This Forum has gone to the dogs!

Started Mar 27, 2013 | Discussions
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Jumus Forum Member • Posts: 56
This Forum has gone to the dogs!
11

I don't need to go into a detailed explanation about my statement, it is all too painfully obvious to all who visit this forum. By all I mean everyone. Senior down to junior members, Newbies, Lurkers, and yes, even trolls. What, in tarnation, has come over some, most, all of the posters?  Why all the sarcasm, back-biting, and all?

Just, CUT IT OUT! Let's get back to the business of cameras and digital photography. Otherwise, I swear, I will put a curse on all of you!

Let me repeat. CUT IT OUT. Let's get on with the business of the Forum...Sigma Camera Talk.

So, Here Goes...

In October 2009 I purchased a Sigma DP2 Camera.
Prior to my purchase I had spent numerous hours reading the posts in the Sigma Forum, and looking at the DP2 images posted and referenced. What a wealth of information. Thank you all for your posts.
I didn't become a member at that time because I really didn't have anything to offer the forum. I was new to digital cameras and digital photography and was, and still am, at the age of 71, on a learning curve.
My interest in photography started in the early 60's. I had a Mamiya Twin Lens reflex camera with a couple of lenses. I setup a darkroom and purchased as much "outdated" B&W roll film as I could afford. I went out and shot roll after roll of film, developed them and learned the craft to the point that I could see, from the negative, if I had composed and exposed the photograph correctly. I read a lot about photography and talked to other photographers. (I like Cartier-Bresson's work a lot.)

Long story short, I became interested in digital photography around 2003 or so. Got a couple of cameras took lots of images developed them with PC software and didn't like the IQ of my images.

My search for a decent camera led me to DPreview and eventually to the Sigma Forum. What a great place to get the skinny on cameras and techniques of digital image taking.  Those were the days.  Again, thank-you all very much for allowing me to "Lurk".  I must admit that I was somewhat intimidated by the knowledge and expertise of some of the forum members, and didn't feel that I had anything useful to contribute. So I continued to "Lurk".  (I feel a little un-clean being a Lurker and all.)

Now I will continue to "Lurk" for a while to see if the Forum gets back on track, otherwise I'm outta here.

Jumus

Sigma DP2
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rick decker MOD Forum Pro • Posts: 13,899
Wrong
4

I think you are wrong.  It is a great place for the dissemination of information regarding Sigma cameras, lenses and firmware/software.  It is a microcosm of human nature as are most of the other forums.  No worse, no better than the others.  You have more information/education/advice/explanations available  now than you did  years ago.

It is too bad you feel that way.  You would do better to ignore/avoid what disturbs you.

You don't know how everyone feels about this forum and you can't/shouldn't speak for them.

You nened to look in the mirror before you look out the window.

R

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner MOD Forum Pro • Posts: 19,555
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!

I understand what you are saying, but the forum is doing decently well these days.

The bad parts have gotten VERY bad indeed.  But ignore those and look at the interesting or informative parts, and there's actually a decent mix of those now at the top level.  I count a fair majority of the top-most threads as being "useful".

There's no question this board is hurting for moderators to come in and enforce forum rules (and indeed simple rules of decency).  But until that time comes, just block off threads from view when they start to go south, and enjoy (and contribute!) to fresh threads when they arise and present new information.

 Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list:Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG HSM Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sigma 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM +4 more
One River Regular Member • Posts: 341
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!
1

Forum is fine. It...we... simply need to ignore threads that are meant to stir things up. Simply not reply. It's not as if these threads are hard to identify!

motomanDK
motomanDK Contributing Member • Posts: 661
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!
1

One River wrote:

Forum is fine. It...we... simply need to ignore threads that are meant to stir things up. Simply not reply. It's not as if these threads are hard to identify!

I agree - i get a lot of great information from this forum.  I have 4 or 5 people on my ignore list and that did the trick for me.

And then we need to accept, that being different allways make you a target for bullying.....  and then just ignore the attacks.

-- hide signature --

/Henrik - Denmark
(SD14 and SD15 ... and about 5 kg glass)

 motomanDK's gear list:motomanDK's gear list
Sigma SD14 Sigma SD15 Sigma sd Quattro Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM +8 more
Oliver_B Contributing Member • Posts: 832
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!

