This Forum has gone to the dogs!

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: Wrong

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Peter A. Stavrakoglou wrote:

diolus wrote:

You just proved him right.

No he didn't.  Since when is disagreeing with the OP and providing some sage advice proving him right?  It was a far better man than any of us who said to "First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye."

Yes he did - the sarcastic comment,

"You nened to look in the mirror before you look out the window."

pretty much sums up the post.

Rick doesn't need me to defend him, but I'll comment anyone.
The OP is painting everyone with a very broad brush. Very broad brush.
quote
By all I mean everyone. Senior down to junior members, Newbies, Lurkers, and yes, even trolls. What, in tarnation, has come over some, most, all of the posters?  Why all the sarcasm, back-biting, and all?
unquote
"Sarcasm, back-biting and all"

That is quite an exaggeration IMHO. Unlined, all, everyone, etc... just in the first paragraph.
This 'broad brush' approach and condemnation is quite unwarranted.... as well as not accurate. Thus Rick makes a philosophical, moreso than "sarcastic" suggestion, that the OP examine his own comments, ie his post, by Rick's "look in the mirror" comment.

Best regards, Sandy
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Truman Prevatt
Truman Prevatt Veteran Member • Posts: 7,971
Re: Wrong
1

My only comment is maybe everyone on this forum and most of the forums I've seen on DPreview should spend some time looking in the mirror.

DPreview seriously needs a strong moderation policy.

Truman

SandyF wrote:

Thus Rick makes a philosophical, moreso than "sarcastic" suggestion, that the OP examine his own comments, ie his post, by Rick's "look in the mirror" comment.

Best regards, Sandy
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SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: Wrong

Truman Prevatt wrote:

My only comment is maybe everyone on this forum and most of the forums I've seen on DPreview should spend some time looking in the mirror.

DPreview seriously needs a strong moderation policy.

Truman

SandyF wrote:

Thus Rick makes a philosophical, moreso than "sarcastic" suggestion, that the OP examine his own comments, ie his post, by Rick's "look in the mirror" comment.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

Philosophically, I personally do that... look in the mirror.

I ... and quite a few people here.... try to be helpful, stay out of 'fights' etc. Thus my own disagreement with the original post, which condems everyone.... you, me, all those who are indeed trying to participate in a positive and helpful manner. I feel the blanket condemnation is unwarranted.

Best regards, Sandy
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jrdigitalart
jrdigitalart Veteran Member • Posts: 3,877
Re: Wrong

SandyF wrote:

Philosophically, I personally do that... look in the mirror.

That's the spirit, Sandy!

I ... and quite a few people here.... try to be helpful, stay out of 'fights' etc. Thus my own disagreement with the original post, which condems everyone.... you, me, all those who are indeed trying to participate in a positive and helpful manner. I feel the blanket condemnation is unwarranted.

As for giving trolls a break, why? Their fundamental intent is to deceive, disrupt, voice hatred, instill unrest, discredit advice and waste genuine helpers productivity. That deserves exposure.

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Peter A. Stavrakoglou Veteran Member • Posts: 7,916
Re: Wrong

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Peter A. Stavrakoglou wrote:

diolus wrote:

You just proved him right.

No he didn't.  Since when is disagreeing with the OP and providing some sage advice proving him right?  It was a far better man than any of us who said to "First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye."

Yes he did - the sarcastic comment,

"You nened to look in the mirror before you look out the window."

pretty much sums up the post.

And that sounds just like the advice you gave in the comment to Sandy's post about someone spending time looking in the mirror.  Were you being sarcastic when you made that post?  If not, then you cannot make the judgment that Rick was being sarcastic.

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Truman Prevatt
Truman Prevatt Veteran Member • Posts: 7,971
Re: Wrong

Peter A. Stavrakoglou wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Peter A. Stavrakoglou wrote:

diolus wrote:

You just proved him right.

No he didn't.  Since when is disagreeing with the OP and providing some sage advice proving him right?  It was a far better man than any of us who said to "First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye."

Yes he did - the sarcastic comment,

"You nened to look in the mirror before you look out the window."

pretty much sums up the post.

And that sounds just like the advice you gave in the comment to Sandy's post about someone spending time looking in the mirror.  Were you being sarcastic when you made that post?  If not, then you cannot make the judgment that Rick was being sarcastic.

Slick,  I have no idea what you are talking about.  I suspect you might be making it up.  Please supply the reference.

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PhotoKhan Forum Pro • Posts: 10,717
Re: True (^_^) The lack of cats is disturbing (NT)

Richard Franiec wrote:

alpha90290 wrote:

Not really. Here is the typical Sigma forum cat: intent, focused and ready to pounce.

