that the results would be 1-2 stops better at the higher iso's (shooting more comfortably between 800-1600 instead of considering 400-800 the upper range) with finer grain in the lower registers.  Noise would not completely disappear.  I think you have to weigh the iso benefit with the other features of the camera.  Judging by noise alone, why not just get a D7000?  I think the 1.3 crop mode, the lack of an AA filter, and the revamped af system must be thrown into the stew (no frogs) of your judgment.

What other lenses are you considering at this point to get the most out of your new camera?

Hi Brev00:

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Perhaps you will understand what I'm trying to do when you understand my photography context... I'll give a few details...

After many years of absence from photography I bought a Panasonic FZ200 super-zoom camera last Fall and happily discovered the world of wildlife photography. After taking about 15,000 shots and going as far as I felt I could with this type of equipment I recently opted to buy a DSLR rig costing me $1800 instead of $600, this is with the 70-300 G VR lens. I am not prepared or able to immediately spend an additional $1000 on a better lens unless and until I can demonstrate to myself that I will be any good at DSLR wildlife photography. Thus, I have set myself the limitation of NOT buying anything else until I master the equipment I now have - which is alleged a top-rated wildlife camera (sharp as all get-out and great AF), plus a not great, but moderately "half-decent" zoom lens).

To sum up, if I can't consistently get nicely-coloured, properly exposed, in-focus images of birds and animals with this rig that means that wildlife photography can't possibly have $2000 as it's entry level, and really requires $3000 expenditure before the images are actually worth looking at. If that is the case, then I'm definitely in the wrong hobby.

And what's more, I'm not satisfied with the D7100 if that shoots only birds well; I want it to do a few more things besides that. I'm not expecting it to shoot flawless portraits in low light like a Canon 5D MKII would do, but I am expecting it to do a wide variety of things reasonably well  under reasonably challenging conditions. That's one of the reasons I shot these images in the camera store under the harsh florescent lights.

An excellent approach and well thought out. Certainly merit in that approach. That body and lens combo is easily able to do what you want...folks have been doing it with that lens and much lessor bodies for some time. Many examples of that. Trick will be getting your skill level up in the way that lends itself to your goals. It is not an easy thing...artistic endeavors often aren't. I have a long ways to go myself but enjoy the effort.  Every time I think I'm close someone comes along with a lesson in how much farther I have to go.  I don't mind...free motivation Good Luck!!

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My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

mosswings Veteran Member • Posts: 9,099
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400
2

RudyPohl wrote:

Brev00 wrote:

Since I do not own one, I will suggest that you try another set but, this time, in slightly more forgiving light.  In other words, give your lens enough light to operate but use your camera settings to regulate the light.  Then, create a decent but difficult high iso exposure.   Shoot late in the day so you can watch the light dip, shoot outdoors to give yourself some room, and zoom out to a reasonable portrait fl like 135. That will also add some speed to your lens.  Borrow the blond from the store and you are set!  You want to be close enough with enough light to grab focus clean and precise.

Just because the light levels were beyond the limit of your gear in the first set does not mean that the D7100 cannot be an all around camera with consumer type lenses.  I would love to give it a go and compare the results immediately with my D90 and the rest of my kit.  My suspicion, from what I have seen, is that the results would be 1-2 stops better at the higher iso's (shooting more comfortably between 800-1600 instead of considering 400-800 the upper range) with finer grain in the lower registers.  Noise would not completely disappear.  I think you have to weigh the iso benefit with the other features of the camera.  Judging by noise alone, why not just get a D7000?  I think the 1.3 crop mode, the lack of an AA filter, and the revamped af system must be thrown into the stew (no frogs) of your judgment.

What other lenses are you considering at this point to get the most out of your new camera?

Hi Brev00:

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Perhaps you will understand what I'm trying to do when you understand my photography context... I'll give a few details...

After many years of absence from photography I bought a Panasonic FZ200 super-zoom camera last Fall and happily discovered the world of wildlife photography. After taking about 15,000 shots and going as far as I felt I could with this type of equipment I recently opted to buy a DSLR rig costing me $1800 instead of $600, this is with the 70-300 G VR lens. I am not prepared or able to immediately spend an additional $1000 on a better lens unless and until I can demonstrate to myself that I will be any good at DSLR wildlife photography. Thus, I have set myself the limitation of NOT buying anything else until I master the equipment I now have - which is alleged a top-rated wildlife camera (sharp as all get-out and great AF), plus a not great, but moderately "half-decent" zoom lens).

