SLT-A99V Color Contamination

Started Mar 29, 2013 | Discussions
cosmonaut
cosmonaut Senior Member • Posts: 2,223
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination
1

Don't feel bad I get a weird red tone with my D800 as well. It's rare that it does it. I think it's a WB issue. But being digital I just shot again.

OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

cosmonaut wrote:

Don't feel bad I get a weird red tone with my D800 as well. It's rare that it does it. I think it's a WB issue. But being digital I just shot again.

Hey, I just want to understand if I (heaven forbid) am doing something wrong...

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Clint

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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

OK, everybody who has written and suggested and asked...

First: AN ALL-IN-CAPS THANK YOU!!!  For suggesting I try ACR and check to see if there is a difference in results. Yes, there certainly is. ACR does way better with the problems then does Aperture. So, it looks like I will make the dreaded 600+ gigabyte switch to Lightroom/ACR after all. (UGH!)

I just uploaded two phat jpgs converted in ACR here  and here for everyone's viewing pleasure. No Ps, just levels and nothing else. There is still a dramatic shift in grain structure, smearing and colorization in the shadows only visible at 100% and higher. (Yes, I do pixel-peep and proud of it:-) So, we will wait and see what Sony has to say...

But, fair is fair and ACR does make a surprising difference to the better. Way to go, Adobe. And again, thanks to all of you for your input. I am indeed most appreciative of all the advice!

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Clint

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stan_pustylnik Veteran Member • Posts: 3,945
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination
1

I think it is Aperture 3.4.3 to blame.

Try Sony's IDC converter, don't forget to 0 DRO setting from default. ISO 200 should produce flawless result.

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Person is taking photos, not camera. When photograph is bad, it's because photographer doesn't know how to choose settings optimal to "own preferences". Then blames camera for bad IQ.
This is same as blaming car about arriving to wrong destination.
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VirtualMirage
VirtualMirage Veteran Member • Posts: 3,956
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination
1

samael9 wrote:

OK, everybody who has written and suggested and asked...

First: AN ALL-IN-CAPS THANK YOU!!!  For suggesting I try ACR and check to see if there is a difference in results. Yes, there certainly is. ACR does way better with the problems then does Aperture. So, it looks like I will make the dreaded 600+ gigabyte switch to Lightroom/ACR after all. (UGH!)

I just uploaded two phat jpgs converted in ACR here  and here for everyone's viewing pleasure. No Ps, just levels and nothing else. There is still a dramatic shift in grain structure, smearing and colorization in the shadows only visible at 100% and higher. (Yes, I do pixel-peep and proud of it:-) So, we will wait and see what Sony has to say...

But, fair is fair and ACR does make a surprising difference to the better. Way to go, Adobe. And again, thanks to all of you for your input. I am indeed most appreciative of all the advice!

That is a huge improvement! I am glad to see we are now figuring out where the problem is.

But taking a comparative look between the two images of the lady, it looks like you might have some presets enabled in Aperture.  I notice this since the teeth have been whitened as well as the eyes.  White balance or RAW processing engine by default shouldn't do this, but presets, auto corrects, or the like can.  If some of these presets are being applied unknowingly to the whole image, that can cause problems.  So I would recommend double checking how Aperture is configured and make sure that you don't have some settings enabled that, while beneficial when touching up certain spots is fine, that they are not applying themselves to the whole picture.

It also looks like the contrast, vibrance, or saturation is turned up a little higher in Aperture too by default.  See how the blues in the scarf are being crushed and how much darker the eyebrows and eyeliner is in the Aperture image.  While some of it can be pleasing, it can ruin an image if not controlled properly.

Both of the issues I mentioned above might be attributing to your posterization if those settings are not being applied locally and, instead, being applied to the whole image.

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Paul

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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

VirtualMirage wrote:

samael9 wrote:

OK, everybody who has written and suggested and asked...

First: AN ALL-IN-CAPS THANK YOU!!!  For suggesting I try ACR and check to see if there is a difference in results. Yes, there certainly is. ACR does way better with the problems then does Aperture. So, it looks like I will make the dreaded 600+ gigabyte switch to Lightroom/ACR after all. (UGH!)