Sorry for the Nutella. 

Go get them, Tiger...

Cheers,

Richard

First I was about to comment on how feeble the overall scene/composition was, based on the small displayed image.

Then I clicked in the full image and was impressed with the excellent quality of the image.

Then, I checked the EXIF and found out it was taken with a Canon 1DMKIV+70-200 f/4 and went "...it figures...".

...Why is it Sigma related, again?

PK

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Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec Senior Member • Posts: 2,540
Re: True (^_^) The lack of cats is disturbing (NT)

PhotoKhan wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

alpha90290 wrote:

Not really. Here is the typical Sigma forum cat: intent, focused and ready to pounce.

Sorry for the Nutella. 

Go get them, Tiger...

Cheers,

Richard

First I was about to comment on how feeble the overall scene/composition was, based on the small displayed image.

The scene lasted only a few seconds before this female leopard jumped and got engaged in a fight with another one. This was during mating season.

Then I clicked in the full image and was impressed with the excellent quality of the image.

Then, I checked the EXIF and found out it was taken with a Canon 1DMKIV+70-200 f/4 and went "...it figures...".

Yeah, I was hoping that my Nutella  comment will give me some slack.

...Why is it Sigma related, again?

Not related to sigma but it was my humorous take on response to the thread. The cat!, The cat!, I guess I screwed up. 

PK

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Peter A. Stavrakoglou Veteran Member • Posts: 7,916
Re: Wrong

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Peter A. Stavrakoglou wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Peter A. Stavrakoglou wrote:

diolus wrote:

You just proved him right.

No he didn't.  Since when is disagreeing with the OP and providing some sage advice proving him right?  It was a far better man than any of us who said to "First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye."

Yes he did - the sarcastic comment,

"You nened to look in the mirror before you look out the window."

pretty much sums up the post.

And that sounds just like the advice you gave in the comment to Sandy's post about someone spending time looking in the mirror.  Were you being sarcastic when you made that post?  If not, then you cannot make the judgment that Rick was being sarcastic.

Slick,  I have no idea what you are talking about.  I suspect you might be making it up.  Please supply the reference.

Hey Slick, guess you forget your own posts http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51177535

Read and then you'll get the reference.  I'll give you a chance to retract the statement that I'm making it up but somehow I imagine you won't.  I won't lose sleep over it.

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MOD rick decker Forum Pro • Posts: 15,480
Re: True (^_^) The lack of cats is disturbing (NT)

I don't feel you have screwed up.  Your intention was "healthy".  Some feel that a rule is a rule and if one person can ignore it, then all can and there is chaos.  If your picture weren't related to the cat post,  it would be more of an issue.

If you really feel bad you can say 5 Hail Marys, 3 Our Fathers, and send me a grip for when I get my DP3M (and can hold a camera again).

Hope things are well with  you.

R

Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec Senior Member • Posts: 2,540
Re: True (^_^) The lack of cats is disturbing (NT)

rick decker wrote:

I don't feel you have screwed up.  Your intention was "healthy".  Some feel that a rule is a rule and if one person can ignore it, then all can and there is chaos.  If your picture weren't related to the cat post,  it would be more of an issue.

If you really feel bad you can say 5 Hail Marys, 3 Our Fathers, and send me a grip for when I get my DP3M (and can hold a camera again).

Hope things are well with  you.

R

Thanks Rick,

I feel better now and promise not to tamper with covenants of the forum. I take the punishment with hope for absolution.

Wishing you speedy recovery!

Cheers,

Richard

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PicOne
PicOne Veteran Member • Posts: 6,931
Re: Wrong

jrdigitalart wrote:

SandyF wrote:

Philosophically, I personally do that... look in the mirror.

That's the spirit, Sandy!

I ... and quite a few people here.... try to be helpful, stay out of 'fights' etc. Thus my own disagreement with the original post, which condems everyone.... you, me, all those who are indeed trying to participate in a positive and helpful manner. I feel the blanket condemnation is unwarranted.

As for giving trolls a break, why? Their fundamental intent is to deceive, disrupt, voice hatred, instill unrest, discredit advice and waste genuine helpers productivity. That deserves exposure.

No.  Those things you list are not the intent, but the tools by which they achieve their goal, which is to get as large of a reaction, by as many people possible, as they possibly can.  Any reaction, and as much reaction as possible.   They generally probably don't even believe a third of what they say.  "Exposing" this behavior, just "feeds" them, as whatever you may point out will end up in debate, and drag a thread into 150 posts of back n'forth drivel.