To sum up, if I can't consistently get nicely-coloured, properly exposed, in-focus images of birds and animals with this rig that means that wildlife photography can't possibly have $2000 as it's entry level, and really requires $3000 expenditure before the images are actually worth looking at. If that is the case, then I'm definitely in the wrong hobby.

And what's more, I'm not satisfied with the D7100 if that shoots only birds well; I want it to do a few more things besides that. I'm not expecting it to shoot flawless portraits in low light like a Canon 5D MKII would do, but I am expecting it to do a wide variety of things reasonably well  under reasonably challenging conditions. That's one of the reasons I shot these images in the camera store under the harsh florescent lights.

Anyways, I have 3 more days left on my trial period and I'll do my best to try various scenarios and see how things come out. Thanks for your help.

Rudy

There is another option open to the many on this forum who have expressed doubts about the value proposition of the D7100 - rent.  A $100 investment buys you 5 days of use through folks like LensRentals.  The downside is that that rental simply adds to the acquisition cost of the new equipment should you choose to buy. But it does have the advantage of removing the purchase pressure from your testing - thus allowing you to think a bit about the protocols.

The downside of renting, of course, is that it takes a lot longer than 5 or 6 days of use to learn a completely new tool and develop the perspective sufficient for you to evaluate its worth.

Therefore, the other way to go about this is to purchase, but expect to sell if you aren't satisfied. You will lose perhaps 20% of what you paid, but using your situation as an example, you get a LOT more use out of the equipment than what you'd get by renting.  $400 is not a lot by DSLR photographic standards.

There is a big difference between the ease of picture taking with a super-zoom and that of a DSLR.  The DSLR can work wonders, but it will also expose any flaws in your technique or the light.  The D7100 is a fabulous camera, but it is not a miracle worker. You are coming from one of the best super-zooms made, and it has something that you can't get on a DSLR for 50 times the price: an f2.8 600mm equivalent telephoto.  In fact, across the board, that FZ-200 has a lens that knocks down the 4-5 stop image quality differential between it and a DSLR sensor by a good 2 stops, particularly with the lens you're using on your D7100. You give up DOF, sure, but a bright lens is a wonderful thing.

I sense a bit of urgency in your posts.  I don't think that you can make this sort of equipment upgrade without the potential for some opportunity risk, or learning cost.  Slow down, take the time (and the workshops) to thoroughly learn your new equipment, keep it if 6 months down the road you like what you're turning out, sell it and move on if you don't.

I still don't have the hang of my still excellent though not top-end equipment...and you can bet I'm doing the acquisitional calculus for this next step up at the highest level I'm capable of, because the improvements become more subtle and more dependent upon personal technique to fully manifest.  People like Horshack are helping with the deep measurements; and those like Jim Pearce are showing what is possible.  And people like Mirceau remind me that it's the light ya gotta get right first.

 mosswings's gear list:mosswings's gear list
Olympus XZ-1 Olympus Stylus 1 Nikon D90 Nikon D7100 Sony a6400 +7 more
Reilly Diefenbach
Reilly Diefenbach Forum Pro • Posts: 13,117
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400

Rudy, please Dropbox the raw of the last one at 6400 and I'll take a crack at it this evening.

 Reilly Diefenbach's gear list:Reilly Diefenbach's gear list
Nikon D500 Nikon D850
joeyv Contributing Member • Posts: 587
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400

Thanks for the samples. They are valid real-world shooting samples except that they were processed w/ too much NR. If you can post the non-NR'ed images, like you did with the iso 6400 image, that would be very helpful for us who want to have an idea of its performance at iso 1600 & 3200.

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joeyv

scokill
scokill Veteran Member • Posts: 5,488
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400

joeyv wrote:

Thanks for the samples. They are valid real-world shooting samples except that they were processed w/ too much NR. If you can post the non-NR'ed images, like you did with the iso 6400 image, that would be very helpful for us who want to have an idea of its performance at iso 1600 & 3200.