Agreed. This forum continues to be a very good ressource and is full of positive, helpful and insightfull people. For some reason it gets thrown of balance easily, likely in part due to the "underdog" status of the products concerned – but then, nobody forces you to engage in such discussion or even take much notice of it. Of course it would be nicer if people were more reasonable but who are we to tell them – within some boundaries – how to behave.

Oh, my DP3 should arrive today. Have to go!

 Oliver_B's gear list:Oliver_B's gear list
Sigma DP1 Sigma DP3 Merrill
motomanDK
motomanDK Contributing Member • Posts: 661
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!

Oliver_B wrote:

Oh, my DP3 should arrive today. Have to go!

Lucky you! Happy shooting! 

-- hide signature --

/Henrik - Denmark
(SD14 and SD15 ... and about 5 kg glass)

 motomanDK's gear list:motomanDK's gear list
Sigma SD14 Sigma SD15 Sigma sd Quattro Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM +8 more
Wellington100 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,801
Life's a bitch

Jumus wrote:

I don't need to go into a detailed explanation about my statement, it is all too painfully obvious to all who visit this forum. By all I mean everyone. Senior down to junior members, Newbies, Lurkers, and yes, even trolls. What, in tarnation, has come over some, most, all of the posters?  Why all the sarcasm, back-biting, and all?

Just, CUT IT OUT! Let's get back to the business of cameras and digital photography. Otherwise, I swear, I will put a curse on all of you!

Let me repeat. CUT IT OUT. Let's get on with the business of the Forum...Sigma Camera Talk.

So, Here Goes...

In October 2009 I purchased a Sigma DP2 Camera.
Prior to my purchase I had spent numerous hours reading the posts in the Sigma Forum, and looking at the DP2 images posted and referenced. What a wealth of information. Thank you all for your posts.
I didn't become a member at that time because I really didn't have anything to offer the forum. I was new to digital cameras and digital photography and was, and still am, at the age of 71, on a learning curve.
My interest in photography started in the early 60's. I had a Mamiya Twin Lens reflex camera with a couple of lenses. I setup a darkroom and purchased as much "outdated" B&W roll film as I could afford. I went out and shot roll after roll of film, developed them and learned the craft to the point that I could see, from the negative, if I had composed and exposed the photograph correctly. I read a lot about photography and talked to other photographers. (I like Cartier-Bresson's work a lot.)

Long story short, I became interested in digital photography around 2003 or so. Got a couple of cameras took lots of images developed them with PC software and didn't like the IQ of my images.

My search for a decent camera led me to DPreview and eventually to the Sigma Forum. What a great place to get the skinny on cameras and techniques of digital image taking.  Those were the days.  Again, thank-you all very much for allowing me to "Lurk".  I must admit that I was somewhat intimidated by the knowledge and expertise of some of the forum members, and didn't feel that I had anything useful to contribute. So I continued to "Lurk".  (I feel a little un-clean being a Lurker and all.)

Now I will continue to "Lurk" for a while to see if the Forum gets back on track, otherwise I'm outta here.

Jumus

Just saying

-- hide signature --

Doctors are bad for your lifestyle.

Davethepom
Davethepom Regular Member • Posts: 379
Hope I'm not one of them Motoman?
6

I love this forum. I don't buy newspapers anymore, watch next to no telly & haven't been to the flicks in about three years!

Gimme the Sigma Forum, a bottle o' red & a "busy going nowhere" SPP churning away in the background and I'm as happy as Larry (oops, no pun intended Larry!!!)

I even manage to get out on the weekend to mend the Trumpy (m'bike), spill some oil & take a few pics of the changing face of urban Melbourne.

My Sigma gear is worth millions to me and this Forum helps me do this taking pictures thing a bit better than I did before partaking. Who'd have thought that a minim like me could correspond with professional photographers & not feel embarrassed, incompetent or inept whilst doing so.

It's what you make it...

Pom

D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 14,371
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!
2

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

I understand what you are saying, but the forum is doing decently well these days.

The bad parts have gotten VERY bad indeed.  But ignore those and look at the interesting or informative parts, and there's actually a decent mix of those now at the top level.  I count a fair majority of the top-most threads as being "useful".