Kendall provided a link to a suitable example..  How many people in this thread attempted to expose the troll? Do yo consider their efforts were successful?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51161290

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

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PhotoKhan Forum Pro • Posts: 10,717
Re: True (^_^) The lack of cats is disturbing (NT)
1

rick decker wrote:

Some feel that a rule is a rule and if one person can ignore it, then all can and there is chaos.

That wouldn't be me for sure. If not for anything else, because I don't even know what the "rules" are around here.

I only checked in because of this feature DPR has where the "Top Threads" (...for which ranking I don't know the rules either...) appears on the right side of "my" forum (the "anything Canon you can drop there Forum").

It just struck me as curious that a Sigma user has lost all faith his "SigFov Special Look" up to the point of actually using a photo taken with another brand material to claim something as "typical Sigma forum", while not disclaiming it isn't actually a Sigma-originated image.

...and if the cryptic "Nutella" reference was actually derogatory inside-reference that was intended to signalize this was an "inferior" shot from another brand's equipment, then you guys are even more clueless than I thought because, precisely, this shot perfectly demonstrates all that is superiorly good about the combo used to take it.

PK

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Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec Senior Member • Posts: 2,540
Re: True (^_^) The lack of cats is disturbing (NT)

PhotoKhan wrote:

rick decker wrote:

Some feel that a rule is a rule and if one person can ignore it, then all can and there is chaos.

That wouldn't be me for sure. If not for anything else, because I don't even know what the "rules" are around here.

I only checked in because of this feature DPR has where the "Top Threads" (...for which ranking I don't know the rules either...) appears on the right side of "my" forum (the "anything Canon you can drop there Forum").

It just struck me as curious that a Sigma user has lost all faith his "SigFov Special Look" up to the point of actually using a photo taken with another brand material to claim something as "typical Sigma forum", while not disclaiming it isn't actually a Sigma-originated image.

Your interpretation (or insinuation) is wrong. I've not lost any faith in "Foveon Special Look", actually just opposite. I use gear from both brands, depending on application and situation. Both technologies complements each other nicely for their strengths and weaknesses.

I'll suggest that you read the first sentence of OP in the context to the title of post I was responding to. Maybe then you'll understand my humorous meaning of "typical Sigma forum (you forgot to add) cat". "Nutella" reference was serving as a disclaimer for non Sigma gear. Also, for the same reason, I have not removed EXIF info which is self-explanatory.

Anyway, this is the only picture of cat that I have which best illustrates my tongue-in-cheek post.

...and if the cryptic "Nutella" reference was actually derogatory inside-reference that was intended to signalize this was an "inferior" shot from another brand's equipment, then you guys are even more clueless than I thought because, precisely, this shot perfectly demonstrates all that is superiorly good about the combo used to take it.

I'm glad that you like the shot but please, don't read too much into "Nutella" stuff. The whole post was intended to be humorous if you noticed the emoticons.

On the serious note, Rick and Kendall are periodically organizing tour of large prints made with Foveon based gear. It could be the eye opener for Foveon skeptics.

Cheers

Richard

PK

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yvind Strm Veteran Member • Posts: 4,130
Re: You have only to look to the right to see far worse

Wow, Kendall.

Thanks for the link. The most hilarious thread I have read for a long time.

My fav: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51164098

And where Joseph states that he has designed lenses, the OP can´t even spell lens.

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Check out almost any other forum as linked to in the "Top Threads in dppreview.com" sidebar on the right.  Including this "howler" of a thread chock full of arrrogant people with 'tude to the MAX.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51161290

Read a few of those threads and this place starts to look like play-school with a few kids who have gone too long without a diaper change.

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Øyvind

yvind Strm Veteran Member • Posts: 4,130
Re: True (^_^) The lack of cats is disturbing (NT)

PK

Is Nutella inside-reference now? And derogatory?

Have we not succeed in promoting that term? What about Bayer Mush? No? Not that either? Sigh.

Is it not common knowledge that Foveon sensors has much better per pixel sharpness than Bayer? I bet you have to sharpen every one of your shots.

Sorry, could´t resist. Yep, we do use some internal terms, maybe to justify our purchase of a great sensor in a not so great implementation in a less than perfect camera.

Many people here use other systems when the Sigmas does not cut it.

PhotoKhan wrote:

rick decker wrote:

Some feel that a rule is a rule and if one person can ignore it, then all can and there is chaos.

That wouldn't be me for sure. If not for anything else, because I don't even know what the "rules" are around here.

I only checked in because of this feature DPR has where the "Top Threads" (...for which ranking I don't know the rules either...) appears on the right side of "my" forum (the "anything Canon you can drop there Forum").