I just uploaded two phat jpgs converted in ACR here  and here for everyone's viewing pleasure. No Ps, just levels and nothing else. There is still a dramatic shift in grain structure, smearing and colorization in the shadows only visible at 100% and higher. (Yes, I do pixel-peep and proud of it:-) So, we will wait and see what Sony has to say...

But, fair is fair and ACR does make a surprising difference to the better. Way to go, Adobe. And again, thanks to all of you for your input. I am indeed most appreciative of all the advice!

That is a huge improvement! I am glad to see we are now figuring out where the problem is.

But taking a comparative look between the two images of the lady, it looks like you might have some presets enabled in Aperture.  I notice this since the teeth have been whitened as well as the eyes.  White balance or RAW processing engine by default shouldn't do this, but presets, auto corrects, or the like can.  If some of these presets are being applied unknowingly to the whole image, that can cause problems.  So I would recommend double checking how Aperture is configured and make sure that you don't have some settings enabled that, while beneficial when touching up certain spots is fine, that they are not applying themselves to the whole picture.

It also looks like the contrast, vibrance, or saturation is turned up a little higher in Aperture too by default.  See how the blues in the scarf are being crushed and how much darker the eyebrows and eyeliner is in the Aperture image.  While some of it can be pleasing, it can ruin an image if not controlled properly.

Both of the issues I mentioned above might be attributing to your posterization if those settings are not being applied locally and, instead, being applied to the whole image.

Hey Paul, the first picture of the mother has been fully 'shopped. I edited it completely and Nik'd it before putting it up in one of my galleries on Smug. Sharp eyes, Paul!!! The second "mother" was just the ACR conversion as suggested with a tad of higher-end curves to boost brightness slightly.
Awesome suggestions! Thanks, Paul!

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Clint

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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

stan_pustylnik wrote:

I think it is Aperture 3.4.3 to blame.

Try Sony's IDC converter, don't forget to 0 DRO setting from default. ISO 200 should produce flawless result.

Thank you, Stan! Yeah... Low ISO is turning in spectacular results. Aperture definitely sees and converts differently then ACR. I have yet to check out IDC. Gotta get out from in front of my screen for a walk, but I'll give it a spin later.

I appreciate the suggestion!

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Clint

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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

Just an update... Sony did follow through this afternoon. They asked that I upload sample RAW files for their inspection. Clearly, ACR did way better then Aperture in converting the images, so thanks to Paul and everyone else who suggested it.
I've got three bad images heading up to my Dropbox this afternoon, so we will see what they have to say.

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Clint

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Robsphoto
Robsphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,219
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

samael9 wrote:

Just an update... Sony did follow through this afternoon. They asked that I upload sample RAW files for their inspection. Clearly, ACR did way better then Aperture in converting the images, so thanks to Paul and everyone else who suggested it.
I've got three bad images heading up to my Dropbox this afternoon, so we will see what they have to say.

I would also be interested to hear what Sony has to say on this issue. Recently, I took some very high ISO images with the Sony A99 in the nocturnal house at a popular New Zealand nature reserve, as described here:

http://www.robsphotography.co.nz/blog-2-April-2013.html

Here is a scaled-down version of one of the images, a Brown Kiwi, which looks rather green!

The above image was captured by the Sony A99 at 1/15 second, F/2.8, ISO 16000, with a focal length of 45mm. The light was so low that I was pleased to get a hand-held image at all, so I’m not complaining because the green cast can be removed with post processing. I also took a photograph of an owl, the nocturnal morepork, and this also exhibited a green cast. Because of the glass enclosure, flash photography was not practical, and there wasn’t time to set up a tripod. Any suggestions as to what may have caused this green cast?

Cheers

Rob

www.robsphotography.co.nz

Chris Malcolm Senior Member • Posts: 2,063
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

What was the scene illumination? Fluorescent tubes? Compact fluorescent? LED? All of those especially older cheaper ones, can produce a green cast. Then of course there's the old problem of light being reflected off green walls or green leaves. The auto WB feature of your visual cortex would have concealed the cast from you while you were there.

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Chris Malcolm

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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

Chris Malcolm wrote:

What was the scene illumination? Fluorescent tubes? Compact fluorescent? LED? All of those especially older cheaper ones, can produce a green cast. Then of course there's the old problem of light being reflected off green walls or green leaves. The auto WB feature of your visual cortex would have concealed the cast from you while you were there.