There's no question this board is hurting for moderators to come in and enforce forum rules (and indeed simple rules of decency).  But until that time comes, just block off threads from view when they start to go south, and enjoy (and contribute!) to fresh threads when they arise and present new information.

I come here to look at the very good pictures that many of you post. I can't afford a Sigma camera right now.

Unpleasantness in forums can be avoided if you never post a sentence that describes the character of another member, and never reply to any post that insults you.

It isn't a major problem here.

Halldor Eiriksson Senior Member • Posts: 1,979
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!
1

Concentrate on the bright side of life.  Most people here are really helpful and this is the place to learn from others.  And even meet people and get to know them.

-- hide signature --
 Halldor Eiriksson's gear list:Halldor Eiriksson's gear list
Nikon D7200 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/4G ED VR Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM Art Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-140mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR
AdamT
AdamT Forum Pro • Posts: 58,440
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!
1

The Forum is just as good as it always was - a couple of the Old-timer posters have gone to the dogs but the rest are still there helpful as ever as are the "DP Generation Newbies" ..

-- hide signature --

** Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist **

 AdamT's gear list:AdamT's gear list
Canon PowerShot G1 X Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5
SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,939
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!

From the thread's title, I thought we'd have some new dog pictures...the more photos the better... and we've had some test cats lately.  Seriously, on the whole we have a good group of people posting, ranging from experienced Sigma/Foveon camera users to those making inquiries about them. I've read the forum since before buying the SD10 in 2004 and not much has changed in the human personality types involved.
Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

 SandyF's gear list:SandyF's gear list
Sigma DP2 Sigma DP1 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill +7 more
Rudi Senior Member • Posts: 1,198
Re: This Forum has gone to the dogs!

If you think some of the threads in this forum are disgusting why did you start another unnecessary discussion like the ones you address your criticisms to ?

Laurence Matson
Laurence Matson Forum Pro • Posts: 11,656
I beg to differ

And not just because of the dogs:

Eddie Chapman with some of his over 100 terriers. He pretty much single-handedly rescued the real Jack Russell Terrier and brought it into the 21st century. He is part of a line of three men going almost unbroken back the Jack Russell himself. My Raglan was gifted to me by Eddie. He was never one to mince words when it came to the efforts to destroy the real Jack Russell. "Get out of the ring and never come back if I am here."

Internet forums are amorphous. They change over time while remaining constant within the defined theme.

Along with a few others, I have been here from the first posting, when the forum emerged from the Open Forum. The earliest discussions had more to do with the technology, since there was no camera to trash. And they were as hard fought, as full of ignorance, and as ad hominem as anything you might find hard to take now. Worse, in fact. Little known to most, there were quite a few people from Foveon actively participating - contributing - and they tried to help others understand from behind their cubicle walls and anonymity. The doubters were led by Karl Guttag; and one of SteveG's over 30 persona usually cropped up with a Schweik-like claim of Foveon superiority.

Fast forward one decade, we have new players acting out many of the old parts. Trolls, wafflers, fans and foes, know-it-alls and know-nothings, bashers and pundits are fixed elements on the Internet stage. Without being disrespectful, this should not bother you. The ebb and flow has less to do with sea change these days and more to do with personalities. Reading between that nonsense - to which I gladly contribute on occasion - you will still find plenty of wild roses of wisdom in the hedges. Ask Ines.

Jumus wrote:

I don't need to go into a detailed explanation about my statement, it is all too painfully obvious to all who visit this forum. By all I mean everyone. Senior down to junior members, Newbies, Lurkers, and yes, even trolls. What, in tarnation, has come over some, most, all of the posters?  Why all the sarcasm, back-biting, and all?

Just, CUT IT OUT! Let's get back to the business of cameras and digital photography. Otherwise, I swear, I will put a curse on all of you!

Let me repeat. CUT IT OUT. Let's get on with the business of the Forum...Sigma Camera Talk.

So, Here Goes...