It just struck me as curious that a Sigma user has lost all faith his "SigFov Special Look" up to the point of actually using a photo taken with another brand material to claim something as "typical Sigma forum", while not disclaiming it isn't actually a Sigma-originated image.

...and if the cryptic "Nutella" reference was actually derogatory inside-reference that was intended to signalize this was an "inferior" shot from another brand's equipment, then you guys are even more clueless than I thought because, precisely, this shot perfectly demonstrates all that is superiorly good about the combo used to take it.

PK

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Kind regards
Øyvind

PhotoKhan Forum Pro • Posts: 10,717
Re: True (^_^) The lack of cats is disturbing (NT)

yvind Strm wrote:

I bet you have to sharpen every one of your shots.

For sure...but that's a bit like saying to a cook you bet he has to wash all his salad's vegetables.

...on the other hand, I don't spend 1/1000th of the time you guys spend correcting colors while trying to figure out why the color wheel transmuted into a lemoine hexagon the minute it stepped into Sigma's realm.

PK

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yvind Strm Veteran Member • Posts: 4,130
Re: Colors

PhotoKhan wrote:

yvind Strm wrote:

I bet you have to sharpen every one of your shots.

For sure...but that's a bit like saying to a cook you bet he has to wash all his salad's vegetables.

...on the other hand, I don't spend 1/1000th of the time you guys spend correcting colors while trying to figure out why the color wheel transmuted into a lemoine hexagon the minute it stepped into Sigma's realm.

A bit of truth in that. But, with normal shooting with my SD14, I hardly do any PP (including color correction). The colors are pleasant, and very usable. However, product shots and art repro where correct colors are vital, is a complete other ballgame. It is boring to have to profile the camera for every new setting.

Unfortunately, I have not so many pictures up at the moment.

Some here (thumbnail only): http://www.bonderoevsferie.dk/Hvem_og_hvor/hvem_og_hvor.html


Sunset, SD14

Sunset, SD14

PK

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Kind regards
Øyvind

PhotoKhan Forum Pro • Posts: 10,717
Re: Colors
1

yvind Strm wrote:

A bit of truth in that. But, with normal shooting with my SD14, I hardly do any PP (including color correction). The colors are pleasant, and very usable. However, product shots and art repro where correct colors are vital, is a complete other ballgame. It is boring to have to profile the camera for every new setting.

Unfortunately, I have not so many pictures up at the moment.

Some here (thumbnail only): http://www.bonderoevsferie.dk/Hvem_og_hvor/hvem_og_hvor.html


Sunset, SD14

Sunset, SD14

PK

Very nice, Øyvind...I like it a lot, especially the "underplay".

I feel this might be a perfect vehicle for me to, once more (...pfhew...) try understand what are you guys talking about, regarding "inbuilt sharpness". Can you tell me what the PP was on this one and send me a full-sized file my way? (...watermark it for peace of mind, if you want.)

...Because, to me, that jaguar photo posted above is pretty impressive, technically-wise and I don't think a Foveon DSLR (including the now aptly priced, superior performing Merrill SD1) could come close to what is going on there, "perceived sharpness" included.

Why is the jaguar photo impressive?

1. The light is mostly "flat" and, yet, on my calibrated Eizo CG243W, the animal just "pops" out from the photo, with an almost "3D" quality to it.

2. The colors palette is a mute one and, yet, there's no color cast what-so-ever in the photo.

3. The "perceived sharpness" (..."perceived" because I don't have access to the full sized photo but can already appreciate what goes on at 1.600px...) is neither "undercooked" or "overcooked" but, instead, aptly caters for that overall "3D" effect.

4. The power of the 1DMKIV AF (...and, mind you, the 1DX is even vastly superior in this department...) can clearly be seen by the discrimination it managed to achieve between the animal's features/patterns and the surrounding fore and back planes, full of perfect lines for an AF to pick on.

What saddens me is that, as a community, you managed to turn Foveon from a technological solution into almost a cult, by "seeing" things that are not actually there, while ignoring the blatant limitations it encompasses.

You've done so by twisting reality up to a point whereas you guys actually say with a straight face that having to resort to other systems to accomplish what you're really after (...when you know what you're really after...) is actually a bonus, because it correlates with "diversification".

You elevated that denial practice up to an art form, one that had it's superior, mind-boggling,  surreal validation when you actually managed to convince the manufacturer of the products, themselves, (...by delusionally patitng them on the back in a disastrous autistic reinforcement loop..) up to the level of entrapping them into coming up with such an absurd, absurd price-point for the SD1 that only a painful commercial "reality check" could have (...and has...) issued.

If Tim Michin was into photography you guys would be so busted...

PK

(...with respect for both you guys and your photography something, I fear, may sometimes not come across with my choice of words...)

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