Thanks, Chris! It was florescent, but very dim, mixed with a speedlight. The issue was a red one, however.

And to everyone else who contributed thoughts and comments:

I have a very engaging conversation with a member of Sony's technical department today. Way more involved then SOny's front line of customer service agents. They didn't see any contamination issues in the RAW files I put up for them in my dropbox.
I've played extensively now with the 'bad ones" in ACR as suggested, and no, I don't think that there is a problem with the camera body either. It does, however, feel good that Sony is aware of the problem seemingly exacerbated in Aperture and now has a file available for other A99 shooters, should the problem arise for someone else. No surprise here that I would be the first to call in with such an issue as they've not heard of this before.
They really looked at this carefully and wanted to be helpful. I am glad to say they succeeded with me and I am very satisfied with Sony's interest on this. Also, I am grateful that my intuition led me to this forum and I would like to extend my appreciation for everyone's input.

I did take the opportunity, while they were on the phone with me to bring up a point having to do with the advanced owner's manual (on disc) included with the body. Page 116 does imply that the A99 can wirelessly control off-camera flashes internally. This isn't the case, and was cause for nearly 3.5 hours on the phone during my first customer service experience, which ended rather furiously.

The technician was in fact aware of this inaccuracy, and indeed SOny will be issuing some sort of update and/or correction.

So, happily still shooting, questions answered.

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Clint Kapp
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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

Robsphoto wrote:

samael9 wrote:

Just an update... Sony did follow through this afternoon. They asked that I upload sample RAW files for their inspection. Clearly, ACR did way better then Aperture in converting the images, so thanks to Paul and everyone else who suggested it.
I've got three bad images heading up to my Dropbox this afternoon, so we will see what they have to say.

I would also be interested to hear what Sony has to say on this issue. Recently, I took some very high ISO images with the Sony A99 in the nocturnal house at a popular New Zealand nature reserve, as described here:

http://www.robsphotography.co.nz/blog-2-April-2013.html

Here is a scaled-down version of one of the images, a Brown Kiwi, which looks rather green!

The above image was captured by the Sony A99 at 1/15 second, F/2.8, ISO 16000, with a focal length of 45mm. The light was so low that I was pleased to get a hand-held image at all, so I’m not complaining because the green cast can be removed with post processing. I also took a photograph of an owl, the nocturnal morepork, and this also exhibited a green cast. Because of the glass enclosure, flash photography was not practical, and there wasn’t time to set up a tripod. Any suggestions as to what may have caused this green cast?

Cheers

Rob

www.robsphotography.co.nz

Florescent will definitely do that to a picture. There's 3 white balance settings for florescent as well as a manual Kelvin scale to play with. In the future, it's really fun to play with the manual white balance setting as not only can you use it as to correct for certain lighting, but make for some fairly interesting creative effects.

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Clint Kapp
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stan_pustylnik Veteran Member • Posts: 3,945
post processing issues including WB
2

I certanly stumbled upon unusual WB issues during 4 years use of A850. one was rediculously funny.

I made series of fast shots for time lapse, but forgot to pre-set WB. After processing images in BULK in vivid mode - ended with so different colored images that time-lapse looked most rediculos.

Other time I forgot to over-write default DRO setting and ended up with visible noise in shadows at ISO 200.

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Person is taking photos, not camera. When photograph is bad, it's because photographer doesn't know how to choose settings optimal to "own preferences". Then blames camera for bad IQ.
This is same as blaming car about arriving to wrong destination.
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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: post processing issues including WB

stan_pustylnik wrote:

I certanly stumbled upon unusual WB issues during 4 years use of A850. one was rediculously funny.

I made series of fast shots for time lapse, but forgot to pre-set WB. After processing images in BULK in vivid mode - ended with so different colored images that time-lapse looked most rediculos.

Other time I forgot to over-write default DRO setting and ended up with visible noise in shadows at ISO 200.

Forgetting to re-set setting? Serious? I never do that

Looked at your catalog on Smug of Paris, Stan. Oh, one of these days... Nice work, sir! The A99 primarily lives in Manual mode, which generally helps keep me present and involved with what's happening. The X-E1 lives in B&W and I giggle when I call it my M9 Mono.

This stuff is fun, isn't it?