Wildlife and indoors  A dirty dog at ISO 3200 SOOC Normal NR

 scokill's gear list:scokill's gear list
Nikon D4 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S 70-200mm F2.8E FL ED VR
mistermejia Veteran Member • Posts: 3,340
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400

RudyPohl wrote:

Brev00 wrote:

Since I do not own one, I will suggest that you try another set but, this time, in slightly more forgiving light.  In other words, give your lens enough light to operate but use your camera settings to regulate the light.  Then, create a decent but difficult high iso exposure.   Shoot late in the day so you can watch the light dip, shoot outdoors to give yourself some room, and zoom out to a reasonable portrait fl like 135. That will also add some speed to your lens.  Borrow the blond from the store and you are set!  You want to be close enough with enough light to grab focus clean and precise.

Just because the light levels were beyond the limit of your gear in the first set does not mean that the D7100 cannot be an all around camera with consumer type lenses.  I would love to give it a go and compare the results immediately with my D90 and the rest of my kit.  My suspicion, from what I have seen, is that the results would be 1-2 stops better at the higher iso's (shooting more comfortably between 800-1600 instead of considering 400-800 the upper range) with finer grain in the lower registers.  Noise would not completely disappear.  I think you have to weigh the iso benefit with the other features of the camera.  Judging by noise alone, why not just get a D7000?  I think the 1.3 crop mode, the lack of an AA filter, and the revamped af system must be thrown into the stew (no frogs) of your judgment.

What other lenses are you considering at this point to get the most out of your new camera?

Hi Brev00:

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Perhaps you will understand what I'm trying to do when you understand my photography context... I'll give a few details...

After many years of absence from photography I bought a Panasonic FZ200 super-zoom camera last Fall and happily discovered the world of wildlife photography. After taking about 15,000 shots and going as far as I felt I could with this type of equipment I recently opted to buy a DSLR rig costing me $1800 instead of $600, this is with the 70-300 G VR lens. I am not prepared or able to immediately spend an additional $1000 on a better lens unless and until I can demonstrate to myself that I will be any good at DSLR wildlife photography. Thus, I have set myself the limitation of NOT buying anything else until I master the equipment I now have - which is alleged a top-rated wildlife camera (sharp as all get-out and great AF), plus a not great, but moderately "half-decent" zoom lens).

To sum up, if I can't consistently get nicely-coloured, properly exposed, in-focus images of birds and animals with this rig that means that wildlife photography can't possibly have $2000 as it's entry level, and really requires $3000 expenditure before the images are actually worth looking at. If that is the case, then I'm definitely in the wrong hobby.

And what's more, I'm not satisfied with the D7100 if that shoots only birds well; I want it to do a few more things besides that. I'm not expecting it to shoot flawless portraits in low light like a Canon 5D MKII would do, but I am expecting it to do a wide variety of things reasonably well  under reasonably challenging conditions. That's one of the reasons I shot these images in the camera store under the harsh florescent lights.

Anyways, I have 3 more days left on my trial period and I'll do my best to try various scenarios and see how things come out. Thanks for your help.

Rudy

Rudy, i don't think you have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to get good images.  For low light situations i suggest you sell or return that 70-300 and for only $100 dollars more or so on Craigslist, get yourself the Tamron 70-200 2.8 non VC.  Forget the extra 100mm on that Nikon lens.  I think you will be a lot more happy if you make that move.  Heck, i use a manual focus Vivitar Series 1 70-210 f2.8 and i like it more than my former 70-300 AFS VR, but mostly because it only cost me $85 dollars   The rest of the money i used to buy me some other goodies and to take my wife out to dinner.  Get yourserlf some 35 to 85mm primes too.  They don't cost much and test those suckers at f4 to f5.6 and see how the photos look with that D7100.  Good luck boss.

 mistermejia's gear list:mistermejia's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Tamron SP AF 70-200mm F/2.8 Di LD (IF) MACRO Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R +6 more
yray
yray Senior Member • Posts: 1,739
Re: D7100 - Face close-ups test images, harsh lighting, ISO 1600-6400

As you said, it is what it is. The exact same approach to cleaning up high ISO images D7000 applies. Fine detail is quickly lost, and eventually most detail is lost. Sometimes I wonder if DX high ISO advances beyond D300 mainly consist of applying more noise reduction. However, if not looked at at 100%, it still can be usable... sort of.

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