In October 2009 I purchased a Sigma DP2 Camera.
Prior to my purchase I had spent numerous hours reading the posts in the Sigma Forum, and looking at the DP2 images posted and referenced. What a wealth of information. Thank you all for your posts.
I didn't become a member at that time because I really didn't have anything to offer the forum. I was new to digital cameras and digital photography and was, and still am, at the age of 71, on a learning curve.
My interest in photography started in the early 60's. I had a Mamiya Twin Lens reflex camera with a couple of lenses. I setup a darkroom and purchased as much "outdated" B&W roll film as I could afford. I went out and shot roll after roll of film, developed them and learned the craft to the point that I could see, from the negative, if I had composed and exposed the photograph correctly. I read a lot about photography and talked to other photographers. (I like Cartier-Bresson's work a lot.)

Long story short, I became interested in digital photography around 2003 or so. Got a couple of cameras took lots of images developed them with PC software and didn't like the IQ of my images.

My search for a decent camera led me to DPreview and eventually to the Sigma Forum. What a great place to get the skinny on cameras and techniques of digital image taking.  Those were the days.  Again, thank-you all very much for allowing me to "Lurk".  I must admit that I was somewhat intimidated by the knowledge and expertise of some of the forum members, and didn't feel that I had anything useful to contribute. So I continued to "Lurk".  (I feel a little un-clean being a Lurker and all.)

Now I will continue to "Lurk" for a while to see if the Forum gets back on track, otherwise I'm outta here.

Jumus

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"The fact of being reported multiplies the apparent extent of any deplorable development by five- to tenfold" (or any figure the reader would care to supply).
Barbara Tuchman, A Distant Mirror
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

richard stone Senior Member • Posts: 1,903
Wrong
3

How is it wrong to call a troll a troll? What are people supposed to do, just patiently endure stupid and insulting posts from people who enjoy baiting and insulting others? There is a complaint button, but I do not see any reason to not point out that someone is a troll.

Now, it is easy enough for someone to say that he or she is not a troll, that he or she has a genuine (and, to be clear, camera-related...) issue, but in most cases it is quickly and perfectly obvious to the most casual observer that a troll post is exactly that.

And it is course reasonably obvious that the people posting such mean-spirited nonsense are not exactly the most endearing of people, and they may have actual issues in their own lives that lead them to make such annoying posts. At some level and at some point I may forgive them. But there is no reason to go all mushy and act as if it is okay for them to post rude nonsense.

And yet the amusing part is that some people, for reasons that are never well explained, and this despite the many words often used in explanation, feel compelled to actually defend the most patent of trolls: Trolls have a right to post too? Trolls are people too? What can this mean? That we should grow to love trolls? That somehow the line is a blurry one between trolls and others, so we might all be trolls ... That is just drivel.

This forum does need a more robust defense against trolls and such nonsense.

Or perhaps we should just create a special Forum "Just For trolls..." In that forum they could post the most galling and stupid comments about any camera brand that struck their fancy, and insult the various brands and each other with cheerful and reckless abandon. Oh no, wait, that would rob them of the veneer of legitimacy that they seek, and that would be so unfair.

Richard

-- hide signature --
diolus Regular Member • Posts: 439
Re: Wrong
4

You just proved him right.

 diolus's gear list:diolus's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4G ED VR +2 more
diolus Regular Member • Posts: 439
Re: Wrong
4

exhibit number two.

 diolus's gear list:diolus's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4G ED VR +2 more
D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 14,371
Re: Wrong
1

richard stone wrote:

How is it wrong to call a troll a troll? What are people supposed to do, just patiently endure stupid and insulting posts from people who enjoy baiting and insulting others? There is a complaint button, but I do not see any reason to not point out that someone is a troll.

There is a good reason not to answer a troll. It gives the troll an excuse to post again.

Yes, people are supposed to completely ignore trolls. It is the only way to deal with them.

One River Regular Member • Posts: 341
Re: Wrong
1

D Cox wrote:


Yes, people are supposed to completely ignore trolls. It is the only way to deal with them.

Bingo. A collective effort to be on the same page and ignore it is the only way. It will come at a cost, at first, because things will be posted about Sigma that people feel is unfair. But if we execute, that too will go away in short time. As of now, the reaction is spectacular. Forum members at each other like pit bulls for days and days in several threads. Some of the most effective trolling I've seen, to be honest...

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