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Robsphoto
Robsphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,219
Sony A99 High ISO Images
1

samael9 wrote:

Robsphoto wrote:

samael9 wrote:

Just an update... Sony did follow through this afternoon. They asked that I upload sample RAW files for their inspection. Clearly, ACR did way better then Aperture in converting the images, so thanks to Paul and everyone else who suggested it.
I've got three bad images heading up to my Dropbox this afternoon, so we will see what they have to say.

I would also be interested to hear what Sony has to say on this issue. Recently, I took some very high ISO images with the Sony A99 in the nocturnal house at a popular New Zealand nature reserve, as described here:

http://www.robsphotography.co.nz/blog-2-April-2013.html

Florescent will definitely do that to a picture. There's 3 white balance settings for florescent as well as a manual Kelvin scale to play with. In the future, it's really fun to play with the manual white balance setting as not only can you use it as to correct for certain lighting, but make for some fairly interesting creative effects.

Thanks Clint, I agree that it probably was the type of lighting used in the nocturnal house that was the primary cause of the green cast that occurred in my high ISO images that were captured in near darkness.

I did a few A99 tests today in very low light using ISO 16000, and these were pretty good and showed little evidence of major color casts. I also tried the same sort of tests with my Sony A55, and the A99 results were a great deal better, as you would expect.

I think the A99 images I have taken in almost complete darkness at ISO 16000 and above show how good the camera is, and the noise in these images is well below what I had expected.

I think that it's necessary to do lots of high ISO tests in many types of lighting before you can conclude that the A99 has "color contamination" problems. In addition, I think it's a good idea to compare the A99 results with what other Sony cameras produce under the same lighting conditions.

Regards

Rob

www.robsphotography.co.nz

dennismullen
dennismullen Veteran Member • Posts: 9,019
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

I finally got an acknowledgment from DxO that this is a problem.
"Hello,
Thank you for your interest in DxO Labs and for reporting this problem to us.
We are aware of this issue and are currently working on it to solve it as soon as possible.
Best regards,
The DxO Labs team "
I hope it's solved soon as it's almost unusable to me as is.
Cheers,

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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

It really is camera-love with the A99. I shot this one on a tripod with my oh-so-cheap Rokinon 1.4:85mm and one also oh-so-cheap DLC LED from about 6' back. The Rik is very demanding, but I love what it does. We actually cleaned the bottle before shooting it, but obviously the towel left some lint. Oh well. At 100% is just plain silly...

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Clint Kapp
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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

Well All,

Very interesting with this color smear/posterization thing in low light and shadows. I shot some underexposed snaps with my X-E1 last night in B&W and loaded them in to Aperture this morning, and guess what? Same problem. Aperture is doing something weird with the dark areas, just like it did with the A99 images. And, the X-E1 pix are OOC jpgs, all of which look perfect in Ps CS6. So, it doesn't seem to matter to Aperture regarding jpg's or ARW files, it messes them both up equally.

Bummer. I like Aperture. Hmm...

So... it's off to another thread-hunt to see if any other Aperture users are having similar issues.

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dennismullen
dennismullen Veteran Member • Posts: 9,019
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

My A65 is not having the same severe green cast in DxO as my A99 but it does lean slightly that way with DxO, and like the A99, slightly magenta in ACR.

There are growing pains with these cameras that were all worked out with the A900.

Cheers,

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OP samael9 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: SLT-A99V Color Contamination

dennismullen wrote:

My A65 is not having the same severe green cast in DxO as my A99 but it does lean slightly that way with DxO, and like the A99, slightly magenta in ACR.

There are growing pains with these cameras that were all worked out with the A900.

Cheers,

Hey Dennis,

Try opening the files in ACR if you have it. I've not used any of DxO's apps, but Aperture was the culprit in my situation, and I am not alone, either. I just got back from the Aperture support page on Apple, and the tales of woe go on for 4 pages in this one particular thread. I didn't bother looking for others as this one was about all I needed.

So to all my fellow Aperture users with funky-town image problems... Looks light making a migration to Lightroom could be in our future... I signed up with Adobe's Creative Cloud subscription and really, I couldn't be happier. I have everything now. Doesn't mean I know how to use it all, but, like everything else, I'm having fun learnings as I go.

I just finished downloading Google/Nik's all-in-one as a free upgrade to when I bought the individual apps about 6 months ago. SO it's photo-party central on my iMac. WooHoo!

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Clint Kapp
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